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themocaw wrote:

Balance wrote:Why'd they stop making tentacle pink? it looks like a good color for those doing rat tails and such...

It's also the best color for edge-highlighting purple.

I don't have the link handy (But I copied the article to my iPod Touch via Evernote) but Dakka Dakka's article comparing various paint brands shows that pretty muche very other vendor (Vallejo, Reaper, P3) makes a near-identical color at least.

They can be hit or miss with their female figures.

Mostly miss, like the East German Ladies Shot-put Dreadlord:


But the occasional hit:



It's also worth noting that Lelith's boobs aren't that big, as Jes can sculpt a female form very well and knows elf lasses don't have giant melons of spikey evil.

Why all the hate on boobs? The bigger the better (to a point).

1.) I don't find their current releases to be as out-of-proportion, breastwise, as they formerly were. Leileth looks like a B cup, at best, which is about right for a woman who has been very athletic her whole life, she looks like a gymmast.

2.) In general, though, I do agree with you. Cleavage on the sensual Dark Eldar is acceptable, but on an imperial guardswoman wearing body armor, you wouldn't expect to see any. And by "see any", I mean female guardswomen, amirite?

3.) On the GWS list of things I don't like, even when poorly proportioned (i.e. D-cups for all) I can forgive since they also exaggerate proportions on men, too. Show me a skinny guardsman, or a Space Marine less then 10 feet, all with giant Arnold-like physiques.

4.) The general representation of women as portrayed by GWS is shameful.

Heroic scale boobs? +1

No complaining here :3

I don't mind the bewbs. It's the dearth of decent female Imperial Guards(wo)men that bugs me.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:


It's also worth noting that Lelith's boobs aren't that big, as Jes can sculpt a female form very well and knows elf lasses don't have giant melons of spikey evil.

Must...resist...sigging

Also no-one has talked about the maneaters boobs
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440075a&prodId=prod1040016

now those are oversized!

or this ones boobs!
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440072a&prodId=prod1160127

thenoobbomb wrote:What do you think about how GWS models their female minis?
All except SoB in power armor have, well, big bewbs, IMHO. (wyches for instance)

What do you think about it..

?
I thought in our society thats whats optimum for a female?
just like for male, its height + muscles?

I certainly never heard complaints about how big GW male muscles are?

LunaHound wrote:

thenoobbomb wrote:What do you think about how GWS models their female minis?
All except SoB in power armor have, well, big bewbs, IMHO. (wyches for instance)

What do you think about it..

?
I thought in our society thats whats optimum for a female?
just like for male, its height + muscles?

I certainly never heard complaints about how big GW male muscles are?

Until space marine heads become the size of raisins on their massive fifteen foot bodies.

Know your audience, even know it has passed beyond stereotype to the point of caricature. Under all that 'purge the heretic/enslave the galaxy/nomnomnom/WAAAAAGH' is a lil gamer nerd looking for gold and busty beauties with +3 Giant Melons of Spikey Evil, if only the pretend kind.

While there are there are more, ahem, down-to-earth minatures out there, even in the GW ranges, the quickest way to get a person to notice a 28mm is female is to use the most obvious visual characteristic. It isn't just miniatures or gaming or entertainment. The quickest way to visually identify a female image or associate something with traditional female characteristic is with +3 Giant Melons of Hypnotizing Doods. This has been pretty much been going on since somebody started drawing with a half-burnt stick. We be creatures of the flesh after all.

All things you can accuse GW of, THIS is just silly.
In addition, Lelith Hesperax is the best female heroic scale sculpt I currently know.

WarOne wrote:

LunaHound wrote:

thenoobbomb wrote:What do you think about how GWS models their female minis?
All except SoB in power armor have, well, big bewbs, IMHO. (wyches for instance)

What do you think about it..

?
I thought in our society thats whats optimum for a female?
just like for male, its height + muscles?

I certainly never heard complaints about how big GW male muscles are?

Until space marine heads become the size of raisins on their massive fifteen foot bodies.

My point exactly, according to how GW portrays SM and Catachans. the female sculpt's boobies can go a few cups larger and it would still be according to ratio.
I think its just silly , almost like people complain because OMG BOOBIES IM SO SCARED!

kronk wrote:Their boobs aren't big enough. We need more Linsey Dawn McKenzie style models.

If they truly wanted to make them ridiculous, they could use Miss Hannah Minx as a concept...

Boldred wrote:I remember tentacle pink. Funny that the guy still had some.

I know someone(a former Outrider) who bought 1-2 cases direct from them when we were told it was being discontinued because it was the main color for his Emperor's Children.

the majority of the busts they sculpt (including wyches and guardians) aren't proportioned correctly unless the women are wearing 1960's pulp sci-fi Barbarella cones under their armor - everything is pushed 'outward' toward the arms while retaining a pyramid shape which is incorrect for the fit of clothing they are wearing

This thread is hilarious because it's purpose seems to be to gather people that want to lament GW's focus on chest size, and instead instead of noticing the obvious anatomical errors everyone is just talking about how big the chests are. They can be big and still look right, but they don't, and it's not because the busts are large.

kronk wrote:Their boobs aren't big enough. We need more Linsey Dawn McKenzie style models.

Wonder how many people looked her up/have her as a wallpaper now.

They're gonna have bigger breasts than they should, it's part of heroic scale. The problems I have with Sisters power armor is taht it doesnt' fit their theme, not that they're too well endowed

filbert wrote:Probably because most Games Workshop writers, designers, sculptors and artists are largely heterosexual males producing books, rules, miniatures and artwork for largely heterosexual male teens and young men.

You can say what you like about GW, but they certainly know their target audience!

rofl

Great, instead of misogyny we have misandry...

If I see that picture of an Ork Cheerleader I'm going to flip a bitch.

But anyway, I think GW's sculpts are on the smaller/realistic side of proportions. The only one I can think of that is expcetionally busty is the Damsel on horseback.

Platuan4th wrote:

Boldred wrote:I remember tentacle pink. Funny that the guy still had some.

I know someone(a former Outrider) who bought 1-2 cases direct from them when we were told it was being discontinued because it was the main color for his Emperor's Children.

My local Toyworld still had some in stock until recently. I purchased the last 3 for my partner's Slaanesh daemons.

However, you can re-create it simply by mixing bone, white and warlock or liche purple together... its not science, but it passes.

Goddard wrote:If I see that picture of an Ork Cheerleader I'm going to flip a bitch.

Que?

AvatarForm wrote:

Goddard wrote:If I see that picture of an Ork Cheerleader I'm going to flip a bitch.

Que?

HAI GAIZ!



Oh Goddard. Why did you have to mention her?

when i got onto this thread I thought Lol Whut?
Then I started reading through i was like oh okay.
But then i read the top thing which Reads...
Gamesworkshop and their Strange View of Women... You can only blame the dice for so long.........
Which i think gw will say. or someone else.

Seriously. This unrealistic armour and idealized human form is frankly disappointing.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the SoB. Yes, it is a bit silly to have large breasts molded on power armour, but the SoB line is nothing if not silly. I mean, space-nuns with bolters driving a tank that shoots missiles out of a pipe-organ? If there was even a single element of the SoB line that wasn't silly the whole line would probably collapse into some kind of quantum paradox. And as I've said before, I've got no problem with boobs on a mini. They're only inappropriate when their presentation runs contrary to the rest of the line's aesthetic.

[overthink]
Actually, GW generally seems to do pretty well in this regard. GW's approach to women is immature of course, but compared to many other miniature companies GW is remarkably non-exploitative. GW's problem is more like a pre-adolescent boy's problem with girls than any kind of sex obsession. GW seems to be aware that there are women out there, and maybe they're beginning to think the ladies are oddly compelling but they aren't sure why, and they try to keep it a secret so that none of their pals find out and make fun of them for liking girls. So there are a few token ladies here and there in their products, but they're usually either confined to characters that fit a fantasy archetype (maidens, sorceresses), units of all girls neatly segregated from the boys (DE witch elves, Eldar howling banshees, SoB), or occasional women mixed into an army known for their androgynous aesthetic (Eldar guardians, DE wyches). They even have a big old "No Girlz aLloweD!" sign on their best club house, the space marine line. But then again, if there were female space marines we'd probably be subjected to God-awful fan-fiction about Dante hooking up with a callidus assassin or Marneus Calgar going on the pull. So maybe it's better there aren't.

Like MeanGreenStompa said, they're very hit/miss in their sculpts, possibly because GW sculptors are aware that women exist but try not to look at them very often. Kind of like how whoever sculpted minotaurs was clearly aware of cows as a concept, but I'm guessing has never actually seen one. But as annoying as it is to see GW be so inconsistent, I much prefer their approach to minis than a line of nothing but improbable chainmail bikinis. Like I said earlier, if miniature want to sculpt their ladies with T&A that's fine, but it needs to be consistent with their line. So DE witches are ridiculously dressed, but every other dark elf is ridiculously dressed as well. And there are female DE spear(wo)men with lots of covering, so there is at least a sense that there is a reason DE witches strip down to their metal undies and braid fish hooks into their hair.

Contrast this with say, Wargames Factory's Amazons which are the sculpting equivalent of shooting yourself in the foot. Amazons are famous as the roughest, toughest women from mythology, and WGF turned them into a bunch of inept-looking cheerleaders. I'll take GW's almost innocent pre-teen fear of women in miniature to other companies' exploitative teenage horndog approach.

A while back, several famous woman-gamers had a panel discussion talking about the state of female characters in gaming (sorry, I don't remember the event, just that Kathleen Devere was on the panel.) And the thing that I kept seeing with that discussion is that men tend to be more uncomfortable with overly-sexified female characters than many women are. Which makes sense, because overly-sexified characters are a way of marketing to men, and it implies a quite insulting notion of what the marketing department thinks is sufficient to get men's money. Women on the other hand (at least the women on the panel) don't tend to care if female characters are over-sexified as long as the characters are cool. The SoB are silly, but you could imagine someone thinking they're cool. I have trouble imagining anyone who thinks the WGF Amazons represent cool women. So yeah, GW could do better, but judging by many of their competitors, they could do a lot worse.
[/overthink]

Balance wrote:
On the other hand, male human RPG characters tend to fall into a handful of steretypes as well: The 'conan steroidal fighter', the 'knight big warrior', the 'sneaky slender ranger/thief' and the 'old wizard.' There's more stereotypes, but not man, really. Then again, RPG characters tend to be idealized a bit in general, so it's not a huge deal: I don't really want to play an overweight, average hieght guy with poor vision, so i don't mind my mini being in better shape than I am.

Not an exact response, but here's Megan Rosalarian's argument as
to why sexualization and stereotyping of the female figure in comic
books isn't the same as the sexualization and stereotyping of the male
figure in comic books:

http://rosalarian.tumblr.com/post/2325861377/dressed-to-kill

She even does up an example of how a man would be represented if
he were posed and attributed in a similar fashion to his female
counterparts:



Her argument isn't that idealizations are wrong, but that sexualized
idealizations of superheroes is degrading, impractical, and a turn-off,
and these idealizations are geared toward a male audience who
want costumes that feature D-cups.

kronk wrote:Their boobs aren't big enough. We need more Linsey Dawn McKenzie style models.

quoted for truth.........

MikeMcSomething wrote:This thread is hilarious because it's purpose seems to be to gather people that want to lament GW's focus on chest size, and instead instead of noticing the obvious anatomical errors everyone is just talking about how big the chests are.

Both previous to, and subsequent to, your posts, a great deal of posters pointed out that GWS are poor at proportions in general.

JOHIRA wrote: GW's problem is more like a pre-adolescent boy's problem with girls than any kind of sex obsession. GW seems to be aware that there are women out there, and maybe they're beginning to think the ladies are oddly compelling but they aren't sure why, and they try to keep it a secret so that none of their pals find out and make fun of them for liking girls.

This is hitting the nail on the head. The fact you don't see any female Guardswomen is for the reasons above, and the fact that this is how GWS views it's target audience - young boys who still find girls to be icky - makes me shameful of playing this game as a grown man. It's a little embarrassing.

On the other hand, if you look at how virtually every single "female space marine" thread goes down, perhaps they have accurately gauged the maturity of their audience. That makes me a sad panda.

Monster Rain wrote:

AvatarForm wrote:

Goddard wrote:If I see that picture of an Ork Cheerleader I'm going to flip a bitch.

Que?

HAI GAIZ!



Oh Goddard. Why did you have to mention her?

My query was highlighted in bold...

To what does "flip a bitch" refer?