Games Workshop and their strange view of women..

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**cyrax777**

Melissia wrote:They're gonna have bigger breasts than they should, it's part of heroic scale. The problems I have with Sisters power armor is taht it doesnt' fit their theme, not that they're too well endowed

Corset armor and skull bra's.

**thenoobbomb**

lol lets do that.

My point is, the NORMAL wyches have to big wunz. How are they supposed to be fast and all with that?

Cool enough about the tentacle pink paint...

**supremeoverlordVECT**

dude....they have big wunz, but they are as strong as males.. they have the same muscle size as the male wyches!

**BoA.Raccoon**

That ork is hot.. o.O

**thenoobbomb**

They dont have muscles in their back or sixpacks, supremeoverlordVECT!

And BoA.Racoon, it surely is.

**Orlanth**

thenoobbomb wrote:What do you think about how GWS models their female minis?
All except SoB in power armor have, well, big bewbs, IMHO. (wyches for instance)

What do you think about it..

Not a fair point. GW miniatures are scaled out of true proportion, but are scaled reaonably fairly.

Most gamers are males and have a natural eye for female proportion and less interest in male proportion. GW male miniatures and female miniatures are both caricatures. Noone notices much let alone complains when the men don't look like actual men, if the women look out of proportion its actual more in proportion when compared to the counterpart male miniature (and that is not a reference to genetalia, just general build).

**thenoobbomb**

Just asking what you guys think of it

I spotted most of the females had 2 good points

**BoA.Raccoon**

I'm not sure if this is what you''re talking about as I haven't read the entire thread yet, but are you talking about how females have six packs but not males?

**Ratius**

I really like the Jokaero models.....

**WarOne**

thenoobbomb wrote:Just asking what you guys think of it
I spotted most of the females had 2 good points

1. They're female.
2. I like females?

**Vermillion**

Lord Rogukiel wrote:
Valkyrie wrote:For those who don't know, GW have stopped producing and selling Tentacle Pink for about 5 years, yet they somehow had a pot in pristine condition almost as if they use pink paints to attract female hobbyists.

Excellent, that was excellent! It's funny how this just contributes to the stereotypical nerd profile hobbyists get. I mean, its like most of them have never seen a girl, or are so deprived that a single female hint in a GW store freezes al activity.

Still, the tentacle pink thing is excellent. Made my day!

You guys have been to GW romford too?

Well lets face it fantasy outfits based on medevil outfits would be lower cut to show parts off, or am I just thinking of those serving wench outfits again?

Personally my worst offenders for making female models sexed up would be the esher gang stuff and it reminded me of a Nodwick stril where the female thief comments on the armour screaming kill me, I'm stupid

And they should definitely work on making more feminine hairstyles, in fact, just a variety of hair styles that aren't just "heres some punk hair styles, it's grimdark honest".

**BoA.Raccoon**

Lord Rogukiel wrote:
Valkyrie wrote:For those who don't know, GW have stopped producing and selling Tentacle Pink for about 5 years, yet they somehow had a pot in pristine condition almost as if they use pink paints to attract female hobbyists.

Excellent, that was excellent! It's funny how this just contributes to the stereotypical nerd profile hobbyists get. I mean, its like most of them have never seen a girl, or are so deprived that a single female hint in a GW store freezes al activity.

Still, the tentacle pink thing is excellent. Made my day!

I lol'd. Hard

**Aurelia**

GW's take on females isn't something that bothers me all that much, its more the lack of ability in sculpting. I just tend to go 'yay another female model' when one is done well: I'd rather there more female models, even ones with larger breasts, than none at all.

JOHIRA wrote:Women on the other hand (at least the women on the panel) don't tend to care if female characters are over-sexified as long as the characters are cool.

Rings true for all the female gamers (inc myself) I've ever known: we just tend to laugh when proportions are done really, really badly.

Vermillion wrote:
Lord Rogukiel wrote:
Valkyrie wrote:For those who don't know, GW have stopped producing and selling Tentacle Pink for about 5 years, yet they somehow had a pot in pristine condition almost as if they use pink paints to attract female hobbyists.

Excellent, that was excellent! It's funny how this just contributes to the stereotypical nerd profile hobbyists get. I mean, its like most of them have never seen a girl, or are so deprived that a single female hint in a GW store freezes al activity.

Still, the tentacle pink thing is excellent. Made my day!

You guys have been to GW romford too?

Well lets face it fantasy outfits based on medevil outfits would be lower cut to show parts off, or am I just thinking of those serving wench outfits again?
Personally my worst offenders for making female models sexed up would be the esher gang stuff and it reminded me of a Nodwick stril where the female thief comments on the armour screaming kill me, I'm stupid And they should definitely work on making more feminine hairstyles, in fact, just a variety of hair styles that aren't just "heres some punk hair styles, it's grimdark honest".

Sure you're not talking about most stores in Britain there?

I've been in a few stores around Britain and while a few years ago it wasn't as bad; any store I've gone into recently its been very much. "Aaaargh... a girl! Everybody freeze and assume pink models will subdue her!" ...and they really hate it when I talk about models, converting and having an army, like it scares them. Then there was the time I went to Games Day on a shop bus: I still feel eternally sorry for the girlfriend who got dragged along (and looked deathy bored all day) because she painted the banner. (Actually yes there was pink on it!)

**Sidstyler**

I'll second (or third...or fourth at this point, I dunno) that Lelith is one of the best female models GW has ever done, if not the best. But then again I'm not sure what that says about us seeing as how she's still half-naked. It's not really the skin that impresses me though, it's how relatively well-proportioned she looks for a heroic-scale figure (Lelith still isn't perfect, but compared to what else GW has to offer I mean) and how her pose, her expression, and her figure all fit her character. She looks agile, she looks deadly, and she definitely looks like she takes her work seriously.

I don't really have a problem with the wyches either, I still think they're awesome and miles above the old ones (buh...), but I have to agree with the other complaints, maybe they are just a tad androgynous and maybe they could have toned down their arms just a little bit. I never noticed how large their chests were though, guess I never paid much attention. So I'll say that at least, the plastic wyches are great but they would have been so much better if they were more like Lelith...but then again maybe that was intentional, since the regular wyches are all roided out and high on drugs while they make a point in the fluff that Lelith doesn't use them at all.

**stormwell**

Lord Rogukiel wrote:
Valkyrie wrote:For those who don't know, GW have stopped producing and selling Tentacle Pink for about 5 years, yet they somehow had a pot in pristine condition almost as if they use pink paints to attract female hobbyists.

Excellent, that was excellent! It's funny how this just contributes to the stereotypical nerd profile hobbyists get. I mean, its like most of them have never seen a girl, or are so deprived that a single female hint in a GW store freezes al activity.

Still, the tentacle pink thing is excellent. Made my day!

Must be a dry area for female geeks/gamers.

My area seems to be inundated with 'em and half my current RPG is made up of female gamers, which is actually down from a past group where me and the GM were the only blokes in a group of 7 people.

**kronk**

BoA.Raccoon wrote:That ork is hot.. o.O

Would you?

**NuggzTheNinja**

malfred wrote: Her argument isn't that idealizations are wrong, but that sexualized
idealizations of superheroes is degrading, impractical, and a turn-off,
and these idealizations are geared toward a male audience who
want costumes that feature D-cups.

So her argument is based on the presumption that men all want to see D-cup hoochie mamas?

Her alternative male superhero looks like a young Marlon Brando in BDSM drag. I'm not a woman, but I can say with fair certainty that women do not want that. If male superheroes were crafted to be ideals for women, they would probably look like metrosexual hipster stick people with lots of money and no masculine assertiveness.

**misfit**

I don't think GW is over the top with its female minis, i don't think the breasts are particularly big. Sodapop minis are another matter.

**Portugal Jones**

NuggzTheNinja wrote: If male superheroes were crafted to be ideals for women, they would probably look like metrosexual hipster stick people with lots of money and no masculine assertiveness.

Nuts, and this thread was going so well. Still I guess that making it three pages before the dumb started busting loose is a pretty good run.

**misfit**

puma713 wrote:
kronk wrote:Their boobs aren't big enough. We need more Linsey Dawn McKenzie style models.

Wonder how many people looked her up/have her as a wallpaper now.

Ok so i googled her. Bleh, so not my type. Boobs aside she isn't hot, she's not ugly but definitely not hot.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

JOHIRA wrote:I don't think there's anything wrong with the SoB. Yes, it is a bit silly to have large breasts molded on power armour, but the SoB line is nothing if not silly. I mean, space-nuns with bolters driving a tank that shoots missiles out of a pipe-organ? If there was even a single element of the SoB line that wasn't silly the whole line would probably collapse into some kind of quantum paradox. And as I've said before, I've got no problem with boobs on a mini. They're only inappropriate when their presentation runs contrary to the rest of the line's aesthetic.

[overthink]
Actually, GW generally seems to do pretty well in this regard. GW's approach to women is immature of course, but compared to many other miniature companies GW is remarkably non-exploitative. GW's problem is more like a pre-adolescent boy's problem with girls than any kind of sex obsession. GW seems to be aware that there are women out there, and maybe they're beginning to think the ladies are oddly compelling but they aren't sure why, and they try to keep it a secret so that none of their pals find out and make fun of them for liking girls. So there are a few token ladies here and there in their products, but they're usually either confined to characters that fit a fantasy archetype (maidens, sorceresses), units of all girls neatly segregated from the boys (DE witch elves, Eldar howling banshees, SoB), or occasional women mixed into an army known for their androgynous aesthetic (Eldar guardians, DE wyches). They even have a big old "No Girlz aLloweD!" sign on their best club house, the space marine line. But then again, if there were female space marines we'd probably be subjected to God-awful fan-fiction about Dante hooking up with a callidus assassin or Marneus Calgar going on the pull. So maybe it's better there aren't.

Like MeanGreenStompa said, they're very hit/miss in their sculpts, possibly because GW sculptors are aware that women exist but try not to look at them very often. Kind of like how whoever sculpted minotaurs was clearly aware of cows as a concept, but I'm guessing has never actually seen one. But as annoying as it is to see GW be so inconsistent, I much prefer their approach to minis than a line of nothing but improbable chainmail bikinis. Like I said earlier, if miniature want to sculpt their ladies with T&A that's fine, but it needs to be consistent with their line. So DE witches are ridiculously dressed, but every other dark elf is ridiculously dressed as well. And there are female DE spear(wo)men with lots of covering, so there is at least a sense that there is a reason DE witches strip down to their metal undies and braid fish hooks into their hair.

Contrast this with say, Wargames Factory's Amazons which are the sculpting equivalent of shooting yourself in the foot. Amazons are famous as the roughest, toughest women from mythology, and WGF turned them into a bunch of inept-looking cheerleaders. I'll take GW's almost innocent pre-teen fear of women in miniature to other companies' exploitative teenage horndog approach.

A while back, several famous woman-gamers had a panel discussion talking about the state of female characters in gaming (sorry, I don't remember the event, just that Kathleen Devere was on the panel.) And the thing that I kept seeing with that discussion is that men tend to be more uncomfortable with overly-sexified female characters than many women are. Which makes sense, because overly-sexified characters are a way of marketing to men, and it implies a quite insulting notion of what the marketing department thinks is sufficient to get men's money. Women on the other hand (at least the women on the panel) don't tend to care if female characters are over-sexified as long as the characters are cool. The SoB are silly, but you could imagine someone thinking they're cool. I have trouble imagining anyone who thinks the WGF Amazons represent cool women. So yeah, GW could do better, but judging by many of their competitors, they could do a lot worse.
[/overthink]

Gonna have to disagree with you on a couple points. Regarding the SOB being ridiculous with the whole nun concept, i would view them to something similar as warrior monks, is it wierd that a pipe organ shoots missiles? Sure but we're talking 40k here where orks are fungus. I find GW to be pretty consistent with there sculpts of breasts the only models that i can think of that are really over the top were the DE slaves, but breasts aside i thought the entire model(s) were bad sculpts of women. I do agree with the notion that males are more uncomfortable than females when dealing with oversexed female minis, i think men/boys tend to overthink the whole notion of busty women sculpts than women. WGF amazon minis are just bad looking period, not sure i see them as cheerleaders.

**Platuan4th**

misfit wrote: the only models that i can think of that are really over the top were the DE slaves

Which ones? The ones released or the unreleased topless versions?

**lukewild1982**

Just the way I like my woman, a bazooka slung over the shoulder and two strapped to her chest

**misfit**

Platuan4th wrote:
misfit wrote: the only models that i can think of that are really over the top were the DE slaves

Which ones? The ones released or the unreleased topless versions?

I wasn't aware there were topless versions actually. Thats news to me.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
It could be worse you know, the day GW brings out a mini with camel toe then i'll do a face palm.

**Lord Rogukiel**

misfit wrote:It could be worse you know, the day GW brings out a mini with camel toe then i'll do a face palm.

Agreed, that would be the worst thing they could ever do.

**Platuan4th**

misfit wrote:
Platuan4th wrote:
misfit wrote: the only models that i can think of that are really over the top were the DE slaves

Which ones? The ones released or the unreleased topless versions?

I wasn't aware there were topless versions actually. Thats news to me.

http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/Dark_Eldar_-_Unreleased

**Aurelia**

NuggzTheNinja wrote:
Her alternative male superhero looks like a young Marlon Brando in BDSM drag. I'm not a woman, but I can say with fair certainty that women do not want that. If male superheroes were crafted to be ideals for women, they would probably look like metrosexual hipster stick people with lots of money and no masculine assertiveness.

While you are correct on that first point, that picture made me laugh so much; assuming most women do not go for masculine assertiveness is definately waaaaaay off!

**MightyGodzilla**

kronk wrote:
BoA.Raccoon wrote:That ork is hot.. o.O

Would you?

You know there are a city full of ST nerds that'd totally hit that!!

Sidstyler wrote:I'll second (or third...or fourth at this point, I dunno) that Lelith is one of the best female models GW has ever done, if not the best. But then again I'm not sure what that says about us seeing as how she's still half-naked.

You forget that Lileth chooses to be half naked. You can hardly blame the sculptors for that! And the notion of heroic scale bewbs makes me lol. Hard.

Sidstyler wrote:I don't really have a problem with the wyches either, I still think they're awesome and miles above the old ones (buh...), but I have to agree with the other complaints, maybe they are just a tad androgynous and maybe they could have toned down their arms just a little bit. I never noticed how large their chests were though, guess I never paid much attention. So I'll say that at least, the plastic wyches are great but they would have been so much better if they were more like Lelith...but then again maybe that was intentional, since the regular wyches are all roided out and high on drugs while they make a point in the fluff that Lelith doesn't use them at all.

I know I brought that point to the table initially, but remember I too disclaimed that I like the line before I started critiquing it. The entire reason they did all that big muscle bizness is because they wanted all of the interchangability between not only the male and female models, but also between all of their different plastic kits in the line. Part-swap kung fu, they haz it! Realistic scaling, anatomalogical correctness, sexual dimorphism (means males and females are different sizes)...not so much.

But hey it's a minature company. A wargame, and a high quality one at that. And they get better and better as the years go by. Wanna see realistic scaling, anatomalogical correctness, and sexual dimorphism? Go to a club! (but leave your hobby knives at home)

-MightyG

**Platuan4th**

MightyGodzilla wrote:

Sidstyler wrote:I'll second (or third...or fourth at this point, I dunno) that Lelith is one of the best female models GW has ever done, if not the best. But then again I'm not sure what that says about us seeing as how she's still half-naked.

You forget that Lileth chooses to be half naked. You can hardly blame the sculptors for that! And the notion of heroic scale bewbs makes me lol. Hard.

Lelith chooses to be half-naked because the writers wrote her that way.

Funniest thing, she's wearing LESS than she used to(no more mask, feet coverings, or right arm gauntlet).

**whitedragon**

Sidstyler wrote:She looks agile, she looks deadly, and she definitely looks like she takes her work seriously.

Sigged.

**Snarky**

misfit wrote:
It could be worse you know, the day GW brings out a mini with camel toe then i'll do a face palm.

It's a good thing you've never bought Kruegllah!