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Ogryn wrote:What is a Seer council made up of?

Well, you could run 10 Warlocks (embolden and enhance are mandatory) led by a Fortuneseer in a Serpent. Such a unit is a bit harder to pull off than a Jetseer Council since they can only charge from a stationary transport. The Jetseer Council is more flexible and a bit more expensive. Here you could take some destructors as the jetbikes can move at the end of the shooting phase. The downside of the Jetseers is that you have to convert them.

The Seer council is not nearly as good as it once was. Even when wounding on twos they still suffer against MEQs with FnP due to the low number of attacks they have.
However, they main problem is that they really do need fortune to excel (and even then they are as durable as MEQ against AP4 and above weapons).

Eldar suffer against FnP MEQ so if you must take any assault support then Banshees is the best option really. That said, eldar does not do CC very well.

I think Seer councils would be better if their Witchblades ignored armour saves. At the minute Str 9 vs Vehicles makes them ideal for hunting vehicles, and 2+ to wounds is great for taking out MCs, and even stuff like C'tan(shards) and Talos/Cronos, which other Eldar can't hurt in CC.

If you run banshees make sure you stay away from any defilers. I've fleeted a defiler into assault with a unit of 10 banshees and Eldrad , gave him a hug first and ate the rest. It really made me smile.

Powerguy wrote:

Roadkill Zombie wrote:Just remember that Howling Banshees will be striking at initiative 1 instead of 10 if they have to assult into cover. So you really want to draw the enemy out of cover somehow if you plan on assulting with them.

Might want to read the rules for Banshee Masks again.... Banshees and all the other assault units in the Eldar codex have some major flaws, but cover isn't one of them.

Actually yes they do. That is their major flaw. The rulebook was written with the 4th edition rules set in mind, when assulting into cover gave a bonus to the initiative of a unit in cover and the banshee mask ignored that bonus and increased the initiative of the howling banshees to 10. With the 5th edition rules it is now a penalty, your initiative drops to a 1 if you assult into cover. The exact wording of the banshee mask says it increases the howling banshees initiative to 10, and negates any initiative bonus due to cover or grenades. It says nothing about negating penalties.

The problem is assulting into cover in 5th edition does not give you a bonus, it gives you a penalty by lowering your initiative to 1 while attacking , regardless of other initiative modifiers (such as the banshee mask making your initiative 10) ( page 36 of the small rulebook). So in effect, banshee masks are useless against opponents in cover.

Don't really go any of the cc aspects imo, ss are too slow and hb are too squishy nd you can't transport them due to the fact that wave serpents aren't open-topped, sadly they are going to collect dust until we can assault out of wave serpents

Roadkill Zombie wrote:

Powerguy wrote:

Roadkill Zombie wrote:Just remember that Howling Banshees will be striking at initiative 1 instead of 10 if they have to assult into cover. So you really want to draw the enemy out of cover somehow if you plan on assulting with them.

Might want to read the rules for Banshee Masks again.... Banshees and all the other assault units in the Eldar codex have some major flaws, but cover isn't one of them.

Actually yes they do. That is their major flaw. The rulebook was written with the 4th edition rules set in mind, when assulting into cover gave a bonus to the initiative of a unit in cover and the banshee mask ignored that bonus and increased the initiative of the howling banshees to 10. With the 5th edition rules it is now a penalty, your initiative drops to a 1 if you assult into cover. The exact wording of the banshee mask says it increases the howling banshees initiative to 10, and negates any initiative bonus due to cover or grenades. It says nothing about negating penalties.

The problem is assulting into cover in 5th edition does not give you a bonus, it gives you a penalty by lowering your initiative to 1 while attacking , regardless of other initiative modifiers (such as the banshee mask making your initiative 10) ( page 36 of the small rulebook). So in effect, banshee masks are useless against opponents in cover.

As you said yourself, it was written for 4ed. If you fail to realise how the author intended the Banshee mask to work then Im quite stuned. RAI is about as obvious as it gets. I assume you play by these stupid RAW rules as well?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/278461.page

RAW is all we have. Check the FAQ, maybe something there.

Deadshot wrote:RAW is all we have. Check the FAQ, maybe something there.

No its not, we have RAI and common sense (at least I and those that I play with do). Since RAW is all you have then I assume that you play the way mentioned in the link above? So for instance, if you get a weapon destroyd result on a Monolith then the Monolith gains one more shot? ect ect ect

What?

You can't argue that banshee masks should follow rules as intended because they were not intended for 5th edition at all. There's even precedent for having to use older codexes with rules as written. Here's what I mean:

When the Dark Angels codex was out players had to use the older rules for Storm Shields from 4th edition even though the rule had changed on how they were used in 5th edition. Finally GW put out a FAQ that changed the way Storm Shields work from the codex and they now fit with the way they work in 5th. Until they did that tournament organizers insisted that players use the rules as they worked from the codex.

They have not done so for the Eldar. Rules as written is the only way you can play it if you are at tournaments and such. In your own home with friends play it however you want, but if a person has intention of playing in a tournament or official event in a GW store or something like that RAW is all they can play it as.

Ok, so I assume that you guys will let the moneolith fire one more shot for each "weapon destroyed" result that a it suffers? Since it saays "...subtract by -1 for each weapon destroyed results suffered"

And flickerfields are useless? Since inv saves are only taken against wounds.

Its an automatic draw if both players roll equal two times in a row when rolling for who goes first. Since by RAW you must not reroll a reroll..

ect
ect

Tourneys do most certainly not play by RAW, they play by the rules the TO decide upon. Therefore you should always make sure what the TO will rule by asking him before the tourney starts if there is anything unclear.

That's the problem with that thread you linked. Half of those things in that thread were said without anyone actually doing any checking to see what they were talking about.

I don't have the Necron codex so I cannot answer the question about the Necron Monolith and I have never had the fortune of playing against anyone that owned necrons.

However, as far as the Dark Eldar and Flickerfields, Codex always trumps main rulebook and since the 5th edition Dark Eldar codex gave a non wound unit (i.e. a vehicle) an invulnerable save, then yes, the vehicle does get one even though it is not against wounds.

As far as roll offs go for who goes first, did you bother to read page 2 of the main rule book? It clearly states that: "If the rules require players to roll-off, this simply means that each player rolls a dice and the player that scores the highest result wins the roll-off. If the players roll the same result, both dice must be rolled again until one player is the winner."

It clearly states you can take as many rolls as you need to get the result of who goes first.

The thread that was linked was obviously a half joke thread and not meant to be serious at all.

Maybe they don't do RAW where you play but in my travels I've found every tournament I've been to uses RAW and the FAQ's from GW in the tournaments.

AchillesFTW wrote:Unless their plague marines, in which case the Banshees are going to be screwed over(wounding on 6's) while the plagues can reduce their attacks AND still beat them down in melee relatively easy.

Banshees ingnore bonuses from grenades so that actually not true. But seriously domm the unit first. Even a 10 woman unit will inly get 3 or so 6's if that so doom could increase the casualties.

Avoid beserkers their monumental amounts of attacks will rip straight throught the bashees weak armour ( 4+ ) and you will have wasted an expensive unit


Automatically Appended Next Post:

PhrycePhyre wrote:Don't really go any of the cc aspects imo, ss are too slow and hb are too squishy nd you can't transport them due to the fact that wave serpents aren't open-topped, sadly they are going to collect dust until we can assault out of wave serpents

You can assault out of serpents as long as it hasnt moved. the tactic is: Rush up to where you want to go, weather 1 turn of shooting then deploy and assault. the energy fields coupled with AV12 which is better than almost all the other transports will almost guarantee success. Unless of course your opponent fires way too much at it.

Or if your opponent just moves back and out of your deploy+move+run/fleet+assult range.

Assuming you shoot-and-charge:
I know Dragons aren't assault, but they're here as a comparison for consideration:

AGAINST MEQ:
Shooting:
5 Dragons: 2.78 Dead Marines
5 Banshees: 0.55 Dead Marines
5 Scorpions: 0.55 Dead Marines

Assault:
Dragons: 0.55 Dead Marines
Banshees: 3.75 Dead Marines
Scorpions: 1.67 Dead Marines

Total:
5 Dragons: 3.33 Dead Marines
5 Banshees: 4.30 Dead Marines
5 Scorpions: 2.22 Dead Marines


If you dump your units from a Serpent/Falcon and then shoot/assault, Banshees get you the most kills. However, using this, even Fire Dragons are better than Scorpions in this regard.

If your enemy is a vehicle, it stands no chance.

This is all taking into account going first in CC (I5 does that) and no Exarch.
The Banshee Executioner destroys MEQ whereas the Scorpion upgrades are questionable. The Fire Dragon Exarch is NEVER useful because you can always get another Dragon instead.

Roadkill Zombie wrote:That's the problem with that thread you linked. Half of those things in that thread were said without anyone actually doing any checking to see what they were talking about.

I don't have the Necron codex so I cannot answer the question about the Necron Monolith and I have never had the fortune of playing against anyone that owned necrons.

However, as far as the Dark Eldar and Flickerfields, Codex always trumps main rulebook and since the 5th edition Dark Eldar codex gave a non wound unit (i.e. a vehicle) an invulnerable save, then yes, the vehicle does get one even though it is not against wounds.

As far as roll offs go for who goes first, did you bother to read page 2 of the main rule book? It clearly states that: "If the rules require players to roll-off, this simply means that each player rolls a dice and the player that scores the highest result wins the roll-off. If the players roll the same result, both dice must be rolled again until one player is the winner."

It clearly states you can take as many rolls as you need to get the result of who goes first.

The thread that was linked was obviously a half joke thread and not meant to be serious at all.

Maybe they don't do RAW where you play but in my travels I've found every tournament I've been to uses RAW and the FAQ's from GW in the tournaments.

Ok, the automatic draw was a misstake on my part

Its not Codex>BRB its Specific>General. So by RAW what does the inv do? You have premission to save an unsaved wound. Show me where it says that flickerfields can be used to save a pen or glance? Remeber that this is a premissive rule set...

The exact wording in the Necron codex is "Each 'weapon destroyed' result inflicted on the Monolit reduces the number of shots at each target by -1"

So, every tourney uses strict RAW, that must be why they have things such as the INAT faq ect...

Silly RAW is silly. But this is OT and belongs in YMDC

tedurur wrote:

Roadkill Zombie wrote:That's the problem with that thread you linked. Half of those things in that thread were said without anyone actually doing any checking to see what they were talking about.

I don't have the Necron codex so I cannot answer the question about the Necron Monolith and I have never had the fortune of playing against anyone that owned necrons.

However, as far as the Dark Eldar and Flickerfields, Codex always trumps main rulebook and since the 5th edition Dark Eldar codex gave a non wound unit (i.e. a vehicle) an invulnerable save, then yes, the vehicle does get one even though it is not against wounds.

As far as roll offs go for who goes first, did you bother to read page 2 of the main rule book? It clearly states that: "If the rules require players to roll-off, this simply means that each player rolls a dice and the player that scores the highest result wins the roll-off. If the players roll the same result, both dice must be rolled again until one player is the winner."

It clearly states you can take as many rolls as you need to get the result of who goes first.

The thread that was linked was obviously a half joke thread and not meant to be serious at all.

Maybe they don't do RAW where you play but in my travels I've found every tournament I've been to uses RAW and the FAQ's from GW in the tournaments.

Ok, the automatic draw was a misstake on my part

Its not Codex>BRB its Specific>General. So by RAW what does the inv do? You have premission to save an unsaved wound. Show me where it says that flickerfields can be used to save a pen or glance? Remeber that this is a premissive rule set...

The exact wording in the Necron codex is "Each 'weapon destroyed' result inflicted on the Monolit reduces the number of shots at each target by -1"

So, every tourney uses strict RAW, that must be why they have things such as the INAT faq ect...

Silly RAW is silly. But this is OT and belongs in YMDC

According to the INAT Faq link here on Dakka, the INAT faq does not replace the official GW faq, it just tries to complement it. So yes, they do use RAW. But in this case they also use their own Faq, the INAT faq. Notice that it does not say that they do not use the official GW faq, they use both.

tedurur wrote:

Roadkill Zombie wrote:That's the problem with that thread you linked. Half of those things in that thread were said without anyone actually doing any checking to see what they were talking about.

I don't have the Necron codex so I cannot answer the question about the Necron Monolith and I have never had the fortune of playing against anyone that owned necrons.

However, as far as the Dark Eldar and Flickerfields, Codex always trumps main rulebook and since the 5th edition Dark Eldar codex gave a non wound unit (i.e. a vehicle) an invulnerable save, then yes, the vehicle does get one even though it is not against wounds.

As far as roll offs go for who goes first, did you bother to read page 2 of the main rule book? It clearly states that: "If the rules require players to roll-off, this simply means that each player rolls a dice and the player that scores the highest result wins the roll-off. If the players roll the same result, both dice must be rolled again until one player is the winner."

It clearly states you can take as many rolls as you need to get the result of who goes first.

The thread that was linked was obviously a half joke thread and not meant to be serious at all.

Maybe they don't do RAW where you play but in my travels I've found every tournament I've been to uses RAW and the FAQ's from GW in the tournaments.

Ok, the automatic draw was a misstake on my part

Its not Codex>BRB its Specific>General. So by RAW what does the inv do? You have premission to save an unsaved wound. Show me where it says that flickerfields can be used to save a pen or glance? Remeber that this is a premissive rule set...

The exact wording in the Necron codex is "Each 'weapon destroyed' result inflicted on the Monolit reduces the number of shots at each target by -1"

So, every tourney uses strict RAW, that must be why they have things such as the INAT faq ect...

Silly RAW is silly. But this is OT and belongs in YMDC

Yeah, if this thread continues down this road, it belongs in YMDC, As it is now an argument on RAW and has gone OT to the OP's original question..

I think the question really needs another question to answer well.

For instance if the player knows who they are playing against, then I could see applications for all of the CC units in the game.
Let's say you are fighting IG. Having a unit of Storm Guardians with 2 flamers and a Warlock with Destructor is going to rock against even a big platoon, and then can charge in and finish off the rest. However against something with big saves like Marines, they will do little and will be pummeled into snot when going into close combat. Scorpions can outflank and infiltrate depending on the powers given to them by their exarch, this makes them good at getting close to or taking out something, oh lets say a nice manticore in the back field pummeling the rest of your army with its ludicrous missile attacks. Most IG stuff from the rear are easily killed, esp if the exarch has a power claw. But against Space Marines, not going to do so well with.
Now Banshees are great and all, but without backup, fall short with their crappy saves and weak as strength 3 (toughness 3 too, but hey we are Eldar what can you expect but Toughness 3, unless you are on a bike, the Avatar, a Phoenix Lord, a wraith construct or Eldrad). If you give them an Exarch with all the cheap powers and Exacutioner and a Farseer for fortune and doom, you can do a fair bit better. If you have the space Jain Zar with a Farseer and a squad of 10 Banshees(w exarch executioner), just rocks - must put them in a waveserpent to survive getting close to someone. Jain Zar grants fearless and Furious Charge (wow)!
Harlequins are awesome too and with exception of freakin' Grey Knights Paladans and the Accursed Dreigo (which I can not believe someone posted a question are Grey Knights Competitive? Really they are so broken you don't have to think twice to kill at a tournement) can kill just about anything if you do 3 +/- 1 things. First give them all Harlequin's Kisses except for the Troupe Master - give him a power weapon, take the shadowseer for grenades and making it hard to see them, give them a farseer with Runes - both kinds, spirit stones, fortune and doom, and +/- a Wave Serpent (see later for explanation - don't have a coniption I know they can not take a designated transport). The reason for the Kisses is that they are rending so on 6's you become AP 1 which helps against all armor, the power weapon with the Master bypasses armor, furious charge gives them +1 Strength and Initiative. With being fortuned and the squad they are fighting doomed and the incredible amounts of hits you will be doing - chances are you are going to lay a lot of hurt down even before the enemy strikes. With fortune it makes them more survivable as 5+ armor is crap, but at least it is invulnerable. I like giving 2 in the squad fusion pistols as this helps me pop vehicles or when shooting prior to assaulting killind off 1-2 dudes prior to assaulting with AP 1 goodness. How did you get them in a wave serpent... well I take a squad of Guardians with a long range weapon - EML or Scatter Laser and camp them in deployment or on objective or 5 man Dire Avenger squad. begin them on deployment not in their vehicle, start the harlies within 2 inches of the wave serpent. The farseer fortunes the ride, they hop in and accross the board they go to kill some enemies. I know some people use falcons, but with only 6 man capacity this is not enough for Halies - esp with big squads of orcs, IG, demons or Space Marines. This squad is a Deathstar.... I use it often and love it.
Some one else mentioned a seer council. I think seer councils on bikes are great, but I do not think they are the best CC unit out there. I use one is almost every one of my games, but use them smartly. Here's why they are not the best in CC. For surviveability they are the best in the Eldar Army... A biker seer council fortuned and turbo boosted is one of the hardest units to kill in 40k via shooting... Think about it 3up rerollable cover saves -insane.. A close second would be a fortuned Wave Serpent. Seer councils on foot are not as surviveable with T 3 making it easier for the enemy to wound. They are great for taking out vehicles which is why I usually kit the squad out with 3-4 singing spears, however once in CC they are Tarpits really only. Remember that their witchblades and spears wound on a 2 which is great, but the enemy gets its normal save. This means with terminators or paladins forget about killing too many a turn and eventually you are going to lose models at 4 up invuln reroll. This squad is expensive too. Like I said I love the Seer council on bikes, but I do not think they are the best at CC. I recently played a game against a dark eldar army, I did not know I was playing them and was kitted to take on Space Marines or Grey Knights as my local gaming club has mostly these types of players. My seer council took out a couple vehicles and then got tarpitted with Lileath, wychers, the Archon's squad and a troupe of harlequins... Now thanks to their tarpitting ability this kept these three squads tied up until the last 2 turns. I got lucky and got the charge and shot at Lileth's squad first so killed all but 3 of her squad.. So I did kill Lileth and her squad and the Harlequins and routed the Archon squad and proceeded to escort them off the board and contest an objective. They are great squads if used right, but don't rely on them eradicating enemies in CC. I have had many games where they just get tarpitted or tie up an enemy I really am worried about, but do nothing the rest of the game, so don't expect them to be the powerhouses.

This is just my 2 cents, but I have quite a bit of experience with Eldar and am very passionate about the army, the lore, the fluff, and the race... dorky I know, but there it is.

AchillesFTW wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

PhrycePhyre wrote:Don't really go any of the cc aspects imo, ss are too slow and hb are too squishy nd you can't transport them due to the fact that wave serpents aren't open-topped, sadly they are going to collect dust until we can assault out of wave serpents

You can assault out of serpents as long as it hasnt moved. the tactic is: Rush up to where you want to go, weather 1 turn of shooting then deploy and assault. the energy fields coupled with AV12 which is better than almost all the other transports will almost guarantee success. Unless of course your opponent fires way too much at it.

Same problem, the wave serpent has to survive being in melta/mc+power fist assault range for a turn, if you try that against anyone with melta or mc's/powerfists(which is everyone) your very expensive assault unit will be dead by your assault phase. Also the serpent has to be extraordinarily close to the firing line b/c of the fact that the only access point is at the rear.

remember though, as long as you are not facing the Wave Serpents ass towards Melta it does not get the 2 d6 bonus. I think you can usually position the WS and face the oponent and on the next turn still disembark, shoot and assault with the unit or if it is fleet - far enough away that the enemy can not close with the WS and assault its weak rear armor, but if it went flat out that turn, the Attacker needs a 6 just to hit or a 4 if it went less than 12 inches, which if you are an eldar player delivering troops, you are an idiot if you were not moving flat out. Add fortune to the cover save for shooting and you have a WS that will likely survive to protect the fragile payload. I think it is very doable - not fool proof, but most of the time the WS can survive and your squad can still do its thing. Esp. Harlequins that have fleet and flip belts so they ignore difficult terrain.. Just MO. Cheers

wuestenfux wrote:

Ogryn wrote:What is a Seer council made up of?

Well, you could run 10 Warlocks (embolden and enhance are mandatory) led by a Fortuneseer in a Serpent. Such a unit is a bit harder to pull off than a Jetseer Council since they can only charge from a stationary transport. The Jetseer Council is more flexible and a bit more expensive. Here you could take some destructors as the jetbikes can move at the end of the shooting phase. The downside of the Jetseers is that you have to convert them.

jetseers are great, lay down templates and move 12" avoiding all terrain in the mean time. plus Chapterhouse studios makes the conversion really easy

http://chapterhousestudios.com/webshop/component/virtuemart/?page=shop.browse&category_id=36

As far as harlies go you've got two choices:
1 give them a shadow seer and walk them
2 field a small unit and put them in a falcon/wave serpent.

The benefit of sticking 6 in a falcon is that you can mantain a good amount of fire power before you even disembark your rending payload. Then after you let them out you've still got some firepower to lay down, unlike with the wave serpent. IMHO I think you get more for the points that way.

As stated by Eijul the Farseer, maybe indirectly, Eldar are an army that works AMAZINGLY if ... damn! I can't remember the word! Its where you design your list to counter the army you know you're playibng against, such as taking lots of High Str, Low AP weapons against Nidzilla, or LR Executioners against Termies.

True if you can taylor the list to the army you are fighting they will do very well. I still think A Harlequin squad of 10 with Seer and Troupe master with power weapon and rest kitted with 2 fusion pistols and harlequin kisses with a farseer and stealing someone's wave serpent ride is a Deathstar unit. If points allow a squad of 6-7 seer council with this group will make minse meat out of most squads, stick some Fire Prisms, GJetbike units with Vypers with Shuri Cannons and you have a fast as hell unit that can will be tough to kill and will kill lots. The only pisser unit is the one wasted on getting the waveserpent.

Then amke it something that is good for holding objectives, like Rangers or Bladestorm DA.



Taylor was the word! Damn it! Thanks Eiluj. So frustraitng

Deadshot wrote:Then amke it something that is good for holding objectives, like Rangers or Bladestorm DA.



Taylor was the word! Damn it! Thanks Eiluj. So frustraitng

tailor my friends, tailor.

Heres the nitty gritty of it, with eldar you need to bring the enemies close combat down to your level. If they have a lot of it (orks) you need to thin it out with gunfire, if they have a monster one, you need to single it out.

What?

The simple answer, as our codex stands right now, is to avoid CC squads all together for a fully competitive tourney army.

As the saying goes: If a little of something is good, more is better. Same goes for list building. The problem with Harlies/Scorpions/Banshees is not that they are horrid at what they do, in fact many people have given very good strategies on how to use them. The problem with them is that they compete for elite slots versus Fire Dragons, who are quite possibly the most points efficient unit in the dex.

Are Harlequins beast mode? Yep. Shadowseer gives them a great slot in footdar lists, and the lack of a dedicated transport is annoying for Mechdar but not insurmountable.

Are Banshees good? Yep. Not great, they're pretty glass canon-y (and I hadn't even thought about the phrasing of the banshee mask no longer applying to assaulting into cover), but if you need a MEQ squad dead and can get a seer to doom it, they're probably dead or at least hurt.

Are Scorpions bad MOFO's? Not really. Really the only thing cool about scorpions is infiltrating a PF near tanks, but without fleet and being at closest 12 inches (usually 18) that's a questionable use.

But, Firedragons. 80 points for 5 meltas at BS 4? Yes please. Every army wants these bad boys. If only we had a decent APC to get them to their targets and fast. Oh wait, I just WS'd all over the place. True, WS is not unique to FD's and will supplement the other choices as well, but it's not an assault platform. Can it be used that way? Sure can, but a savvy opponent can exploit this weakness. Not so with FD's. WS can still move 12 and drop them next to something that just plain needs to die.

As I'm arguing that the real choice in what CC units to bring is in their competition for the elites slot, I feel obligated to mention Wraithguard......moving on.

A little out of my main thesis, but to include all possible CC aspects: SS's are an option in the strict sense that they exist. In reality, they're just entirely to expensive to be worth it. To make them work would require a list being built around them, and there are much more flexible units to build lists around that can do virtually the same thing.

So FD's kill MC's and tanks well, while also still being able to put wholes in small elite heavily armored squads (I'm looking at you Draigowing). What they don't deal well with is horde, which is where you would use your other CC units. Problem is, if there's one thing Eldar don't lack in, it's ways of dealing with hordes. Scatter lasers, Bladestorm, triple flamer guardian storm squads. All of those can be purchased via your troops choices (which you have several of anyway, due to the mechanics of the game scenarios).

There's a reason the cookie cutter competition lists (as much competition as our codex is capable of atm, anyway) almost invariably have 3 min squad size FD's in WS. The only other choices we have as elites specialize in jobs that are made redundant by the shear amount of dakka the rest of the army puts out.


That being said, if it's not a competitive list, there are some really great strats. already offered up in this thread. I won't redundantly repeat redundantly what has already been said better, but will say that they can all be very fun to use when used in the role for which they are designed.

As a chaos marine player, I fear Banshees far more than Scorpions. Even my plague marines have always lost against them: sure, they need 6's to wound, but every wound will bypass their armor AND FNP due to being a power weapon, and the Exarch will often have an S5 weapon.

Scorpions may be better for hordes, but Eldar usually will not want to be engaging those in CC. Fortunes guardian fire, Walkers with scatter lasers and prism blasts are far more reliable options to thin those out, IMO.