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On two of my BA assault marine sergeants, I used the DC thunderhammer bit. Now the problem is in my list, I have all my ASM sergeants with thunderhammers + infernus pistols. The DC thunderhammers are two handed and look very cool, but it doesn't let me equip them with a pistol. I already have a sergeant with a thunderhammer + infernus pistol modelled on but that's only one of them. Would it be alright if I say that the other sergeants have the exact same armament?

Depends on the rigidity of where you're playing. In some tournaments, your models need to be WSYWIG. That is, everything needs to be represented. In a friendly game, I'm sure it won't matter - just let your opponent know.

You could just avoid all the mess though, and glue a plasma pistol to his hip or a holstered pistol to his belt.

You could go grey knight style and model it onto his wrist? make a small boxy greenstuff mount for it and slot it in? Or an MIU mount on the shoulder or something?

In case you expect anyone to whine, glue a pistol holster on the sarge. The fact the TH is modelled as twohanded has nothing to do with what weapons your model can buy, carry or use.

An infernus pistol is quite an important thing to model - so just "mag clamp" it to his armour.

Clamp it do his armor, or see if you can use one of the wrist mounted ones from the Sanguinary Guard box. Might take a bit of modelling, but it's an option.

Glue a holstered pistol on. You can then claim it as WYSIWYG for any type of pistol if you change your list later.

I'm currently leaning on the gluing a holster option, it saves me extra infernus pistol bits...

Eeps wrote:Glue a holstered pistol on. You can then claim it as WYSIWYG for any type of pistol if you change your list later.

An infernus is a unit upgrade, so if you do not show it you have NOT made your model WYSIWYG. You have shown A pistol, not THE pistol you paid for.

Carrying WYSIWYG a tad bit too far there NOS. So he has a holstered pistol on his side. Does it really matter if he paid points for an Infernus pistol or Bolt Pistol? Who is to say which one is inside the holster?

So... glue on the pistol holster. Make a paper clip rod with a nub on it's end. Stick it into the business end of the holster when it is an Infernus Pistol, keep it out when it is a bolt pistol. Save that for tournaments.

Homer

Boss GreenNutz wrote:Carrying WYSIWYG a tad bit too far there NOS. So he has a holstered pistol on his side. Does it really matter if he paid points for an Infernus pistol or Bolt Pistol? Who is to say which one is inside the holster?

No, not at all. It is ENTIRELY the point of WYSIWYG.

You have a paid for, VERY important upgrade, yet by looking at the model ALL I can see is a holster - for the bolt pistol the model comes with as basic equipment

If, when looking at the model, I cannot see an Infernus pistol - then you dont have an Infernus pistol

I find that if you just explain that the sargent is equiped with an Inferno pistol and hammer most opponets are fine with it... unless they are rules sticklers.

However when only some sarge's only have infernus pistols, you may find people being more than a little suspicous when they always kill the one without the expensive upgrade...

nosferatu1001 wrote:yet by looking at the model ALL I can see is a holster - for the bolt pistol the model comes with as basic equipment

If, when looking at the model, I cannot see an Infernus pistol - then you dont have an Infernus pistol

This first part is untrue.

All you see is a holster, that holster could have anything in it(even a holster!); there are plenty of models out there that have holstered weapons where the Holster does not look like anything out of the ordinary, but the weapon in not a standard side-arm(Creeed is an excelent example of this, twice. He has 2 holstered Hot-shot laspistols, but they look just like regular laspistols in the holsters; he also has a Sabre sheathed behind him, which is in the style of most IG PWs, but he has neither PW nor normal CCW)

The second portion is half-true; The point of WYSIWYG is simple, ready, and obvious identification: if you look at the model you should be able to readily identify that the model has the infernus pistol, but you will see that he has a holstered pistol, and said holstered pistol could be anything, therefore you need to ask the opponent what kind of pistol it is.

nosferatu1001 wrote:However when only some sarge's only have infernus pistols, you may find people being more than a little suspicous when they always kill the one without the expensive upgrade...

I do agree with this, if all your Sgts with TH+Holstered pistol have Infernus you are 100% golden(there is a visual representation of a holstered pistol, and you have explained what that pistol is); if not all of the have Infernus pistolsthen you should at least be constantly reminding your opponent of which ones have the Infernus and which don't.

No, they have a holster. There is no infernus pistol on the model, therefore the model does not have an infernus pistol

If youre playing counts-as, then every and any holster is now an infernus pistol.

No they have a holster that has an infernus pistol inside it. I guess there aren't any cheaters in my gaming club so if a model has a holster with an Infernus pistol in it we take him for his word. Still WYSIWYG in my book as there is nothing in the rules I could find that states a model looses a pistol if he holsters it. Now if you can show me a pahge number that states holstered weapons don't count for WYSIWYG I'll change my mind.

Model a shoulder mounted version. Wee bit of sprue cut to shape, take the pistol and glue it on top, peplcing the grip on the pistol. Or Do a wrist mount from San Guard.

Boss - can I see an Infernus? No. I can see a Holster, so what you get is a Holster

Find me a line that says what you SEE is what you GET doesnt mean exactly that, and youd have a point.

It is exactly that. It is just in the holster. I honestly don't see a problem where a pistol of any type that is modeled holstered isn't what the owner claims it is. It would be different if a player claimed his model had a pistol but there wasn't one displayer or one in a holster.

Boss GreenNutz wrote:It is exactly that. It is just in the holster. I honestly don't see a problem where a pistol of any type that is modeled holstered isn't what the owner claims it is. It would be different if a player claimed his model had a pistol but there wasn't one displayer or one in a holster.

You're missing the point of WYSIWYG. The entire reason behind this rule is to allow your opponent to look at a model and know what it is equipped with. Having just a holster that could be either a bolt pistol or an infernus pistol doesn't solve the problem of identifying the equipment.

Boss GreenNutz wrote:It is exactly that. It is just in the holster.

*Looks at picture of infernus pistol in codex*

*Looks at holster*

*Looks back at picture*

Nope, not wysiwyg. What I SEE is a holster, not an Infernus pistol. Whats so hard to understand about this phrase? I need to be able to SEE the ACTUAL weapon. Anything else is "counts as"

Boss GreenNutz wrote: I honestly don't see a problem where a pistol of any type that is modeled holstered isn't what the owner claims it is. It would be different if a player claimed his model had a pistol but there wasn't one displayer or one in a holster.

You dont see why an expensive upgrade needs to be modelled, as per the concept of wysiwyg? An expensive, vehicle killing upgrade on a squad that generally loves to get the assault? You really dont get that?

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Boss GreenNutz wrote:It is exactly that. It is just in the holster.

*Looks at picture of infernus pistol in codex*

*Looks at holster*

*Looks back at picture*

Nope, not wysiwyg. What I SEE is a holster, not an Infernus pistol. Whats so hard to understand about this phrase? I need to be able to SEE the ACTUAL weapon. Anything else is "counts as"

Boss GreenNutz wrote: I honestly don't see a problem where a pistol of any type that is modeled holstered isn't what the owner claims it is. It would be different if a player claimed his model had a pistol but there wasn't one displayer or one in a holster.

You dont see why an expensive upgrade needs to be modelled, as per the concept of wysiwyg? An expensive, vehicle killing upgrade on a squad that generally loves to get the assault? You really dont get that?

Raging nerd doesn't understand WYSIWYG. WYSIWYG =/= Everything the model uses must be in its hands. It means it must be on the model in some fashion. The argument you're making about how the Infernus Pistol HAS to be out of its holster to be used makes no sense. What about grenades? Like with the Tau, their grenades are meant to be glued onto their belt. So, if it's not in their hands, they can't use the grenade, even though it's on the model?

I guess I need to magnetize either the PK/Choppas/BCs or the Sluggas on my Nobz. That way when they assault into cover I can put a Stikkbomb in their hands so my opponent sees they can throw them the put the CCW weapon back in their hand so my opponent can see them. Nope that won't work since I'd be physically changing the model in game.

To take your analogy one step further. My KFF BM (the GW one mind you not a conversion) has his stikkboms in a knapsack under the KFF generator. All you can see are the handles of those. By your line of reasoning if I paid points for those, he wouldn't be WYSIWYG since my opponent can't see the entire grenade.

Gah

Seriously, do you have any idea what the phrase:

"What you see is what you get" means? The clue is in the bold, underlined part.

Can I see, anywhere on the model, the Infernus pistol? If the answer to that question is "Yes', then all is good. if the answer starts "No, but..." then you have not complied with WYSIWYG. I dont care that you say it is in the holster - i cannot see an Infernus. It doesnt exist.

Note: I have not, anywhere, said it must be in the models hands. If you;d read the thread, and read the posts with slightly more care than you apparently have done, you would see I even suggested clamping an infernus to the model! This render the rest of your rant, ironic given the "nerd rage" comment, moot.

BG - apparently you enjoy taking things out of context, and intentionlly misconstruing others.

You're the one talking about having to be in the hands. nos is just pointing out that it has to be modeled, and obviously an Infernus Pistol. It could be on a belt (outside a holster), it could be on a wrist mount, it could be over the shoulder (ala Predator) it could be laying on the ground. If you purchase an upgrade, you have to model it. Otherwise it's counts-as.

Attach the pistol to his forehead, like Marneus Calgar's sword.



Also, holster ≠ pistol.

Like a hand ≠ crushing claw/devourer/Power Fist/etc.

I agree with Kilroy, though I suggest he doesn't start calling names. No reason to get Moded over.

rigeld2 wrote:You're the one talking about having to be in the hands. nos is just pointing out that it has to be modeled, and obviously an Infernus Pistol. It could be on a belt (outside a holster), it could be on a wrist mount, it could be over the shoulder (ala Predator) it could be laying on the ground. If you purchase an upgrade, you have to model it. Otherwise it's counts-as.

And it could be on a belt IN it's holster, with the holster still visible. You CAN SEE it because it's right there.

No. I can see a handle. I cannot see that it is an Infernus pistol.