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The new necron codex lost the phase out rule. Nothing you can say actually amounts of a real nerfed codex when you take that into account.

spam

To those saying the book isnt out yet, its been out since wednesday at LGSs...

Ravenous D wrote:To those saying the book isnt out yet, its been out since wednesday at LGSs...

pics or didn't happen...

leonard wrote:

Bookwrack wrote:Alright. So you've shown you can spell 'nerf,' but lack the even the most basic example of what it means. Congratulations. You want a lolli?

That's all you have to say? Very insightful.

Hmm... it seems like Bookwrack made a pretty good point. Plus, Bookwrack is only responded to your thread, how much do you want him to say?

I'm REALLY not liking the crowd our epic Necron thread is bringing here ... Bunch of cry babies and potty mouthed jerks complaining about an army that hasn't even been mass released LET ALONE PLAYED!

Necrons are my prime army, have been for over 2 years now and always will be and I'm THRILLED for the changes and new codex...

I got to look at the new dex today and I have to say, I see no bad. I was actually happy with the majority of the unit changes and new ones to boot. I don't play them myself but one of my friends has for years. As soon as the pre-post post summary stated things, I spent the next few nights listening to him grip about how his army got f***ed to the point I told him to stop it until the dex actually came out. Well now he is excited since he got it today. As we looked thru the book he got more evcited especially after I told him to quit comparing it to marines. I see a nicely balanced book just like the DE got. I mean we can all piss and moan about certain things in our dex's but until field time has been acquired, don't bitch. Learn its strengths and weakness and adapt. I do it with my Eldar and DE everytime I play them besides, it's a game, just enjoy playing and being with friends.

Polite reminder that image and youtube posts can be interpreted as spam.

Andilus Greatsword wrote:lol is it possible for the old Necron Codex to get nerfed?

I was about to ask this.

And also...

leonard wrote:
Answer this question and you will see that a 4 + WBB save with a range contingent resurrection orb that protects from instant death, is better than a 5+ RP save that is immune to instant death with range contingent resurrection orb that allows a 4+save.

What? I mean...huh?

Before...After

before
4+ WBB
Rez orb = no instant death

after
5+ wbb no instant death
4+ rez orb

So...you're saying that because it's exactly the same as before in a best case scenario...it's been nerfed. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Non-best case? We trade 1 on a d6 for immunity to negation by double toughness and power weapons.
With all the S10 pie plates flying around these days, I'll take that action and call it a net buff!

Vaktathi wrote:Just because a units stats were changed doesn't mean it's been nerfed, if it's points go down as well to make it a better buy, you're better off. (Emphasis added)

No, GW is better off, because now you have to spend a lot more $$$ to buy all those extra units to get you back to an approximation of the effectiveness you used to get with fewer units. And only an approximation, and worse in many if not most ways.

This is exactly what I was afraid of: Tomb Kings in space. So now I have corresponding nerfed armies in both systems. Won't be writing up my analysis of the new codex, though. Not dropping $33 to give myself agita like TK did.

They keep it up, and I'll be phasing right out of GW gaming.

On the tomb kings in space: there is an explanation for that in the codex and it is awsome.

on the Rp: yes it is 5+, but immune to everything except the entire unit being sweeping advanced. my warriors were always being killed of by my chaos friend with his battle cannon. if my little warriors of doom can get up from that, I''l take the 5+

On the nerfs: in my opinion the necron army is looking to be much more of a "screw with the other guy's people" sort of army. the way the units are looking is perfect for this

and 1 last thing: it a game. no need to go all hulk just cus you get a 4+ instead of a 3+

Arandmoor wrote:

Andilus Greatsword wrote:lol is it possible for the old Necron Codex to get nerfed?

I was about to ask this.

And also...

leonard wrote:
Answer this question and you will see that a 4 + WBB save with a range contingent resurrection orb that protects from instant death, is better than a 5+ RP save that is immune to instant death with range contingent resurrection orb that allows a 4+save.

What? I mean...huh?

Before...After

before
4+ WBB
Rez orb = no instant death

after
5+ wbb no instant death
4+ rez orb

So...you're saying that because it's exactly the same as before in a best case scenario...it's been nerfed. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Non-best case? We trade 1 on a d6 for immunity to negation by double toughness and power weapons.
With all the S10 pie plates flying around these days, I'll take that action and call it a net buff!

No, you WBB 16% less often in exchange for no instant death (the benefit of which is lost if you don't WBB) and a rez orb that only works half the time, if I correctly understand the revision. I don't feel like doing mathhammer right now, but if I had to guess, I'd guess that the effective WBB rate is less than the previous codex, and probably significantly less.

Oh, and explain to me again the justification for de-fluffing relentless, unstoppable, inhuman robots into just another 40K race? And let's not forget the NERF of what's left of the C'tan.

The c'tan can still kill most things. plus i believe the extra powers will help.

Hammer18 wrote:The c'tan can still kill most things. plus i believe the extra powers will help.

IMO, the heart of the problem with GW's approach to codex revision is the word "still". It's as if we players are constantly having to salvage things from new codices and to settle for things that GW feels like giving us, rather than getting revisions that improve all of our units and don't invalidate previous versions and conceptions of armies that many of us (myself included) have spent thousands of dollars on. That's what infuriated me about TK in WHFB, and about C:CSM previously.

At this point, I've got IG and Space Marines, as well as 'Nids and two CSM armies (World Eaters and 1K Sons) which were already butchered in the last round of revisions, and I've got the feeling that each of these will suffer the same fate as my other armies.

So forgive me if I "go Hulk" when every time I turn around another big investment in time and money gets nerfed.

LordOfTheSloths wrote:

No, you WBB 16% less often in exchange for no instant death (the benefit of which is lost if you don't WBB) and a rez orb that only works half the time, if I correctly understand the revision. I don't feel like doing mathhammer right now, but if I had to guess, I'd guess that the effective WBB rate is less than the previous codex, and probably significantly less.

Oh, and explain to me again the justification for de-fluffing relentless, unstoppable, inhuman robots into just another 40K race? And let's not forget the NERF of what's left of the C'tan.

Okay...without a rez orb you WBB 16% less often, but don't get denied the roll by anything less than having the squad completely blown off the board.
With a rez orb you WBB exactly the same as you did before.

In the old codex, you would WBB 50% of the time, unless hit by a double-toughness attack, a power weapon, or didn't qualify due to positioning.
With a rez orb, the only way they could deny you WBB was with a sweeping advance or blowing the squad off the board when it was positioned away from other like models.

With rez orbs, the new WBB is actually MORE powerful because there's no more positioning got'chas. The squad takes the check. Not the model (exception being ICs, but we're not talking about them anyway).
Without rez orbs, the old WBB is better on paper, but not in practice with all the tank template-age flying around these days that flat-out negate the old WBB. Ram a S8 AP3 pie plate down a warrior squad's throat and they still get their 5+ WBB now. Old 'dex, without an orb the parking lot parks YOU.

Basically, the OP was talking out his rear with the original quoted line and basically answered his own challenge.

Arandmoor wrote:

LordOfTheSloths wrote:

No, you WBB 16% less often in exchange for no instant death (the benefit of which is lost if you don't WBB) and a rez orb that only works half the time, if I correctly understand the revision. I don't feel like doing mathhammer right now, but if I had to guess, I'd guess that the effective WBB rate is less than the previous codex, and probably significantly less.

Oh, and explain to me again the justification for de-fluffing relentless, unstoppable, inhuman robots into just another 40K race? And let's not forget the NERF of what's left of the C'tan.

Okay...without a rez orb you WBB 16% less often, but don't get denied the roll by anything less than having the squad completely blown off the board.
With a rez orb you WBB exactly the same as you did before.

In the old codex, you would WBB 50% of the time, unless hit by a double-toughness attack, a power weapon, or didn't qualify due to positioning.
With a rez orb, the only way they could deny you WBB was with a sweeping advance or blowing the squad off the board when it was positioned away from other like models.

With rez orbs, the new WBB is actually MORE powerful because there's no more positioning got'chas. The squad takes the check. Not the model (exception being ICs, but we're not talking about them anyway).
Without rez orbs, the old WBB is better on paper, but not in practice with all the tank template-age flying around these days that flat-out negate the old WBB. Ram a S8 AP3 pie plate down a warrior squad's throat and they still get their 5+ WBB now. Old 'dex, without an orb the parking lot parks YOU.

Basically, the OP was talking out his rear with the original quoted line and basically answered his own challenge.

I'll admit that not being negated by pie-plates is a good thing, especially if you face a lot of them. But how much more do you have to spend now to get that benefit, and does it really compensate? I don't have the points for the new rez orbs at hand.

LordOfTheSloths wrote:

Hammer18 wrote:The c'tan can still kill most things. plus i believe the extra powers will help.

IMO, the heart of the problem with GW's approach to codex revision is the word "still". It's as if we players are constantly having to salvage things from new codices and to settle for things that GW feels like giving us, rather than getting revisions that improve all of our units and don't invalidate previous versions and conceptions of armies that many of us (myself included) have spent thousands of dollars on. That's what infuriated me about TK in WHFB, and about C:CSM previously.

At this point, I've got IG and Space Marines, as well as 'Nids and two CSM armies (World Eaters and 1K Sons) which were already butchered in the last round of revisions, and I've got the feeling that each of these will suffer the same fate as my other armies.

So forgive me if I "go Hulk" when every time I turn around another big investment in time and money gets nerfed.

Really? Are you just using the topic of this thread to backboard some lame attempt at complaining you have to buy models? The Necrons haven't been updated for a decade what the did you think was going to happen?

I swear. I'm not thrilled about prices increasing but in reality its not that much. And what's even funnier, you can actually make conversions for the models you don't have for even cheaper. It's not even that, most Necron players don't even mind paying for brand new units for an army that had literally no units to begin with.

Please stick to the thread or get out.

*Gets down* And I take a small bow.

LordOfTheSloths wrote:
I'll admit that not being negated by pie-plates is a good thing, especially if you face a lot of them. But how much more do you have to spend now to get that benefit, and does it really compensate? I don't have the points for the new rez orbs at hand.

According to the rumor thread, orbs dropped by 10 points.

However they lost their 6" range.

But, we have no idea how much minor lords cost so the vote 's not in yet.

Nerfed doesn't seem like the right word.

Perhaps "Reinvented"?

GW clearly wanted to change what the Necrons were and have become.

I agree with everyone who says...

The book ain't out yet. Calm down.

The book isn't widely out yet, as far as I know, but my FLGS has already sold its copies of the codex. It's got the models on the shelf as of November 3rd.

Honestly, I can't imagine how Necrons could possibly be nerfed. They had a terrible, outdated codex in the first place. Anything is a buff for them.

Bookwrack wrote:

leonard wrote:

Bookwrack wrote:Alright. So you've shown you can spell 'nerf,' but lack the even the most basic example of what it means. Congratulations. You want a lolli?

That's all you have to say? Very insightful.

Given that your OP is nothing but 'abloo abloo abloo, all bad!' What is there to say? How about you give a couple quotes directly from the codex that actually back your points up?

Abloo abloo abloo. There must be a meme in there somewhere. anyhow, back on topic. Necrons aren't marines, so of course their new codex isn't OP. But that doesn't mean it's been nerfed into uselessness.

I don't know, from what I have seen the Nercons have gained quite a lot. From a play perspective I feel that they have become reasonably balanced. The old codex had a mixture of extreme bad, and extreme good. I can remember multiple threads asking how to kill monoliths. As such, the too powerful have been brought back a bit, and the too weak have gotten a major upgrade.

The only gripe I have, is the direction the fluff seems to have gone. It feels like its gotten too much of an Egyptian theme now unlike the previous undead hoard theme. I really liked the concept of this wall of soulless machines that get up again when you kill them slowly advancing on your position. It now feels like tyrannical Egyptian kings with petty squabbles fighting amongst themselves, while before it was this large implacable will and desire to end all life.

TrollPie wrote:If the Necrons were any less competitive than in the last codex they'd pop out at the other end of the scale and be amazing.

This made me lol.

Old Crons were poor but with a ridiculously broken HS choice. Lith is not as good, but it did need a rule re-write.

Before you had to spend 360 points on 2 troop choices that hid the whole game due to phase out. No longer. Immortals as troops with weapon choices is a major move forward. Both troop choices are a lot cheaper.

Heavy destroyer no longer being HS, so you can take 3 liths and still have mobile lascannons!

Troop tranports is a major change that will need to be played to see how it works. Having the repair boost on warrior squads nearby sounds a plus though.

Wraithwing does sound dead though - I2 FTW!

Ah, THAT poster.

No, they havent been nerfed. Loss of phase out ALONE entirely discounts every single "point" you made - no longer are warriors a liability to your army!

18pts - 13pts = 5pt saving, or a 28% reduciton in price, for the loss of a point in save? Bargain. Especially as you now get WBB (not WWB, seriously) against EVERYTHING. And its now per phase, meaning you are more likely to still have bodies around for assaults.

RP is NOT a nerf, unless you dont understand what the term "nerf" actually means.

Monoliths were only immune to DS mishap on a 1,2 result, so not that big a nerf. Oh, theyre also cheaper and can teleport from anywhere, even more than 18" awway. You missed that as well?

Warscythes retain the extra AP and now add 2 S, for the minor loss of no invul saves which were ALWYAS GOING TO BE REMOVED. You understand that, right? S7 power weapons with 2D6 AP is NOT a nerf. Really it isnt.

Across the board I2 may seem like a nerf, but you only high I (wraiths) are now significantly more durable than they were, and can come in more units. Did you forget cheaper and with rending as well now? Of course you did.

In short: nothing you have sid is true or balanced. None of it.

There is one other factor at play here; variety.

Regardless of whether the new book is better or worse, at least it has a greater variety of units.

ruminator wrote:
Wraithwing does sound dead though - I2 FTW!

Not sure if it revives Wraithwing, but Wraiths do after all get the option for the Necron "lash whip" that reduces models in base-contact to I1. They also have a Stormshield-equivalent inv. save and, at base price, cost less than TH/SS-Terminators.

So, to recap
- Cheaper than termies
- Jump Infantry that ignores terrain (thus no need for grenades)
- 3++
- Multi-wound with potential for wound-allocation abuse (optional)
- "lash-whip"-trick to bring opponents' I down to par (optional)
- shooting stuff (Str. 6 too, mind you) (optional)
- FA-slot (ok, probably bad in this case competing with Scarabs, but hey.. stiff FoC-competition in a NECRON(!)-Codex, who would have thought!)

Doesn't sound like a nerf to me.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Warscythes retain the extra AP and now add 2 S, for the minor loss of no invul saves which were ALWYAS GOING TO BE REMOVED. You understand that, right? S7 power weapons with 2D6 AP is NOT a nerf. Really it isnt.

regardless of how correct or incorrect you tactical appraisment is for everything else you said, on an old thread many people said the Warscythe was the best close combat weapon. a Necron Lord would wound most things on a 3+ and then they'd be dead with no armour, no inulnerability, no capacity to not feel the pain. the trade off for the new Warscythe is adding +1 to wound but let the enemy make thier saves. you could say that most enemies don't have an invulnerable save but those units were never a threat to the Necron Lord in the first place. it's not like a Tactical Squad would stop him.

though against Ork and Tyranids it helps, not just against thier HQ. then again, MY Necron Lord would always meet his expensive target but now he has a +17% chance to wound and a -50% chance to get through thier defenses.

They have good shooting...

purplefood wrote:They have good shooting...

/thread