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Deadshane1 wrote:I like all the bashing. Especially since noone has actually made any substantial arguements against anything the video or the idea in general talks about.

There's nothing substantial in the video to be constructive about. It doesn't say anything, there's no meat. Its just a bunch of wishy-washy, vague concepts and ideas that ultimately are impossible to achieve. Its like an essay with no body, just an intro saying how awesome it'll be and a conclusion saying how awesome the intro was.

Deadshane1 wrote:

Chowderhead wrote:Because if WW2 never happened, I would be dead, my family would be dead, my people would be dead, and everyone would be killing all non-Aryans.

So, if there was no war where people were dying....you would be dead?

Huh?

You're making no sense whatsoever.

No, it makes sense.

As much as I hate to bring up Nazis, they were doing this whole "Holocaust" thing that you may have heard of. Since Chowdah is jewish, this may have directly affected his current living status. Not unlike when Marty McFly was disappearing from the family photo.

Not that WWII was all about the Holocaust, but it's part of the picture (of the context of WWII, not the McFly family photo).

Chowderhead wrote:
Well, A. I'm Polish, so I was dead from the start if they never fled, and B. If no-one put up a fight, the Nazi's would have steamrolled Europe.

!: You weren't alive.

2: Your parents/grandparents had agency.

3: Not fighting is not the same as not fighting WWII.

dogma wrote:

Deadshane1 wrote:I like all the bashing. Especially since noone has actually made any substantial arguements against anything the video or the idea in general talks about.

Yeah, derivative humanism that is poorly explained.

I didnt find anything in the video to be poorly explained. Being that it's meant as an introduction to an idea or set of ideas...I found it to be very interesting.

If one desires more explanation....it is availible. This is a HUGE topic after all that we're talking about here.


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Blacksails wrote:There's nothing substantial in the video to be constructive about. It doesn't say anything, there's no meat. Its just a bunch of wishy-washy, vague concepts and ideas that ultimately are impossible to achieve. Its like an essay with no body, just an intro saying how awesome it'll be and a conclusion saying how awesome the intro was.

I suppose if you wanted to you could say that about any documentary.

I found this one to be full of information and intriguing ideas. Of course I watched it in it's entirety. Being that I HAVE watched it all, I find the claims of "no meat" or "not saying anything" totally false.


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ph34r wrote:
That was the most embarrassing garbage I have ever watched. As an engineer I am saddened that some people think that this is an actual, practical, effective, or even good "in theory" idea. The people who produced this video display a disappointing knowledge of science, technology, and how technological and societal advancements work.

So, as an "engineer" you prefer more violence, famine, unemployment, inequality, waste, and slavery? That's what you're saying after all, though I don't see what being an "engineer" has to do with it other than attempting to establish some sort of false authority on the subject.

I'm sorry, I'll entertain the "theory". While it may not be practical or even possible at this point in time...it's worth paying attention to. Hardly embarrassing.

Embarrassing would be saying everything is fine right now with the world, and NOT even entertaining other ideas.

Deadshane1 wrote:

ph34r wrote:That was the most embarrassing garbage I have ever watched. As an engineer I am saddened that some people think that this is an actual, practical, effective, or even good "in theory" idea. The people who produced this video display a disappointing knowledge of science, technology, and how technological and societal advancements work.

So, as an "engineer" you prefer more violence, famine, unemployment, inequality, waste, and slavery? That's what you're saying after all, though I don't see what being an "engineer" has to do with it other than attempting to establish some sort of false authority on the subject.

I'm sorry, I'll entertain the "theory".

Nice logical fallacy. I know I shouldn't entertain you with a response... but hell, it makes me laugh

The fact that you are so willing to put words in my mouth is easy for me to understand. You have no logical way to defend this clown of a production, after all how could you? What sort of knowledge of science, technology, economics, or politics do you have again?

I think the answer would be "none", but I'll do you the courtesy of explaining for yourself.

Deadshane1 wrote:While it may not be practical or even possible at this point in time...it's worth paying attention to. Hardly embarrassing.

Embarrassing would be saying everything is fine right now with the world, and NOT even entertaining other ideas.

The reason this is so embarrassing is because it's a person trying to be taken seriously, who is basically saying "what if we knew everything about our resources and planet, and could control society entirely as a given? things would be great!"

No gak they would be great, but if we could know everything about the planet and control everything about humanity there are a ton of better ideas than this lunatic has.

Deadshane1 wrote:
I didnt find anything in the video to be poorly explained. Being that it's meant as an introduction to an idea or set of ideas...I found it to be very interesting.

If one desires more explanation....it is availible. This is a HUGE topic after all that we're talking about here.

Its meant as a sales pitch, and has about as much salience.

I believe chowdah, what others are trying to say, in a kind of roundabout way is, that the guy in the video is saying that world war two should have never happened as it was a huge waste of resources, not that no one should have fought the Nazis. Does that make sense?

ph34r wrote:

Deadshane1 wrote:

ph34r wrote:That was the most embarrassing garbage I have ever watched. As an engineer I am saddened that some people think that this is an actual, practical, effective, or even good "in theory" idea. The people who produced this video display a disappointing knowledge of science, technology, and how technological and societal advancements work.

So, as an "engineer" you prefer more violence, famine, unemployment, inequality, waste, and slavery? That's what you're saying after all, though I don't see what being an "engineer" has to do with it other than attempting to establish some sort of false authority on the subject.

I'm sorry, I'll entertain the "theory".

Nice logical fallacy. I know I shouldn't entertain you with a response... but hell, it makes me laugh

I don't see how this is a fallacy. You actually said that you're saddened by this idea, or that it's even a "good" one. The idea IS at it's heart attacking the horrible states that I pointed out.

The fact that you are so willing to put words in my mouth is easy for me to understand. You have no logical way to defend this clown of a production, after all how could you? What sort of knowledge of science, technology, economics, or politics do you have again?

Probably not enough to satisfy you, I assume you have doctorates or better in all four areas?

The point is that I'm attempting to BE more informed. That's why I posted this entire thing for discussion. So far all you "as an engineer" has done to this point is scold me for having an open mind and thinking that a better and more beneficial society is possible for humanity.

No constructive info to someone who needs more facts, just "that idea's dumb and I'm embarrassed that you're being stupid for watching it."

Thanks, smart guy, for sharing your knowledge.

I think the answer would be "none", but I'll do you the courtesy of explaining for yourself.

You would be thinking wrong if you assume I have no clue on any of the areas you pointed out however. I have no desire to justify myself to you, I'm just attempting to discuss a youtube video that I found to be somewhat inspiring.

Deadshane1 wrote:While it may not be practical or even possible at this point in time...it's worth paying attention to. Hardly embarrassing.

Embarrassing would be saying everything is fine right now with the world, and NOT even entertaining other ideas.

The reason this is so embarrassing is because it's a person trying to be taken seriously, who is basically saying "what if we knew everything about our resources and planet, and could control society entirely as a given? things would be great!"

No gak they would be great, but if we could know everything about the planet and control everything about humanity there are a ton of better ideas than this lunatic has.

I guess the Wright Brothers thought it would be GREAT if they could somehow learn to get people to fly. Good thing you werent around to tell them that it was a lunatic idea....oh wait, those people were around, they ignored them....and flew.


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cptbravo wrote:I believe chowdah, what others are trying to say, in a kind of roundabout way is, that the guy in the video is saying that world war two should have never happened as it was a huge waste of resources, not that no one should have fought the Nazis. Does that make sense?

WWII is a footnote in this entire presentation. One example used. It's hardly a real issue here for discussion.

Zeitgeist, the movie series are interesting. They do a very good job of outlining all the downsides of capitalism/consumerism. The bs that is religion and the pitfalls of how the economy works. That's about where it stops being interesting though.

From that point on it always seems like some star trek nerds fantasy about resource based economy/society with no explanation of how to get from point a to point b.

Deadshane1 wrote: Probably not enough to satisfy you, I assume you have doctorates or better in all four areas?

The point is that I'm attempting to BE more informed. That's why I posted this entire thing for discussion. So far all you "as an engineer" has done to this point is scold me for having an open mind and thinking that a better and more beneficial society is possible for humanity.

You are trying to be more informed... by posting some complete nutter's video online, and hoping to learn from discussion by miniature wargamers on the internet???

Are you completely gone?

Deadshane1 wrote:You would be thinking wrong if you assume I have no clue on any of the areas you pointed out however. I have no desire to justify myself to you, I'm just attempting to discuss a youtube video that I found to be somewhat inspiring.

I think it is fair to say that one could argue that everyone has some level of "a clue" on all topics. I think you don't have "no clue". However I think you have a very low level of clue. You might even have such low amount of clue that it in fact could be considered rather than a low level of correct information, but an amount of incorrect information that outweighs the correct. I also think you have no formal "clue" on these subjects.

Deadshane1 wrote:While it may not be practical or even possible at this point in time...it's worth paying attention to. Hardly embarrassing.

There are real professionals that work their entire lives to improve the life of all humanity. They don't need to say "hey, what if we had all this magical knowledge and then changed fething everything and everyone was cool with it and ignore the massive and impossible costs of changing society in this way". This video is the equivalent of what stoned kids talk about, except it's a guy throwing out an hour of scare tactics and big words to try to trick the undereducated into believing a total redo of society is required.

Deadshane1 wrote:Embarrassing would be saying everything is fine right now with the world, and NOT even entertaining other ideas.

Okay. Instead of making videos claiming everything is gak at a fundamental level, let's work to continue solving problems. You could get an advanced education in science, and start solving problems in the world. Join me, it's fun.

Deadshane1 wrote:I guess the Wright Brothers thought it would be GREAT if they could somehow learn to get people to fly. Good thing you werent around to tell them that it was a lunatic idea....oh wait, those people were around, they ignored them....and flew.

What you are saying is exactly the opposite of what is true. Damn, that's a big swing and a miss. The Wright Brothers are exactly what is good in the world, people making inventions and solving problems and improving society. Not sitting around making scaremonger wishlisty videos from their undereducared points of view saying how everything is terrible.

Deadshane1 wrote:

cptbravo wrote:I believe chowdah, what others are trying to say, in a kind of roundabout way is, that the guy in the video is saying that world war two should have never happened as it was a huge waste of resources, not that no one should have fought the Nazis. Does that make sense?

WWII is a footnote in this entire presentation. One example used. It's hardly a real issue here for discussion.

The issue is that he is completely out of touch with reality.

So...what? They want to every nation to dissolve their borders and get all of mankind to work together to make some sort of technology based utopia? That's what I got out of that...although I admit that the video was so vague it was hard to get very much concrete things from it...

If I'm on the money...I say...Fat chance...the only way to unite all of mankind is to give it something that requires it to unite for its survival...not much else can be done that could unite the entire earth...

So basically, gamers or dakkaites in general have no business discussing real life issues? I thought that gamers were open minded and imaginative. That's what this topic is all about. I don't see how miniature gamer forums are a horrible place to discuss issues.

Ph34r, Are you a miniature wargamer? Or an engineer with an opinion on this subject? I ask b/c you're posting here on dakka...yet you think (apparently) that all mini wargamers are too stupid to discuss real issues.

I'm not saying this guy should be Emperor, I don't give a F about this guy...I just thought what he had to say was mildly interesting.

Look man, just so I can understand you, since I'm inept.

Which one(s) of these are false:

Banks rip people off
rich make money off the poor
entire political system is becoming more vague and corrupt
money is the real religion in america
the u.s. is a country of consumers
advertising is bombarding us all
WWII (while necessary) was very expensive and we dont use those same resources to better life today
Violence is way more widespread in poorer areas
Natural rescources are running out
We're NOT addressing the energy crisis

....b/c these are the things the guy's saying. So I don't see what's being made up here. None of these are new topics or things that the guy made up. George Carlin, a political activist was on here too. I know he was probably stupid according to engineers all over, but.... If all the above is incorrect...where do YOU live? I'd like to come live in engineerland.

Let go for a second the pipe-dream utopia, because thats not the entirety of the 2 and a half hours.

The point of the entire video is that we need to change or alter the current system...because they're not working.

This is just something we all need to be aware of, it's not that radical (while the utopia part may be).


I really cannot beleive that you said we should'nt discuss relevant topics here on dakka. I cannot beleive you're not being hounded on here b/c of that. Why can't you try to be an intellectual AND a gamer?

It's ridiculous.

How do banks 'rip people off'? Define 'rip people off'. They're a business. Businesses make money. And where else would I keep my money? Get paid in cash and store it all in a vault in my place?

Vague statements like 'rich make money off the poor' do nothing to add to your argument. There's no meat in it. How? Why? What is enabling them to do that? How could you possibly change it? What difference would it make?

You know what would make your arguments stronger? Facts. Numbers. Scholarly works detailing the plight of the lower classes and how they are supposedly being ruined by the upper class. Also, remember that much of what you're saying is US-centric. While many other states share similar qualities, not every problem the States has is a problem for the rest of the world.

And what is this WWII was necessary nonsense. WWII happened, necessity has no factor in it. Also, I'd like to point out that warfare accelerates technological advancement more so than periods of peace.

The rest of what you said is established fact we all know. Putting it in a video with creepy music and montages doesn't change it.

The core of his argument is understandable. We need to change because what we are doing right now isn't working from his point of view.

However, then he goes insane and tells us irrelevent things like "WW2 WAS A WASTE OF TIME GAUIZ"

No gak, most Wars are. They rarely accomplish anything truly beneficial, but they happen.

His ideals are right, but the way he wants to go about is just downright slowed - if you can't see that, you are the same as him.

In theory, most peoples ideals are right, but its the individual that corrupts those ideals.

Hitler wanted to accomplish world peace, he wanted to be united under one flag so that there would be no fighting.

How he was going to go about that though....not so good.

Blacksails wrote:How do banks 'rip people off'? Define 'rip people off'. They're a business. Businesses make money. And where else would I keep my money? Get paid in cash and store it all in a vault in my place?

Vague statements like 'rich make money off the poor' do nothing to add to your argument. There's no meat in it. How? Why? What is enabling them to do that? How could you possibly change it? What difference would it make?

These two questions are all I need to tell me that you didnt even watch the video...much less have any idea about how banks work. Have you read the paper in like...ever? You're on the internet right now, right? Go look it up.

You know what would make your arguments stronger? Facts. Numbers. Scholarly works detailing the plight of the lower classes and how they are supposedly being ruined by the upper class. Also, remember that much of what you're saying is US-centric. While many other states share similar qualities, not every problem the States has is a problem for the rest of the world.

What arguments am I making, besides the arguement that the above video (that you have yet to watch) was interesting?

And what is this WWII was necessary nonsense. WWII happened, necessity has no factor in it. Also, I'd like to point out that warfare accelerates technological advancement more so than periods of peace.

War's don't just happen, people make decisions and they occur. I guess the next Hitler that rolls along we'll just all hand over the key's to our car.

For the nosebleeds, my point wanst that WW2 was neccessary, but that U.S. involvement WAS. From what I know Israel was given to the Jew's b/c of WW2.

Was WW2 necessary? Ask the millions of Jews that live in Israel.



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Karon wrote:However, then he goes insane and tells us irrelevent things like "WW2 WAS A WASTE OF TIME GAUIZ"

He never said that.

I thought it and the first one was "interesting". The second one moving forwards was just "ok", slow pacing of the second one ruins the mid to end of it.
I would say the first one is better IMO, due to more of a religious overtone.
They are what they are...most people wouldn't know the truth or lies if you proved it to them either way.

Blacksails wrote: Also, remember that much of what you're saying is US-centric. While many other states share similar qualities, not every problem the States has is a problem for the rest of the world.

You know the owner of this site lives in the U.S., along with probably the majority of posters in general? Go to the Canadian Dakkadakka. Last time I heard of Canada was b/c South Park was making fun of it. I don't get mad at you guys when you make off topic threads about syrup or hockey. What's all that aboot, eh?


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Deathshead420 wrote:I thought it and the first one was "interesting". The second one moving forwards was just "ok", slow pacing of the second one ruins the mid to end of it.
I would say the first one is better IMO, due to more of a religious overtone.
They are what they are...most people wouldn't know the truth or lies if you proved it to them either way.

Yea I agree the first one was better and the Utopia part is a pipe dream. I just thought that the whole thing is thought provoking.

I didnt expect to piss off so many people on here, I thought we'd get more GOOD discussion rather than simply how stupid the whole topic is w/o any arguement otherwise to the contrary.

Karon wrote:The core of his argument is understandable. We need to change because what we are doing right now isn't working from his point of view.

However, then he goes insane and tells us irrelevent things like "WW2 WAS A WASTE OF TIME GAUIZ"

No gak, most Wars are. They rarely accomplish anything truly beneficial, but they happen.

I'm...so...damn...proud.


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Deadshane1 wrote: War's don't just happen, people make decisions and they occur. I guess the next Hitler that rolls along we'll just all hand over the key's to our car.

So long as you aren't "undesirable" that isn't a bad plan.

Deadshane1 wrote:

Blacksails wrote: Also, remember that much of what you're saying is US-centric. While many other states share similar qualities, not every problem the States has is a problem for the rest of the world.

You know the owner of this site lives in the U.S., along with probably the majority of posters in general? Go to the Canadian Dakkadakka. Last time I heard of Canada was b/c South Park was making fun of it. I don't get mad at you guys when you make off topic threads about syrup or hockey. What's all that aboot, eh?

Nice. Resorting to insulting other countries. Bravo.

You posted a video that discusses the problems with the world, but a number of those problems are American-centric, and as such, have less impact in other countries. Banking in Canada is much different than banking in America, making your banking point a non-issue for us Canadians.

Anyways, I have no desire to continue this with you if you're going to insult my nationality. Normally I laugh at comments like that, but in this context, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Good day.

Thanks dogma, for engaging me in conversation rather than just saying "you're a dumbhead".

Sometimes I think dakka is populated by spambots.


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Blacksails wrote:

Deadshane1 wrote:

Blacksails wrote: Also, remember that much of what you're saying is US-centric. While many other states share similar qualities, not every problem the States has is a problem for the rest of the world.

You know the owner of this site lives in the U.S., along with probably the majority of posters in general? Go to the Canadian Dakkadakka. Last time I heard of Canada was b/c South Park was making fun of it. I don't get mad at you guys when you make off topic threads about syrup or hockey. What's all that aboot, eh?

Nice. Resorting to insulting other countries. Bravo.

You posted a video that discusses the problems with the world, but a number of those problems are American-centric, and as such, have less impact in other countries. Banking in Canada is much different than banking in America, making your banking point a non-issue for us Canadians.

Anyways, I have no desire to continue this with you if you're going to insult my nationality. Normally I laugh at comments like that, but in this context, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Good day.

I bolded the parts that I meant.....I meant the rest as a joke, hence the smiley.

I apologise. I meant no offense, just joking.

However, if you really watch the video. I think you'll find that MUCH of what's said are GLOBAL problems, that and you have to understand, that if America falls...where does that leave YOUR country? America's problems are indeed CANADA'S problems. Beleive me, if the U.S. degrades down to anarchy, you guys are going to hear it.

...pretty much the same way as we here in America would prefer that Canada remains stable and without any sort of upheaval.

You know, the more I look into this zeitgeist thing on the internet the less and less I care for it.

Monster Rain wrote:You know, the more I look into this zeitgeist thing on the internet the less and less I care for it.

In what way?

Like you don't like the video, the movement?

Subject change:

You know they're part of the movement, right?

WW2 accelerated development significantly, this continues after 1945. These developments have filtered into modern society. So there's a reason why this advert is incorrect.

While I admire the sentiment of a better sustainable future, this comes across as an advert for a cult based upon environmental communism. Ironic really, the communism not the cult side (USA seems to lead the world here).

As for the sustainability aspect, moved to Europe especially the Scandinavian nations if you want something like this (chicos are hot too).

The model city looked like something from Joe 90 as well.

It all seems rather flawed to me.

notprop wrote:
While I admire the sentiment of a better sustainable future, this comes across as an advert for a cult based upon environmental communism. Ironic really, the communism not the cult side (USA seems to lead the world here).

"Okay, some people a freaked out about the Venus Project being another form of Communism, Socialism, or any other system of governance. It is none of those.

People are saying the the Resource Based economy is like communism. That is like saying every other method of distribution is pretty much like communism. The thing is, we share resources all the time. It is the method of which we distributed resources that really matters. In a Resource Based economy, you won’t have to worry about money. You don’t need to give it away. No one will force you to give up your stuff. That is YOUR burden. There are no police, no military, no MONEY. That separates a Resource Based economy from communism, socialism, and the rest. There are NO LEADERS. There is no one person or small group of people who run everything. It is an economy based on resources rather than an economy based on money."




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notprop wrote:WW2 accelerated development significantly, this continues after 1945. These developments have filtered into modern society. So there's a reason why this advert is incorrect.

Humanity does NOT "need" war in order to advance technologically. War is NEVER a good thing, not even where technological advancement is involved. The costs for the technological advancement during the war were 50-70 million persons who lost their lives during the war. What? So you could have a cell phone today?

I think every one of those people who died during the war would've preferred another avenue for "technological advancement" over that of a World War.

Advancement aside, the point made about WW2 was that it was a reckless usage of rescources. One that we havent matched in more altruistic endeavors....like homelessness, famine, or disease. The country came together to fight WW2 with housewives going to work in steel factories to make tanks and bombs while husbands were overseas fighting. Seeing the country come together to come up with a cure for Cancer would be nice....

....but since it's not profitable to "Cure" cancer, I don't think we'll see that.

Deadshane1 wrote:

notprop wrote:
While I admire the sentiment of a better sustainable future, this comes across as an advert for a cult based upon environmental communism. Ironic really, the communism not the cult side (USA seems to lead the world here).

"Okay, some people a freaked out about the Venus Project being another form of Communism, Socialism, or any other system of governance. It is none of those.

People are saying the the Resource Based economy is like communism. That is like saying every other method of distribution is pretty much like communism. The thing is, we share resources all the time. It is the method of which we distributed resources that really matters. In a Resource Based economy, you won’t have to worry about money. You don’t need to give it away. No one will force you to give up your stuff. That is YOUR burden. There are no police, no military, no MONEY. That separates a Resource Based economy from communism, socialism, and the rest. There are NO LEADERS. There is no one person or small group of people who run everything. It is an economy based on resources rather than an economy based on money."

Sorry fella, not my intent to get you so riled up, certainly not to the extent that you have quoted The Good Word to me.

But I will say this, as system with no police, no military and no money is one thing, but no leaders?

This chap is obviously delusional if he thinks that any human social system will operate without it leaders never mind Grunts, rozzers or cash.

There are hierarchies in all culture even the war-free animal world. To have no leaders smacks of naivety.

This dream future will still have crime, accidents and disasters, even without then people will still look up to others for example, advice and leadership.

Deadshane1 wrote:
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notprop wrote:WW2 accelerated development significantly, this continues after 1945. These developments have filtered into modern society. So there's a reason why this advert is incorrect.

Humanity does NOT "need" war in order to advance technologically. War is NEVER a good thing, not even where technological advancement is involved. The costs for the technological advancement during the war were 50-70 million persons who lost their lives during the war. What? So you could have a cell phone today?

I think every one of those people who died during the war would've preferred another avenue for "technological advancement" over that of a World War.

Advancement aside, the point made about WW2 was that it was a reckless usage of rescources. One that we havent matched in more altruistic endeavors....like homelessness, famine, or disease. The country came together to fight WW2 with housewives going to work in steel factories to make tanks and bombs while husbands were overseas fighting. Seeing the country come together to come up with a cure for Cancer would be nice....

....but since it's not profitable to "Cure" cancer, I don't think we'll see that.

I don't think anyone (except you just then) said the war is "needed"? It was stated that no benefit came from war, this is factually incorrect. Not just Technologically but Socially as well. I.e. National Health here in the UK. Pretty altruistic I think.

If we could have had that with out the deaths then that would be great but this feller is flogging an ideology not a time machine.

As for a cure for cancer, the first company that invents that is guaranteed a virtual monopoly (bigger than GWs ), that would seem pretty profitable to me with the added bonus that all your competitors find their chemicals/placebos redundant.

Sorry mate this ain't going to happen unless there some other way of relieving everyone (never mind the super rich) of their land/money/possessions other than war/revolution. So to avoid future wars this fella will have to ignore his own beliefs and get his hads a bit dirty - for the greater good.

This is all starting to sound like an episode in Star Trek/Stargate where they discover a perfect society only to find that the Troglodytes/Tau are running the show or something.

Actually its worse that that, this fella has seen The Demolition Man and wants t be Dr Cockteau/Nigel Hawthorne!

Deadshane1 wrote:So basically, gamers or dakkaites in general have no business discussing real life issues? I thought that gamers were open minded and imaginative. That's what this topic is all about. I don't see how miniature gamer forums are a horrible place to discuss issues.

Ph34r, Are you a miniature wargamer? Or an engineer with an opinion on this subject? I ask b/c you're posting here on dakka...yet you think (apparently) that all mini wargamers are too stupid to discuss real issues.

I'm not saying this guy should be Emperor, I don't give a F about this guy...I just thought what he had to say was mildly interesting.

Gamers or dakkaites are not in any way knowledgeable about the issues, real or not, described in this video. Not all mini wargamers are too stupid to discuss real life issues, did I ever say that? No, but it would be a lot more convenient for your argument if I did. I did however say that discussing this topic here will not yield illumination for you.

Deadshane1 wrote:Look man, just so I can understand you, since I'm inept.

Which one(s) of these are false:

Banks rip people off
rich make money off the poor
entire political system is becoming more vague and corrupt
money is the real religion in america
the u.s. is a country of consumers
advertising is bombarding us all
WWII (while necessary) was very expensive and we dont use those same resources to better life today
Violence is way more widespread in poorer areas
Natural rescources are running out
We're NOT addressing the energy crisis

1. No. People choose to overspend, the banks facilitate that.
2. Duh. The rich also make money off of the rich. It would be insanity to say otherwise, after all the rich must get money somewhere? The poor also make money off the poor.
3. Everywhere in the world? Here in the US? We are currently in a troubling time with all the teaparty Dunning–Kruger effect folks thinking they can do politics, but that doesn't mean that the political system is becoming "more vague and corrupt"
4. The feth? No.
5. Welcome to capitalism?
6. Bombarding? What? Advertising exists.
7. WWII, while necessary, also saw advancements across the board in technology. Medicine, communication, computers, airplanes... a quick Google search should be enough to convince anyone. In fact, if WWII had never happen, we would not be nearly as advanced technologically as we are today. Standard of living would be lower. Now, were these gains worth all those deaths in a vacuum? Maybe, it's hard to say. Were they worth it in the context of stopping the Third Reich? Yes.
8. Yes.
9. Sort of. Some are running out, others we are beginning to renew and recycle efficiently, others we are switching away from for alternatives.
10. We are. Not as much as I would want, but we are. I would have the US switch to Thorium fueled nuclear power, but the general populace is too afraid of nuclear power plants to back it, and the republicans with their coal and oil industries will want to milk everyone as long as they can.

Deadshane1 wrote:....b/c these are the things the guy's saying. So I don't see what's being made up here. None of these are new topics or things that the guy made up. George Carlin, a political activist was on here too. I know he was probably stupid according to engineers all over, but.... If all the above is incorrect...where do YOU live? I'd like to come live in engineerland.

Let go for a second the pipe-dream utopia, because thats not the entirety of the 2 and a half hours.

The point of the entire video is that we need to change or alter the current system...because they're not working.

This is just something we all need to be aware of, it's not that radical (while the utopia part may be).

I live in California! Engineerland is great, weather is warm and it never snows.
It is not an uncommon belief that the current *insert anything here* is not working/not working well enough/not working how I want it to. The way this lunatic wants to go about "fixing" his perceived "problems" however? Complete garbage.

Deadshane1 wrote:I really cannot beleive that you said we should'nt discuss relevant topics here on dakka. I cannot beleive you're not being hounded on here b/c of that. Why can't you try to be an intellectual AND a gamer?

It's ridiculous.

I think that Dakka is a fine place to discuss topics.

I think this Zeitgeist guy is an underinformed fearmongering fool.

I think that you can be an intellectual and a gamer... and I think that most people on dakka are not informed enough to discuss serious matters such as the (ridiculous) points raised by this video. Dakka is not a good place to discuss such serious issues. Is there a better one out there on the internet? I don't know, I'm not looking for one.

Deadshane1 wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:You know, the more I look into this zeitgeist thing on the internet the less and less I care for it.

In what way?

Like you don't like the video, the movement?

I don't like the video. I genuinely tried to watch it, brother. I've done a lot of reading on cults and whatnot, and a lot of this sounds like theosophy with "universal wisdom" replaced with "technology." The whole "Jesus is the Gnostic Solar Deity" (paraphrasing, here) bit is right out their playbook. I have literally heard and/or read this spiel at least 10 times from different groups that are claiming to hat "the answer."

I wasn't kidding around when I said that it sounds like The Secret, and there are quite a few carnies out there working that angle to profit off of people who are looking for answers. This really comes off as another one.

On an unrelated note:

ITT yet another person who posts here but acts like they're too cool/smart to post here.

Talk about cognitive dissonance.

Monster Rain wrote:ITT yet another person who posts here but acts like they're too cool/smart to post here.

Talk about cognitive dissonance.

I don't always view the Off-Topic forum, but when I do, the threads are usually terrible. This one is extra terrible.

And just because I am cooler/smarter than you, doesn't mean that being cool and smart is bad. Try it sometime?


EDIT: And If you think "being informed" and "posting in Off-Topic" are enough to cause cognitive dissonance, well... I guess I'm just sad for you.