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Officially, no. But I like to think that it is, owing to the Chaos Gods, the Orc/ks and the Old Ones, along with some other stuff.

Which ruins all of WHFB for me, as it loses the apocalyptic feel, but that is a whole different topic.

the Chainsword IS the 40k one, it comes with a picture and everything, the Chaos gods ARE the same ones, as stated the fluff is IDENTICAL, you claim that GW has stated they are seperate universes, and have provided only conjecture and hearsay, while I have give hard evidence and references, these same references are GW produced Codex's and Army books, as well as black library productions, all of this fluff is post "retcon".

My point still stands.
Linked through the warp, seperate universes

And yet, the warp is not the same in both Universes. They are not connected. GW, once more, has retconned any connection the two had. Meaning your 'chainsword' is not evidence.
It is not conjecture or hearsay. It is fact. The universes are entirely separate.

and once again you have no proof, i do.

If GW publishes facts that link the universes through the codex's and army books, as well as black library, and some Rep says they are not linked, well, I know GW reps get it wrong somtimes, so I'd chalk it up to error.

Now if it was in a white dwarf, that came out today, I'd accept it.

Keep in mind that some 40k elements have been present in Fantasy even since after the retcon-- see the Dark Shadows campaign reward items for a good example of this. All of these items obviously represented 40k equipment (a flamer, a power fist, a power sword, a conversion field, power armor, an auspex, a lightning claw, and a force staff) and were described as "potent weapons forged by a race that once ruled the stars."

Formosa wrote:and once again you have no proof, i do.

If GW publishes facts that link the universes through the codex's and army books, as well as black library, and some Rep says they are not linked, well, I know GW reps get it wrong somtimes, so I'd chalk it up to error.

Now if it was in a white dwarf, that came out today, I'd accept it.

"I'm right, and the one thing that would make me wrong doesn't count, because I say it doesn't. I'll only accept I'm wrong if they publish a statement that specifically invalidates my argument, in the next issue of White Dwarf."

Fantastic argument, mate.

He's saying that the White Dwarf you are speaking of is an older outdated issue and that most of his sources are more recent than that and as GW has pretty much said new sources trump old ones.

You people can all agree to disagree however and choose to interpret the setting as you see fit as at least one BL author has said thats how the setting pretty much works.

Get over yourselves.

BrotherStynier wrote:He's saying that the White Dwarf you are speaking of is an older outdated issue and that most of his sources are more recent than that and as GW has pretty much said new sources trump old ones.

You people can all agree to disagree however and choose to interpret the setting as you see fit as at least one BL author has said thats how the setting pretty much works.

Get over yourselves.

yep, that is pretty much what i'm saying, not "I'm right, and the one thing that would make me wrong doesn't count, because I say it doesn't. I'll only accept I'm wrong if they publish a statement that specifically invalidates my argument, in the next issue of White Dwarf", which ironically is what Nerivant seems to be doing,

The point is army books and codex's as well as black library fluff that has come out in the last 1-5 years, this "policy" must be older as I cant find it in my stack of WD's, and if it is older, then its been invalidated by more recent fluff, conbined with, that the GW rep has most probably made a mistake.

I cant see GW announcing that the 2 settings are completely seperate, and then publishing fluff that directly contradicts itself.
Also didn't you say that it was retconned back in 2nd?

I wouldnt trust an employee with anything. How can you be sure he isnt mistaken or bulling, its happened before with redshirts and even managers and it will happen again

Your evidence seems to just be 'no, your wrong, GW says so.' If though it is just a grunt that told you


There is evidence in the fluff (eg that campaign in albion awhile ago had powerfists wtf) that their is a connection, before the recent books on Sigmars life, it was generally believed he was one of the missing primarchs.

The warp is the same, the gods are the same, the ancient fluff is the same (old ones created the world, guided the then young races) the daemons are the same.

It could be a lack of imagination on the part of GW but I doubt it

I AGREE WITH FORMOSA

GW themselves have said that the two worlds are no longer connected. Come up with theories if you want, but you're wrong, very wrong. But, there's no real point in arguing as I cannot find the source for this in writing. I had thought before now that it was simply common knowledge that they were officially unconnected as this is the first time I've seen people try and say otherwise, but apparently I was wrong about that.

There is many similarities between Fantasy and 40k, but to many differences, IMO. The biggest one being Slaanesh and his relationship with the Elves. One, Slaanesh exists, so it is after the Fall. Which means Slaanesh would be all over the Elves; they don't have Soul Stones. That leads be to believe the Elves of Fantasy are not the Eldar of 40k. Also Dwarfs, Ogres and Humans are all seperate races. Dwarfs and Ogres predating Humans in Fantasy by thousands of years. In 40k Dwarfs (Squats) and Ogres (Ogryns) are mutated Humans. So thet are not the same. And lets not forget about the Orcs (Orks). They are similiar as well, but there are to many differences to say they are the same. Goblins (Gretchin), in Fantasy are two completely different races coexisting, in 40k they are the just different subraces of the same race. The other real big difference is the Old Ones themselves, in Fantasy Chaos destroys them; in 40k it's the C'tans, Chaos had nothing to do with it. IMO, there is just to many differences for them to be the same.

ToBeWilly wrote:There is many similarities between Fantasy and 40k, but to many differences, IMO. The biggest one being Slaanesh and his relationship with the Elves. One, Slaanesh exists, so it is after the Fall. Which means Slaanesh would be all over the Elves; they don't have Soul Stones. That leads be to believe the Elves of Fantasy are not the Eldar of 40k. Also Dwarfs, Ogres and Humans are all seperate races. Dwarfs and Ogres predating Humans in Fantasy by thousands of years. In 40k Dwarfs (Squats) and Ogres (Ogryns) are mutated Humans. So thet are not the same. And lets not forget about the Orcs (Orks). They are similiar as well, but there are to many differences to say they are the same. Goblins (Gretchin), in Fantasy are two completely different races coexisting, in 40k they are the just different subraces of the same race. The other real big difference is the Old Ones themselves, in Fantasy Chaos destroys them; in 40k it's the C'tans, Chaos had nothing to do with it. IMO, there is just to many differences for them to be the same.

Ok I see what you mean here, but i think you have the wrong end of the stick.
were not saying its the same races that inhabit both settings, were saying both settings, are completely stand alone "realities", but connected through the warp, as to the the old ones, it was chaos in the warp that killed them (note:Not Chaos) releasing the enslavers, the C'tan weakened them.
In fantasy it was a "geat castastrophie" that shattered the polar gates (consistent with webway portals, and consistent with 40k fluff on what happens if deamons break into it. Ref: HH Colected visions) is also consistent with what happens to the old ones.
So its not just similar, its the same.

That's your opinion of it, your theory. The official stance is that they are completely separate.
I guess it's just easier to have them as different worlds rather than having to explain a lot of the obvious similarities. I even wrote my own connection between them, with The High Elves being Exodites and Sigmar being a Primarch, until I learned from others that GW has retconned them being in the same universe.

He's not saying they are the same universe, he is saying they are connected by the Warp which is in a sense its own universe as well.

Warhammer 40k Universe

The Warp

Warhammer Fantasy Universe

Each its own thing, since the Warp isn't in the Warhammer 40k universe per-say because it is its own dimension which happens to mirrior that one.

He is also saying that the White Dwarf where they say there is no connection what so ever is outdated being 10-15 years old or more since new stuff has been put into Army Books and BL content even GW events.

The older White Dwarf is simply invalidated, similar to how Old Codex Fluff is often invalidated when new ones come out.

Yeah, they were connected through the Warp, until GW officially retconned their connection, and maintain this stance. Care to give examples of this apparent connection, as in, conclusive proof, that are younger than after 2nd ed?

we have been, you have just been ignoring them, but ok i will recap.

All the liber chaotica books
The albion campaign
Codex deamons
Deamon army book
Codex necrons
warriors of chaos army book

Tzeench liber chaotica.
Magnus the red, spots the archivist that the sprit (cant rember his name) is taking for a stroll through the warp.

when a deamon primarch see's a fantasy character... well its a open and shut case, the warp is the connection

Liber Chaotica? Heh, no, as both fantasy and 40k have separate information that does not link together.
Albion Campaign? Don't see the connection at all, you'll have to explain.
Codex Daemons and Daemons of Chaos army books are not a connection in themselves as the characters are different in both.
Codex NECRONS? Explain.
Warriors of Chaos? Which edition was this? First? Before 2nd ed?
Spots the archivist? Who is this guy?

Currently, the connections are as vague as my references apparently are.

iproxtaco wrote:Liber Chaotica? Heh, no, as both fantasy and 40k have separate information that does not link together.
Albion Campaign? Don't see the connection at all, you'll have to explain.
Codex Daemons and Daemons of Chaos army books are not a connection in themselves as the characters are different in both.
Codex NECRONS? Explain.
Warriors of Chaos? Which edition was this? First? Before 2nd ed?
Spots the archivist? Who is this guy?

Currently, the connections are as vague as my references apparently are.

dude have you even read liber chaotica?
Abion: alot of the magic weapons were from 40k, a power weapon, power fist and conversion field.
A dark emmisary even uses a power fist in one of the WD stories.
Codex deamon have fluff relevent to the 40k universe and vice versa, however the gods and locations in the warp are identical, as well
as the named characters in both.
Codex necrons: The war in heaven though not directly referenced in fantasy, is aluded to in the fantasy rulebook, the polar gates falling directyly corelates
to the rupture of the webway by deamons in 40k.
Warriors of chaos: The rending blade matches the description of the Chainsword from liber chaotica, as i have said, the 40k Chainsword is IDENTICAL to the 40k one
The Archivist: the liber chaotica books are written from his perspective

I would encourage you to read these references and then come back and continue this discussion

Formosa wrote:
Abion: alot of the magic weapons were from 40k, a power weapon, power fist and conversion field.

Wait, it specifically states that weapons few through the Warp and ended up the Fantasy universe?

It really is a shame they're not canon in any connection. The Liber Chaotica directly references a handful of 40k things even with a handful of CSM pictures dotted about. Prime example Magnus, Primarch of the Thousand Sons, is depicted briefly as the champion of Tzeentch.

Nerivant wrote:

Formosa wrote:
Abion: alot of the magic weapons were from 40k, a power weapon, power fist and conversion field.

Wait, it specifically states that weapons few through the Warp and ended up the Fantasy universe?

it gives descriptions of NON-magical technological devices, these match 40k items

"It really is a shame they're not canon in any connection. The Liber Chaotica directly references a handful of 40kthings even with a handful of CSMpictures dotted about. Prime example Magnus, Primarch of the Thousand Sons, is depicted briefly as the champion of Tzeentch."

why would a fantasy character know who magnus the red was, we know from HIS description.
All black library fiction is canon, even the stuff that contradicts itself, ref horus heresy
liber chaotica is canon

Formosa wrote:
it gives descriptions of NON-magical technological devices, these match 40k items

Aaaaaand?

and what? if you read the space marine codex and it describes a Chainsword, shows you picture and gives a brief description.. are you telling me its not a Chainsword?

Formosa wrote:and what? if you read the space marine codex and it describes a Chainsword, shows you picture and gives a brief description.. are you telling me its not a Chainsword?

No, because the codex says it's a chainsword.

Does what you're referring to specifically mention a chainsword, or something like a "sword that growls and snarls?"

liber chaotica Specifically names it as a chainsword, the picture is a mutated looking chainsword, and its description matches the rending blade from warriors of chaos (army book). call a spade a spade

look i'm going to have to say, go find these books/white dwarfs, then read them, as it seems that everyone is arguing with no knowledge of them, i thought people just ignored the facts, but it just seems people genuinely dont know.

tomorrow I will get out my liber chaotica books (cept tzeench, cant find it) and post some quotes, i will then try to find each white dwarf from the albion campaign and finally quotes from the other sources, except the deamons books, its spelled out so clearly in them that im genuinely suprised it needs any more explanation.

Formosa wrote:post some quotes,

Please do. "I read it, and you guys need to track down these books, because I can't actually prove I'm right" is not a valid argument. I'm looking forward to what you find.

Formosa wrote:liber chaotica Specifically names it as a chainsword, the picture is a mutated looking chainsword, and its description matches the rending blade from warriors of chaos (army book). call a spade a spade

look i'm going to have to say, go find these books/white dwarfs, then read them, as it seems that everyone is arguing with no knowledge of them, i thought people just ignored the facts, but it just seems people genuinely dont know.

tomorrow I will get out my liber chaotica books (cept tzeench, cant find it) and post some quotes, i will then try to find each white dwarf from the albion campaign and finally quotes from the other sources, except the deamons books, its spelled out so clearly in them that im genuinely suprised it needs any more explanation.

Dude, you're really grasping at straws here.
They are not linked anymore. Period. You're being selective in your interpretation. Thematic similarities do not mean they are linked.

I really like the idea of them being linked, not like WHFB is a planet in 40K but instead 2 universes connected by a 3rd universe(the warp).

But, if the official word is that they are not linked any more, then alas. It is also possible that they cut the connection so they could retcon it into something really cool in the future. They have just been too busy writing the game to be able to play around in the fluff.

-cgmckenzie

From reading through the thread I think there are two pretty distinct interpretations of what we mean by "connected".

First is are they connected via fluff? Do they contain the same objects? The same Gods? Similar chronology? Do the events of one universe seem to affect the events of the other? If this is what we're looking for to consider the two universes connected, then clearly the universes are. The similarities far outweigh differences.

The other interpretation: GW said no they are not (somewhere in some book or some article...the posters supporting this argument have not been quite as specific..sorry if it makes you all look a little bad). Honestly, this interpretation is hard to argue against. So if we say that no they are not connected because GW said so (discounting fluff similarities and the like ) then no, they are not connected.

I was leaning towards the interpretation that they were not connected, but those who argued for this have failed to really come up with a coherent argument besides: GW said so, feth off. As such I find myself leaning towards the other interpretation. The best argument made for them being separated was by ToBeWilly. Can anyone organise an argument around his points? I'd love to hear them.

Also it seems as though the people supporting the notion that the universes are separate (again, with the exception of ToBeWilly) seem to be trying to poke holes in Formosa's theory more than they are trying to make mature arguments for their own...

Just observations. I'd love to see more constructive debate! Interesting topic.

iproxtaco wrote:Yeah, they were connected through the Warp, until GW officially retconned their connection, and maintain this stance. Care to give examples of this apparent connection, as in, conclusive proof, that are younger than after 2nd ed?

I wanna see where, as in which publication or GW website blog spot they say specifically they Warp is different in both universes. The WHFB Planet no longer being a world in the Warhammer 40k universe is not the same thing as the Warp being different for both. Everything I have heard points to the Warp being the same, this coming from GW people I have spoken to and owning the current Warriors of Chaos Army book where they talk about the Rending Sword, the description of which seems like a superstitious person from an age like WHFB describing a Chainsword with Magic.

Until then you can believe all you want that they arent connected in anyway possible even through the Warp. And I will continue to believe that they are separate universes connected through the warp, where sometimes things slip through, and you know what?

Neither of us will be wrong, at least unless you believe that having your own beliefs about a constantly shifting cannon where the authors say you can believe what you want is wrong. In which case you're just being an ass.