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Why are people upset about the Brets being skipped?

Looking at the last few books, the very last thing I want to see is a new Bret book. They'll neuter the Virtues and the Treb, take away all the useful magic items, leave the 8 least useful and double the price on many of them, and probably not even give our Knights Devastating Charge.

Our book works just fine as it is and doesn't need any 'improvement' from GW.


Wood Elves, on the other hand...

Vulcan wrote:Why are people upset about the Brets being skipped?

Looking at the last few books, the very last thing I want to see is a new Bret book. They'll neuter the Virtues and the Treb, take away all the useful magic items, leave the 8 least useful and double the price on many of them, and probably not even give our Knights Devastating Charge.

Our book works just fine as it is and doesn't need any 'improvement' from GW.


Wood Elves, on the other hand...

Umm because brets are old and could actually use an update compared to Dwarves, VC, and Empire? Just because some people have success with an army doesnt mean that they shouldnt get updated. Heck I know some WE players that still have a bit of luck with their army

Orcs were certainly fine and needed a book far less than Brets and WE. Dwarves could use it too, but I'm REALLY worried about losing more than I gain. I really like the Rune system. I just want points tweaked.

At the moment, Dwarves are pretty[Mod Edit - Pick another word to use as an adjective. Thanks.] strong. I've never lost with mine. I'd say that Brets need a new book the most, followed by WE. They're not necessarily weak, but they're both two editions old, and we were all getting our hopes up now that the other two outdated armies have gotten updated (Ogres and TK).
To throw my two cents into the "leaving GW" debate, I'm not going to leave the game because of a failure to update my favorite codexes. I doubt I'll leave the game at all. What I will do, however, is start using some of the fantastic alternative models that other companies are putting out due to the ridiculous pricing that GW is sticking to.

I still don't know what to think of ghost21's rumours, but here they are:

Expect mini forces from various places.
I really shouldn't, but there is going to be mini armies like allies or something (not sure on exact wording).
There will be things like an Araby one and Kislev, also I heard Estalia, and oddly some insect kingdom

rodmillard wrote:Maybe I misread it, but I thought Ghost was talking about a separate allies book with rules for Araby, Kislev, Tilea and the "Insectoids" (sounds alot like what some fans have been suggesting for a DoW replacement). AFAIK it had nothing to do with the forthcoming Empire release except to say that Kislev won't be in there.

That's exactly what I meant
(...)
It's an expansion book. I'm told it won't effect the releases of other armies
(...)
Honestly you will see them in WD before book form
(...)
I think CHaos Dwarfs are a FW thing for now, sorry
There are 5 "states" in the book / supplement,
apparently 2 "good", 1 neutrall, and 2 "evil-ish"
and when you think of fishmen?... there are far more disturbing creatures in the sea than just fish... *cough ithilids cough *

But then Harry supports this rumour.

Nevermind, now it ddeserves its own thread.

Kroothawk wrote:I
I really shouldn't, but there is going to be mini armies like allies or something (not sure on exact wording).
There will be things like an Araby one and Kislev, also I heard Estalia, and oddly some insect kingdom

Insects? Not fishmen?

I would like some Araby and Estalia stuff though!

Can't wait for new priests. Morr FTW.

Since I trust plastic warrior priests will (like those plastic wizards) make nice bases for converting robed inquisitorial acolytes, neither can I.

Darnok over at Warseer posted this by an anonymous source:

I heard today that GW have supposedly already made a plastic treeman for the new Wood elves, but that VC, Empire, DE and Dwarfs will supposedly get new books before the WE's.

The treeman, however was said to be on the new monster base and about as tall as the Ogre Thundertusk's banner, and that it stylewise is more living brushwood-forest thingy than an actual anthromorphic tree. Anyway take with a grain of salt as always.

Harry wrote:Sounds about right.
There is a tree done.
WE are not coming any time soon.

My list of armies that come first is a bit different to that list ... but also quite similar.
(...)
I am pretty sure I have the next several fantasy releases sorted.
Confirmed from multiple directions. (So not even a little bit rampant. )
WE and Bretonnians are NOT amongst them.
I have been trying to hint as much for many months now. (... actually well over a year since the wind changed).
I am not sticking my finger in the air and GW are not sticking to the previous release order any more.
You can not look at what happened last edition and predict what they will do next.

Stephanavich wrote:VC --> Empire --> *big gap for 40k* --> Dark Elves --> Dwarfs --> WoC --> Brets --> Woodies.

This is what I've heard the schedule up to christmas 2013, with Woodies ~November. Take with a bucket of salt. I heard the first 4 off one guy, and the next 3 off another. But the second guy seemed to think that inbetween all of these, some Tomb Kings, Beastmen, Lizardmen and a "new army" will get something (my guess is Hierotitan, Beastmen Rares, ??? and some contingent stuff)

ihavetoomuchminis wrote:

Rosstifer wrote:Judging from the rumour tidbits in this thread and others, it will be Vampires, Empire, Warriors then Dwarves. With big kit's soon for Wood Elves and Beastmen. Ish.*

As a Beastmen/Vampire Count's/Warriors player, this is all good news for me.

* Disclaimer - I read things very quickly, so I could have this all wrong. Sorry to the rumour chappies if I do.

From the info me and others have, that's correct.

On a note aside, i'd like to say that i really think WE should be updated. Despite this, i can understand the reasons why it has not been done yet. The rumoured coming armies are more popular, so they make more money.

... and, on new plastic blisters:

Harry wrote:

Evilgenius wrote:To the people that have seen the new WD. Are there any new plastic character blisters released this month that compliment this kit?
I really like the ones already released and am eager for more.

Well you are in luck then as there are (approx' ) 18 more done.

Appreciate the info. It's a shame- I think the Wood Elves are pretty well in need of an update given what a large percentage of their book is substantially overpriced in 8th edition.

I *am* glad to see VC coming around soon, if only to hope that skeletons and some of the selections (other than ghouls and wights) become more palatable for competitive play. It'd be great to see a little more VC variety.

Personally, I think it's okay if Wood Elves have to wait a little longer for an update.

Not because I dislike Wood Elves, mind you. But because I'd rather see them done right instead of having a slapdash of special rules put up to make them work in the current edition.

Kanluwen wrote:Personally, I think it's okay if Wood Elves have to wait a little longer for an update.

Not because I dislike Wood Elves, mind you. But because I'd rather see them done right instead of having a slapdash of special rules put up to make them work in the current edition.

I couldn't agree more. My girlfriend plays them and really wants the update, but we'd both much rather see them come out with awesome new rules and models that make my jaw drop like Dark Eldar did.

I was quite surprised to see Dark Elves (apparently) in line for an update soon(ish), I really hope it's true that they are after Empire! If so, I'll continue not buying the book and just using one online. Should I do the same for Warriors, or is it far enough out that I should just go ahead and buy it? Oh, Warhammer, I love you, but as a college kid with a gakky job, I kind of hate loving you so much.

Edit: Maybe to keep Wood Elf players happy, they could release an update via White Dwarf with just point adjustments? I mean, I know this is complete wishlisting, but I really would like them to do that to hold players over until a proper update.

After some thinking, I've actually started to hope that WE get done in 9th... Worst case scenario would be WE getting an army book towards the end of 8th, getting "streamlined" into the 8th design philosophy and then having to wait until 11th to get redone right again, while everybody else gets his individuality back in 9th...

I'd really love for the Reiksguard heavy foot-soldier models to make a return; even in place of the Greatswords.

As for cavalry, an optional winged lancer/horse archer kit would go straight to the top of my wish list!

Kanluwen wrote:Personally, I think it's okay if Wood Elves have to wait a little longer for an update.

Not because I dislike Wood Elves, mind you. But because I'd rather see them done right instead of having a slapdash of special rules put up to make them work in the current edition.

Who knows with a Treeman done it could always be a random release by itself or accompany some WD article ruleset.

From Gabacho Mk.II, who is usually well informed:

Unless this has been given a reply-

Harry wrote:WE are not coming any time soon.

Satan wrote:Late 2012 or early 2013, right?

2013 Q3
[Unless, of course, the Bret/Wood Elf armybook is still going forward]

During a gakky economy, GW has to increase revenue, so will release the more popular armies to stall a decline in sales. If you want Brets and WEs to come out, go spend more money at GW sp they can feel all warm and fuzzy and give you, what im sure they consider, charity. Until then, theyre not going to spend a lot of time and energy creating something that they will see measily returns on compared to their other goods.

:pinches his nose, takes a deep breath, and begins calmly:

Has anyone paused to consider that Woodelves aren't popular BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T BEEN AN EFFECTIVE ARMY FOR 3 *%&$ing EDITIONS?!?

Of course DE are popular! They were a power army in 7th!

Of course VC are popular! They were a power army in 7th!

Screw it! Let's just redo Skaven, Demons, and WoC while we're at it! I mean, Dwarves need the love, and I look forward to their release, but do you seriously mean to tell me that not just one, but TWO armies will have to wait for 10 years and potentially 3 editions before a redo? Now I know how Deldar players in 40k felt.

WE were Good in 7th edition, though! Not very top tier, but good, and I thought decently popular.

I'm not sure where the "WE aren't popular" idea comes from... from what I've seen, many people have WE armies, and just don't play them currently.

I don't mind the release schedule. Seeing VC come out would be great, Empire is fine, WoC because I play them assuming they don't make my army illeagal... Dwarfs could use some variety, and possibly DE, just to make the current powerbuilds change.

But neglecting WE and Brets... well, what to expect, right...

WE were playable in 7th. Not good. Playable. Big difference. They could never pull off a win vs DE/VC/DoC, but had a reasonable chance at just about anything else. (IE you are an expert and your opponant is no better than "Average.")

The mass nerfing of the movement phase has really hit WE hard, and they rely on their tree spirits now more than ever.

even though I play empire I couldn't care less, except about the halflings!
I will make an army of them, new, if GW actually makes them again!

though GW has never brought back anything I liked or done anything to make me buy anything new in well 10 years, so I won't hold my breath

Well, I'd argue you on it Nagashek (or perhaps argue that almost no army could compete with the 3 you mention in 7th edition) but this isn't really the place for it... we can agree that tree spirits got better (I played all-tree-spirits in 7th, and it was not nearly as convincing as it is in 8th!) and that WE movement advantages have been nerfed hard in 8th...

I believe we can remain amicable on those points indeed sir! Though I am not certain what you mean by your first point, but I did not mean to imply that NO army could stand against those three, only that WE couldn't. Well, unless played flawlessly against a neophyte, that is...

75hastings69 wrote:The new plastic empire hero on griffon is also supposed to be very nice

ihavetoomuchminis wrote:This comes along with the empire release, and it's supposed to be Karl Franz/heore on griffon. Not bretonnia.

Harry wrote:Interesting development.
The first time we have seen a special, named character in a plastic kit.

to be fair woodelfs and brets would need a lot of love to sell even remotely well. they are the bastard children of fantasy along with beastmen....

tarnish wrote:to be fair woodelfs and brets would need a lot of love to sell even remotely well. they are the bastard children of fantasy along with beastmen....

They also need a lot of work to be properly effective, if that makes sense.

NatTreehouse wrote:I just got told in this release:
Dual kit makes Warshrine/College of Magic Wizardlordmobile.

Some new tidbits about upcoming Fantasy releases other than Empire, still a bit speculative and not by the core rumour mongers:

meltedwing wrote:I was informed recently that one of the three army books that are "pretty much done and ready to go" is the Bretonnia book.
I was told the third book is Dwarves. I have nothing on release dates or anything beyond which books they are.
(...)
I think that's pretty evident by the fact that they have three books that are "pretty much done and ready to go". They are definitely not going to release all three at once.

Kyte wrote:I am pretty certain that the next book will be Empire, then WoC in autumn and then Dwarfs by christmas or early '13.
Heard no mention of Bretts, but I heard that plastics for DE, WE and Skaven have been in the works for a while.

phantomtie wrote:I have empire first dwarfs 2nd dark elves 3rd and WOC 4th and that's all I have for the year but harry is the expert.

theDarkGeneral wrote:With the Daemons to be redone sometime next year (2013) for both 40K and Fantasy, we'll see the new Greater Daemon models then.

Kanluwen wrote:

tarnish wrote:to be fair woodelfs and brets would need a lot of love to sell even remotely well. they are the bastard children of fantasy along with beastmen....

They also need a lot of work to be properly effective, if that makes sense.

They mostly just need a points cost hike, along with some special rules for Wood Elves to let them remain a mostly skirmisher army.

Brets just needs that points cost hike. Maybe some new special rules, and some better grail knights.

Kroot, please tell me they're wrong about a new Dwarf book!

I don't want to see it until we hit 9th, where maybe the designers will have lost their magic item allergy.

Think of the runes, man, think of the runes!