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SonsofVulkan wrote:
Like I said, neither GK nor BA can outshoot IG at "LONG" range. 5 rifledreads at BS4 is good, but so is 3 vendettas with 3 TL lascan and 3 manticores who can spit out on average 2 S10 large blasts each and mantis are not affected by night fights. Not to mention 4-5 vet squads has a AC at BS4. Like seriously, if GK doesnt go first, they are pretty screwed. And alot of time, it depends on terrains and how we deploy, sometimes neither of us will have good LOS to shoot at more than 1-2 targets(after reserving vendettas). But that doesnt affect 3 manticores... And so far I was only talking about 1850 IG...

I just disagree here. I don't think you've ever played against a 5-6 dread GK list with 5-6 psycannon squads in rhinos. There's not much I can really say except try playing against them. Then you'll see what I mean.

Kirika is an experienced tournament guard player and even he is having problems with such a GK build. I've played both competitively. My point of view isn't just theoryhammer. Check out 2 of my battles against guards, one using the Grey Knights and another using Space Wolves.

Kirika wrote:
jy2
I like your wolf list. What makes you put the riflemen in your wolf list? Brookie at Conflict also had riflemen in his wolf list Avariel prefers wolf scouts + wolfguard for her elites.

Wow your lists look so similar to Avariel's her Crowe list looks pretty similar to yours but she doesn't run the vindicare and instead has a 4th purifier squad.

How is the Vindicare btw? Does he just die really quick? I was discussing it with targetawg and Avariel we were thinking vindicare would need to borrow a rhino to stay alive but then he would lose yet a turn of shooting to get in said rhino and is not worth it costing 185.

I been having this discussion with Avariel and targetawg for awhile now with moving to another army but fact is I been playing IG for 2 years and feel comfortable with it and put a lot of work into it. Rushing another army for Nova and not being so familiar I dunno. Plan was to roll out another army for 2012 season. Wolves or GKs but play IG in the meantime.

I use riflemans for 2 reasons: 1) as a gun platform and 2) to protect my fragile 5-man squads from the more assaulty armies. The trend continues on with my grey knights. I don't normally run wolf scouts, but I can see how useful they can be in NOVA-style competitions in which table quarters are involved.

Vindicare is alright. He has a niche in my army in that he is the most reliable guy to take out heavy armor. I normally infiltrate him into cover so that his 36" range can hit any heavy armor that needs to be taken down. He does draw a lot of fire, but that's good. That means I've got 4-5 dreads shooting uninterrupted and my rhinos are free to advance into psycannon range. How long he lives depends on how much ranged firepower my opponent has. He doesn't need a rhino. Put him in cover and he's got 3+ cover. Putting him in a rhino means he loses 1 turn of shooting. Honestly, I would prefer my opponent waste their ammo on him than on my more fragile transports.

You can't go wrong with either wolves or the grey knights. Both are very flexible and good codices. Take your time.