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So to keep us on target here, for the friendly games where overcosted units come out to play, is there currently much role for Gitz other than driving around in a Wagon nuking stuff that doesn't take cover?

InquisitorVaron wrote:
I would take them as a Five man squad with Badrukk since he's possibly the best if not one of the best Leaders.

Thats the first time Ive ever read that. Hes WAY to pricey for what you get out of him. And yea, Id HOPE he can kill a 50pt terminator a turn costing 135pts. Not to mention he has a chance to strip wounds from himself, at that cost. Ive tried playing with him, but the cost/danger is just to high for what he brings back. You can take 3 FlashGits with shootier/more dakka for his price.

I've tried to figure out a way to make Flash Gitz an efficient use of points, because I love the model. I own a couple of them. And every time I've tried to use them, they just don't do enough to justify the points. I hope in the next codex they come up with a way to make flash gitz viable.

Badrukk for sure lies in the HQ section with ol' ghagzy and wazdakka instead off a buffed up squad leader, particularly considering his point cost. he is an amazingly powerful character though.
it would be nice to have them out of the heavy section as others have mentioned, possibly even adding them as a HQ command-type-bodyguard under badrukk?

gitfindas ignoring covers saves would also be a nice buff to make them useful, allowing them to blast people out of buildings and off objectives with ease.

id give anything to revenge the carnage my brothers sternguard do to my kan-wall boyz!

They're one of 2 units I'm hoping to see get a face lift in the next codex (along with Mega Nobz).

As with MANZ, they're OK, and can do weel (stressing can).

I'd be happy if they had some cooler options even if it meant they'd cost more. For Example being able to double their range, or shoot blast templates. Evan a random chart for the effects and the paid upgrades give you modifiers to the chart roll.

Yup MANz were another selection I think they will redue and focus on. Plastic minis, for the huge sales they always shoot for. SO! I think the run down would be something like this

HQ: Ghaz will still be a serious badass, maybe a redesign again, for sales. Warboss will still be a head kicker, the BigMek will still have alot of options, but probably not be as awesome as it is currently, so bringing the focus back to Warbosses. Maybe a nother character or two.

Elites: Nobs will still be badass, but they will have a serious over haul as such. FlashGits/MANz will now be added to their load out and therefore they all will be badass at what they are meant for. Gits will be badass shooty units of Nobz, that blow holes in things like they did in DOW. MANz will be basically battering rams, and have all the options of normal Nobz.

Fast Attack: Buggies will get an overhaul and possibly be decently good this time around, instead of just rokkit buggies being useful. Again, new models means more sales, as currently, they are flatlined. Koptas.......who knows. Bikers, probably a boost somewhere, be it cheaper (pts wise) or whatever, but they will will probably be better. StormBoyz WILL get a revamp at least in rules, as the minis look good. People dont really buy them all that much as currently, they are an odd unit to use and arnt that competitive. So rules revamp, they are now hardasses and will therefor push sales up drastically. I think FastAttack will be the coveted FOC section in 6th.

Heavy Support: Dreads will probably stay the same ish, kans the same ish, they still wont be wanted so much. I think personally they will change the KFF rules again, and so kans wont really be as badass as they are now. I think the star in the Heavy Support will end up being either theBattlewagon (no surprise really) or Lootas, as they will finally come to their senses and put them where they should be.

Troops: well its no surprise here, boyz will still be the main chunk of our lovely Orks, I think they will still be good in CC, and the debate will still be shootas or choppas? A bit of wishlisting here, but Id LOVE if they brought back the mob up rule. Grots will be Grots.


Thats what I think in a nutshell

A) You missed big guns, tankbustas and bunas.
B) Why does everyone want lootas competeing with the other long range items? You kill several playstyles if you do.

If three Devastator Squads and three Vindicators were a playstyle, that would not in itself be an automatic argument to keep it a part of mainline 40K.

I like using big guns (zzapp guns) and lootas.

I think there's more of a global issue on how heavy support slots work, to be honest. Three BS3 Missile Launchers with T2 crew taking the same slot as three Leman Russ, Manticores or Carnifexes?

I know massed fire support is the IG's MO, but there's some very strange differences between Codices. I was kind of hoping that Apocalypse, Spearhead and Planetstrike would provide the environment in which the more extreme Blitzkrieg/1stCo/Kult of Speed builds could play without mainline 40K becoming a metagame of stone-paper-scissors, but it seems to be reverting to the 2ed 'anything goes' philosophy. Post-Apocalypse Codices seem to render Apoc formations that had everyone shouting 'OMG BROKEN' obsolete with even more extreme mainline options.

Main difference this time round is that whilst a special character was an option in 2ed, nowadays there's thousands of clones of the 'unique' Vulkan or Belial or whomever leading every single battlegroup of their respective chapter or company. One-off friendlies and tourney matches are feeling more and more unworkable next to planned campaigns with forewarning of what 'theme' force you might have to engage; as I build my Orks, I know that if I don't take a fairly extreme Kan Wall or whatever, every game I play against an extreme list will just see my boyz being a punching bag.

If they had a transport option and access to a power klaw I'd use them

as is they're just a great option for conversions and not much else....

the_ferrett wrote:A) You missed big guns, tankbustas and bunas.
B) Why does everyone want lootas competeing with the other long range items? You kill several playstyles if you do.

I left them out because I dont really see them changing. But for gaks and giggles why not.

Burnas : will pretty much be the same. They might get a point drop only because GW realized that cheaper pts means more sales. They MIGHT get a nob but I wouldnt hold my breath.

Tankbustas : Im thinking they will stay the same, but might get a slight change in rules. I can see them actually being a pretty decent elites choice now that I think on it more. If they did something as small as axing glory hogs, and adding FINALLY adding, tank hunter special rules , they would be a pretty nice threat to enemy vehicles.

Big Gunz : I dont see them changing any more then say points going up or down. Theyve had the same gunz for 2 editions anyways. And what else would go in there anyways? Kannon, lobba, Zzap gun. Thats it. Again, possibly adding rules but I really doubt it. Id say, same thing as usual


As for your 2nd question. Your worrying about killing play styles? Have you seen the Tyranid codex? Its incredibly different then the last one, and Fex spam is pretty much dead and gone.....like rigor mortise. Also I personally LIKE when an army gets a new dex and the play style changes. I LOVE my Orks, but playing the same ol same army list and playing them the same way over and over for years, would be VERY boring to me. Its to keep things fresh, which also drives sales.

True, I could see Tankbusta's becoming quite important in the future. Isn't that how the formula goes, anyway? Amazing units get nerfed, and horrible ones get upped.

So, I'm guessing Bikers are going to be worth less points wise, or something, Deff Dreads getting a nice boost, or all other walkers in the game get nerfed a tad, Flash Gitz getting a constant AP but a 5+d6 roll for power, and something to replace the looted wagon.

I dunno bout the looted wagon, only because its been in the Ork dex for damn near forever. But at the same time, I dont see them making an actual model for the looted wagon, so really it might just get dropped just cause.

I strongly doubt LW's will get dropped, because the Ork line now features sculpts of looted weapons. 'Stealing the stuff of other races' is solidly established in the Ork range.

lindsay40k wrote:I think there's more of a global issue on how heavy support slots work, to be honest. Three BS3 Missile Launchers with T2 crew taking the same slot as three Leman Russ, Manticores or Carnifexes?

I know massed fire support is the IG's MO, but there's some very strange differences between Codices. I was kind of hoping that Apocalypse, Spearhead and Planetstrike would provide the environment in which the more extreme Blitzkrieg/1stCo/Kult of Speed builds could play without mainline 40K becoming a metagame of stone-paper-scissors, but it seems to be reverting to the 2ed 'anything goes' philosophy. Post-Apocalypse Codices seem to render Apoc formations that had everyone shouting 'OMG BROKEN' obsolete with even more extreme mainline options.

Main difference this time round is that whilst a special character was an option in 2ed, nowadays there's thousands of clones of the 'unique' Vulkan or Belial or whomever leading every single battlegroup of their respective chapter or company. One-off friendlies and tourney matches are feeling more and more unworkable next to planned campaigns with forewarning of what 'theme' force you might have to engage; as I build my Orks, I know that if I don't take a fairly extreme Kan Wall or whatever, every game I play against an extreme list will just see my boyz being a punching bag.

If you think thats a global issue your sense of reality is skewed its a game with plastic dollies

lindsay40k wrote:I strongly doubt LW's will get dropped, because the Ork line now features sculpts of looted weapons. 'Stealing the stuff of other races' is solidly established in the Ork range.

Right you are, but I was mainly saying that simply because the Looted wagon didnt really have a place in the current dex other then a BoomGun platform. So they will most likely flip around the rules for it again like last time and pump it out

KingCracker wrote:

lindsay40k wrote:I strongly doubt LW's will get dropped, because the Ork line now features sculpts of looted weapons. 'Stealing the stuff of other races' is solidly established in the Ork range.

Right you are, but I was mainly saying that simply because the Looted wagon didnt really have a place in the current dex other then a BoomGun platform. So they will most likely flip around the rules for it again like last time and pump it out

Pretty much what I meant as well. I wasn't sure if they'd keep the same name, but it would be effectively the same unit, probably with better options.

I would love to see the old looted rules come back, where what you loot has an effect on the stuff your wagon can do. A looted land raider will perform differently than a looted devilfish.

-cgmckenzie

Flash Gitz being able to take looted wagons as dedicated transports makes sense now that I thought about it. "Must have the Boom Gun upgrade" may be applied to this allowance, because that's what a gitz would put on it.
Also, I've said a lot that BS3 would make gitz worth their points, but now that I think about it, BS3 might make them OP. Keep them as is and just give more options, a.k.a. powerklaws and the looted wagon transport even though its not as good as the Battlewagon its more orky as far as what gitz are and why they'd choose the looted wagon. Not because it 'is better', but because they stole it so it "iz betta".


Automatically Appended Next Post:
again though I have fun with the gitz now and the orkz aren't in need of a makeover anytime soon. We can still go with those 5ed codexes, other guys need it more.

cgmckenzie wrote:I would love to see the old looted rules come back, where what you loot has an effect on the stuff your wagon can do. A looted land raider will perform differently than a looted devilfish.

-cgmckenzie

We all know this will end with everyone fielding some random over-the-curve looted wagon like looted manticores or the like. Not that I would care, I'm already fielding a looted manticore as mekboy junka

I don't think Looted Wagon fits the Gits - Lootas, sure, but Gitz don't grub around in the mud looking for discarded autocannon, they throw sack of teef at a Mek and expect nothing but the best! The idea that a Nobz mob will be able to acquire a BW but not Gitz... erm, no.

KingCracker wrote:

lindsay40k wrote:I strongly doubt LW's will get dropped, because the Ork line now features sculpts of looted weapons. 'Stealing the stuff of other races' is solidly established in the Ork range.

Right you are, but I was mainly saying that simply because the Looted wagon didnt really have a place in the current dex other then a BoomGun platform. So they will most likely flip around the rules for it again like last time and pump it out

I liked the looted wagon.. but you're right that it was a boomgun platform... if it waas an otion for a dedicated transport for the boyz then it'd handidly beat trukks though (imo) btu that may have somehtign to do with my terrible ramshackle rolls.. but give me basically a rhino that carries 12 without the self reapir and I'd field em. esp if they included ard case and had the same door placment

but alas i doubt that would happen. ..

and I agree lindsay40k... gitz would have the best of the best, unless they can loot a land raider then they'd have a custom built battlewagon tricked out to the gills

the abilit to loot anything would be interesting, but I can see it being very hard to balance



on a other note though it would move alot of plastic, and already does as ork players buy army models for thier looted wagons... hell my looted trygon technicelly is a looted monstrous creature... but still orky

lindsay40k wrote:I don't think Looted Wagon fits the Gits - Lootas, sure, but Gitz don't grub around in the mud looking for discarded autocannon, they throw sack of teef at a Mek and expect nothing but the best! The idea that a Nobz mob will be able to acquire a BW but not Gitz... erm, no.

I agree with you here. The looted wagon should be the dedicated transport of the mek-class orks. Flashgits seem like they deserve something even flashier than a battlewagon, but I don't know what that would be.

In the new codex, I would like to see a bit more of a divided between the rough-&-tumble nobs, the clever meks, and the weird oddboys, and within each group, I would like to see innumerable builds, some based on tribes.

It was odd that Lootas didn't get a transport option. Especially given that they were shortly given an Apoc formation that establishes a cool fluff reason for them having wheels.

lindsay40k wrote:It was odd that Lootas didn't get a transport option. Especially given that they were shortly given an Apoc formation that establishes a cool fluff reason for them having wheels.

Oh, yeah, those are cool. Burnas definitely need a transport option; tankbustas too, although I won't throw them into the mek class, seeing as they don't have a mek upgrade (or downgrade).

Speaking of which, in the new codex, I would like to see these mek upgrades in loota- and burnaboy mobs be useful, by making them into sergeant-level figures with fluff appropriate options, analogous to the nobs in boy squads.

G00fySmiley wrote:

the abilit to loot anything would be interesting, but I can see it being very hard to balance

im not so sure. reading the IG codex, you see hundreds of different versions of essentially 4 vehicles, why not do the same for the LW? set up 3-4 different looted vehicle types and give slightly adapted rules for each. nothing extravagant or even necessarily new:

-tank option with option of kannon/zzap gun, plus 2-3 additional weapons, 12 front armour and 'ard case as standard
-transport option, only 1 hull mounted weapon(BS/RL), open top, boarding plank and armour plates as standard, with transport capacity of 20
-ordnance option with boomgun but no "dont touch dat" rule,'ard case as standard
-"hellhound" option with twin linked skorcha and 2-3 additional weapons, (burnas being an option for hull/sponsoon weapons). (actually always wanted an ork chem cannon so looting a chem cannon would be amazing! )

So in summary, lotted wagon types totally work if it is done at a high level and not left to be too nitty gritty. what they have now isnt enough, but if they go too far with it then will go oh so wrong

but above everything discussed in this thread, what i really want is a special rule for each klan to customise your overall force and make your klan choice more than just cosmetic.
like a mini space marine thing - each chapter has different rules - why cant each ork klan come with its own special rule set?

Working on the post-DA Belial/Sammael trend, best you can hope for is six clan-specific characters who adjust the force selection in some way.

Ghaz and Waz cover Goffs and Sunz, Zogwort could rep the Snakebites, Nazdreg could return for Bad Moons, Snikrot isn't a Blood Axe AFAIK so they'd need someone new (the Kommissar theme is covered by Zagstruk, so perhaps a force multiplying and/or reserves-influencing general would work), and some kind of mad scav-inventor or über-loota would also have to be invented for Deathskulls.

Hobowan wrote:

G00fySmiley wrote:

the abilit to loot anything would be interesting, but I can see it being very hard to balance

im not so sure. reading the IG codex, you see hundreds of different versions of essentially 4 vehicles, why not do the same for the LW? set up 3-4 different looted vehicle types and give slightly adapted rules for each. nothing extravagant or even necessarily new:

-tank option with option of kannon/zzap gun, plus 2-3 additional weapons, 12 front armour and 'ard case as standard
-transport option, only 1 hull mounted weapon(BS/RL), open top, boarding plank and armour plates as standard, with transport capacity of 20
-ordnance option with boomgun but no "dont touch dat" rule,'ard case as standard
-"hellhound" option with twin linked skorcha and 2-3 additional weapons, (burnas being an option for hull/sponsoon weapons). (actually always wanted an ork chem cannon so looting a chem cannon would be amazing! )

So in summary, lotted wagon types totally work if it is done at a high level and not left to be too nitty gritty. what they have now isnt enough, but if they go too far with it then will go oh so wrong

but above everything discussed in this thread, what i really want is a special rule for each klan to customise your overall force and make your klan choice more than just cosmetic.
like a mini space marine thing - each chapter has different rules - why cant each ork klan come with its own special rule set?

true, btu you just covered taking a chimera. I was tlakign liek an ork looting anythign and getting say... a landraider or monolith, or maybe a fire prysm

The old klan rules were cool, but to be fair most of the armies they made possible are more or less feasible in the current dex.

Goffs gained more Nobz and can even Deffwing.

Snakebites can get up to their old tricks with Weirdboyz and Shokkas.

Bad Moons... well, the option's there for Gitz (hey, remember OP's question? No, me either). And it's very easy to overspend on Nobz

Most of the Evil Sunz / Kult of Speed list is there intact.

Deathskulls became one of the best units, albeit with a mystifying lack of transport option.

Blood Axes can't spam Kommandoz any more, but they can field more nicked Russ and LR-wagons.

Each of those got a way better deal than the CSM Legions did.