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Tau Titan, here we come?

Uhlan wrote:I'll bet that when the new Tau codex comes out we'll read "newly" discovered details about Tau tactics and victories at the expense of the Imperium. Maybe even some really scary Tau CC. If there is any race other than the Tyranids who can adapt and over come it's the Tau.

That's wishfull thinking at best. The only world Tau took is backwather worlds with no millitary at all and with not more than 15.000.000 citizens.
Like taking a minor Pacific island from USSR.

Somehow I have a feeling whenever the next Tau codex comes, they are going to evolve a lot more then since we have last seen from both the 4th ed. Codex and the Forgeworld IA book. Most likely Tau are going to change tactics completely, or bring out some major big guns.

Just had a butchers at AI3 for those that are interested and it was the AX-1-0 Tigershark that did the deed. Armed with a pair of Heavy Railguns and half a dozen seekers.

The Warhound has 2 void shields.

notprop wrote:Just had a butchers at AI3 for those that are interested and it was the AX-1-0 Tigershark that did the deed. Armed with a pair of Heavy Railguns and half a dozen seekers.

The Warhound has 2 void shields.

What were the actual tactics involved if you don't mind and if they're available?

chaos0xomega wrote:Where does it say that? Besides the fact that it doesn't need to enter the atmosphere, the fluff is full of instances where Imperial Cruisers entered a planets atmosphere, I see no reason why the Tau analogues couldn't do the same.

Orbital bombardments usually aren't especially useful for killing a single particular unit, even titan-sized. They're really hard to aim at that scale, and there's almost always something more important for a warship to be doing than trying to take down a single particular ground unit.

Uhlan wrote:

notprop wrote:Just had a butchers at AI3 for those that are interested and it was the AX-1-0 Tigershark that did the deed. Armed with a pair of Heavy Railguns and half a dozen seekers.

The Warhound has 2 void shields.

What were the actual tactics involved if you don't mind and if they're available?

Swooped in and shot 'em point blank iirc.

One titan? A sufficent number of railguns, heavy railguns and superheavy railguns ought to do the trick. A titan legion? I refer to my previos post of why the Imperium wouldent send one. A tau titan? I dont think so... they would propably make a ship out off it so it would just be a space ship. At best capebel of flying within the atmosfare and firing its super-ultra railguns on titans at realatively close range...

chaos0xomega wrote: A single Manta should be able to handle a Reaver or Warlord just as easily. A couple Mantas should be able to handle an Imperator pretty handily as well. My guess, given the role that the Manta's serve in the Tau Empire, is that the Tau probably have access to more Manta's than the Imperium does Imperator Titans. Granted the Imperium is easily several hundred (thousand is more likely) times larger than the Tau Empire, but Imperators are described as ultra rare, etc.so who knows.

Handle by running away before the titan legion deploys, pulling out of the system to come back when the IoM has left maybe.
Other than that, wishful thinking.
Assets like titan legios won't walk alone, and sure as hell those mantas are nice slow targets.

chaos0xomega wrote:
You mean ignoring the Titans that the Damocles Gulf Crusade deployed on Dal'yth? Taros was hardly the first time that they encountered a Titan, thats why the Tigershark was developed in the first place. The book Savage Scars mentions that seeker missiles proved to be the bane of the warhound titans and a couple were lost to them until the Marines figured out how to spot the ambushes, etc. Also worth noting is that, IIRC, the heavy railguns carried on the Tigershark and Manta are supposed to be based on the railguns carried by Tau warships. If they can do damage to an Imperial cruiser, they sure as hell can do damage to a Titan.

Thougth a couple is more than 1... but maybe thats just the misinformed european I am.
Why don't you tell us what happened to the Tau attempts to swarm the titans?

Sure air Raids work so well when the sky is cleansed of all your machines....

chaos0xomega wrote:
This thread is so full of ignorance of the fluff it makes me want to vomit. Warhounds don't have void shields? O rly? Tiger Sharks and Mantas are spacecraft (the Manta part is forgivable)?etc. etc. etc.

Don't ya vomit on our keyboards.

Consider your own ignorance to the fact a Titan Legio is not deployed in minor conflicts.
Thus its most likely the Tau are just there, but not the opposition the legio was sent against. Could be chaos for exmple.
Now imagine the damage done to their reputation if it turn out the "backstabbing" of the Tau granted chaos a victory.
You know, Tau ability to identify friend and foe sucks.... and there are those who cheat like this bird-demon generator ....who loves blue..

notprop wrote:
The Warhound has 2 void shields.

that's 2 points. Reaver has 4, Warlord 6, Imperator 8 or 10.
Do the math now...

And in fluff that is different than on table.

1hadhq wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote: A single Manta should be able to handle a Reaver or Warlord just as easily. A couple Mantas should be able to handle an Imperator pretty handily as well. My guess, given the role that the Manta's serve in the Tau Empire, is that the Tau probably have access to more Manta's than the Imperium does Imperator Titans. Granted the Imperium is easily several hundred (thousand is more likely) times larger than the Tau Empire, but Imperators are described as ultra rare, etc.so who knows.

Handle by running away before the titan legion deploys, pulling out of the system to come back when the IoM has left maybe.
Other than that, wishful thinking.
Assets like titan legios won't walk alone, and sure as hell those mantas are nice slow targets.

Well, the Taros Campaign lists the Manta's max recorded speed as unknown, but it lists every other Tau aircrafts max recorded speed as 2100KPH (Barracuda, Tigershark, and even the Orca) so I think its safe to assume the Manta is capable of similar speeds as well. Besides the fact that it would need to be able of going much faster than that in order to achieve escape velocity and leave orbit. I would say that those Mantas are very very fast targets...

Thougth a couple is more than 1... but maybe thats just the misinformed european I am.
Why don't you tell us what happened to the Tau attempts to swarm the titans?

Sure air Raids work so well when the sky is cleansed of all your machines....

I recall there being a second titan that was lost to seeker missiles in Savage Scars. As for Tau attempts to swarm the titans I don't think there were any. And having the sky cleaned of all your aircraft... surely you're referring to the Imperium which lost all its air cover which allowed the Tau to evacuate the planet...

Consider your own ignorance to the fact a Titan Legio is not deployed in minor conflicts.
Thus its most likely the Tau are just there, but not the opposition the legio was sent against. Could be chaos for exmple.
Now imagine the damage done to their reputation if it turn out the "backstabbing" of the Tau granted chaos a victory.
You know, Tau ability to identify friend and foe sucks.... and there are those who cheat like this bird-demon generator ....who loves blue..

My own ignorance? Last I checked the Damocles Gulf Crusade, Taros, and a dozen other instances in the fluff could all be defined as 'minor conflicts'. The Damocles Crusade wasn't even a real crusading force, its own leaders stated as much. On both Taros and in the Damocles Gulf Crusade, the Titans WERE deployed against the Tau. The forces sent were there specifically to fight them. I don't even understand what the second half of your post is trying to suggest.

Brother Coa wrote:

notprop wrote:
The Warhound has 2 void shields.

that's 2 points. Reaver has 4, Warlord 6, Imperator 8 or 10.
Do the math now...

And in fluff that is different than on table.

Except for the fact that the only official canon produced by GW is from the design studio (Black Library isn't canon, just supplementary fiction). Thus if the Apocalypse has warhounds with void shields (which it does, 2 in fact, not sure why you're saying it doesn't, I think you're confusing them w/ structure points (warhound has 3))... warhounds have void shields.

Brother Coa wrote:

Uhlan wrote:I'll bet that when the new Tau codex comes out we'll read "newly" discovered details about Tau tactics and victories at the expense of the Imperium. Maybe even some really scary Tau CC. If there is any race other than the Tyranids who can adapt and over come it's the Tau.

That's wishfull thinking at best. The only world Tau took is backwather worlds with no millitary at all and with not more than 15.000.000 citizens.
Like taking a minor Pacific island from USSR.

Wait what?

You do realize the Tau invasion got so bad Calgar had to ask for a dozen Space Marine Chapters to hold back the Tau expansions. They then pushed forward with every ounce of muscle they had and then only managed to push the Tau back into captured Imperial territory before leaving. When the Chapter Master of the Ultra Marines has to personally step in and ask for assistance you aren't a "minor" threat to the Imperium.

Also, the "backwater" world of Taros was a planet destined to be a resource planet for a forge world, a massive loss to the IoM.

Tau forces might not be knocking on Earth's doorstep, but they are a force to be reckoned with in the Eastern Fringe.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Except for the fact that the only official canon produced by GW is from the design studio (Black Library isn't canon, just supplementary fiction). Thus if the Apocalypse has warhounds with void shields (which it does, 2 in fact, not sure why you're saying it doesn't, I think you're confusing them w/ structure points (warhound has 3))... warhounds have void shields.

So that means that Viod Shields in IA are in fact Stuctural Integrity?

And everyone that mention Tau as a "force to be recond with" I will just say 3 words: NImbosa, Lagan, Zeist... "Force to be recond with" yeah right - send in the NEcrons they will invite them to join

Brother Coa wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Except for the fact that the only official canon produced by GW is from the design studio (Black Library isn't canon, just supplementary fiction). Thus if the Apocalypse has warhounds with void shields (which it does, 2 in fact, not sure why you're saying it doesn't, I think you're confusing them w/ structure points (warhound has 3))... warhounds have void shields.

So that means that Viod Shields in IA are in fact Stuctural Integrity?

What? No. Warhound titans have two Void Shields on top of three Structure Points.

Ah yes it was a Tigershark. Silly me edited my post.

The Warhound also does have void shields. I know that much.

I do agree that the Tau are being underrated here, which was not the intent of me posting this thread (rather it was just to discuss how they could take down bigger Titans...). The whole "3 Chapters of Space Marines could bring down the Tau" is silly, and it'd take much more then that and a very significant military operation for the Imperium to do it. Not 13th Black Crusade Level, but still significant. My personal belief on it is that the Tau Empire to the Imperium is what Imperial Japan was to the British Empire. They weren't going to conquer the whole British Empire or, but they were a dangerous regional threat and the British Military was to overstretched with other matters (such as WWII in Europe) to sufficiently protect their regional holdings. This is pretty much the situation for the Imperium. They aren't going to be destroyed by the Tau, but they are at risk losing many holdings on the Eastern Fringe and while they could destroy the Tau Empire if they put enough resources into it, Imperial forces are currently too stretched across the Galaxy to do so.

The "lots of Tigersharks and Mantas with Railguns" seems to be the main counter right now, but I suspect a larger Titan Legion with Warlords and the like would also have very significant air defense escorts to go with it: Hydras, Tarantula SAM Batteries, and a major military operation like that would invariably bring in Imperial Navy fighters as well.

The Warhound and Feral(Chaos Warhound)has 2 void shields and 3 SP.
The Reaver and Ravager(Chaos Reaver)has 4 void shield and 6 SP.
The Warlord has 6 Voids and 9 SP.
The Emperor has 8 void shields and 12 SP.


As you can see,each titan has 2 more voids and 3 more SP than the last,or the equivilent of a warhound.

Deadshot wrote:The Warhound and Feral(Chaos Warhound)has 2 void shields and 3 SP.
The Reaver and Ravager(Chaos Reaver)has 4 void shield and 6 SP.
The Warlord has 6 Voids and 9 SP.
The Emperor has 8 void shields and 12 SP.


As you can see,each titan has 2 more voids and 3 more SP than the last,or the equivilent of a warhound.

And Tau barely took down 1 Warhound.
They will need 3 Space Battle Ships to take down 1 Emperor

chaos0xomega wrote:
I recall there being a second titan that was lost to seeker missiles in Savage Scars. As for Tau attempts to swarm the titans I don't think there were any. And having the sky cleaned of all your aircraft... surely you're referring to the Imperium which lost all its air cover which allowed the Tau to evacuate the planet...

Have you read the book at all?
Got the impression youre either going from hearsay or can't remember, so may I fill in the blanks?

- Tau ambushed a single warhound, one who scouted forwrd without any support.
- ambushers were flushed out, and titans of any sort moved with support from now on
- Tau attempted to swarm the Titans in dense terrain with hundreds of suit teams.
- suit teams were swatted like flies, because the princeps learned not to underestimate their opponents.
- imperium was low on air support, but had enough AA support to keep the skies clear.

chaos0xomega wrote:
My own ignorance?

Exactly.
Only a certain level of alcohol would excuse it.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Last I checked the Damocles Gulf Crusade, Taros, and a dozen other instances in the fluff could all be defined as 'minor conflicts'. The Damocles Crusade wasn't even a real crusading force, its own leaders stated as much. On both Taros and in the Damocles Gulf Crusade, the Titans WERE deployed against the Tau. The forces sent were there specifically to fight them. I don't even understand what the second half of your post is trying to suggest.

Seems you didn't understand anything of it. My bad. Should try again.

1) Tau are not part of major conflicts, thus unlikely to see whole Legios of titns deployed against them
2) if a Legio would be sent, it would bring some friends, so attacks would not go unchallenged
3) I'd guess the first time Tau encounter a full Legio is as a third party in a conflict.
4) Tau choose their friends not wisely, as shown in 5th ed. Taking sides may find them on the less beneficial side....

BeefCakeSoup wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

Uhlan wrote:I'll bet that when the new Tau codex comes out we'll read "newly" discovered details about Tau tactics and victories at the expense of the Imperium. Maybe even some really scary Tau CC. If there is any race other than the Tyranids who can adapt and over come it's the Tau.

That's wishfull thinking at best. The only world Tau took is backwather worlds with no millitary at all and with not more than 15.000.000 citizens.
Like taking a minor Pacific island from USSR.

Wait what?

You do realize the Tau invasion got so bad Calgar had to ask for a dozen Space Marine Chapters to hold back the Tau expansions. They then pushed forward with every ounce of muscle they had and then only managed to push the Tau back into captured Imperial territory before leaving. When the Chapter Master of the Ultra Marines has to personally step in and ask for assistance you aren't a "minor" threat to the Imperium.

Also, the "backwater" world of Taros was a planet destined to be a resource planet for a forge world, a massive loss to the IoM.

Tau forces might not be knocking on Earth's doorstep, but they are a force to be reckoned with in the Eastern Fringe.

Taros is not a "massive loss" for the Imperium. If they cared about it they would have sent more than a dozen regiments. There was a war because an acountant noticed a clerical disparity. It's a backwater.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

BeefCakeSoup wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

Uhlan wrote:I'll bet that when the new Tau codex comes out we'll read "newly" discovered details about Tau tactics and victories at the expense of the Imperium. Maybe even some really scary Tau CC. If there is any race other than the Tyranids who can adapt and over come it's the Tau.

That's wishfull thinking at best. The only world Tau took is backwather worlds with no millitary at all and with not more than 15.000.000 citizens.
Like taking a minor Pacific island from USSR.

Wait what?

You do realize the Tau invasion got so bad Calgar had to ask for a dozen Space Marine Chapters to hold back the Tau expansions. They then pushed forward with every ounce of muscle they had and then only managed to push the Tau back into captured Imperial territory before leaving. When the Chapter Master of the Ultra Marines has to personally step in and ask for assistance you aren't a "minor" threat to the Imperium.

Also, the "backwater" world of Taros was a planet destined to be a resource planet for a forge world, a massive loss to the IoM.

Tau forces might not be knocking on Earth's doorstep, but they are a force to be reckoned with in the Eastern Fringe.

Taros is not a "massive loss" for the Imperium. If they cared about it they would have sent more than a dozen regiments. There was a war because an acountant noticed a clerical disparity. It's a backwater.

To an Empire that cannot muster its full weight anymore, the forces sent were rather significant. In comparison to any other front, they were on par with other major battles across the IoM. The losses suffered were also significant, as even a single Titan falling usually ends up with someone being blindfolded and shot for stupidity.

Where is this bit about "the Tau invasion got so bad Calgar had to ask for a dozen Space Marine Chapters to hold back the Tau expansions" coming from?

I can't really recall much fluff for either, but if I recall right the difference in gameplay stats at least for a Manta and a Warlord Titan are not that big, the Manta being 2,000 points and the Warlord being 2,500.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

Uhlan wrote:I'll bet that when the new Tau codex comes out we'll read "newly" discovered details about Tau tactics and victories at the expense of the Imperium. Maybe even some really scary Tau CC. If there is any race other than the Tyranids who can adapt and over come it's the Tau.

That's wishfull thinking at best. The only world Tau took is backwather worlds with no millitary at all and with not more than 15.000.000 citizens.
Like taking a minor Pacific island from USSR.

Wait what?

You do realize the Tau invasion got so bad Calgar had to ask for a dozen Space Marine Chapters to hold back the Tau expansions. They then pushed forward with every ounce of muscle they had and then only managed to push the Tau back into captured Imperial territory before leaving. When the Chapter Master of the Ultra Marines has to personally step in and ask for assistance you aren't a "minor" threat to the Imperium.

Also, the "backwater" world of Taros was a planet destined to be a resource planet for a forge world, a massive loss to the IoM.

Tau forces might not be knocking on Earth's doorstep, but they are a force to be reckoned with in the Eastern Fringe.

I don't know where this bit about the Space Marines comes from, but the loss of Taros was hardly a massive loss to the IoM. It is just one of millions of planets, it won't be (and wasn't) missed. In fact, I can't find any indication at all that Taros was to become anything other than what it was, a minor backwater world that exported mined ores.

I do agree that the Tau are being underrated here, which was not the intent of me posting this thread (rather it was just to discuss how they could take down bigger Titans...).

Depends how you look at it. Most of the Tau haters are underrating them. The Tau fanboys seem to be drastically overrating them. I think you put it best though, regional threat.

Brother Coa wrote:

And Tau barely took down 1 Warhound.
They will need 3 Space Battle Ships to take down 1 Emperor

Barely? yeah right... In Savage Scars Tau had no trouble bringing down a warhound with a couple of skyrays firing seeker missiles. In the Taros Campaign, it only took a single tigershark a single pass to take out a warhound in what was effectively a single shot. Thats not barely.

Have you read the book at all?
Got the impression youre either going from hearsay or can't remember, so may I fill in the blanks?

- Tau ambushed a single warhound, one who scouted forwrd without any support.
- ambushers were flushed out, and titans of any sort moved with support from now on
- Tau attempted to swarm the Titans in dense terrain with hundreds of suit teams.
- suit teams were swatted like flies, because the princeps learned not to underestimate their opponents.
- imperium was low on air support, but had enough AA support to keep the skies clear.

I don't recall the swarm part, I'll take your word for it. I recall there being a part in the book where its reported that the other battlegroups had encountered similar Tau defenses to what the main character experienced, and several other titans were reported destroyed as a result.

Kanluwen wrote:Where is this bit about "the Tau invasion got so bad Calgar had to ask for a dozen Space Marine Chapters to hold back the Tau expansions" coming from?

Space Marine Codex 5th Edition

Zeist Campaign - Tau began growing to the point where they were anticipated to double their holdings in 50 years with enough resources to become a major threat on the EF.

Calgar sent out a call for assistance to various Chapters for help pushing the Tau back. Boatloads of Marines from various Chapters rolled up to drop the hammer, lead by Siccarius, the Captain many believe will replace Calgar, they pushed the Tau back. Point being, when Calgar has to step in, ask for help, then use his best Captain with a boatload of Marines in support you are a damn big threat.

Just sayin

Edit: Here's a better question, how many Tau worlds are in Imperial hands?

~zero~

How many SYSTEMS are in Tau hands?

DG - 1
Staging Area for Zeist Campaign - 1

And unless anything suggests otherwise, Taros and its system fell to the Tau. So perhaps another 1?

So about 3 we know of vs a handful of bloody reclamations like Nimbosa where the IoM got spanked to the last man twice and Lagan which is well... Lagan. If Tau aren't a threat, it's because the IoM doesn't want anyone to know they are getting wrecked in almost every major fight and have utterly lost the ideology war.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

BeefCakeSoup wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

Uhlan wrote:I'll bet that when the new Tau codex comes out we'll read "newly" discovered details about Tau tactics and victories at the expense of the Imperium. Maybe even some really scary Tau CC. If there is any race other than the Tyranids who can adapt and over come it's the Tau.

That's wishfull thinking at best. The only world Tau took is backwather worlds with no millitary at all and with not more than 15.000.000 citizens.
Like taking a minor Pacific island from USSR.

Wait what?

You do realize the Tau invasion got so bad Calgar had to ask for a dozen Space Marine Chapters to hold back the Tau expansions. They then pushed forward with every ounce of muscle they had and then only managed to push the Tau back into captured Imperial territory before leaving. When the Chapter Master of the Ultra Marines has to personally step in and ask for assistance you aren't a "minor" threat to the Imperium.

Also, the "backwater" world of Taros was a planet destined to be a resource planet for a forge world, a massive loss to the IoM.

Tau forces might not be knocking on Earth's doorstep, but they are a force to be reckoned with in the Eastern Fringe.

Taros is not a "massive loss" for the Imperium. If they cared about it they would have sent more than a dozen regiments. There was a war because an acountant noticed a clerical disparity. It's a backwater.

To an Empire that cannot muster its full weight anymore, the forces sent were rather significant. In comparison to any other front, they were on par with other major battles across the IoM. The losses suffered were also significant, as even a single Titan falling usually ends up with someone being blindfolded and shot for stupidity.

Taros was a backwater. It was one of many planets tagged as resource-gatherers for a forgeworld, because a three thousand year old survey report indicated that it would be able to sustain increased tithing, which was required while the Imperium was gearing up for an actual major conflict during the run-up to the Thirteenth Black Crusade.

That's the thing about the Imperium mustering its full weight. It could swat the Tau like flies... if it didn't have to worry about endless armies of infinite evil spilling out of the Eye of Terror, or all-devouring swarms of biological killing machines, or the waves after waves after waves of orks out to destroy anything capable of shooting back.

We don't actually know that the Tiger Shark took the Warhound out in a single pass. Just that a Tiger Shark made a pass--and as I've said before, the Tau had to pull air support from other areas to protect the Tiger Shark. I also hate to say this again though, but Andy Hoare is to the Tau what Graham McNeill is to the Ultramarines.

And "a couple of Skyrays firing Seeker Missiles" is 16-24 missiles dependent on if it's 2 or 3 Skyrays. That's nothing to sneeze at.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

BeefCakeSoup wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

Uhlan wrote:I'll bet that when the new Tau codex comes out we'll read "newly" discovered details about Tau tactics and victories at the expense of the Imperium. Maybe even some really scary Tau CC. If there is any race other than the Tyranids who can adapt and over come it's the Tau.

That's wishfull thinking at best. The only world Tau took is backwather worlds with no millitary at all and with not more than 15.000.000 citizens.
Like taking a minor Pacific island from USSR.

Wait what?

You do realize the Tau invasion got so bad Calgar had to ask for a dozen Space Marine Chapters to hold back the Tau expansions. They then pushed forward with every ounce of muscle they had and then only managed to push the Tau back into captured Imperial territory before leaving. When the Chapter Master of the Ultra Marines has to personally step in and ask for assistance you aren't a "minor" threat to the Imperium.

Also, the "backwater" world of Taros was a planet destined to be a resource planet for a forge world, a massive loss to the IoM.

Tau forces might not be knocking on Earth's doorstep, but they are a force to be reckoned with in the Eastern Fringe.

Taros is not a "massive loss" for the Imperium. If they cared about it they would have sent more than a dozen regiments. There was a war because an acountant noticed a clerical disparity. It's a backwater.

To an Empire that cannot muster its full weight anymore, the forces sent were rather significant. In comparison to any other front, they were on par with other major battles across the IoM. The losses suffered were also significant, as even a single Titan falling usually ends up with someone being blindfolded and shot for stupidity.

What are you talking about? When the Imperium sends a small force its like 100 regiments. The Damocles Gulf Crusade is an example of when the Imperium gives a damn. That was a minor crusade and it almost wiped out the Tau.

Kanluwen wrote:Where is this bit about "the Tau invasion got so bad Calgar had to ask for a dozen Space Marine Chapters to hold back the Tau expansions" coming from?

Zeist campaign were Calgar ask for help to hold on Tau expansion. Don't worry we kicked their grey little but's there...

Brother Coa wrote:For now Tau can't do a squat to bigger Titans then Warhound ( Warhound don't even have Void Shields ).

They would use mantas and Tiger Sharks ( the fact that they used space ship to bring down 1 scout Titan tells us something ), but they would need a lot more of them to bring down 1 Reaver Titan. But if Tau would advance into Imperial space in sort of some bigger force their main problem wouldn't be Titans - bur Imperial Guard and Space Marines.

For example take Taros numbers, increase them by 10x, add some well trained and good equipped Guard Regiment ( Krieg or Cadians with Vanquishers and Baneblades ) and 2 or 3 Space Marine chapters with full force ( 5 to 6 companies each with vehicles ) and any Tau force wouldn't stand a chance ( in fact forget that, Black Templars recapture Nimbosa system relatively easy with not more than 1000 marines ).

From Tau point of view, they still don't know the true size of the Imperium and consider Human a minor race that can be conquered easily. We are still waiting to see what will be with Tau if they face full invasion from some other race ( Orks, Tyranids, Necrons, Chaos... ) and what will happened with Commander Farsight who tell Ethereals to f*** themselves and created his own little empire on a border with the Imperium.

Tau fans - your turn to troll.......

The Guard units involved on Taros were all well-trained and veteran, see: Elysians, Cadians, Tallarn. And a thousand strong marine force is stupidly strong from an in-universe perspective, almost as strong as plot armor

Kanluwen wrote:We don't actually know that the Tiger Shark took the Warhound out in a single pass. Just that a Tiger Shark made a pass--and as I've said before, the Tau had to pull air support from other areas to protect the Tiger Shark. I also hate to say this again though, but Andy Hoare is to the Tau what Graham McNeill is to the Ultramarines.

And "a couple of Skyrays firing Seeker Missiles" is 16-24 missiles dependent on if it's 2 or 3 Skyrays. That's nothing to sneeze at.

Don't forget that they use space shuttle to bring it down ( by putting space ship weapons on it ). If nothing else Tau can find solution in any battle ( like using Kroot rifles against Gorgon ). I bet that they use Manta and Tigershark to bring Void shields down and then they use Skyrays to soften it up for a final Tigershark blow.

And those missiles are not strong to penetrate Void shields ( even those weak as Warhound ones ) am I right?