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Seriously.... week of terror? Throw a man a bone here!

Ah yes very good.

But seriously, not been on Dakka in yonks, and this either something that's entirely passed me by, or is something I have heard about with a dramatic name.

New to me as well, really gives the word hyperbole a whole new dimension.

As for the OP, Half Year announcements are due late November, with a report to follow.

The press would have called it someting like Finecast Gate
or Plastiresin Gate.

I like the idea of gates made out of Finecast plastic resin.
Mom:Honey, how many times have I told you not to swing on the gate?
Kid: But Mommy, it's sooo bouncy!
*swingboing swingboing*

Sounds fun, me want to play too!

Ah, so not so much dramatic, as melodramatic.

Thank you!

I still enjoy GW games but if a box of tactical marines costs 200$ in 15 years, thats when i sell my collection and retire to the bahamas. I just sold my nids to a fellow from Austrailia ( because of what Robbin Cruddycrap did to the Dex) and he said the prices out there were rediculous.

They seem to be feeling around blindly for a way to bump their profit margin. Dreadfleet looks like their attempt at stealing a little of spartan games glory, Space marine looks to be an effort to put a foot into a new avenue of merchandise. Next up, Emperor enemies brand toilet paper. Wipe your butt with the faces of the imperiums greatest enemies. No Joke. I saw sticky monkey talkin about it ...

And they are expanding into new territories, namely China (Shanghai opens this month according to WD) and Russia.

The "Week of Terror" was a series of decisions a few months back that all kind of occured at roughly the same time, that set off a flurry of negative feelings here. Finecast (with the early miscasts), the southern hemisphere embargo, and at least one other thing.

I dont' remember much, because it didn't affect me too much. That said, since I'm capable of understanding that some people could view GW in a negative light, I'm at least familiar with it.

The annual price increase was implemented around the same time. On top of which the cost of the Finecast models was more than the old metal models.

OK if no one else is going to write, sorry but I couldn't let that one slip despite being up to my eyes at the moment

Mr Mystery wrote:Ah yes very good.

But seriously, not been on Dakka in yonks, and this either something that's entirely passed me by, or is something I have heard about with a dramatic name.

In a nutshell:
- Switching to a cheaper material while simultaneously raising prices.
- Banning sales to RoW via internet sellers. This has seen a massive cost increase for players in some regions (Australia/NZ), thanks to a ridiculous and completely unwarranted interpretation of old exchange rates, or made it impossible to buy GW products in others (such as my own, South Korea for instance). A large percentage of the collective moans were from this demographic. Mark Wells compounded the problem by labelling all internet sellers 'free loaders' (his words), and claiming it was for the good of growing the hobby in RoW regions. Weeks later, 4 official GW stores close in Japan.
- The usual perennial price increase, sometimes as much as 25%, combining with previous policies of reducing number of plastic miniatures in each kit (IG boxes, WFB orcs etc.)
- The teething problems with Finecast. Appalling quality control, one of the UK's biggest internet retailers publicly admonishes Finecast and stops selling it, while at the same time GW promotes it as being an accomplishment on a par with the moon landings and heralding a new dawn for the industry. Anyone who has owned Resin miniatures from any number of other manufacturers (Studio McVey being a good example) knows differently. Numerous photoshopped banners of the 'Finecast' logo appear in people's banners.
- Putting new releases under lock and key until weeks before they go on sale, making WD the sole avenue for new information. It might have worked had GW had the monopoly, and their customers been like Timmy at Christmas, waiting outside Scrooges house in the snow for 10 hours hoping a half chewed piece of turkey gristle would be thrown out of the window, but unfortunately it is not the case. Compared to the likes of Privateer Press and Mantic it seems positively archaic, both of the latter using the internet and all of it's media to push their new releases as much as possible. See again the 'secrets' policy, if GW have a marketing department they need more than a $50 a year budget.
- Withdrawing WD from other sales points, such as WHSmiths and other newsagents. Then making it so subscribers receive their issues after they go on sale in shops.
- The smackdown by GW Legal on the producers of a 'Lamasu head' (in amongst other issues). I would so love some sorcerer from Ancient Sumeria to return from the grave, and sue GW for their unauthorised use of their own concept.
- GW using it's declining profits to make a payment to shareholders, a chief beneficiary of which being Mr. Kirby who both called for the payout and will most likely be retiring in the next couple of years.

All of the above happened in the space of a few weeks, leading to a 'hatred overload' (somewhat justified) and at least one 30 page thread here on Dakka, in amongst numerous other threads and blog posts throughout the internet.

And I think it re-ignited some of the passions from previous, warm-up exercises prepared by GW, which were:
- The switch to one man stores, hundreds of GW workers losing their jobs (in the light of above shareholder payment).
- The movement to new rules and releases being entirely motivated by the sales division. Every Nid player have a Carnifex in their collection? OK, lets nerf it and produce a new model that every player must buy (Trygon). WFB, infantry is where the money is at, lets change the rules so it favours large blocks of infantry, and run massive battle reports and army features that show at least 3000pts a side. This is the only way to play.
- Not releasing models for codecies/army books, the slow release of these books, perceived issues with game balance. I won't go into issues of the game and rules here, which I feel are more subjective than the big white elephant (elephants) in the room, in the form of the points I listed above.


To be honest I'm pretty sure you posted in some of these threads Mr Mystery, and were quite brave in the face of overwhelming numbers, but just in case I was wrong on that score here are some links to these threads (as well as some blogs) which catch the gist of it:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/383298.page

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/369439.page
In amongst many 'I wrote a letter to GW' threads.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/377660.page

Blogs, from a five minute search:

Some funny ones first:
http://thefrontlinegamer.blogspot.com/2011/07/are-you-in-abusive-relationship.html

http://thefrontlinegamer.blogspot.com/2011/06/welcome-to-finecast-month-warning-may.html

http://thefrontlinegamer.blogspot.com/2011/05/games-workshop-kills-kittens-and.html

Quite an informative one on this blog 'The back 40k' (quite famous amongst the wargaming community):

http://theback40k.blogspot.com/2011/04/help-kirby-is-eating-our-hobby.html

http://eatersofworlds.blogspot.com/2011/05/oh-games-workshop.html

There are dozens more. In conclusion I would like to say that in all my time of being a fan of GW I have never seen such an outpouring as I did during that time. Personally speaking, I had no problem with the company at all before, as anyone who knows my posts from other blogs and forums will attest to. Now, I can't purchase GW products at a reasonable costs thanks to the RoW embargo, and have essentially been elbowed out of the hobby. But, it was approaching my threshold of what I was prepared to pay in any case, so maybe it's for the best. And fortunately for wargamers in general, there are plenty more options out there these days. We can make concious decisions as consumers, in light of any one of the points above, and take our money elsewhere.

^^^ that was an epic post, and a good read to boot!

Hats off sir!

I was going to comment on this thread, but Sarpedon's avatar just made me forget what I was going to say. Now if you'll excuse me, I need some brain bleach.

Wassup Laughingman? Why you no like?!

On the subject of Australian prices etc, I can kind of understand why some are bent out of shape. But there is still a fair amount of hyperbole going round about it. What the bloke wrote is indeed correct. GW as a company depends upon vendors doubling as gaming venues. Like it or not, this is a fact. Sure, the prices seem out of whack, but when comparing to UK prices, many seem to ignore the inevitable cost of humping that stuff right round the world. Not going to claim to be up on Freight Shipping, but I don't believe it to be especially cheap. So it's not exactly the whole 'they are money grabbing' thing.

For instance, Web Stores pay GW wholesale something around 60% (not from personal knowledge, but this is what I've heard bandied around) wherever they may be. Now, if that store is in Oz, one assumes they'd pay 60% Oz Retail, due to shipping costs. But UK sellers just pay 60% of the rrp. So where is the sense in GW embargoing UK sellers from flogging to the rest of the world? They very thing people accuse them of would go against this. As long as the units are sold, who gives a monkey's who sells them and where the buyer is yes?

Not saying the above is 100% accurate, but it certainly goes a lot further than many GW Conpiracy Theorists bother.

So, yeah. A lot of this stuff, from my perspective, is storm in a teacup. Is a silent customer a happy customer? Kind of hard to quantify. But I can pretty much guarantee you that those making the most noise are in the minority.

What conspiracy theory?

Oh, sorry. I was trying out a meaningless label in response to those flung in my direction.

But yeah, Conspiracy Theorist. The sort of person who leaps from logic to illogic in the blink of an eye, bellowing FANBOI! at all those who disagree. Not so much yourself there though.

Mr Mystery wrote:Oh, sorry. I was trying out a meaningless label in response to those flung in my direction.

But yeah, Conspiracy Theorist. The sort of person who leaps from logic to illogic in the blink of an eye, bellowing FANBOI! at all those who disagree. Not so much yourself there though.

I don't think it's conspiracy thinking to wonder why the "shipping to australia" mark-up is so much higher on GW products than on any other consumer good. Or why third party vendors in the UK can ship there economically while GW istself can't.

One way or another, GW is telling the nation to pay a 50% premium, for no discernable reason.

Pacific wrote:

*Detailed and concise post*

Exalted and well said. If the Jan. report shows negative sales, that's three straight reports with negative/no growth--I wonder how many cost cutting measures they have left.

Polonius wrote:

Mr Mystery wrote:Oh, sorry. I was trying out a meaningless label in response to those flung in my direction.

But yeah, Conspiracy Theorist. The sort of person who leaps from logic to illogic in the blink of an eye, bellowing FANBOI! at all those who disagree. Not so much yourself there though.

I don't think it's conspiracy thinking to wonder why the "shipping to australia" mark-up is so much higher on GW products than on any other consumer good. Or why third party vendors in the UK can ship there economically while GW istself can't.

One way or another, GW is telling the nation to pay a 50% premium, for no discernable reason.

There's the rub. Other retailers - those who don't make anywhere near as much money as GW - can ship items to Australia at a reasonable price. Maelstrom, for one, can ship there items for free.

There's no reason for GW to be what they are in certain parts of the world.

Don't know, but I'm sure there'll be a blurb about how while GW hasn't shown real growth, the "state of the Hobby is healthy" and they know exactly what they need to do to begin growth. Certainly there will be "surplus cash" that they "don't know what to do with" so that will mean another dividend payout.

You know, the same gak they've said in every report in the past and will probably continue to say in every report for the next ten years or so when they lock their doors and scratch their heads, befuddled as to how their brilliant business plan could possibly have failed.


EDIT: this was in response to AgeOfEgos. Also, I admit I don't understand the stock market and investment very well, but when your company is reporting a decrease in sales and profits and is instituting cost-cutting measures, isn't that the exact situation in which you should be investing in methods to increase profitability and not paying dividends? I mean, to me that says "We're not really making money, and we have some extra cash, but rather than invest it back into the company to institute methods and practices that will increase profitability... uh, here's a dividend."

Mr Mystery wrote:So, yeah. A lot of this stuff, from my perspective, is storm in a teacup. Is a silent customer a happy customer? Kind of hard to quantify. But I can pretty much guarantee you that those making the most noise are in the minority.

Killkrazy has an excellent post (I believe in the 2011 July Financial Report thread) where he calculates, in an entirely reasonable and intuitive manner, that GW's player base may have decreased by as much as 1/3 in the last 10 years.

If the disgruntled minority truly is a minority, it may be because lots of like-minded souls have left.

Which is entirely to be expected. I mean, if I go off a product, I have a tendency to stop buying it.

sourclams wrote:

Mr Mystery wrote:So, yeah. A lot of this stuff, from my perspective, is storm in a teacup. Is a silent customer a happy customer? Kind of hard to quantify. But I can pretty much guarantee you that those making the most noise are in the minority.

Killkrazy has an excellent post (I believe in the 2011 July Financial Report thread) where he calculates, in an entirely reasonable and intuitive manner, that GW's player base may have decreased by as much as 1/3 in the last 10 years.

If the disgruntled minority truly is a minority, it may be because lots of like-minded souls have left.

If prices and army sizes have both gone up dramatically, while sales have stayed flat... it's hard to imagine anything other than a decent sized exodus. Made more dramatic by the decent sized population of specialist gamers that are now virutally extinct.

I think we're rapidly approaching new thread territory here gents. Anyone care to do the honours? I cannot be arsed, on account of any thread I start seems to attract nowt but cat calls.

Mr Mystery wrote:GW as a company depends upon vendors doubling as gaming venues. Like it or not, this is a fact.

Except it's not. Not everywhere, anyway. As I've pointed out before, the majority of Australian stockists are not gaming stores, and do not have gaming space. Those few who do, from what I've seen over the years, generally have at best a handful of tables. And GW stores themselves. aside from the couple of battle bunkers, likewise have very little gaming space... and that will get worse with the shift to one-man stores.

Most Australian gamers do not play in stores, and never have.

Added to which, a large part of the basis for complaint over the 'online stores in another country do nothing to grow the hobby' claim from GW was that while they've banned independents from selling internationally, they're still doing it themselves...

Sure, the prices seem out of whack, but when comparing to UK prices, many seem to ignore the inevitable cost of humping that stuff right round the world. Not going to claim to be up on Freight Shipping, but I don't believe it to be especially cheap. So it's not exactly the whole 'they are money grabbing' thing.

Nobody has ignored the cost of freight. Exactly the opposite, in fact... the issue where Australian prices are concerned is simply that they were set back when the Australian dollar was performing much worse on the global front, and have never been adjusted to compensate for the change. So because of the exchange rates, shipping overseas product to Australia has become cheaper... but we're still paying twice as much as the rest of the world.

So, yeah. A lot of this stuff, from my perspective, is storm in a teacup. Is a silent customer a happy customer? Kind of hard to quantify. But I can pretty much guarantee you that those making the most noise are in the minority.

Those making the most noise are almost always the minority. That doesn't mean that everyone else is happy. Most people don't complain publicly when they turn away from a given company... they just start buying elsewhere.

Hence why I stated the silent 'majority' is impossible to quantify. Being silent and that.

Mr Mystery wrote:Hence why I stated the silent 'majority' is impossible to quantify. Being silent and that.

The majority of a shrinking pie is still part of a shinking pie.

It's like saying "The majority of the people currently at this party aren't getting ready to leave." It ignores how many already left...

Which is great, if you knew how many people were at the party to begin with.

Mr Mystery wrote:Which is great, if you knew how many people were at the party to begin with.

Well, we have a clue how much everybody at the party spent ten years ago, and how much they spend now. Given that the price of a ticket has gone up, and the gross proceeds are roughly the same, I feel comfortable at least making a reasoned guess.

Would ten years ago include the LotR boom? Woring it back, I'm fairly sure it was 2001 Fellowship came out. Though I could be wrong.

Is this factored in as well?