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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/02 23:21:56
Subject: My thoughts on the next Ork dex, whenever that happens.
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Sinewy Scourge
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Oh i get ya.
Ive been very stupid today, my apologies
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"Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons."
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/02 23:31:55
Subject: My thoughts on the next Ork dex, whenever that happens.
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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Deadshot wrote:As far as the Bustas are concerned, 1 spot under a trak is a good as a Tank Hamma' to the doza' blade.
Considering Ork psychic abilities, t'd be interesting to see what'd happen if enough Tankbustas believed their rokkits should hit tanks harder... +1 on the vehicle damage table just because the Orks think that's what should happen
Incidentally, there is the bit of Ork fluff about them believing yellow rokkits do more damage...as far as I know yellow rokkits used to be able to have higher strength in the game.
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Driven away from WH40K by rules bloat and the expense of keeping up, now interested in smaller model count games and anything with nifty mechanics. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/02 23:34:22
Subject: My thoughts on the next Ork dex, whenever that happens.
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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By that logic, orks should never roll 1s, except when it is a good thing. They should automatically pass toughness and str tests.
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I'm celebrating 8 years on Dakka Dakka!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/02 23:47:10
Subject: My thoughts on the next Ork dex, whenever that happens.
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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That just makes me think that if Madboys are brought back as a unit, being able to break the fourth wall should be one of their special rules.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/02 23:51:03
Driven away from WH40K by rules bloat and the expense of keeping up, now interested in smaller model count games and anything with nifty mechanics. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/03 02:12:57
Subject: My thoughts on the next Ork dex, whenever that happens.
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Fully-charged Electropriest
Richmond, VA (We are legion)
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Idea: Each ork force gets a Special Rule for whichever Klan they belong to.
As an example, you declare your force as a Snakebitez army, and therefore get the Snakebitez' special rule "Rite of Passage", which basically ignores poison weapons, due to the bit of their fluff stating that they get snakes to bite them when they join.
Or, perhaps you decide instead to do a normal Goff army, and get an awesome special rule that applies to them, etc.
Yay/nay?
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DQ:90S--G-M----B--I+Pw40k94+ID+++A/sWD380R+T(I)DM
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/03 04:34:14
Subject: My thoughts on the next Ork dex, whenever that happens.
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Perfect Shot Dark Angels Predator Pilot
Over the hills and far away.
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KilroyKiljoy wrote:Idea: Each ork force gets a Special Rule for whichever Klan they belong to.
As an example, you declare your force as a Snakebitez army, and therefore get the Snakebitez' special rule "Rite of Passage", which basically ignores poison weapons, due to the bit of their fluff stating that they get snakes to bite them when they join.
Or, perhaps you decide instead to do a normal Goff army, and get an awesome special rule that applies to them, etc.
Yay/nay?
Thats a top notch idea. The only problem i can see with it is if the orks start getting rules for seperate klans then whiney marine players are gonna want special rules for all of the named (read: important) chapters and it would just snowball from there. They could always just go back to the custom chapter trait idea of the 4ed SM codex though...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/03 04:48:14
Subject: My thoughts on the next Ork dex, whenever that happens.
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Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon
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For that to work, you would need them to be lead by a warboss from that klan. Ghazzy would lead the Goffs, Wazzdakka the Evil Sunz, Zogwort the Snakebites, and so on.
The SM already have a system like this in place, why not the orks?
-cgmckenzie
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1500 pts
3000 pts
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/03 05:56:30
Subject: My thoughts on the next Ork dex, whenever that happens.
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Faithful Squig Companion
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Orks need a drop infantry in my opinion. its already possible with Da Vulcha boyz, but something different.... perhaps a Rok? thats more apocalypse scale from the fluff though. perhaps an airborne transport of some sort? sort of a Valkyrie inspired Mek construction, kit comes with either Rotors, jets or some other means of propulsion(Orkified Tau bitz?)
Also, more squiggly beasts, a juvinile squiggoth with grot crew? bigshoota mounted on the back?
-Arg
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/03 06:42:33
Subject: My thoughts on the next Ork dex, whenever that happens.
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Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine
Between Alpha and Omega, and a little to the left
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Argyle Culpepper wrote:Orks need a drop infantry in my opinion. its already possible with Da Vulcha boyz, but something different.... perhaps a Rok? thats more apocalypse scale from the fluff though. perhaps an airborne transport of some sort? sort of a Valkyrie inspired Mek construction, kit comes with either Rotors, jets or some other means of propulsion(Orkified Tau bitz?)
Also, more squiggly beasts, a juvinile squiggoth with grot crew? bigshoota mounted on the back?
-Arg
Stormboyz can deepstrike without Zagstruk, it's just that deepstriking is considered too risky for most people.
Squiggoths should definitely be in the codex for all those snakebites players, and be able to transport ork squads.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/03 11:29:14
Subject: My thoughts on the next Ork dex, whenever that happens.
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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Argyle Culpepper wrote:Orks need a drop infantry in my opinion. its already possible with Da Vulcha boyz, but something different.... perhaps a Rok? thats more apocalypse scale from the fluff though. perhaps an airborne transport of some sort? sort of a Valkyrie inspired Mek construction, kit comes with either Rotors, jets or some other means of propulsion(Orkified Tau bitz?)
Also, more squiggly beasts, a juvinile squiggoth with grot crew? bigshoota mounted on the back?
-Arg
They could possibly take inspiration from Space Marine (the video game)...I always imagined Roks being colossal but in that game there were small that were essentially the Ork answer to Drop Pods. A flyer or skimmer would be a cool addition.
I'd also like to see some way to work Squigs in, even if they were just a "fun" unit. I read Imperial Glory not long ago and there's a scene where an aarmoured column is swamped by a couple of thousand Squigs...now I'm imagining that on the tabletop
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/03 21:20:37
Driven away from WH40K by rules bloat and the expense of keeping up, now interested in smaller model count games and anything with nifty mechanics. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/03 11:43:50
Subject: My thoughts on the next Ork dex, whenever that happens.
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Fireknife Shas'el
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I had a neat idea this morning to expand the role of grots:
"Meatshield" special rule: When deploying the ork player can chose to join a unit of grots to any mob of ork boys. The grots gain the Mob Rule and form part of a single unit. Any grot casualities do not cause morale checks or count towards combat resolution. If the Ork mob chooses to Waargh! remove all remaining grots from the unit as they are trampled to death under the charge.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/03 13:49:36
Subject: Re:My thoughts on the next Ork dex, whenever that happens.
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Im not going to lie, thats a pretty neat rule idea  and totally true to Orks anyways. It might however be a bit over powered, I mean, I already get my mobs shot up and still kick most units ass in CC, getting there un touched would be even easier. But I do like that idea, it would probably never happen, but ya never know.
Also to Deadshot. Giving tankbustas the tank hunter USR makes perfect sense, what are you talking about? I can always tell when someone is a non Ork player because they always come up with this argument "They arnt smart enough to know/do that" to make their point. Orks are actually VERY intelligent, specially compared to what most of the Imperium thinks about them. Are they super futuristic smart like the Tau/Eldar? No. But that doesnt matter, they are effective smart, which personally Id rather have over flashy vehicles. They take junk and turn it into effective killing tools. Not to mention Tankbustas specialize in busting tanks, its all they do, its all they know. Thats it. So you explain to me, without using your standard Ork excuse, how they wouldnt figure out the best ways to blow tanks apart after doing just that, for thousands of years? Pretty sure they would figure it out.
But yea enough about that
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/03 16:22:12
Subject: My thoughts on the next Ork dex, whenever that happens.
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Fireknife Shas'el
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It may be slightly OP, but it does cost points and makes the unit an even larger footprint / target. Most importantly though, it is fun!
With the Tankbustas I actually think Glory hogs would be fine, provided you could take a leadership test to avoid it. I don't mind crazy rules so long as I have some chance of over-riding it.
For example I've just been reading the rules for the Mek Junka, which has a chance of being immobilised, but only if you use it as a fast vehicle. To me this is how the looted wagon should work; you have a choice to play it slow and safe or do something cool but risky.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/03 16:57:56
Subject: Re:My thoughts on the next Ork dex, whenever that happens.
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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KingCracker wrote:Im not going to lie, thats a pretty neat rule idea  and totally true to Orks anyways. It might however be a bit over powered, I mean, I already get my mobs shot up and still kick most units ass in CC, getting there un touched would be even easier. But I do like that idea, it would probably never happen, but ya never know.
Also to Deadshot. Giving tankbustas the tank hunter USR makes perfect sense, what are you talking about? I can always tell when someone is a non Ork player because they always come up with this argument "They arnt smart enough to know/do that" to make their point. Orks are actually VERY intelligent, specially compared to what most of the Imperium thinks about them. Are they super futuristic smart like the Tau/Eldar? No. But that doesnt matter, they are effective smart, which personally Id rather have over flashy vehicles. They take junk and turn it into effective killing tools. Not to mention Tankbustas specialize in busting tanks, its all they do, its all they know. Thats it. So you explain to me, without using your standard Ork excuse, how they wouldnt figure out the best ways to blow tanks apart after doing just that, for thousands of years? Pretty sure they would figure it out.
But yea enough about that
They get blown to bits before they can spread the method. Like with the nids TG. They rampage to ensure the death of the Tyrant's killers, so the method can't be passed on, whoever's tank they destroy blows the up, ior they die by the resultant explosion.
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I'm celebrating 8 years on Dakka Dakka!
I started an Instagram! Follow me at Deadshot Miniatures!
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Credit to Castiel for banner. Thanks Cas!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/03 20:00:58
Subject: My thoughts on the next Ork dex, whenever that happens.
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Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets
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Jadenim wrote:I had a neat idea this morning to expand the role of grots:
"Meatshield" special rule: When deploying the ork player can chose to join a unit of grots to any mob of ork boys. The grots gain the Mob Rule and form part of a single unit. Any grot casualities do not cause morale checks or count towards combat resolution. If the Ork mob chooses to Waargh! remove all remaining grots from the unit as they are trampled to death under the charge.
Fantastic, and fluffy. I would like to see more of this mix-&-match unit makeup with mekboys & oddboys, seeing as the henchmen of the GKs use it to such effect now.
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Paul Cornelius
Thundering Jove |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/03 20:25:57
Subject: Re:My thoughts on the next Ork dex, whenever that happens.
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Deadshot - Not even close. Will Orks die when taking a tank? Of course, but saying they will ALL die just because, its a very good argument. Tyrant Guard are genetically made to do what you mentioned, so yea that makes sense to them, but not Orks. Orks are not genetically designed to die, more like the opposite really. TankBustas should have tankhunters USR, or a remade, better Glory Hog rule. Im not saying the current rule sucks, as it can be used to our advantage, but it can still be a plan changer.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/03 20:29:21
Subject: Re:My thoughts on the next Ork dex, whenever that happens.
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Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets
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KingCracker wrote:Deadshot - Not even close. Will Orks die when taking a tank? Of course, but saying they will ALL die just because, its a very good argument. Tyrant Guard are genetically made to do what you mentioned, so yea that makes sense to them, but not Orks. Orks are not genetically designed to die, more like the opposite really. TankBustas should have tankhunters USR, or a remade, better Glory Hog rule. Im not saying the current rule sucks, as it can be used to our advantage, but it can still be a plan changer.
I like the point you were making earlier, about non-Ork players' ignorance of their strengths. Yesterday, I had to demonstrate, both mathhammer & realhammer, how six sluggaboys would have no problem beating a 10-man tactical Space Marine squad to my mates, and these guys have been playing for years. And right on too about Ork intellect: they might not be good a history, biology, the French they took; but they know how a thing or two about weird science; tankbustaboys will feel out the flaws in a Landraider.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/03 20:31:02
Paul Cornelius
Thundering Jove |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/03 20:29:50
Subject: My thoughts on the next Ork dex, whenever that happens.
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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thunderingjove wrote:Jadenim wrote:I had a neat idea this morning to expand the role of grots:
"Meatshield" special rule: When deploying the ork player can chose to join a unit of grots to any mob of ork boys. The grots gain the Mob Rule and form part of a single unit. Any grot casualities do not cause morale checks or count towards combat resolution. If the Ork mob chooses to Waargh! remove all remaining grots from the unit as they are trampled to death under the charge.
Fantastic, and fluffy. I would like to see more of this mix-&-match unit makeup with mekboys & oddboys, seeing as the henchmen of the GKs use it to such effect now.
Agreed, infact I think they should, because really, it just adds not only to the immersion of the game (because cmon any Ork would SO do that  ) But also be pretty fun to play as. Imagine the conversions one could come up with in that context
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/03 20:32:26
Subject: My thoughts on the next Ork dex, whenever that happens.
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Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets
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KingCracker wrote:
Agreed, infact I think they should, because really, it just adds not only to the immersion of the game (because cmon any Ork would SO do that  ) But also be pretty fun to play as. Imagine the conversions one could come up with in that context
Yeap. You might have to think out the rules for toughness, though, for wounds-to-hit.
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Paul Cornelius
Thundering Jove |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/03 20:33:30
Subject: My thoughts on the next Ork dex, whenever that happens.
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Fully-charged Electropriest
Richmond, VA (We are legion)
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Weirdboyz with even better psychic powers/an upgrade which lets you actually choose which one.
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DQ:90S--G-M----B--I+Pw40k94+ID+++A/sWD380R+T(I)DM
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/03 20:35:35
Subject: My thoughts on the next Ork dex, whenever that happens.
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Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets
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KilroyKiljoy wrote:Weirdboyz with even better psychic powers/an upgrade which lets you actually choose which one.
I would like to see a distinction between the close-combat weirdboy and the shooting weirdboy, each with random rolls, and appropriate hazards, dependent on their specialities.
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Paul Cornelius
Thundering Jove |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/03 21:07:21
Subject: My thoughts on the next Ork dex, whenever that happens.
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Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon
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The conversions for that 'meatshield' could be awesome, like orks stepping on grots or throwing them out of the way. Shame that will probably never be a rule officially.
-cgmckenzie
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1500 pts
3000 pts
4-5k+pts
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/03 21:39:29
Subject: My thoughts on the next Ork dex, whenever that happens.
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Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta
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meatshield rule is fun sounding.
I still think we'll see a big buff to bikes in 6th, don't know how, but they are one of the more expensive units in most codexes.
on a different ntoe a named mek not on a biek would be cool, but what would make him special? big meks ahve alot of flavor as it is with SAG and KFF, what would make him unique.
also I agree on the mroe models being made ,new gitz models, MANZ, swap to AoBR koptas, new buggies, and new big gunz models (preferably in 3 pacs) would be pretty good for us overall.
other models:
i'd liek a new Ghaz as be just seems big and not nearly as intimidating as he could be
warboss on a bike for peopel not good at modeling and the forgeworld one is just way overpriced (though cool looking)
actual old zorgy model with a buff/change to make him and regular wiedboys better, maybe choose the powers they take like librarians)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/03 22:38:18
Subject: My thoughts on the next Ork dex, whenever that happens.
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Sinewy Scourge
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KilroyKiljoy wrote:Weirdboyz with even better psychic powers/an upgrade which lets you actually choose which one.
( Imho) wierdboy powers are some of the best out there.
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"Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons."
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/03 22:40:41
Subject: My thoughts on the next Ork dex, whenever that happens.
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Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin
Dumbarton, Scotland
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Jadenim wrote:I had a neat idea this morning to expand the role of grots: "Meatshield" special rule: When deploying the ork player can chose to join a unit of grots to any mob of ork boys. The grots gain the Mob Rule and form part of a single unit. Any grot casualities do not cause morale checks or count towards combat resolution. If the Ork mob chooses to Waargh! remove all remaining grots from the unit as they are trampled to death under the charge. I'm fine with this, except "do not cause morale checks or count towards combat resolution". That would make orks damn near unbeatable in close combat. Let's say grots stay at their current price. Someone takes a full 30-man boyz squad and attaches a 30-man grot squad to them. Suddenly you have a unit that, for a total of 270 points, counts in combat resolution as 60 men. And because they don't cause morale checks, you'd need to kill ALL OF THE GROTS and 15 boys just to force a morale check. EDIT: Wait, forgot about mob rule. So you'd need to kill 30 grots and twenty boys JUST TO GET A MORALE TEST.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/03 22:44:21
Karyorhexxus' Sons of the Locust: 1000pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/03 22:48:45
Subject: My thoughts on the next Ork dex, whenever that happens.
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Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets
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Jollydevil wrote:KilroyKiljoy wrote:Weirdboyz with even better psychic powers/an upgrade which lets you actually choose which one.
( Imho) wierdboy powers are some of the best out there.
Weirdboys do have good powers (an auto-hit melta!), but they're unpredictability makes them uncompetitive. If you were to have a specialist weirdboy (say, as suggested above, a combat-class, a shooty-class), you would have a role for the weirdboy while keeping their unpredictability in place.
Cerebrium wrote:Jadenim wrote:I had a neat idea this morning to expand the role of grots:
"Meatshield" special rule: When deploying the ork player can chose to join a unit of grots to any mob of ork boys. The grots gain the Mob Rule and form part of a single unit. Any grot casualities do not cause morale checks or count towards combat resolution. If the Ork mob chooses to Waargh! remove all remaining grots from the unit as they are trampled to death under the charge.
I'm fine with this, except "do not cause morale checks or count towards combat resolution".
That would make orks damn near unbeatable in close combat. Let's say grots stay at their current price. Someone takes a full 30-man boyz squad and attaches a 30-man grot squad to them. Suddenly you have a unit that, for a total of 270 points, counts in combat resolution as 60 men. And because they don't cause morale checks, you'd need to kill ALL OF THE GROTS and 15 boys just to force a morale check.
EDIT: Wait, forgot about mob rule. So you'd need to kill 30 grots and twenty boys JUST TO GET A MORALE TEST.
You know, this meat-shield rule might substitute for the fearless rule, which most Ork players don't care for, because of the low armor save.
Whatever happens, I hope the grots and the rebel grots have a bigger role to play in any new addition. This will require new HQs, new special characters, different weapons, upgrades, etc.
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Paul Cornelius
Thundering Jove |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/03 23:02:19
Subject: My thoughts on the next Ork dex, whenever that happens.
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Huge Hierodule
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Plastic Squiggoth sounds pretty feasible, given the current trend for new Codex = new plastic MC kit.
The 'klans' rule suggested above has definite merit... let's see:
Snakebites = immune to Poison (or maybe force poison to re-roll success?), and I'd suggest also Stubborn.
Goffs = FC (no longer given to everyone as default - controversial!)
Evil Sunz = Fleet? Skilled rider (bikes), with some kind of rule for infantry being transported?
Bad Moons = take twice as many optional upgrades (rokkits etc, would require a number of units to be restructured to make this have a purpose)
Deathskulls = ...hmmm. I like the 'claim wrecks as objectives' rule, but outside of Apoc? Tricky to make work, useless against Nids, balance issues.
Blood Axes = maybe get stealth, move through cover, counter-attack to represent kunnin'?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/03 23:20:52
Subject: My thoughts on the next Ork dex, whenever that happens.
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Sinewy Scourge
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A sag mek is damn unpredictable too, doesnt mean he needs changes.
Isnt that the whole point of the army anyways? Thats what makes things fun.
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"Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons."
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 00:04:29
Subject: My thoughts on the next Ork dex, whenever that happens.
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Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets
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Jollydevil wrote:A sag mek is damn unpredictable too, doesnt mean he needs changes.
Yes, it does, if you want the unit to be semi-competitive, useful some iota of the time.
Jollydevil wrote:Isn't that the whole point of the army anyways? That's what makes things fun.
Being unpredictable isn't the problem; as you said, that's the point of the army. The problem is the balance of cost (points, force org slot) versus output; if these things had been balanced, the SAG would be more useful, and I say this from a guy that runs two.
By the way, I am starting to think they might be the answer to the Draigowing, but that's off topic.
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Paul Cornelius
Thundering Jove |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 00:19:46
Subject: Re:My thoughts on the next Ork dex, whenever that happens.
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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The only problem I see with different clans = different perks, is that it would not only take too much space up in the codex, but would also cause un needed difficulty on the table top. Granted, some of them would be cool and all and would definitely be fun as hell, but I REALLY dont see GW putting that much effort into a codex
On the Meatshield. Id suggest maybe something along the lines of, during shooting you can place all wounds onto the grots, though its taken against their T3 for obvious reasons. That way it would be easy to strip bodies from that unit during shooting, which would help balance that whole thing out. Not only that, but then add in when they charge, they "trample" X amount of gretchin, say 2 D6 or something. That way it still preserves the boyz (which is what we are aiming for) but doesnt over power the unit with the boyz being in tip top shape, but also thin out the grots so they dont really contribute to the assault, just like in fluff they wouldnt either.
Hell I might just play test this idea with my brother, that would be a blast
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