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Maybe you should just let him read it instead of stoving his head in with it.

Besides, a couple of old metal Killa-Kanz in a sock is much more dangerous.

lol at the idea of "BRB thumping" - "These are the rules!! hear them and obey! dont like it? *THUMP* .... "

could also work with codex slapping too...

thats the accepted method of dealing with TFGs.

either a rule book to the groin or your choice of a old Venerable Dred, Deff Dred, Chaos Dred, or 2-3 Killa Kans in socks to the head.

The debate on special attacks is wholly uneccessary; the answer in which you seek is on page 42.

When fighting with 2 Weapons: you always use the special weapon, or choose one special weapon to use when you are equipped with more than one.

Don't have my rulebook on me but I believe there is a passage in the first half of the page that states all attacks must be made with any special weapons(i.e. when the model in question does not have 2 single-handed CCws)

2+ save against all force weapon attacks? Thats gonna really screw over my GK's, if I ever get to play a Deamon player. Do all Khorne deamons get that? I hope its a really expensive upgrade.

Anyways, love the thread title.

Not all khorne daemons get it.

Phiasco II wrote:2+ save against all force weapon attacks? Thats gonna really screw over my GK's, if I ever get to play a Deamon player. Do all Khorne deamons get that? I hope its a really expensive upgrade.

Anyways, love the thread title.

Be nice, you're already rerolling to hit them, and have the extra effect. Initiative 6 anybody?

Der Blaue Wolf wrote:

Phiasco II wrote:2+ save against all force weapon attacks? Thats gonna really screw over my GK's, if I ever get to play a Deamon player. Do all Khorne deamons get that? I hope its a really expensive upgrade.

Anyways, love the thread title.

Be nice, you're already rerolling to hit them, and have the extra effect. Initiative 6 anybody?

Only flesh hounds and HQ can get collars of Khorne. Flesh hounds are not that dangerous to MEQ, but will hopelessly tarpit many GK units.

Some units like purifiers have psycannon models with 2 base attacks and no force weapon.

The rules isn't there to screw GK, it was as someone previously stated to stop people from turning off power weapons on their turn only to reactivate the power weapons on their opponents turn. It was a heavily abused tactic used to ensure enemy units would only take the bad break tests on their opponents turn.

Phiasco II wrote:2+ save against all force weapon attacks? Thats gonna really screw over my GK's, if I ever get to play a Deamon player. Do all Khorne deamons get that? I hope its a really expensive upgrade.

It's a Daemonic Gift and thus can be turned off with Excommunication.

Do things like Chainswords that count as Close Combat Weapons count as special weapons towards selecting one of your special weapons to attack with?

Phiasco II wrote:2+ save against all force weapon attacks? Thats gonna really screw over my GK's, if I ever get to play a Deamon player. Do all Khorne deamons get that? I hope its a really expensive upgrade.

Anyways, love the thread title.

only certain units.


Dark Excommunication turns it off.


not only that, but it also strips Bloodletters of their Power weapons(as they are deamonic gifts)

WarOne wrote:Do things like Chainswords that count as Close Combat Weapons count as special weapons towards selecting one of your special weapons to attack with?

No, because they're not special weapons. They're bog standard CCWs. The 5th editions rules are pretty straight forward on this. Unlike 4th, you can no longer out the kid gloves on and mince around with pulled punches if it's your benefit to stretch out a combat. Fights always go all out.

Kom Kel points out that pg 42 seems to answers the question nicely. If a model is equipped with weapons the model uses up to two of those weapons.




The discussion about pg 35 tho is important too, it is often misinterpretted.

Pg 35 tells us that all engaged models will "use any special close combat attack they have". Note that it says attack, singular. This is because special attacks are rare in 40k, there are only a very few models/ units over the years that have had them...and those models have had one special attack beyond their regular cc attacks.

Using a special weapon in cc does not make all attacks from that model "special" attacks. The same as using a melta weapon in cc does not make those cc attacks have the melta special rule.




Sliggoth

terranarc wrote:What a great image. A grey knight throws his halberd to the side before jumping into a brawl with demons. Just out of amusement I'd let the GK player do that.

Paladin/terminator with banner.... let the face-punching commence!

I can see the fluffy headline now:
"Robute Guillman punches Khorne in the balls!!!"

cyberscape7 wrote:I can see the fluffy headline now:
"Robute Guillman punches Khorne in the balls!!!"

'Gauntlets of Ultramar will never be clean again' claims Guilliman

-cgmckenzie

2++, does that mean 2+ invoulnerable save?

Yes. It is not a GW thing, but rather "internet-shorthand".

Sliggoth wrote:Kom Kel points out that pg 42 seems to answers the question nicely. If a model is equipped with weapons the model uses up to two of those weapons.




The discussion about pg 35 tho is important too, it is often misinterpretted.

Pg 35 tells us that all engaged models will "use any special close combat attack they have". Note that it says attack, singular. This is because special attacks are rare in 40k, there are only a very few models/ units over the years that have had them...and those models have had one special attack beyond their regular cc attacks.

Using a special weapon in cc does not make all attacks from that model "special" attacks. The same as using a melta weapon in cc does not make those cc attacks have the melta special rule.




Sliggoth

Surely not! I'm not too sure about this, but what you're saying is that a Veteran Sergeant w/ power fist will make 1 normal cc attack (I4 S4) and 1 "special" attack at I1 S8?

I'm pretty sure under Close Combat Weapons (can't remember page number) it says that EVERY attack uses the special attack's penalties/bonuses. In this case, both the VS's attacks will use the power fist characteristics.

Yeah, I'm a little unclear on just what Sliggoth was trying to say. All attacks are made with the same weapon.

insaniak wrote:Yeah, I'm a little unclear on just what Sliggoth was trying to say. All attacks are made with the same weapon.

Special attacks as in Servo-Arm, Nest of vipers, or Talassarian Tempest Blade ...

Talassarian Tempest Blade: This is a power weapon. If Sicarius wishes, he can attempt a single 'coup de grace' attack in lieu of his normal close combat attacks. If the coup de grace hits, it is resolved at str6 and causes instant death, regardless of the wounded models toughness.

... which is a good example since his normal attacks with a power weapon are replaced with a single special attack (without the words 'If he wishes' he would be forced to always make this attack)

And a terrible example for the purpose of establishing only a few things as 'special attacks you must always use' because the coup de grace is an attack he can choose to use or not.

Corrode wrote:And a terrible example for the purpose of establishing only a few things as 'special attacks you must always use' because the coup de grace is an attack he can choose to use or not.

? really without the key add phrase, 'If he wishes' you would default to the BGB and he would have to use that attack. Everything works fine, they even include the required rule change so he can choose.

somerandomdude wrote:Read the rules for Power Weapons, provided here:

Models wounded in close combat by the attacks of a model armed with a power weapon are not allowed armour saves.

It doesn't matter if you choose to "use" the power weapon or not; your model is still armed with it, so no saves are allowed.

Since we're talking about Grey Knights with Force Weapons, and Force Weapons use the power weapon rules, and Grey Knights don't have two special close combat weapons, they always ignore armor saves.

So by this reasoning, could my gk just chuck his nemisis force weapon 20 ft away into a ditch to be lost forever and then punch someone? He's no longer armed with it..

Punching someone "in real life" is not illegal in many places.

loota boy wrote:

somerandomdude wrote:Read the rules for Power Weapons, provided here:

Models wounded in close combat by the attacks of a model armed with a power weapon are not allowed armour saves.

It doesn't matter if you choose to "use" the power weapon or not; your model is still armed with it, so no saves are allowed.

Since we're talking about Grey Knights with Force Weapons, and Force Weapons use the power weapon rules, and Grey Knights don't have two special close combat weapons, they always ignore armor saves.

So by this reasoning, could my gk just chuck his nemisis force weapon 20 ft away into a ditch to be lost forever and then punch someone? He's no longer armed with it..

No. Because the rules don't give permission for our models to disarm themselves.

Again, as has been repeatedly pointed out, this rule is present for game balance. In previous editions using your cool special weapons was optional, and players would deliberately choose to turn off their PWs/fists in their own turn to minimize the chance of their opponent breaking or being wiped out with the opponent's turn coming up, to prevent their opponent getting to shoot their nasty assault unit. Then they'd switch the PWs back on in their opponent's turn to try to wipe out/break the unit, so said nasty assault unit could then move and assault again in the owner's subsequent turn.

The interaction of the rules just happens to hurt Grey Knights in this VERY LIMITED circumstance when they happen to come up against one of the VERY FEW units which have Collars of Khorne.

Tri wrote:

insaniak wrote:Yeah, I'm a little unclear on just what Sliggoth was trying to say. All attacks are made with the same weapon.

Special attacks as in Servo-Arm, Nest of vipers, or Talassarian Tempest Blade ...

Talassarian Tempest Blade: This is a power weapon. If Sicarius wishes, he can attempt a single 'coup de grace' attack in lieu of his normal close combat attacks. If the coup de grace hits, it is resolved at str6 and causes instant death, regardless of the wounded models toughness.

... which is a good example since his normal attacks with a power weapon are replaced with a single special attack (without the words 'If he wishes' he would be forced to always make this attack)

No. Power weapon attacks are also special attacks. Sicarius can use either his special attack with a power weapon or his special coupe de grace attack. He cannot make a non-power-weapon attack at all.

We don't punch in my FLGS, dice throwing is the preferred method, and let me tell you, some people are deadly accurate with those little suckers.

Sam__theRelentless wrote:

Tri wrote:

insaniak wrote:Yeah, I'm a little unclear on just what Sliggoth was trying to say. All attacks are made with the same weapon.

Special attacks as in Servo-Arm, Nest of vipers, or Talassarian Tempest Blade ...

Talassarian Tempest Blade: This is a power weapon. If Sicarius wishes, he can attempt a single 'coup de grace' attack in lieu of his normal close combat attacks. If the coup de grace hits, it is resolved at str6 and causes instant death, regardless of the wounded models toughness.

... which is a good example since his normal attacks with a power weapon are replaced with a single special attack (without the words 'If he wishes' he would be forced to always make this attack)

No. Power weapon attacks are also special attacks. Sicarius can use either his special attack with a power weapon or his special coupe de grace attack. He cannot make a non-power-weapon attack at all.

No, Attacks with a power weapon are normal attacks with a Special Weapon.

Stuff like the "Talassarian Tempest Blade" and "Whirlwind of gore (Grom Gabriel Seth)" have a rule where they can use a special attack, which replace the normal attack sequence.

It also says though that if you have two weapons that are special, you cannot use both in close combat. You must chose one. Well if you state that your model has brass knuckles, and paint them on, then in choosing which weapon to use you could just punch the demon. Yay? Nay?