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I was thinking the next fantasy book would be Brets or Empire since the easter eggs in the Ogre artwork....that and the bound and gagged emperial soldier dangling from my thundertusk.

I hope they nerf the steam tank. There's no reason something should be T10 W10 and have a 1+ save.

Kanluwen wrote:I don't really think the Bretonnians have a "religious angle" personally. They're very much the embodiment of the early Romantic era stuff regarding King Arthur, though and if I had to pick one phrase to describe the army in its background it would be "The Hero Cult".

I just use religious angle as short hand for the embodiement of their faith in the Lady of the Lake and virtuousness. Its more that Bretonnia should be able to do something equal to or better than the Empire... beyond knights.

Kanluwen wrote: I'm not entirely sure what you're referring to here. Are you meaning "They're fleshing out the religions of the Empire, which seemingly has had more effort put into it than the entirety of Bretonnia's background"? If so, I'd say that there's not too much work for them to actually do in regards to fleshing out the Empire's religions. It's been done for awhile in WHFRP, Warhammer Online, and there was even a White Dwarf with a five or six page spread about the various religions.

Your original comment was presumably on the age of the horse minatures the empire models use? -and my point was just that the Empire model range has recieved a lot of attention the last two edition, even if something like horses have been neglected. Any army, like Empire, can always use or appreciate more fleshing out, but I think its Bretonnia who need it. All in due time.

aka_mythos wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:I don't really think the Bretonnians have a "religious angle" personally. They're very much the embodiment of the early Romantic era stuff regarding King Arthur, though and if I had to pick one phrase to describe the army in its background it would be "The Hero Cult".

I just use religious angle as short hand for the embodiement of their faith in the Lady of the Lake and virtuousness. Its more that Bretonnia should be able to do something equal to or better than the Empire... beyond knights.

Ahhh. Gotcha on that one.

Kanluwen wrote: I'm not entirely sure what you're referring to here. Are you meaning "They're fleshing out the religions of the Empire, which seemingly has had more effort put into it than the entirety of Bretonnia's background"? If so, I'd say that there's not too much work for them to actually do in regards to fleshing out the Empire's religions. It's been done for awhile in WHFRP, Warhammer Online, and there was even a White Dwarf with a five or six page spread about the various religions.

Your original comment was presumably on the age of the horse minatures the empire models use? -and my point was just that the Empire model range has recieved a lot of attention the last two edition, even if something like horses have been neglected. Any army, like Empire, can always use or appreciate more fleshing out, but I think its Bretonnia who need it. All in due time.

But let's be fair. The attention that the Empire model range received was no different than the overhaul that Bretonnia received when their book came out. It's not like the Empire got their models in the middle of another army's book release, right?

I can sort of understand doing Empire and Dwarves before the other armies, if only because two of GW's big focuses this edition are Magic and Monsters. Guess what one army is short of in both regards, and the other is short of in one regard and has an extremely high shut-out capability in the other regard?

Verd_Warr wrote:

Ouroborus wrote:HOPEFULLY The Empire gets new state troops. As they stand now they're some of the worst looking core units in the entire game.

You are, of course, entitled to that opinion, but... huh?

They look terrible. Weird poses, goofy faces, no puffy shrts, dumb hats, random junk on them etc etc etc


They should look towards the great swords to see what they SHOULD do with state troops, appearance-wise.

Yes, but don't great swords cost a fortune? Maybe I'm thinking of another Empire unit... you know, the one that's good but no one ever takes due to it being a box of 10 for a ton of $$$...

Yeah, greatswords cost a lot. Less than they used to, but still more than they should. It wouldn't be so bad if this edition didn't require blocks of 30-40 'swords, that is pretty harsh on the wallet.

Ouroborus wrote:

Verd_Warr wrote:

Ouroborus wrote:HOPEFULLY The Empire gets new state troops. As they stand now they're some of the worst looking core units in the entire game.

You are, of course, entitled to that opinion, but... huh?

They look terrible. Weird poses, goofy faces, no puffy shrts, dumb hats, random junk on them etc etc etc


They should look towards the great swords to see what they SHOULD do with state troops, appearance-wise.

I think that's the point. The empire was based off of 17th(?) century Germany, and that's what they wore.

If you want Greatswords, you're better off (in the long run) buying Battalions to get them.

Ouroborus wrote:

Verd_Warr wrote:

Ouroborus wrote:HOPEFULLY The Empire gets new state troops. As they stand now they're some of the worst looking core units in the entire game.

You are, of course, entitled to that opinion, but... huh?

They look terrible. Weird poses, goofy faces, no puffy shrts, dumb hats, random junk on them etc etc etc
They should look towards the great swords to see what they SHOULD do with state troops, appearance-wise.

...Greatswords have all of those things.

It's also worth noting that Greatswords are going to look far more regimented because they're the elite troops of an Elector Count.

Although I have to admit, with perry WOTR knights coming out late 2011/early 2012, I am tempted to start a knight heavy army.

Something tells me though the demigrifs are going to use the mournfang's 2 in a box "you cant have a full rank" set

Isn't that about the same as any chariot-based items?

Kanluwen wrote:Isn't that about the same as any chariot-based items?

TK chariots are 3 to a box

Other chariot units were boxed before chariot based units were made (goblin chariots) or are still single model units

agnosto wrote:

I hope they nerf the steam tank. There's no reason something should be T10 W10 and have a 1+ save.

It's stats are irrelevant, with the 'anything wounds on a 6' ruling, and the facts that everyone and their dog can shoot/fight combat, its a total waste of 300pts. this from a man who owns 2 :-(
I agree with what a lot of people are saying-the demi-gryffins are un-necessary, what is needed is nice cavalry models. But yup, welcome to the age of nothing but monsters. If it doesn't have a £27+ price tag it doesn't get made

Kanluwen wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:Your original comment was presumably on the age of the horse minatures the empire models use? -and my point was just that the Empire model range has recieved a lot of attention the last two edition, even if something like horses have been neglected. Any army, like Empire, can always use or appreciate more fleshing out, but I think its Bretonnia who need it. All in due time.

But let's be fair. The attention that the Empire model range received was no different than the overhaul that Bretonnia received when their book came out. It's not like the Empire got their models in the middle of another army's book release, right?

Well its partially the sentiment that Empire had received just as much attention to models with each of the last two books while Bretonnians haven't...and that's fine... Its just that a lot of the Empire models that were redone had relatively recently been redone, absorbing much of the effort that could have gone towards new horses or knights. When an army gets so much unnecessary its hard to garner sympathy to a small thing like horses.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Ouroborus wrote:

Verd_Warr wrote:

Ouroborus wrote:HOPEFULLY The Empire gets new state troops. As they stand now they're some of the worst looking core units in the entire game.

You are, of course, entitled to that opinion, but... huh?

They look terrible. Weird poses, goofy faces, no puffy shrts, dumb hats, random junk on them etc etc etc


They should look towards the great swords to see what they SHOULD do with state troops, appearance-wise.

I think that's the point. The empire was based off of 17th(?) century Germany, and that's what they wore.

Go buy a book that illustrates what the common German soldier wore in that time period. You'll find a lot of uniformity and puff.

Kanluwen wrote:

Ouroborus wrote:

Verd_Warr wrote:

Ouroborus wrote:HOPEFULLY The Empire gets new state troops. As they stand now they're some of the worst looking core units in the entire game.

You are, of course, entitled to that opinion, but... huh?

They look terrible. Weird poses, goofy faces, no puffy shrts, dumb hats, random junk on them etc etc etc
They should look towards the great swords to see what they SHOULD do with state troops, appearance-wise.

...Greatswords have all of those things.

No they look miles better than state troops.


Their clothing and armor is superior, their faces look good, no awkward poses, FACIAL HAIR etc etc.



What GW should do is take their 6th edition state troops, update them a bit so they can have different poses and have them take the place of what we have now.

Well Ouroborus, you are of course entitled to your opinion, but personally I think the State Troops look fantastic individually. They were done just after the point when GW started to put really nicely details on their sculpts and basically set the standard for what has followed since.

It's just a shame they're nearly impossible to rank up as Halberdiers/Spearmen.

The only thing I don't like about the State Troops is that some of them have bare feet.

I just took a needle file and rounded the toes out and filled over the toes so it looks like yet more slippers.

Ouroborus wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Ouroborus wrote:

Verd_Warr wrote:

Ouroborus wrote:HOPEFULLY The Empire gets new state troops. As they stand now they're some of the worst looking core units in the entire game.

You are, of course, entitled to that opinion, but... huh?

They look terrible. Weird poses, goofy faces, no puffy shrts, dumb hats, random junk on them etc etc etc


They should look towards the great swords to see what they SHOULD do with state troops, appearance-wise.

I think that's the point. The empire was based off of 17th(?) century Germany, and that's what they wore.

Woops, sorry misread that. I thought you said they had puffy shirts.

This is what Empire State Troops should look like:

http://www.artizandesigns.com/prod.php?prod=1739

...
That's almost exactly what they do look like.

Why is this thread now about what Empire State Troops should look like, instead of the actual main thing here, which is that Wood Elves and Bretonnia are going to be fethed for years to come. Once GW finally gets around to redoing their Armybooks it will be almost time for 9th edition, which has a good chance of screwing up the then finally decent (in 8th edition) Wood Elves / Bretonnia....

Hmm, Landsknecht had those uniforms because hey, you live only once and you had to look your best guv.

@ Kan

Not really, they lack the puffy sleeves/slashed clothes style mostly. The Goldswords indeed look more like that.

@ Ourobos

Yet, the state troops are historically accurate still (if that means much in a fantasy army). The style of clothing they wear is that of the common (not Landsknecht) men or earlier Landsknechte in that period (see the nice woodcuts Dürer did of Landsknechte around 1505), including the hats with outrages feathers which are spot on ^^. They fit quite well for around 1490-1505 whereas the later you get, the more puffy the sleeves and the more heavy slashes you see. The Goldswords/the Artizan stuff is around 1520. I think it is a nice detail to use this difference in style to depict the difference in status. They indeed could have done the state troops in the more flashy style but they obviously chose not to (as this is fantasy they had not historical obligations anyway). As the kits are quite new, we can bet on not seeing a replacement in quite some time. Whether we like them or not.

Ontopic:

Hmmm, although as an Empire Player I like this rumour, Brets and Woodies should be redone before. But as one of the rumourists said, it is GW so we shouldn´t be surprised. I´d love to see a warwagon, that is for sure.

Vampire Counts? WTF?

Probably indeed the "popular armies get done first" thing.

I think that both Empire and VC desperately need an update for their chavalry. New plastic kits with the quality of the Chaos Marauders, Chaos Knights or Dark Elves Cold Ones should be the update for Knight Orders and Blood Knights.

I dont care for the Empire but monstrous cavalry makes sense for monster hammer. I hope Dwarves come soon and they seem a good choice as GW need to get their version of Dwarves set in the minds of players before the Hobbit clouds everybody's minds.

Airmaniac wrote:Why is this thread now about what Empire State Troops should look like, instead of the actual main thing here, which is that Wood Elves and Bretonnia are going to be fethed for years to come. Once GW finally gets around to redoing their Armybooks it will be almost time for 9th edition, which has a good chance of screwing up the then finally decent (in 8th edition) Wood Elves / Bretonnia....

Probably because the title of the thread kind of tells us what to expect inside...?

Small tidbit:

Harry wrote:I think maybe I heard something about a generic lord/hero on a griffon that could 'pass' as Karl Franz if it had to. (But I can't remember where I heard that so I am not 100%)