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At one point, WH and 40k WERE linked. That is indisputable. Thats ALSO part of the reason we see so many thematic similarities (Chaos, the warp, etc). Also, these similarities help provide a framework in which to develop the setting and storylines. At some point, as the franchises matured, they drifted further and further apart. GW decided, in a rare fit of genius, to declare that the WH universe and the 40k universe are entirely separate. Aside from the aforementioned plot similarities, THERE IS NO CONNECTION.
Really, there is no reason for 40k and fantasy to be linked other than through Bad Fluff Fanwank.

ToBeWilly wrote:There is many similarities between Fantasy and 40k, but to many differences, IMO. The biggest one being Slaanesh and his relationship with the Elves. One, Slaanesh exists, so it is after the Fall. Which means Slaanesh would be all over the Elves; they don't have Soul Stones. That leads be to believe the Elves of Fantasy are not the Eldar of 40k. Also Dwarfs, Ogres and Humans are all seperate races. Dwarfs and Ogres predating Humans in Fantasy by thousands of years. In 40k Dwarfs (Squats) and Ogres (Ogryns) are mutated Humans. So thet are not the same. And lets not forget about the Orcs (Orks). They are similiar as well, but there are to many differences to say they are the same. Goblins (Gretchin), in Fantasy are two completely different races coexisting, in 40k they are the just different subraces of the same race. The other real big difference is the Old Ones themselves, in Fantasy Chaos destroys them; in 40k it's the C'tans, Chaos had nothing to do with it. IMO, there is just to many differences for them to be the same.

It is my understanding of the Setting that in Warhammer Fantasy the Old Ones weren't killed off as a race they simply abandoned the planet due to the fact that Chaos had come threw the Northern Gate, which then exploded, and those left on the world died. Also I believe the Lizardmen Army book states that they aren't sure if they all died out or just left. In Warhammer 40k the Old Ones are killed off as a result of their using the newer races in a war against the C'tan which led to creatures in the warp becoming more hostile and the Enslavers came and wiped out everything.


The race thing points towards them being separate universes which I agree with, I how ever think that the Warp connects both universes, not a complete connection, more like a very loose one where every once in a while something, like a chainsword or the items from the Albion Campaign will slip through.


@DEUS VULT

You haven't sold me on there being absolutely no connection when they obviously have intended for certain items in RECENT Armybooks to make you think they came from the WH40k Universe and the fact that one of them is a GIFT FROM THE CHAOS GODS and happens to be made to sound like it is a Chainsword seems to suggest that the Warp is a connection.

You still have yet to show anywhere that they continue to state there is no connection. All I see in fact is a couple of posters who are acting like they are children with their fingers stuffed in their ears going "NO NO NO I CANT HEAR YOU YOU ARE WRONG."

We, I at least, am not saying they are completely connected, only slightly and through the warp.

A sword could "growl" because its a chainsword, or it could growl because its a predatory demon and hungry for blood.
It has "teeth" because its a chainsword, or it has teeth, because predators have teeth, and jagged blades = OMG brutal

Author's intent is irrelevant when studying literature and, by extension, fluff. It is how english classes can talk about deep symbolism and such when the author just thought it sounded good or wrote very little. Hemmingway is a prime example of extrapolating insane amounts from what is given. Whether or not he actually wrote the stories as deep as he did doesn't matter, the only part that matters is what actually comes out in the literature/fluff.

So, unless they specify in the stories some clear way that they are not connected, then it is open for interpretation.

And yes, I did go back into my high school english notes just for this post. Surprised I still had those, really. I need to clean up...

-cgmckenzie

Really, why on earth would either realm have ANYTHING to do with the other? WHY?

Same reason people get all giddy when they see Captain America referenced in Iron Man 2: it's cool and fun to think that they might interact.

If they are connected, it is an extremely small amount of influence coming and going to either so it doesn't really matter. If they are not, we lose that little bit of fun from the fluff but nothing really changes. Do you want to be the one responsible for killing fun, Deus Vult? Is that what you want!?

-cgmckenzie

Maybe you should ask GW about that, be sure to bring up the Lightning Claws and Power Swords awarded in the Albion Campaign as items for your heroes.

In the mean time, I'll go through the Army books I have to see if they actually have any evidence supporting them not having the same Warp.

Really it seems like you don't even have an argument other than "One time GW said they dont have any connections. I totally heard that on the internet(or from a GW Staff member).

cgmckenzie wrote:Same reason people get all giddy when they see Captain America referenced in Iron Man 2: it's cool and fun to think that they might interact.

If they are connected, it is an extremely small amount of influence coming and going to either so it doesn't really matter. If they are not, we lose that little bit of fun from the fluff but nothing really changes. Do you want to be the one responsible for killing fun, Deus Vult? Is that what you want!?

-cgmckenzie

ZERE SHALL BE NO FUN! NEIN!!! NEIN!!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrotherStynier wrote:Maybe you should ask GW about that, be sure to bring up the Lightning Claws and Power Swords awarded in the Albion Campaign as items for your heroes.

In the mean time, I'll go through the Army books I have to see if they actually have any evidence supporting them not having the same Warp.

Really it seems like you don't even have an argument other than "One time GW said they dont have any connections. I totally heard that on the internet(or from a GW Staff member).

eh, I know I read it somewhere legit. I do recognize that until i find said quote my ass is hanging in the breeze. Regardless, Its still a slowed idea.
Besides, WHY would they be connected. What possible purpose would it serve? Its not interesting or creative, its just lazy daydreaming.

Ashryu wrote:Really interesting concept, wish they had expanded it instead of just letting it go. Though I have often wondered how normal men with melee weapons are able to fight the same daemons that space marines with technologically advanced weapons fight. Also would be funny if the imperium pulled exterminatus on the fantasy world.

Agree with exterminatus on fantasy world 110%
Ive heard way to many rumors that one of the reasons 40k is so expensive is to pay for the failings of fantasy and lord of the rings.

NIEN!! lol

Liber Chaotica Khorne.
Chainsword
I saw this weapon first in the keeping of Red hand Kolchis but have since seen swords of a similar type, in the
possession of at least 3 other warriors and read descriptions of more (such as the snarling hand of Fsak koomriver)
Kolchis a lone Khonate champion aquired it deep in the eastern skull lands whist carving through,
a tribe of dark green orcs. IT APPEARS AS A NORMAL SWORD except, instead of a razor edge,
A LINE OF JAGGED TEETH RUN DOWN THE SIDE. At the wielders command, THE TEETH RACE DOWN THE BLADE,
ripping apart armour and flesh as easily as parchment. THE BEAST HILT HOWLS WHILE IT DOES AND WHINES WHEN LEFT UNSATED.
Unsurprisingly, i have found this type of ARCANE TECHNOLOGY, solely in the of khorate champions

Stick you fingures in your ears and "la la" that!

DEUS VULT wrote:
Really, there is no reason for 40k and fantasy to be linked other than through Bad Fluff Fanwank.

Liber Chaotica is not bad fanwank.

The universes aren't one and the same.

The connection, if any, is the warp. The guy in Liber Chaotica uses magicks to peer into the Realm of Chaos, not only does he learn stuff from his land but also characters and events from 40k, like the Emperors Children, the Black Crusades Magnus. It's like looking through a telescope.

I thought that it used to be that the Warhammer world was one lost in a warp storm or something? So you had the Old space faring Slann, tech weapons and stuff like that. But yeah, now they are entirely different universes but the only connection possibly is the warp.

Formosa wrote:NIEN!! lol

Liber Chaotica Khorne.
Chainsword
I saw this weapon first in the keeping of Red hand Kolchis but have since seen swords of a similar type, in the
possession of at least 3 other warriors and read descriptions of more (such as the snarling hand of Fsak koomriver)
Kolchis a lone Khonate champion aquired it deep in the eastern skull lands whist carving through,
a tribe of dark green orcs. IT APPEARS AS A NORMAL SWORD except, instead of a razor edge,
A LINE OF JAGGED TEETH RUN DOWN THE SIDE. At the wielders command, THE TEETH RACE DOWN THE BLADE,
ripping apart armour and flesh as easily as parchment. THE BEAST HILT HOWLS WHILE IT DOES AND WHINES WHEN LEFT UNSATED.
Unsurprisingly, i have found this type of ARCANE TECHNOLOGY, solely in the of khorate champions

Stick you fingures in your ears and "la la" that!

Okay, except that a chainsword doesn't look like a normal sword.

I could see the argument that the chainsword looks like a normal sword when you really only have a chance to study it while it is hacking through your friends.

Other than that, it looks like a sword like chainsaw.

-cgmckenzie

Do any of you people have a source which states a connection? Just now it's simply objects and characters which are similar due to individual interpretation, but no where does it state that they are the same, ergo. you can't prove your ridiculous theories.

cgmckenzie wrote:I could see the argument that the chainsword looks like a normal sword when you really only have a chance to study it while it is hacking through your friends.

Other than that, it looks like a sword like chainsaw.

-cgmckenzie

But it's clearly some sort of exotic daemon weapon.

Not a chainsaw that flew in through another dimension.

I think if both setting were connected through the Warp, Fantasy would of been completely destroyed by Chaos. Both setting have the same characters from Codex: Deamons and Army Book: Deamons. If, lets say Skulltaker (thats the only Deamons character I can think of off the top of my head), can be in both places and knows they both exist, what is stopping him from bringing a Soul Grinder or a Defiler or Obliterators? Fantasy IMHO could not exist with those possibilities. Therefore they most be seperate.

To somebody who has never seen a chainsaw or anything like it at all, it would be a safe bet to assume it was demonic. How they chronicle it will reflect how they see the world and where this fits into it, drawing connections to things they have seen before and describing it the best they can.

And if the daemons fought in 40k-verse are the same as the ones fighting in WHFB, weapons and such are bound to trickle through from one verse to another. It isn't like they brought a crate of chainswords and started giving them out to dwarves.

-cgmckenzie

ToBeWilly wrote:I think if both setting were connected through the Warp, Fantasy would of been completely destroyed by Chaos. Both setting have the same characters from Codex: Deamons and Army Book: Deamons. If, lets say Skulltaker (thats the only Deamons character I can think of off the top of my head), can be in both places and knows they both exist, what is stopping him from bringing a Soul Grinder or a Defiler or Obliterators? Fantasy IMHO could not exist with those possibilities. Therefore they most be seperate.

Good point. Soul Grinder, stated as not available in the fantasy setting for obvious reasons.

Srsly, folks.

Just.... srsly.

I don't know what picture that was, as it doesn't load, but the URL gave me a clue. Was that an attempt to be witty? Remove yourself, from life preferably, from this discussion and dakka at the least, if indeed it is the picture I think it is.

U mad bro?

You've spent 3 pages now hashing over the same argument on a topic that, ultimately, doesn't matter at all within the context of the game.

Even when they were, officially, in the same galaxy, the Warhammer Fantasy world was locked away in an unending warp-storm that ensured it was impossible for it to be found by the Imperium, or any other faction in the Warhammer 40K game.

Since those days, GW has backed off on that stance, and established them as separate games/storylines. If someone still wants to have them in the same galaxy, or linked to each other via the Warp... it doesn't change anything, and it doesn't matter.

What... is someone going to play their Halfling Blood Bowl team against a pack of Black Templar Terminators with Dreadnought support? Are the Griffon Knights of Brettonia going to do battle with a Deathwatch Kill-Team? Are the Wood Elves going to wage war against a company of Grey Knights?

Of course not.

It simply... doesn't matter. Some people might want to throw in some fun fluff from 40k in a Fantasy setting, or have some Fantasy shout-outs in a 40k game... but in neither case does this matter within the hobby of Warhammer gaming.

I am actually, because despite this argument not having an effect on the game universe, neither does anything we discuss on this forum, GW decides all of it, we interpret and discuss. We can argue if we want to, I dislike people who come along and make some witty remark and try to sweep the argument away by saying "it just doesn't matter", like they're some how superior and are possessed of a higher understanding because they raised themselves above the argument, then make an ultimately irrelevant post. Move along, this argument has about as much affect on you as it does on the game world, none apparently.

wow guys.. we need some chill pills in here.

The soul grinder doesn't appear in fantasy for the same reason Chaos hasn't pwned 40k, they dont want to.

Chainsword doesn't look like a sword??? mad.

The Chainsword case is air tight, im suprised there are still arguments on it, it has a picture, it has fluff that could easily be put into 40k and no one would bat an eyelid.. and yet, ignored.

I'm giving reference after reference, and all im getting is "no!! cause!!", I have even asked you guys to read the references, and i still get "no! cause!!", one of you has got to give me a better argument than some outdated reference by some GW rep.

We don't need to, it's common knowledge. You also haven't actually given any evidence, I've already stated why. That's your explanation for Soulgrinders? Ha, that's funny, now whose just saying "no! cause!!".

iproxtaco wrote:You also haven't actually given any evidence,

Liber Chaotica would disagree

I think you're missing the point, or at least it seems that way.

We're not saying that the fantasy universe and the 40k universe are the same. But the description of the events and characters in Liber Chaotica makes a connection between the two.

How else would you explain a character from the Fantasy Realm knowing of the First Armageddon war, the Black Crusades, the fall of the Eldar and Magnus the Red amongst other 40K related things?

The fact of the matter is they aren't the same, anymore at least.

That is, frankly, a massive hole in GW policy that they aren't the same. Whilst I've seen in may, many places, on this website and others, and been told by an employee that they are in no way connected according to GW "official policy", it does seem that GW has actually made Liber Chaotica point out a very obvious connection between the two universes. I mean, it's difficult to control every single piece of fluff so it fits with everything else, this particular goal should be easy. Perhaps they are in completely different realities, with the Warp being some multi-layer convoluted thing that connects them and others, and this archivist guy just saw through the layers some how.

iproxtaco wrote:Perhaps they are in completely different realities, with the Warp being some multi-layer convoluted thing that connects them and others, and this archivist guy just saw through the layers some how.

Which is what we have been saying, or I have at least

Perhaps my use of the word 'universe' was incorrect. I was using it in the same reference as you would the Marvel universe

That is a much better way to look at it, from my own perspective as well.

In the warhammer fantasy roleplay 2nd edition you can get a chainsword! It was puplished by black industries!
Sigmars twintailed comet is surely a spaceship and he suddenly disapear! Come on! Its the same universe! If GW whants to end that fact they should make a whole new setting for one of the games.

Lasher wrote:In the warhammer fantasy roleplay 2nd edition you can get a chainsword! It was puplished by black industries!
Sigmars twintailed comet is surely a spaceship and he suddenly disapear! Come on! Its the same universe! If GW whants to end that fact they should make a whole new setting for one of the games.

That's been brought up.
Your own speculation.
And they don't "want to", they have as of around 2nd edition.