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Instead of the holster, just glue the pitol tothe waist and wrap a paperclip around it.

KilroyKiljoy wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:You're the one talking about having to be in the hands. nos is just pointing out that it has to be modeled, and obviously an Infernus Pistol. It could be on a belt (outside a holster), it could be on a wrist mount, it could be over the shoulder (ala Predator) it could be laying on the ground. If you purchase an upgrade, you have to model it. Otherwise it's counts-as.

And it could be on a belt IN it's holster, with the holster still visible. You CAN SEE it because it's right there.

What, I can see a handle? Brilliant. I want to see an Infernus Pistol

Its a very, very simple concept: If an Infernus Pistol is not VISIBLE on the model, you have not required with WYSIWYG. Thats it - no ifs, buts, maybes. You have not complied with WYSIWYG

Let's take a page from Insaniak's book.

WYSIWYG is not a rule, but rather a common concept used to show wargear options on models such as characters, who have a variety of Wargear options, in a quick and simple manner to the opponent without them having to check your army list every time they want to know whether he has a Relic Blade or TH.

Actually it is a rule, that applies to all characters (and the whole of the Eldar codex) - which includes this sarge as he is a UC.

This is normally extended in tournaments to cover all optional equipment

Either way, a holster is not a pistol, and so does not count for wysiwyg.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Gah
BG - apparently you enjoy taking things out of context, and intentionlly misconstruing others.

So apparently if you can see the handle of a stikkbomb hanging out of a knapsack it is ok but if the butt of an infernus pistol is sticking out of a holster it is a no-go. I get it now. Selective choosing on your part is the rule of law.

Again--a powerfist is carried on a hand; it is ok to just have a hand to represent the powerfist?

Very no!

Why is it different for this weapon?

It isn't, that I have read.

Boss GreenNutz wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Gah
BG - apparently you enjoy taking things out of context, and intentionlly misconstruing others.

So apparently if you can see the handle of a stikkbomb hanging out of a knapsack it is ok but if the butt of an infernus pistol is sticking out of a holster it is a no-go. I get it now. Selective choosing on your part is the rule of law.

Impressive amount of making gak up there. Care to rephrase?

Boss GreenNutz wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Gah
BG - apparently you enjoy taking things out of context, and intentionlly misconstruing others.

So apparently if you can see the handle of a stikkbomb hanging out of a knapsack it is ok but if the butt of an infernus pistol is sticking out of a holster it is a no-go. I get it now. Selective choosing on your part is the rule of law.

Is there anything else that looks like a stikkbomb handle? (I'm honestly not sure). Is there anything else that looks like an Infernus pistol handle? Bolt pistol, Plasma pistol, ...

If there's confusion, it's not WYSIWYG.

Does it matter? If you play true WYSIWYG then you have to see it all. If not then it applies across the board. I see nothing that states partial is OK. I've said I don't care. Call the holstered weapon what you will it doesn't matter as long as the points were paid.

Boss GreenNutz wrote:Does it matter? If you play true WYSIWYG then you have to see it all. If not then it applies across the board. I see nothing that states partial is OK. I've said I don't care. Call the holstered weapon what you will it doesn't matter as long as the points were paid.

You have to see upgrades. If nothing else looks like the handle of a stikkbomb, then modeling just the stick in a backpack is fine. Because there are multiple things that look like the handle of a pistol, modeling a holster isn't sufficient.

Boss GreenNutz wrote:Does it matter? If you play true WYSIWYG then you have to see it all. If not then it applies across the board. I see nothing that states partial is OK. I've said I don't care. Call the holstered weapon what you will it doesn't matter as long as the points were paid.

You have to be able to see it is an X, whatever X is. If seeing just the handle identifies a stikkbomb (it does - there arent any other grenades it could be) then that is sufficient. I can see a stikkbomb and I get a stikkbomb

The handle of an infernus pistol looks like a bolt pistol (standard equipment), plasma pistol, etc. So what i see is "generic pistol", meaning what you get is a bolt pistol which is the standard equipment

The whole problem with the stikkbomb example is, what if you haven't paid for the upgrade? Where does this leave you?

... don't model it.

Sorry, was talking about the specific example used, the Big Mek.

UltraPrime wrote:The whole problem with the stikkbomb example is, what if you haven't paid for the upgrade? Where does this leave you?

The same place you end up when you model something that could POSSIBLY be any pistol but pay for an infernus pistol.
Outside of WYSIWYG.

UltraPrime wrote:Sorry, was talking about the specific example used, the Big Mek.

I'm not familiar with the Ork Codex - so the stikkbomb is an upgrade for them?

If you paid the points, model it.
If you haven't paid the points, don't model it.

I'm not sure where the confusion is. Either use magnets so you have options or always buy the same options for a specific model/unit.

When I build my models, I will choose what I perceive to be a useful loadout. However, as I have far, far more points than I can ever field in one go, I chop and change each time I play. This inevitably leaves me with points left over when constructing an army. This is where I add unit upgrades, regardless of what is modelled.

Am I the only person who does this? If it's relevant, I do not play the tournament scene, not my cup of tea.

UltraPrime wrote:Am I the only person who does this? If it's relevant, I do not play the tournament scene, not my cup of tea.

And that's the area that WYSIWYG is normally requested/demanded. In a friendly game it just doesn't matter - proxies/counts-as are fine in friendly games.

WYSIWYG is at least as much for your opponents.
Like the rest of the rules, if you and your opponent have no problems with using some and not others, there are no problems. In a tournament that requires WYSIWYG, you will have issues.

Outside of a tournament, I have a hard time imagining anyone complaining all that much--unless you are the sort that would claim that it was really the other pistol that was supposed to be the infernus. Then this rule is partly written just for you.

(Note: 'you' ≠ anyone in particular)

I do have some regard to WYSIWYG. This thread is about Infernus Pistols. All my BAs that use IPs are holding them, but when using my Orks, sometimes I take Stikkbombz, sometimes I don't.

Bottom line is how much of a douche do you want to be in regards to WYSIWYG? If you have no objections that a holstered pistol is what the points were paid for so be it. If you have to see the actual pistol then feel free to demand it. But make sure you enforce WYSIWYG for everything.

I find it extremely hard to believe that if you took the time to glue a holstered pistol on his hip, which he can't hold because his hands are full, and looks more correct than gluing an infernius to his leg, that the model would not be allowed even in a strict WYSIWYG tournament.

So how would you model upgrade abilities, such as powers (whether they are psychic or not)? After all I want to make sure there is no confusion that my Dire Avenger Exarch has Bladestorm and Defend...

Happyjew wrote:So how would you model upgrade abilities, such as powers (whether they are psychic or not)? After all I want to make sure there is no confusion that my Dire Avenger Exarch has Bladestorm and Defend...

You 'model' those in your army list, as only wargear needs to be shown in WYSIWYG.

Fearspect wrote:

Happyjew wrote:So how would you model upgrade abilities, such as powers (whether they are psychic or not)? After all I want to make sure there is no confusion that my Dire Avenger Exarch has Bladestorm and Defend...

You 'model' those in your army list, as only wargear needs to be shown in WYSIWYG.

But then my opponent wouldn't know what model had what power upgrades by looking at it. He would have to look at my army list. Hmmm...

I see what you are trying to do, Happyjew, but you are failing at it. Those powers are not wargear, and only wargear upgrades require modelling for WYSIWYG.

Just paint the words "Infernus Pistol" on the holster.

All kidding aside, how does WYSIWYG work with conversions, especially if the conversions don't look identical.
For example, if the guns on one of my Medusas is made from copper pipe and the other is made from standard PVC pipe, and the guns do not look the same (the PVC pipe is 3/4" vs the copper piping is 1/2") do they both "count as" or are they WYSIWYG Medusas?

Conversions are always count-as. There's two things to think about though - the Rule of Cool, and if they are obviously Medusas. If you don't have anything else that looks similar to either of them, and they both look the part of a Medusa (big mortar thing) then sure - it's fine.

A pistol in a holster looks like *any other pistol in a holster*. That is by definition not WYSIWYG.

Boss GreenNutz wrote:Bottom line is how much of a douche do you want to be in regards to WYSIWYG? If you have no objections that a holstered pistol is what the points were paid for so be it. If you have to see the actual pistol then feel free to demand it. But make sure you enforce WYSIWYG for everything.

No, just for upgrades. As usual.

Fearspect - if you take the time to glue a holster, which could contain a bolt pistol, plasma pistol, infernus pistol.... do you not see how that fails wysiwyg? This isnt being "strict", this is making it clear to your opponent what your model has been upgraded with.

Its exactly equivalent to creating a combi-weapon with melta / flamer / plasma components. Is it ok in friendly games? Sure. Is it ok in a tournament? No way.

Happyjew - powers /= wargear, only upgraded wargear needs to be modelled.

Get a spare bolt pistol, glue it to his side and give it a big GS silencer looking thing. stick some holes in a melta pattern on the GS on the barrel, and maybe a half-cylinder on the outside of the bolt pistol so it is like that bump on a meltagun. Not counting drying time, it'd be an effort of 20 minutes tops.

Oh, also, cut the ammo clip off the bolt pistol.

Would that be close enough for WYSIWYG nos? Or does it need to be more heavily converted from the initial pistol.