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Kanluwen wrote:

Grimtuff wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
Wolf Guard exclusively as Terminators is 'new'.

No, it's not.

Yes, it is.

The Space Wolf minidex had Wolf Guard with the option for Terminator Armor.
They were not the Space Wolf Terminator Squads.

Ummmmmm? Have you seen the current SW dex? Just in case you have not, turn to page 86 of it. You'll see ALL Wolf Guard begin the game in Power Armour, and have the option for Terminator armour. JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER INCARNATION OF THEM.

You. Are. Wrong.

Omegus wrote: You could always field squads of Wolf Guard in terminator armor. You're playing with semantics.

"Playing with semantics" is saying that Wolf Guard in Terminator Armor is new.

That's not actually what I said, if you'd actually read my post. My statement was that "Wolf Guard exclusively as Terminators are new".

Which, by my measure, it is new. They are effectively the "Space Wolf Terminator Squad"--even though they still have the 'option' for Terminator armor.

Nothing is genuinely new in the Wolves codex except them riding mutated aspirants into battle.

Or Lone Wolves.
Or Thunderwolves (which really aren't new as they've been mentioned in fluff before).
Or the two 'unit upgrade' characters.

There's plenty of new stuff, the problem is you're focusing on clearly 'new units' rather than looking at what has been revamped and made to be 'Space Wolf Exclusives'.

Kanluwen wrote:
"Playing with semantics" is saying that Wolf Guard in Terminator Armor is new.

That's not actually what I said, if you'd actually read my post. My statement was that "Wolf Guard exclusively as Terminators are new".

Which, by my measure, it is new. They are effectively the "Space Wolf Terminator Squad"--even though they still have the 'option' for Terminator armor.

What on earth are you babbling about?

WG have always been fieldable as 100% Terminators. I should know, i've been playing SW since 2nd edition.

>>Lion'el jonson
>>Lion blade
>>Lion helm
>>the Lion
>>Lions everywhere
>>yfw matt ward gets his hands on this

http://www.freewebs.com/kylecoffman/disillusioned.jpg

Grimtuff wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Grimtuff wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
Wolf Guard exclusively as Terminators is 'new'.

No, it's not.

Yes, it is.

The Space Wolf minidex had Wolf Guard with the option for Terminator Armor.
They were not the Space Wolf Terminator Squads.

Ummmmmm? Have you seen the current SW dex? Just in case you have not, turn to page 86 of it. You'll see ALL Wolf Guard begin the game in Power Armour, and have the option for Terminator armour. JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER INCARNATION OF THEM.

You. Are. Wrong.

You.Are.Correct.

I forgot to finish my thought.
However, I'm looking for my minidex so that I can do a better comparison. I'm remembering Space Wolves having 'standard' Terminator Squads but that might be a mistaken thought.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grimtuff wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
"Playing with semantics" is saying that Wolf Guard in Terminator Armor is new.

That's not actually what I said, if you'd actually read my post. My statement was that "Wolf Guard exclusively as Terminators are new".

Which, by my measure, it is new. They are effectively the "Space Wolf Terminator Squad"--even though they still have the 'option' for Terminator armor.

What on earth are you babbling about?

WG have always been fieldable as 100% Terminators. I should know, i've been playing SW since 2nd edition.

Read my below post.

Wolf Guard, while 100% fieldable as Terminators, also have not been the only option for Terminators "since 2nd edition".

But having played SW for that long you should know that right?

I think SM need to be cut to two codeci. Roll DA into C:SM and BA, SW, BT, and GK into another book. Maybe three books, but they really really need to be condensed, for the good of the game.

I've posted it before but we can easily retain the 4 book system while tripling or even quadrupling the unique Chapters and archetypes in them.

purplefood wrote:The seperate codeci are supposed to represent different organisational structures. Only SW and BT actually fall into this catagory.
If you had an overall Marine codex it would have to be pretty big...

It worked for Chaos 3.5 pretty well, actually...

Vaktathi wrote:

Droma wrote:Let's not forget the fact that power armour books make a lot of money for GW. That more than anything is the biggest reason they'll remain a separate codex.

They also cannibalize a lot of sales however and end up reducing resources/interest in other armies, and is a source of endless consumer angst. There may be enough positives to consider it.

Not...really? If the SM codices get condensed down into one book, I doubt all that many people are going to start up a 'nid army. The majority of 40K players don't post on these or any other forums. The majority also play Space Marines. They don't seem all that angsty as consumers. GW sells to the demand that exists, like most businesses, and that demand is clearly quite capable of supporting multiple SM books.

Space Marines are the college football of 40K. They're the big sellers. Lacrosse may not like it that football gets all the attention and all the scholarship money, but the school knows who's paying the bills.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

vonjankmon wrote:Droma touched on the biggest issue as to why the DA won't be rolled up into a Codex SM.

Up until the last 2-3 years when the SW and BA got their new codexes the best selling SM Chapter specific models were DA and that was true for a very very long time. DA are a big cash cow to GW so you'll see them again without a doubt.

Considering how great a deal the DA upgrade sprue was, that doesn't mean that people are into DA proper, only that people like great deals.

Only problem is that DA was the number one selling marine army literally YEARS before the DA accessory sprue existed. I'm not talking about the DA being the best selling for a couple years, we're talking like 6-10. I know for sure it was at least 6 but I don't know how long after that they remained there but the accessory sprue did come out after that so they may have remained the top selling marines.

motorhead1945 wrote:

purplefood wrote:The seperate codeci are supposed to represent different organisational structures. Only SW and BT actually fall into this catagory.
If you had an overall Marine codex it would have to be pretty big...

It worked for Chaos 3.5 pretty well, actually...

I didn't say it was bad, just big.
If it was done i would like to see it done in the manner that Just Dave did his CSM Fandex.

vonjankmon wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

vonjankmon wrote:Droma touched on the biggest issue as to why the DA won't be rolled up into a Codex SM.

Up until the last 2-3 years when the SW and BA got their new codexes the best selling SM Chapter specific models were DA and that was true for a very very long time. DA are a big cash cow to GW so you'll see them again without a doubt.

Considering how great a deal the DA upgrade sprue was, that doesn't mean that people are into DA proper, only that people like great deals.

Only problem is that DA was the number one selling marine army literally YEARS before the DA accessory sprue existed. I'm not talking about the DA being the best selling for a couple years, we're talking like 6-10. I know for sure it was at least 6 but I don't know how long after that they remained there but the accessory sprue did come out after that so they may have remained the top selling marines.

How can a specific Chapter be said to sell the best if they're indistinguishable from generic marines?

For a long while DA battle boxes, Deathwing Terminators, DA special characters, etc (all the specifically DA models) were the best selling specific marine models.

So they sold more than the BT specific models, BA, SW, etc. It's actually interesting to see how certain models selling really well got rolled into what is now considered "normal" rules. Raider Crusader is a good example. For a while it was BT only, but it sold SO well that GW began including it in every marine codex after to make more cash off it. Ever wondered why the DA had so many special models for so long prior to the influx in the last 2-3 years of the SW and BA since they recieved new codexes? They sold really well.

Seaward wrote:
Not...really? If the SM codices get condensed down into one book, I doubt all that many people are going to start up a 'nid army.

I'm not saying they'll go out and buy one right then, however if other armies get updated more than once every 5-12 years, with plastic kits for all or most of their units, or at least actually have kits for all of their units, they might be more popular, rather than Marines which many players already treat as one book that gets an expansion/update every 6-12 months.

The majority of 40K players don't post on these or any other forums. The majority also play Space Marines. They don't seem all that angsty as consumers. GW sells to the demand that exists, like most businesses, and that demand is clearly quite capable of supporting multiple SM books.

Space Marines are the college football of 40K. They're the big sellers. Lacrosse may not like it that football gets all the attention and all the scholarship money, but the school knows who's paying the bills.

If one army gets updates and variants at least every year and has (relatively) cheap kits for all its units, of course it's going to be more popular and sell more than the armies that get updates every decade or half decade and are more expensive with incomplete model lines. Not hard to see.

With marine books there's also a desire from some to see each one as a completely different faction in terms of sales, which they just aren't, they very often cannibalize each other. The biggest SM player at my current store plays every single marine army, but doesn't actually have models for 6 different marine armies, 80% of his models are just ported from list to list. And he isn't the only one by any means, this is very common.


I personally know more than one person who has dropped 40k because of the slowness of GW in addressing faction books and the lavish attention given to SM's. It's not just on internet forums that this sort of thing exists.

vonjankmon wrote:For a long while DA battle boxes, Deathwing Terminators, DA special characters, etc (all the specifically DA models) were the best selling specific marine models.

So they sold more than the BT specific models, BA, SW, etc. It's actually interesting to see how certain models selling really well got rolled into what is now considered "normal" rules. Raider Crusader is a good example. For a while it was BT only, but it sold SO well that GW began including it in every marine codex after to make more cash off it. Ever wondered why the DA had so many special models for so long prior to the influx in the last 2-3 years of the SW and BA since they recieved new codexes? They sold really well.

The DA special characters(Asmodai, Ezekiel, Azrael, Naaman) all had very little iconography on them identifying them as Dark Angels.

Naaman, Ezekiel, and Asmodai were regularly fielded in standard Marine armies to add a bit of 'oomph' and uniqueness. The same thing went with the robed models, simply because the robed metals had basically no iconography on them unlike the current plastic ones do.

The "DA battleboxes"(assuming you're referring to the Dark Angels Ravenwing Battleforce and the short-lived Dark Angels Battleforce) were also pretty dang good deals during their release. The Ravenwing Battleforce is still a good deal for anyone who wants bikes(2 squads of them, and an attack bike along with a Land Speeder are in the RW battleforce).
$41.25 x2(cost of Ravenwing biker squads)+$25 for the attack bike, and $30 for the Land Speeder.
That's $137.50 under the recently adjusted prices. The box was just last month moved from its $90 price point to $105.

You do the math on that. Even if you're not going to field a Ravenwing force, there's a lot in there you can sell or trade off.

People that really lobby for Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Black Templars and Grey Knights to be folded into Codex: Space Marines speak without any actual grasp of what they're saying. Go through and count out the number of units that you would have to drop in order to facilitate that sort of change, the amount of characterful rules that you would have to strip away and model kits that you would invalidate.

On the other hand, pushing the current incarnation of Dark Angels into Codex Space Marines would be easy and pretty painless. This is why the approach to Dark Angels that GW has taken lately will change. Most likely, Dark Angels will receive a proper cadre of rules and units to make them stand out from Codex Space Marines when their Codex is re-written.

SkaerKrow wrote:People that really lobby for Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Black Templars and Grey Knights to be folded into Codex: Space Marines speak without any actual grasp of what they're saying. Go through and count out the number of units that you would have to drop

Few, if any? You'd end up with a huge SC section, but you'd be able to combine like 80%+ of the units since they're either damn near identical (Furioso vs Ironclad) or literally identical (a Rhino is a Rhino) and you could still keep the truly unique ones (e.g. Death Company) and just add in a restriction via sublisting or HQ types (note: doesn't need to be SC's).

in order to facilitate that sort of change, the amount of characterful rules that you would have to strip away and model kits that you would invalidate.

Depends on what you see as "characterful". Stuff like the SW's Wolf Guard Sergeant mechanic is one thing that, on paper looks "characterful", but really only matters in army construction and has 0 effect on how the army plays, and thus really doesn't do anything except give SW's humongous discounts on Sergeants.

Vaktathi wrote: Few, if any? You'd end up with a huge SC section, but you'd be able to combine like 80%+ of the units since they're either damn near identical (Furioso vs Ironclad) or literally identical (a Rhino is a Rhino) and you could still keep the truly unique ones (e.g. Death Company) and just add in a restriction via sublisting or HQ types (note: doesn't need to be SC's).

Depends on what you see as "characterful". Stuff like the SW's Wolf Guard Sergeant mechanic is one thing that, on paper looks "characterful", but really only matters in army construction and has 0 effect on how the army plays, and thus really doesn't do anything except give SW's humongous discounts on Sergeants.

Lets see your "space marine codex" ( and if you can make it worse than M.W. did, if your not an UM ). Just for once, i'd like to see these
claims be proven on the "proposed rules forum". Just once. But I'd bet against you.

Since youre ignoring the amount of units ( models ), this idea of yours is "condensing to 0 ".
Space marines provide a basical model that may become a lot of things, with only a few added symbols, redone sculpts, more heads, etc.
What could challenge the easy access to a multitude of kits like a army clad in standardized power-armor can?
Marines provide GW with a source of interchangable models. Thus keep the investment in "new kits" controllable.
Why should a company give up such a ressource?

I am sure most of us see the issue of SC's. Characters who may have 1 or 2 USR's. Codex space marines and the missing IH show just nicely how much SC's a codex may have and if it was unpossible to put less UM in and allow each first founding legion at least one SC
of their own, it does not need the emperors tarot to foresee what the DA would get....

IMO Just Dave's CSM Fandex is a good example of how things could be done...
Have the Captains/Wolf Lord/Marshals etc buy wargear of some sort that unlocks certain units.
E.g. An SM Captain buys the Wolf Lord upgrade for x points. With this upgrade he recieves boosts to certain Stats and gains the ability to unlock GH (Or tactical marines have acute senses since they really should have the CCW+Bolt pistol and Boltgun as standard anyway) and BC in the troop section. He also unlocks Wolf Scouts and Lone Wolves in the Elite section.

1hadhq wrote:
Lets see your "space marine codex" ( and if you can make it worse than M.W. did, if your not an UM ). Just for once, i'd like to see these
claims be proven on the "proposed rules forum". Just once. But I'd bet against you.

If I had the time to do so I would. However, for a brief synposis, you'd pick which subvariant marines you're going to play at army construction, and each unit entry says which chapters it's available to, and how the unit is changed by the choice of chapter. E.G. Predators are available to everyone, but BA predators automatically gain fast and cost +X points more and have extra turret/sponson options. Tac marines are available to everyone, if taken for SW's, they gain A, B, and C special rules and wargear for +X points, whereas if taken for BT's they can include a mix of Scouts and Tac marines, with various options.


lets be honest, if the far more varied Traitor Legions of Chaos can and always have shared one book, surely the Loyalists can too without too much difficulty.

Since youre ignoring the amount of units ( models ), this idea of yours is "condensing to 0 ".

?

Space marines provide a basical model that may become a lot of things, with only a few added symbols, redone sculpts, more heads, etc.

And often end up simply being treated as all the same thing instead of actually different things.

What could challenge the easy access to a multitude of kits like a army clad in standardized power-armor can?

other armies can generate lots of kits just as easily, look at IG, how many different basic guardsmen models are out there?

Marines provide GW with a source of interchangable models. Thus keep the investment in "new kits" controllable.
Why should a company give up such a ressource?

Because again, they often cannibalize each other in terms of sales since, as you don't need to buy new kits to swap between armies.

I am sure most of us see the issue of SC's. Characters who may have 1 or 2 USR's. Codex space marines and the missing IH show just nicely how much SC's a codex may have and if it was unpossible to put less UM in and allow each first founding legion at least one SC
of their own, it does not need the emperors tarot to foresee what the DA would get....

My apologies, but I'm not entirely certain what you're trying to say here.

Almarine wrote:>>Lion'el jonson
>>Lion blade
>>Lion helm
>>the Lion
>>Lions everywhere
>>yfw matt ward gets his hands on this

http://www.freewebs.com/kylecoffman/disillusioned.jpg

QFT, I legitamately loled

purplefood wrote:IMO Just Dave's CSM Fandex is a good example of how things could be done...
Have the Captains/Wolf Lord/Marshals etc buy wargear of some sort that unlocks certain units.
E.g. An SM Captain buys the Wolf Lord upgrade for x points. With this upgrade he recieves boosts to certain Stats and gains the ability to unlock GH (Or tactical marines have acute senses since they really should have the CCW+Bolt pistol and Boltgun as standard anyway) and BC in the troop section. He also unlocks Wolf Scouts and Lone Wolves in the Elite section.

But Just Dave hasn't the upper echelons of GW at his neck, just us dakkanauts to critize his work.
So youre volunteering to give us all an example ?
Maybe a general layout of neccessary pages, amount of units and characters, wargear, background etc...?

Vaktathi wrote: If I had the time to do so I would.

Unavailable it seems..
Gathered the data at another of these threads, and rest assured without cuts it becomes a tome like the "real" codex astartes.
Surely, things like dedicated transports are similar. Until codex specific vehicle upgrades come in.
It would be a complete design change from 5th. Remembering the threads how the 5th ed SM dex had to be read ( unit entry, and/or ),
a readable and understandable codex isn't easy to achieve. Fans are forgiving to authors of fandices ( dexes? ), but "the company" itself?

Vaktathi wrote:
However, for a brief synposis, you'd pick which subvariant marines you're going to play at army construction, and each unit entry says which chapters it's available to, and how the unit is changed by the choice of chapter. E.G. Predators are available to everyone, but BA predators automatically gain fast and cost +X points more and have extra turret/sponson options. Tac marines are available to everyone, if taken for SW's, they gain A, B, and C special rules and wargear for +X points, whereas if taken for BT's they can include a mix of Scouts and Tac marines, with various options.

The chance has been wasted when IA was around. Now, codices are selfcontaining ( except USR ).
BA turbo? BT vows? SW saga? SM chapter tactics? Explain that all in every units entry? Cover it all with the limited range of USR's?

Vaktathi wrote:
lets be honest, if the far more varied Traitor Legions of Chaos can and always have shared one book, surely the Loyalists can too without too much difficulty.

Legions no longer exist. They didn't survive GW's retaliation from the EoT campaign....
Those following 5th ed fluff know who is the man ( of chaos. )
Traitor legions get no fluff ( except beeing eaten by nids...). Renegades do. The time of the old ones is possibly over.
Otoh, condensing the loyalists could harm the chances on legion/cult specific codices... You know, it worked for these and the others had always one dex so why change it .....

Vaktathi wrote:
other armies can generate lots of kits just as easily, look at IG, how many different basic guardsmen models are out there?

2. cadians and catachans. Until youre saying lets go FW, can't be worse or more expansive than fine-cast.
IG has lots of different uniforms. Millions of worlds to recrut from. Even the best effort of the munitorum won't standardize them like
the PA/TDA etc already is.
Minimum would be 3 kits per style ( command, basic infantry, heavy weapons ), plus all the missing vehicles....

Vaktathi wrote: they often cannibalize each other in terms of sales since, as you don't need to buy new kits to swap between armies.

Actual trend disagrees. SW, BA, GK, etc reduce the model count for options. And keep the price high.
Thunderwolves, stormravens, dreadedknights, etc aren't usable in every list.
Plus counts as may allow for greenskinned SM or palefaced necrons....

Vaktathi wrote: I'm not entirely certain what you're trying to say here.

ahemmm ...was trying to say:
codex SM = lots of UM.( 11+ ) and a few non UM. ( 5 )
Any roll in would be done by GW.
DA would share the fate of the IH.

Definately. Doesn't even make sense that they got a dex in the first place.

im2randomghgh wrote:Definately. Doesn't even make sense that they got a dex in the first place.

Unlike the Tau?

Vaktathi wrote: If I had the time to do so I would. However, for a brief synposis, you'd pick which subvariant marines you're going to play at army construction, and each unit entry says which chapters it's available to, and how the unit is changed by the choice of chapter. E.G. Predators are available to everyone, but BA predators automatically gain fast and cost +X points more and have extra turret/sponson options. Tac marines are available to everyone, if taken for SW's, they gain A, B, and C special rules and wargear for +X points, whereas if taken for BT's they can include a mix of Scouts and Tac marines, with various options.

And why would this suddenly lead to less time being spent on developing marine rules? All it'd do would be either make Marine players pay for stuff they'll never use or destroy the gameplay of some of the variant chapters, probably both. You've still got the same amount of rules requiring design and playtesting, you'd still need the time to fix fluff for every represented army etc. You'd end up with a 200+ pages hard-cover book forcing Marine players to pay for armies they don't want to play.

We might as well roll Orks and Eldar together, call it the Codex: Servants of the Old Ones and have your HQ selections unlock the rest of the army, with Eldar and Ork units being mutually exclusive. That way we'd be able to cut another Codex, giving more time for others! Add in DE in the 'dex and it's even better! If we then merge WH and DH with IG we'd have reduced the army count to 8! If we then fold Chaos Marines into C:SM and give them back their daemons, we're down to 6! Then GW could totally update everything each edition, because it's not as if there's still the same amount of rules or anything!

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:Definately. Doesn't even make sense that they got a dex in the first place.

Unlike the Tau?

Yes unlike the Tau. Dark Angels are Space Marines. There are 1000 of them. They use regular units=Space Marines codex.

Tau have next to no similarities with other races (fluff and crunch) and have the hyper-kick-ass XV8 suits. And railguns=better than SM.

Also Tau, unlike Spess Mehreens, actually require a strategy to win=the whole point of wargaming. Tau and DE (both of which I play) are the only armies I feel that GW made with tactics in mind.

im2randomghgh wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:Definately. Doesn't even make sense that they got a dex in the first place.

Unlike the Tau?

Yes unlike the Tau. Dark Angels are Space Marines. There are 1000 of them. They use regular units=Space Marines codex.

Tau have next to no similarities with other races (fluff and crunch) and have the hyper-kick-ass XV8 suits. And railguns=better than SM.

Also Tau, unlike Spess Mehreens, actually require a strategy to win=the whole point of wargaming. Tau and DE (both of which I play) are the only armies I feel that GW made with tactics in mind.

Please, more ad hominem attacks, I enjoy being taunted. The point I was trying to make, which you apparently missed, was that GW pulled the Tau out of their behinds during third edition, thus the DA, being older, have just as much reason to have a Codex as the Tau who are, after all, just as insignificant as the Dark Angels in the grand scheme of things. As for why I think it's a bad idea to merge the marine books, see my above post.

1. Wasn't an attack on you, was an attack on DA.

2. Merging them together IS a good idea. They have a ridiculous amount codex for space marines when they only need 3: Codex Space Marines, Codex Chaos Space Marines, and Codex Space Wolves (since their differences are about 10x bigger than any other seperate-codex marine book are).

This is tying up GW writers from updating older codex (See: Necrons, Tau) that are REALLY out-dated , as in 5+ years old.

At this rate, there are likely going to be 4ed Tau armies in 6ed.

im2randomghgh wrote:1. Wasn't an attack on you, was an attack on DA.

2. Merging them together IS a good idea. They have a ridiculous amount codex for space marines when they only need 3: Codex Space Marines, Codex Chaos Space Marines, and Codex Space Wolves (since their differences are about 10x bigger than any other seperate-codex marine book are).

This is tying up GW writers from updating older codex (See: Necrons, Tau) that are REALLY out-dated , as in 5+ years old.

At this rate, there are likely going to be 4ed Tau armies in 6ed.

1: I play marines. Your comment was aimed at marines in general. Not to mention hyperbolic to the point of lying.

2: While I'm going to sound incredibly biased, Templars are way more out there than the Puppies. As for the fallacy that merging marine books would save time while not reducing the "soul" of the army, you end up with either a bastardised version of the army (kinda like 4th ed Chaos), which is bad, or you keep the same level of special rules, options, wargear etc. as before and end up taking just as long, forcing Marine players to pay for an extra 5 Chapters in the process, which is also bad. As for the updates of older books, I think we can both agree that it'd be smart of GW to give the remaining armies who are in need an errata like the BT/DA one. That way armies wouldn't end up behind quite as badly as some have while allowing GW to take their time making a solid Codex for every army.

HQ:
Space Marine Commander
-May become a captain/librarian/chaplain for +XX points
-May become a dreadnaught for +XX additional points.
--If a dreadnaught, you may take dreadnaughts as troops.

Special Character 1 - you may elect to make a unit of veterans scoring.
Special Character 2 - you may elect to make a unit of veterans disband into seperate units of equal size (min size 1).
Special Character 3 - any dreadnaughts you take that are considered troops gain additional armor and additional weapon skill.



Elites:
Veteran Squad
-If your army contains a librarian, your veterans become grey knights and may choose a lesser power for +XX points.
-If your army contains a chaplain, your veteran squad grants FNP to all units within 12".
-If your army is lead by a HQ in terminator armor, your veterans get terminator armor for free.


Troops:
Tactical Space Marine XX points (Grey Hunter, Tacticals, etc covered)
-The whole unit can be upgraded to termiantor armor for +xx points (deathwing covered) or...
-The entire unit may be given jump packs for +xx points (blood angels covered).

Scouts
-for every unit of tactical marines you may choose a unit of scouts that do not take up a FOC slot. These scouts are attached to the tactical units (Black Templar Covered).

Bikers (Ravenwing, Space Wolves, White Scars covered).

You get the idea... and that took only a couple minutes of effort and I've effectively merged every codex into one, didn't invalidate anything because players can choose to make an army based off fiction or designed to win at their leisure.

If you honestly feel you can think of a unit that can't be fit into the model like the above, post it and I'm sure someone can figure a way. And if they can't, it should be a sign that the unit likely shouldn't exist in the first place (hello knights, priests, cavalry).

I'll keep saying that there's no point in it until someone adresses the point that it won't cut down on time without cutting down on quality.