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Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Scott, some of us think GW behave badly towards customers. as extensively detailed above and elsewhere.
Some of us say screw you too GW we are of to sunnier pastures.
It isn't hard

Why not just do it? Why get on here telling everyone about it? When I have a problem with a company's attitude I just don't buy from them, I don't go and complain about it publicly. (see the absence of my anti-Apple threads in off-topic)

I don't comment on the quality or otherwise of the games, occassionaly will remark on the fluff and will offer opinion about models.

GW policies? Open season.

You don't want to hear people complain?
Do not go anywhere near the internet, never listen to the radio, read a paper or watch the telly.
Am sure there is a remote himalayan monastary that will be ideal.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:I don't comment on the quality or otherwise of the games, occassionaly will remark on the fluff and will offer opinion about models.
GW policies? Open season.

You still haven't answered the question.

You've said "screw you too GW we are of to sunnier pastures". So why are you still complaining about their policies when you've removed yourself from those policies?

Because we are still entitled to have and express an opinion on such matters.

Scott-S6 wrote:
You've said "screw you too GW we are of to sunnier pastures". So why are you still complaining about their policies when you've removed yourself from those policies?

Probably because he cares enough about the background and models---he ultimately hopes they choose another direction. This is a miniatures forum, it is hardly inappropriate to express your disappointment in a miniatures company you care about (Provided it follows Dakka posting guidelines).

By that same vein, having to hear someone's whining for the umpteenth time--in every single thread devoted to the subject is downright obnoxious.
It's no better than spamming with jpeg memes.

Although a few of the posts here were in direct response to Mr Mystery asking 'What problems with GW?'

So, therefore it's valid I think. And I think the number of complaint threads has gone down a little bit over the last few weeks...

Quite right Pacific and so too AoE

Again, someone that has a differing opinion is whining/whinging?

you see this in the OP:

I mean.

-World embargo.
-Mantic comming up with more lines and now scify, though this is still in the making.
-Warmahordes gaining popularity. (not my coup of tea size wise, each to his own).

With all this they are bound to take a hit, so when do we get numbers on that, and what will be the first real figures after the world embargo. I mean, the period right after, they are bound to have some increase sales, and get a considerable impact the one after.

You must surely know what to expect by now.



I still like that coup de tete bit!

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:
Again, someone that has a differing opinion is whining/whinging?

Really? Where did I say that?

Oh right. I didn't.

The people who come in to have a whine about GW's business practices, in every bloody thread from a release to rumours about an upcoming release, are contributing nothing. That's the very definition of spam, and should not be tolerated.

You want to have at GW's business practices or piss and moan about how they mistreat you, the customer? Make a thread for it.

By that same vein, having to hear someone's whining for the umpteenth time--in every single thread devoted to the subject is downright obnoxious.
It's no better than spamming with jpeg memes.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:

By that same vein, having to hear someone's whining for the umpteenth time--in every single thread devoted to the subject is downright obnoxious.
It's no better than spamming with jpeg memes.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Again, someone that has a differing opinion is whining/whinging?

Nowhere is "differing opinions=whining" mentioned.

Pacific wrote:Although a few of the posts here were in direct response to Mr Mystery asking 'What problems with GW?'

So, therefore it's valid I think. And I think the number of complaint threads has gone down a little bit over the last few weeks...

Hello petal.

Please go re-read my initial post. I was asking what specifically the meldramatic title 'Week of Terror' was actually referring to. Rather a different kettle of monkeys from what you, and indeed others, have implied. But hey, nowt like a good childish dig at someone when you cannot be arsed to read what they've actually written, eh?

It is implicit.
Whenever someone on Dakka uses the word whining it is always in regard to a comment to which they differ.

I assumed that the "whining" you were referring to in the context of your reply were those comments expressing disapproval of GW's policies, and with which you disagreed.

If I assumed incorrectly and you were referring to the whining about whining then I wholeheartedly apologise for the midunderstanding.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:It is implicit.
Whenever someone on Dakka uses the word whining it is always in regard to a comment to which they differ.

'Whining' is used to describe any kind of complaining commentary that is done in a self-pitying way.
I can say 'whining' and not have to 'disagree' with the person on a topic.

I assumed that the "whining" you were referring to in the context of your reply were those comments expressing disapproval of GW's policies, and with which you disagreed.

The "whining" I'm referring to is the constant, annoying drivel talking about the prices, Finecast, etc within threads where they have no business being in there. In my opinion, it's no different than the juvenile antics of those who post the Pumbagor image by itself in discussions about GW's business practices and think themselves hilarious.

If I assumed incorrectly and you were referring to the whining about whining then I wholeheartedly apologise for the midunderstanding.

You're partially right in that it is some comments where it expresses disapproval with GW's policies, but it still doesn't change the fact that these complaints have no business being in threads about new releases.

While the constant whining and complaining gets old, it's easily ignored. Unlike the drama caused by constant attacks against the people doing the whining.

Which, ironically, do more to turn threads into arguments about GW as good or evil than the anything else.

Good job!

In which case Kanners the yellow triangle is your friend, as in those cases you are correct imho

Why try to think of something bespoke to say when an off the jpeg picture will suffice?

Mr Mystery wrote:

Pacific wrote:Although a few of the posts here were in direct response to Mr Mystery asking 'What problems with GW?'

So, therefore it's valid I think. And I think the number of complaint threads has gone down a little bit over the last few weeks...

Hello petal.

Please go re-read my initial post. I was asking what specifically the meldramatic title 'Week of Terror' was actually referring to. Rather a different kettle of monkeys from what you, and indeed others, have implied. But hey, nowt like a good childish dig at someone when you cannot be arsed to read what they've actually written, eh?

I'm sorry if that's how it came across Mr. Mystery, I certainly didn't intend it to be a childish dig!

Anyway, this is going in circles now, I made a rather large post earlier on with everything I had to say so I will move on.

If something is just plain wrong you don't keep quiet about it and hope it gets better. Regardless if you still buy or don't buy GW stuff you still have a right to an opinion. If nobody 'whined' on any forum nothing would change. The general consensus is that GW people use this very website, consider if everybody towed the party line and did not voice their true opinion; I suspect that GW would be charging even more. I reserve the right to speak out or whine and don't really give a monkeys what GW supporters et al think.

If something is just plain wrong, you don't shout about it inside of inappropriate venues.
You don't complain about conspiracy theorists at a football match, for example. You can have all the opinions you want, but don't bring them where they do not belong.

Kanluwen wrote:If something is just plain wrong, you don't shout about it inside of inappropriate venues.
You don't complain about conspiracy theorists at a football match, for example. You can have all the opinions you want, but don't bring them where they do not belong.

And how is bringing your opinion into every thread any better? If a post is off topic or inappropriate, report it. Let the mods handle it.

By harping on this in every thread, you are actually more inappropriate, because the whining is at least tangentially on topic.

I dont see what all the problem with the people complaining about a company.

On topic

I know this January or close to it, they will release their report, but this one will be influenced by the "about to get embargoed" panic, which i can only imagine will have drastically inflated their numbers, we need the NEXT one, when the NEW statusquo has stabilized already, then we will know how much they have shot themselves really.


Off topic...

They sold you a product.

They spat in your face.

You make sure everybody who can be a potential customer knows how you feel about it.

Same thing would apply if people were recommending the product, it just happens that is not often the case with this company. This applies to every product in every industry, why should this be any different. If the thread were just about the quality of Failcast for instance, then i would consider it out of place, but not on posts like this.

Polonius wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:If something is just plain wrong, you don't shout about it inside of inappropriate venues.
You don't complain about conspiracy theorists at a football match, for example. You can have all the opinions you want, but don't bring them where they do not belong.

And how is bringing your opinion into every thread any better? If a post is off topic or inappropriate, report it. Let the mods handle it.

Yes, because I clearly don't do that.

Oh wait a minute. I do. And those posts more often than not are left alone, which ends up with some twit quoting it pages later and adding a snarky "+1!" dragging the entire thread off into the same freaking argument again and again and again.

By harping on this in every thread, you are actually more inappropriate, because the whining is at least tangentially on topic.

Yes. Whining about a company's policies in a thread about a new shiny freaking model is clearly more on topic than whining about the whiners in a thread started by a whiner.

Thank God we've sorted that out. Where would we be without your calm, collected logic Polonius?

Kanluwen wrote:By that same vein, having to hear someone's whining for the umpteenth time--in every single thread devoted to the subject is downright obnoxious. It's no better than spamming with jpeg memes.

Any more obnoxious than those that leap to their defence no matter the context in every thread they can?

Kanluwen wrote:

Polonius wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:If something is just plain wrong, you don't shout about it inside of inappropriate venues.
You don't complain about conspiracy theorists at a football match, for example. You can have all the opinions you want, but don't bring them where they do not belong.

And how is bringing your opinion into every thread any better? If a post is off topic or inappropriate, report it. Let the mods handle it.

Yes, because I clearly don't do that.

Oh wait a minute. I do. And those posts more often than not are left alone, which ends up with some twit quoting it pages later and adding a snarky "+1!" dragging the entire thread off into the same freaking argument again and again and again.

So you are basically saying that you feel that either:
1) Your method of dealing with violations of forum policy are better, or
2) your interpretation of forum policy are more correct

I can assure you, I've tried both. You don't bet against the house on either of 'em.

By harping on this in every thread, you are actually more inappropriate, because the whining is at least tangentially on topic.

Yes. Whining about a company's policies in a thread about a new shiny freaking model is clearly more on topic than whining about the whiners in a thread started by a whiner.

Thank God we've sorted that out. Where would we be without your calm, collected logic Polonius?

Actually, it is. No matter what the topic of a GW thread is, discussions about GW policy, especially if they somehow relate even tangentially to the OP, are at least somewhat on topic.

Raising the same argument in every thread, in which you declare "you are all wrong about how to talk about minis!" has really nothing to do with the OP, in any thread other than "how should we be talking about minis."

The fact that you would prefer threads turn into flamefests between you and others, rather than allow harmless whining, shows that your priorities are not in tone of conversation. You want the fight, man. And that's just sad.

Polonius wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Polonius wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:If something is just plain wrong, you don't shout about it inside of inappropriate venues.
You don't complain about conspiracy theorists at a football match, for example. You can have all the opinions you want, but don't bring them where they do not belong.

And how is bringing your opinion into every thread any better? If a post is off topic or inappropriate, report it. Let the mods handle it.

Yes, because I clearly don't do that.

Oh wait a minute. I do. And those posts more often than not are left alone, which ends up with some twit quoting it pages later and adding a snarky "+1!" dragging the entire thread off into the same freaking argument again and again and again.

So you are basically saying that you feel that either:
1) Your method of dealing with violations of forum policy are better, or
2) your interpretation of forum policy are more correct

I can assure you, I've tried both. You don't bet against the house on either of 'em.

No, I feel that if you educate people about the fact that their behavior is annoying--they just might stop.

Of course, you have some who feel that no matter what they're unfairly victimized or because of the content, it's "justifiable".

By harping on this in every thread, you are actually more inappropriate, because the whining is at least tangentially on topic.

Yes. Whining about a company's policies in a thread about a new shiny freaking model is clearly more on topic than whining about the whiners in a thread started by a whiner.

Thank God we've sorted that out. Where would we be without your calm, collected logic Polonius?

Actually, it is. No matter what the topic of a GW thread is, discussions about GW policy, especially if they somehow relate even tangentially to the OP, are at least somewhat on topic.

No actually, it's not. Discussions about GW's sales policy, Finecast shenanigans, or latest price raises have nothing, at all, to do with rumors of a release. Not even remotely one bit to do with "on topic" and you of all people should know this.

Raising the same argument in every thread, in which you declare "you are all wrong about how to talk about minis!" has really nothing to do with the OP, in any thread other than "how should we be talking about minis."

This is one of the first times I've ever brought this up in my own recent memory, outside of the DCM forum. Link me otherwise where I've done it.

The fact that you would prefer threads turn into flamefests between you and others, rather than allow harmless whining, shows that your priorities are not in tone of conversation. You want the fight, man. And that's just sad.

Where the hell did you get that from "I don't want issues that have nothing to do with the models"?

I don't care if it's a Privateer Press, Mantic, GW, Chapterhouse, whatever company you want model release thread. It's unacceptable to have posts that amount to "I don't like the company, so I'm not buying it!" or "Your company is evil, mine loves me!". That has no business being in a thread showcasing the new releases. If you want to discuss the merits of the company, that's what Dakka Discussions is for. News and Rumours release threads are for that--news and rumours of releases with feedback/critiques of the models as we get photos of them.

If someone wants to say "This model is priced absurdly!"--that's not a problem. When it becomes "This price is absurd! How dare they spit on my face, having been a loyal customer and fan for decades!", there's a problem.

Is it really so wrong to want a higher standard of conversation?

Kanluwen wrote:Thank God we've sorted that out. Where would we be without your calm, collected logic Polonius?

I'll just leave that there, as nearly perfect example of both irony and natural comedy.

Moving on,

The biggest problem with saying "Oh, just carry on, you've made your choice stop whinging about it" is that it neglects that many of GW's problems are problems that will only ever be remedied if people become aware and are prompted to think of them. Just, for example:

-Most people are familiar with GW's annual price rises; but the fact that at the same time GW has been raising prices and cutting staff at stores and closing store locations, the management has also approved dividends putting hundreds of thousands of pounds in the pockets of people that sit on the board, including Mark Wells and Tom Kirby. Assuming the October dividend goes through , Kirby will have received well over 1 million pounds in dividend payments in the last 18 months.

Personally, I think that fact could use as much publicity as it can get, eh?

Then ask for it to be made into a sticky, don't spout it off in the middle of a thread about Forge World's newest release.

Kanluwen wrote:No, I feel that if you educate people about the fact that their behavior is annoying--they just might stop.

For that to work, they have to care enough about your opinion to take your feedback on board.

The more common reaction is going to be 'Who the hell are you to tell me how to behave?'

Is it really so wrong to want a higher standard of conversation?

Not at all. But you won't get it by just telling people not to complain, regardless of how off-topic you personally may feel those complaints to be.

It's the nature of the beast. Complaints are a part of the feedback. If you want more positive conversation, you'll get further by focusing on the positive comments and building that side of the discussion than you will by telling everyone else to shut up. All the latter does is escalate things.


And on that note, I feel that this thread has wandered far enough off the original topic, and since the question asked was answered some time ago, I think we're about done here.