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From what i've seen, which is the odd moment here and there, The dialogue is fairly woeful and the plots confusing (and not in a rich tapestry way more like an arbitrary double-cross kinda way).

I have seen Akira and a couple of thse ghibli ones and they often have poor dialogue and muddled plots so if they are the best then........... Infact i have a similar problem with most eastern cinema all that 'House of four flying tigers' rubbish is woeful, 'Ooohhh look at the shiny!' doesnt sustain them through their usually butt numbing length. The only piece of eastern 'period' drama i enjoyed was the film 'mongol'.

Albatross wrote:
Wrong. One is comedy, one is drama. They are different styles. You are comparing two genres of anime (a style) to two styles of television program ( a medium). That's your error. You seem to think that by saying something is in the same style, I'm saying it's in the same genre, and so should share the same generic indicators. It's broader than that.


Animation is a medium. Anime is animation in the Japanese style. 'Sci-Fi Anime' would be the genre.

Television is the medium (roughly). Comedy is the style. Situation Comedy is the genre.


Hope this helps.

I don't think your descriptions are quite accurate. I think that when you say Television, you are actually referring to all filmed television programming that employs live actors. Otherwise, Animation is a style of Television.

The other problem I have with this line of argument is that it assumes there cannot be any cross-over between filmed shows and animated shows in terms of genre. This is not the case - there tends to be a large amount of overlap between filmed shows and animated shows, at least in terms of genre. The genre "Sci-Fi" includes both Cowboy Bebop and Firefly - two shows where even the plot is somewhat similar, despite one being an Anime and the other a filmed-TV series. And how many filmed high-school television shows have there been? I can name at least 5 without much trouble - Saved by the Bell, Fresh Prince of Bel-Aire, Happy Days, Family Matters, and Glee. I'm sure there are plenty more now that I'm just not aware of.

Anime is just a subset of Animation. But Filmed Television also has its own subsets - from being filmed live, to sitcoms, to filmed like a movie. You can perhaps call these "styles" of their respective mediums, but Comedy is not a style - it's a genre. Situational Comedy is a sub-genre of Comedy, but they are all still genres, and they are not unique to either Animation or Filmed Television.

.

Melissia wrote:

CiaranAnnrach wrote:But that's my usual gripe with Anime. They always cut things, change things they shouldn't, or add in stupid filler crap that's not in the manga.

I don't care about that... as long as it's good. Mind you, most filler isn't very good. But sometimes the changes and the filler are still entertaining to watch.

The twin FMA series for example-- yeah, I think Brotherhood is better... but only because it's better written, not because it's based more on the manga than the first one. The first FMA anime series was still very much entertaining, more so than many series which ARE loyal to their manga.

This could very well be because I can't stand manga. Western style comics are far superior to Japanese style comics in my view.

This is true. Sometimes they do filler well - unfortunately I've found this to be the exception rather than the rule, and it's enough to turn me off from anime in general.

It is a pity, though, that you just dislike manga in general. I can't imagine not reading the manga after watching Beserk - I was about ready to kill someone when they sprung that cliffhanger on me.


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Perkustin wrote:From what i've seen, which is the odd moment here and there, The dialogue is fairly woeful and the plots confusing (and not in a rich tapestry way more like an arbitrary double-cross kinda way).

I have seen Akira and a couple of thse ghibli ones and they often have poor dialogue and muddled plots so if they are the best then........... Infact i have a similar problem with most eastern cinema all that 'House of four flying tigers' rubbish is woeful, 'Ooohhh look at the shiny!' doesnt sustain them through their usually butt numbing length. The only piece of eastern 'period' drama i enjoyed was the film 'mongol'.

Are you watching the dubbed versions, or reading the subtitles?

The subtitled versions are almost always better than the dubbed. The only exception to this rule that I've found thus far is Cowboy Bebop.

nectarprime: "I just can't stand it."


You know that you can always be sacrificed to the Blood God right?

CiaranAnnrach wrote:
The subtitled versions are almost always better than the dubbed. The only exception to this rule that I've found thus far is Cowboy Bebop.

"BELEIVE IT!"

FuryTheBerserker wrote:nectarprime: "I just can't stand it."


You know that you can always be sacrificed to the Blood God right?

For some reason I don't think Khorne likes anime either....

The only thing that determines whether or not something is Anime, is the art style. It can be any genre, so to say you hate all anime is pretty pointless. There are a lot of series with good plots, and characters that are not annoying.

Also I don't really watch Anime, I read the Manga. Even the Japanese versions of the shows often leave things out from the books, but the English dubs are usually incomprehensible. The reason for this is because in the west, Anime=Cartoon=For Kids, so they dumb it down.

I love subbed rather than dubbed... though dubbed does have its moments.

nectarprime wrote:

FuryTheBerserker wrote:nectarprime: "I just can't stand it."


You know that you can always be sacrificed to the Blood God right?

For some reason I don't think Khorne likes anime either....

khorne only likes blood and violence,so he probably watches hellsing.and other bloody ones.he skips to the bloody parts though.

i like anime. i will admit its hard to find a really good one but when you do its worth it.

So can someone recommend some anime for me?

I don't enjoy graphic violence or overly sexual themes. Nothing about highschool, lol. I like deep story lines with twists.

nectarprime wrote:So can someone recommend some anime for me?

I don't enjoy graphic violence or overly sexual themes. Nothing about highschool, lol. I like deep story lines with twists.

full metal alchemist. full metal alchemist brotherhood.

I don't watch a lot mainly because I find it a bit thin/padded out. A visual medium should be visually stimulating, not the storyboard for a radioplay.

If something is gak I won't watch it, not that I watch a lot in the first instance.

That said dismissing a whole form of media out of hand is like saying 'I don't like films shot on iMax'

This is how I picture the average anime fan.

lord commissar klimino wrote:

nectarprime wrote:

FuryTheBerserker wrote:nectarprime: "I just can't stand it."


You know that you can always be sacrificed to the Blood God right?

For some reason I don't think Khorne likes anime either....

khorne only likes blood and violence,so he probably watches hellsing.and other bloody ones.he skips to the bloody parts though.

i like anime. i will admit its hard to find a really good one but when you do its worth it.

Beserk.

Gattsu, the main character, earns the name "100 man slayer" by killing 100 armed knights/mercenaries. By himself, at one time. Khorne would love himself some Beserk.

I wouldn't say I dislike Anime. I would say I dislike all Anime besides Studio Ghibli. Hayao Miyazaki is a film legend.

Next part is kinda NSFW

nectarprime wrote:So can someone recommend some anime for me?

I don't enjoy graphic violence or overly sexual themes. Nothing about highschool, lol. I like deep story lines with twists.

Death Note.

Bakuman is pretty good, though I don't know if it has an anime yet. Same people who did Death Note do Bakuman.

Nodame no Cantabile I highly recommend. Not the deepest of story lines, not many twists, but very fun and it survives the manga->anime transition extremely well. If you were ever in a classical band/orchestra, or enjoy classical music, you'll probably love it. If not, you might find yourself wanting to listen to more classical music.

Hajime no Ippo is another pretty good series. Boxing anime, not overly graphic/bloody or anything. Though the manga series has been dragging on lately...

If you are open to manga, I can recommend a few more that I'm not sure are adapted to anime yet.

Recommended Anime threads are already current on Dakka

Monster
I am possibly an average anime fan, meaning I watch lots but don't get obsessed.

I assure you I look nothing like that.
Okay I have beard and specs, but that is as far as the similarity goes, ne?


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CiaranAnnrach wrote:It is a pity, though, that you just dislike manga in general. I can't imagine not reading the manga after watching Beserk - I was about ready to kill someone when they sprung that cliffhanger on me.

I'm just annoyed that they stopped it. Not pissed off.

Most manga artists, I find, wouldn't know how to write a consistent and competently done story if it came up and kicked them in the ass....

if your experience of anime is something rubbish and pathetic like the US translation of naruto, DBZ or pokemon (which is about as far as most people go to judge an entire franchise and an entire country of people) then yes anime sucks

go watch ghost in the shell, gunslinger girl or azumanga daioh and its far more enjoyable than the utter tripe hollywood churns out everyday

On that, however, I am in full agreement.

Melissia wrote:I'm just annoyed that they stopped it. Not pissed off.

Most manga artists, I find, wouldn't know how to write a consistent and competently done story if it came up and kicked them in the ass....

I find it curious you would say that, but still enjoy anime. Most of the time, I find that during the conversion of a manga to an anime, parts of the story become inconsistent and holes are introduced into the story. Rather, by reading the manga, I actually get the full, consistent, complete story.

That said, there are definitely manga - and anime - whose plots/stories are highly episodic and don't really create one large over-arching story. But this is hardly unique to manga/anime - several tv shows share this same flaw. But there are also several manga/anime series which do have the larger, complete, consistent story. High School of the Dead. Beserk. Death Note. The Breaker. Cage of Eden. H2. Touch.

Oh. Yes. Mitsuru Adachi. I've yet to read a single one of his works that I've not loved. I highly recommend his works.

The point is, there are plenty of manga/anime artists out there who write phenomenal stories, which are complete, consistent, and can't be read/watched one episode at a time. There are plenty of manga/anime where that's not the case, too, but this is true of most genres of story telling.

Bible Black

/thread

Ahtman wrote:I do not care for most of it. Enjoyed it when I was younger but as I got older I found it repetitive and even a bit nauseating: similar animation styles, similar mile wide inch deep philosophical spouting, similar misogyny, ect ect. The rare gem that is good is very good, but I rarely find it to be worth the trouble to be honest. If someone I trust makes a recommendation I will watch it. Probably the biggest problem with anime is, of course the fans, who tend to confuse obsession for enthusiasm.

This. I find most anime to be pretentious to the extreme. So much of it tries to have these deep philosophical and introspective moments and musings, usually on the part of the main character and/or villain, to the point that it comes across as obviously forced, insincere, and ironically enough, downright shallow. This in itself is fine, if I don't like something I don't expose myself to it unnecessarily, the problem lies with hardcore fans, who as someone else noticed can't differentiate between obsession and enthusiasm, but seem to go so far as to think that anime is some sort of exploration of the human soul, and that these moments actually do have some sort of deeper meaning which they frequently think relates to them in some way (no I'm sorry, no matter how much you might wish it was true, you are not a super emo self-loathing vampire with bunny ears and daddy issues, no matter how much you might think your life sucks, its nowhere near that bad). The worst die hards go so far as to look down on many other forms of entertainment and other storylines/settings for not having this same level of 'depth' and not being as creative as the anime that they seem to love to the point of worship.

Thats not to say I don't like anime. I appreciate a good one every now and again. I'm a big fan of the gundam series (especially those set in the UC timeline, but at the end of the day, I just like big frackin robots), Cowboy Bebop is a longtime favorite of mine (Faye is hot (for a cartoon character), the setting is cool, and the effect is enhanced by immersing itself in the music (or vice versa), and there are a few others that I appreciate, more for the setting and overall theme/storyline than because of the characters themselves or the plot, such as Blue Submarine No. 6 and Crest of the Stars, Jin-Roh, and Ghost of the Shell. In fact, I think most of the animes I do like are in the latter category rather than the former.

The other minor issues I have is when an anime seems to both take itself seriously and not take itself seriously simultaneously. There are lots of great anime that seem to make a mockery of themselves/parody real life, such as School Rumble. These I enjoy, they are good for a good laugh, but the show doesn't really take itself seriously (at least that seems to be the intention). But then there are other anime, like Trigun, where its a seemingly serious show, complete with character that is so introspective and philosophical and 'deep' to the point of inducing nausea, and yet they inject very shallow overt humor that interrupts the story and challenges my ability to suspend disbelief. Take for example the previous comment about the show, regarding talking and killing and groping. Its an obviously forced line that interrupts the flow of the story, ruins what is otherwise a dramatic and tense cinematic moment, adds no real value to the plot, etc. and just ruins the overall flow of things, just for the sake of a cheap laugh.

I am split when it comes to anime. I love stuff like Ghost in the Sell, Cowboy Bebop, Big O and Witch Hunter Robin, but other dross like Bleach and Dragon Ball gives me a migraine. If only it could all be more like Princess Mononoke.

Re chaos0xomega:

What are you watching that is pretentious? I'm curious, none of the ones I've seen struck me as particularly pretentious. Maybe Death Note.

I know what you are saying, though, about the seriousness aspect - or lack thereof in some cases. I've noticed most of the darker manga I've read don't get anime series, whereas the more comical ones geared towards teens get them all the time. It probably has something to do with the target audience, and keeping everything age appropriate for the intended target audience. Nobody wants to make an anime out of a manga that'll cause them to get tons of angry letters/emails from parents.

As for fanatical fans - that's nothing new, nor unique to manga/anime. How many die-hard 40k fanatics are out there?

Soladrin wrote:Point is, Anime has more genres then any other video media.

Wut? Pretty much all of the anime genres/themes first originated in live action films. There have been sci-fi, fantasy, and steam punk movies too, you know...

If I am going to watch something animated, I prefer a more traditional and no weird eyes style. Atlantis the Lost Empire, Dead Space Downfall (which some were calling anime but there were no weird eyes. )


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Spirited Away, Castle in the sky and Naussica and the Valley of the wind were pretty cool though. The stories were great; that is definitely what made them good.

Alfred J. Kwak is anime, and I love it!

CiaranAnnrach wrote:Re chaos0xomega:

What are you watching that is pretentious? I'm curious, none of the ones I've seen struck me as particularly pretentious. Maybe Death Note.

I know what you are saying, though, about the seriousness aspect - or lack thereof in some cases. I've noticed most of the darker manga I've read don't get anime series, whereas the more comical ones geared towards teens get them all the time. It probably has something to do with the target audience, and keeping everything age appropriate for the intended target audience. Nobody wants to make an anime out of a manga that'll cause them to get tons of angry letters/emails from parents.

My pretentious list:
Serial Experiments: Lain
Inuyasha
Jin-Roh *
Bleach

I'm sure there are others, but those are just off the top of my head. Pretty much anything involving teen angst is almost guaranteed to strike me as pretentious...

*While watching this I did my best to overlook this, because again, I enjoy the setting more than the characters and/or theme themselves.

As for Death Note, I actually liked it, then again I've only ever seen the live action films (which I thought were well done).

As for fanatical fans - that's nothing new, nor unique to manga/anime. How many die-hard 40k fanatics are out there?

Don't get me started

chaos0xomega wrote:
My pretentious list:
Serial Experiments: Lain
Inuyasha
Jin-Roh *
Bleach

I'm sure there are others, but those are just off the top of my head. Pretty much anything involving teen angst is almost guaranteed to strike me as pretentious...

*While watching this I did my best to overlook this, because again, I enjoy the setting more than the characters and/or theme themselves.

As for Death Note, I actually liked it, then again I've only ever seen the live action films (which I thought were well done).

Ahh. I've not seen Jin-Roh or Serial Experiments: Lain, so I'll take your word for it. But Inuyasha and Bleach both rank pretty low on my list of "good" anime/manga. They just get a whole lot of publicity by virtue of being battle series that are popular with children.

Death Note...I've not seen the live action film, but I heard it was phenomenal. I heard the guy they got to do J nailed his quirky personality, and J was one of the better characters in the story IMO. I really have no excuse for why I haven't seen it yet...I should probably try to find it.