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I think Lychguard with Swords & Shields is just fine for 40 points per model. At first glance the price seems steep for an i2 assault unit, but consider this:

They get a total of four RP rolls per game turn. Throw a rez orb in the squad and the only way they die is if you lose combat badly and get swept.

I see them as a nice tarpit unit that can grind down enemy hammer units in attrition, freeing up the rest of the army to shoot.

WanderingFox wrote:Yep... Don't play Tau but I fight them enough to know what's up.

I cannot wait to targeting relay a unit and fill it with Tesla carbine shots, or abuse the twin-link to ensure the ark can connect. There's also the wtf combo of marking a unit that's already tagged by deathmarks... 2+ with rerolls on a rapid fire sniper rifle? Yes please.

Tau really struggle with a robot horde. With only one S6 AP4 template on a 150 Barebones Hammerhead, they do not have the weight of fire to knock down a 20 model unit of Warriors or even a 10 model unit of Immortals. Couple that with War Scythes and Scarabs and that S10 AP 1 One-shot Arrow of Death, the Crisis Suits cannot cut them down fast enough.

You will not win with shooting unless its a massive amount of fire, say an IG gunline. CC will be their main weakness.


I laugh at all those IG players who squeak about Auto Cannons being better than Missiles. Yea... Go ahead and Pen those AV 13 Ghost Arks with your S7 weapon .

Griever wrote:I think Lychguard with Swords & Shields is just fine for 40 points per model. At first glance the price seems steep for an i2 assault unit, but consider this:

They get a total of four RP rolls per game turn. Throw a rez orb in the squad and the only way they die is if you lose combat badly and get swept.

I see them as a nice tarpit unit that can grind down enemy hammer units in attrition, freeing up the rest of the army to shoot.

Last line of RP rule states:

Once all Reanimation Protocols rolls have been made for a unit (passed or failed) remove all your counters from the unit

They would get one per dude, so only one roll. Unless you mean they die in the movement phase (now possible with DE and I believe necrons), once in shooting, and once in the assault... in which case they are allowed 3?

StormForged wrote:

WanderingFox wrote:Yep... Don't play Tau but I fight them enough to know what's up.

I cannot wait to targeting relay a unit and fill it with Tesla carbine shots, or abuse the twin-link to ensure the ark can connect. There's also the wtf combo of marking a unit that's already tagged by deathmarks... 2+ with rerolls on a rapid fire sniper rifle? Yes please.

Tau really struggle with a robot horde. With only one S6 AP4 template on a 150 Barebones Hammerhead, they do not have the weight of fire to knock down a 20 model unit of Warriors or even a 10 model unit of Immortals. Couple that with War Scythes and Scarabs and that S10 AP 1 One-shot Arrow of Death, the Crisis Suits cannot cut them down fast enough.

You will not win with shooting unless its a massive amount of fire, say an IG gunline. CC will be their main weakness.


I laugh at all those IG players who squeak about Auto Cannons being better than Missiles. Yea... Go ahead and Pen those AV 13 Ghost Arks with your S7 weapon .

I could see Tau start bringing more seeker Missiles (or I'm thinking about it) to try and up the rate of fire.

Seeker Missiles would be great for the AV 13 Vehicles and possibly Destroyers, but won't really make a dent in anything else.

So far from looking at more common builds that I can see comming *cough scarabs and storm lord immortals spam etc with night fighting powers*

bring search lights for range

fast attack choices may help alot actually with outflank and some other way to take out big threat units i.e. snipers

More flamer templates

Alternatively, you can try to out range the bulk of the necron army as well if you can somehow do a mobile gun line. Most of their guns seem to be best at 24'. HB and lascannons are 36-48' along with artillery.

I can see jaws killing some things but I can see the rune priest being killed early on. They become a high priority target and thus first on the death block.

StormForged wrote:Seeker Missiles would be great for the AV 13 Vehicles and possibly Destroyers, but won't really make a dent in anything else.

True, but it would help us pop some more tanks, let us focus the railguns on bigger and badder things.


And with more Night flghting, Tau need to look into adding Blacksun Filters into the army. Especially on our longer ranged Weapon Squads like Deathrains and the Hammerheads (maybe the Broadsides too if you can find the points) which really wouldn't be that hard for tanks.


An Example: On all of my Vehicles, I run Flechettes to deter CC. I could drop the Flechettes off of my Hammerheads and give all four of my Tanks (2 hammerheads and 2 Devilfish) Blacksun Filters, which would turn my Nightfighting range on the Hammerheads from 6-36 to 12-72. While my hammerheads would now have to worry about CC more than usual, it wouldn't be too big of a problem compared to not seeing the enemy since the Hammerhead should be moving 12 inches every turn anyways.

Kura wrote:

Griever wrote:I think Lychguard with Swords & Shields is just fine for 40 points per model. At first glance the price seems steep for an i2 assault unit, but consider this:

They get a total of four RP rolls per game turn. Throw a rez orb in the squad and the only way they die is if you lose combat badly and get swept.

I see them as a nice tarpit unit that can grind down enemy hammer units in attrition, freeing up the rest of the army to shoot.

Last line of RP rule states:

Once all Reanimation Protocols rolls have been made for a unit (passed or failed) remove all your counters from the unit

They would get one per dude, so only one roll. Unless you mean they die in the movement phase (now possible with DE and I believe necrons), once in shooting, and once in the assault... in which case they are allowed 3?

For starters, it costs 5 points to swap the Warscythes for Dispersion shields and Hyperphase swords.

and Kura, As long you continue to pass your RP, then it is possible to test it 3 times in a game turn.

It is unfortunately ambiguous. "once all reanimation protocol's have been made for a unit" (good or bad) "remove all counters from the unit." You roll at the end of a phase. Once you've finished rolling, at the end of that phase, that could quite easily be it.

Personally I doubt you get to roll that many times in either players turns (yours or theirs) as that would be unstoppable (do the math ) - I think it allows for necrons to "get back up" at all points during a game turn; whether it be from dangerous terrain tests, enemy shooting, either assault phase resolutions or "get's hot" rule. Not they have any amateur Plasma weaponry. (well their is a way a re-animation model could loose a wound in its own shooting phase, the reason in this very codex but I digress).

In fact, as it clearly doesn't mention anything about "at the end of a game/player turn, remove all counters from the unit" the only option could be you refresh at the start of every new phase. Otherwise, but the logic mentioned here, the pool would never refresh, as its being assumed that the rules state you remove your counters at the end of turn (which it clearly does not state). Ah good, problem solved

And with more Night flghting, Tau need to look into adding Blacksun Filters into the army. Especially on our longer ranged Weapon Squads like Deathrains and the Hammerheads (maybe the Broadsides too if you can find the points) which really wouldn't be that hard for tanks.

Deathrains are the twin linked missile pods right? My suggestion for Suit load-outs; Burst + Missile or Plasma + Burst. Get as many shots as possible at 18"...

Andilus Greatsword wrote:2. Almost non-existent psychic defense. All I saw were Canopek Spyders, and they only have a 3" bubble of protection, which is next to useless. I predict that psychic-reliant armies, like Grey Knights and Eldar, are going to have a lot of fun with the 'Crons.

I haven't yet read the rules, but does the 3" bubble affect entire units like the Blood Chalice? If so, a Newcron player could form several 'phalanxs' of ranged units directly beside the Spyder, hence only one or two models need to be within the bubble. A tight knit line of Spyders with Immortals, Deathmarks or other ranged units would be dangerous.

Deathly Angel wrote:

Andilus Greatsword wrote:2. Almost non-existent psychic defense. All I saw were Canopek Spyders, and they only have a 3" bubble of protection, which is next to useless. I predict that psychic-reliant armies, like Grey Knights and Eldar, are going to have a lot of fun with the 'Crons.

I haven't yet read the rules, but does the 3" bubble affect entire units like the Blood Chalice? If so, a Newcron player could form several 'phalanxs' of ranged units directly beside the Spyder, hence only one or two models need to be within the bubble. A tight knit line of Spyders, Immortals, Deathmarks and any other shooting unit would be a great strategy.

Yes, but you are only getting that 4+ against Psychic powers that target you and some of the best powers in this game doesnt target your unit.
It's still a pretty great ability though.

StormForged wrote:

And with more Night flghting, Tau need to look into adding Blacksun Filters into the army. Especially on our longer ranged Weapon Squads like Deathrains and the Hammerheads (maybe the Broadsides too if you can find the points) which really wouldn't be that hard for tanks.

Deathrains are the twin linked missile pods right? My suggestion for Suit load-outs; Burst + Missile or Plasma + Burst. Get as many shots as possible at 18"...

I do agree on the Bladestorms(plasma+burst) but not the Firestorms( Burst Missile)

I still believe that tau need to take the Deathrains because they are great at what they do, Popping light tanks and transports

Firestorms, while cheap, miss out on one of the best things our Crisis Suits can bring to the field, The TEQ Killing, FNP bubble popping, Plasma Gun.

IMO the three squads of suits that will help weather the darkness (and it's always darkest before the Dawn!) until the Dawn of our New Codex are:

Deathrains for Light Tank popping

Bladestorms( Extra points for a Centurion Commander[shas'el with Cyclic Ion Blaster/Plasma Rifle/Targetting array, HW Multitracker} with the Squad) for Infantry popping

and FireKnives(Plasma/Missile) for "Jack of all trades" Support.

I may have to swap out my razor back heavy bolters for laz/plaz to blow up scarabs @_@

For further ranged anti tank options, wouldn't it be possible to cryptek spam? Upgrade them all to Harbinger of Destruction, and they automatically come with an Eldrich Lance. Seems like it might be a cheap way to add a 36" range, strength 8 shot to all of your units for some added utility.

Lokas wrote:Fragile I'll agree with you on, but slow? God no. 7-12" move, and a 12" charge? That's still a turn 2 or 3 charge for them, depending on how aggressive your opponent is.

And their entropic touch could turn a humble gauss flayer into a lethal anti-tank weapon. I mentioned this in another thread, but a 10, 10, 10 Land Raider ain't all that scary. That Raider zipping around at cruising speed? 9, 9, 9. Or 8, 8, 8. Suddenly strength 4 weapons are causing scores of penetrating hits.

They're Beasts so they'll have a 1-6" move 1-6" Run and a 2-12" assault. Terrain can mitigate any of these rolls , and if you want your scarabs to stay alive you'll have to take advantage of it.

Threads like these are tremendously interesting to me - in seeing how people perceive a codex's functionality prior to it hitting tables en mass.

I tend to enjoy comparing perceptions of codices several months (or years) after release, to "codex review" threads. It's often quite humorous

BUT, onwards!

A big hidden weakness for necrons, is the Ghost Ark, Command Barge, Annihilation Barge, and Doomsday Ark are all open-topped - so glances are only working on -1, instead of -2. Meaning you only need a 5 on the damage chart to destroy it if you glance. This means that Dark Eldar Haywire weapons will certainly worry necrons.

Necron's ability to destroy larger AV at long range is potentially tough. The Doomsday Ark is frightening, but one has to take into mind that it may scatter. The Doom Scythe with it's str10 AP1 is a great can opener, but it's range is random. It hits all units (one hit per model hit) in a line drawn within 12" of the Doom Scythe, anywhere randomly determined from 3" 18" further on.

Past that, Triach Stalkers and Heavy Destroyers can have Heavy Gauss Cannons, which are str9 ap2, and 34" range.

Everything else is in the 24" range bubble.

EDIT: Hold on, there's the Tachyon Arrow which IC's can equip. Infinite range, strength 10, AP1. Only one shot, however.

Oddly enough, horde lists are going to be a bit of a problem to many Necron lists.
This is really just logic in the end: Necrons have a lot of high-strength AP2 and power weapons, so armour saves won't defend you.
Vehicles are a no-go, the Doom Scythe is basically enough to single-handedly end the parking lot as an acceptable play style (couldn't they at least have made it not fire its "insta-penetrate 1-3 vehicles with AP1, no need to roll to hit" beam when it deep strikes? That too much to ask?).
Horde lists can take buckets of stuff and keep on ticking, they can take the doom scythe's hilariously powerful attack, they can take twin linked tesla destroyers.
So basically just field a crapton of models and make sure they can do something to AV11 and something to AV14 and you should be able to survive.

mynamelegend wrote:Oddly enough, horde lists are going to be a bit of a problem to many Necron lists.
This is really just logic in the end: Necrons have a lot of high-strength AP2 and power weapons, so armour saves won't defend you.
Vehicles are a no-go, the Doom Scythe is basically enough to single-handedly end the parking lot as an acceptable play style (couldn't they at least have made it not fire its "insta-penetrate 1-3 vehicles with AP1, no need to roll to hit" beam when it deep strikes? That too much to ask?).
Horde lists can take buckets of stuff and keep on ticking, they can take the doom scythe's hilariously powerful attack, they can take twin linked tesla destroyers.
So basically just field a crapton of models and make sure they can do something to AV11 and something to AV14 and you should be able to survive.

feels like we're on the edge of the rise of the orks! *not sure if foot guard can hack it since their CC is so weak and necrons can usually outshoot them*

The new necron codex really bends IG over a chair and does bad things to it. Foot guard doesn't really like T5 3++ save models all over the freaking place, and mech guard are sitting ducks against the Doom Scythe (may it burn).
Basically, if you're fielding guard against Necrons, you're going to have a very harsh uphill battle no matter what, assuming the foe's necron list is built even remotely competently.
Oh well, I guess we had a good few years.

Only against crons who can get the proper units to attack your back-field. If something goes wrong you'll barrage us into paste like you do everyone else.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the other side of things, warrior spam will be a good defense for 'crons against horde armies like orks and 'nids. Triarch Stalker + warrior and immortal spam will do wonders to thin the horde.

Also, Trazyn the Infinite will single handedly de-horde your opponent for you (assuming you support him sufficiently).

And while we lost the ability to portal units out of melee, you can do something similar if you take Nemesor Zahndrekh and a C'tan shard. Get the shard into melee with the nasties, and use Zahndrekh to give him hit & run.

Then just pass your I test and proceed to blow the ork/nid unit off the board during your turn like you would with any hit & run unit.

You can do the same with Zahndrekh's bodyguard, only with less precision.

Foot-horde FNP Blood Angels is, for me, the primary necron weakness.

They don't have the combat punch or tonnes of S6/7/8/9/10 AP3/2/1 to actually beat these guys up, and the simple weakness of the 'dex is combat.

Some interesting notes regarding the Necron CC options. Beware, this post contains summaries of Mathammer

Going to compare a full squad of the three main melee options they have, versus a squad of 30 orks (with a nob, and his powerklaw), and a squad of terminators. The two infantry extremes, basically. All of these are assuming the necron player got the charge - which is quite important.

Against 30 Slugga Boyz w/ Nob (220pts)

6 Wraiths (210pts)
Combat ends after second assault phase - Orks win with 17 to 18 orks left, as well as the nob.

20 Flayed Ones (260pts)
Combat ends after second assault phase - Flayed Ones win, with about 6 models remaining.

10 Lychguard (400pts)
Surprisingly close, but very long winded.
Combat ends after 5th assault phase, Orks win, but with only the Nob remaining, and possibly a lone boy.


Against 10 Terminators (400pts)

6 Wraiths (210pts)
Combat ends after 4 assault phases - Terminators win, with half surviving.

20 Flayed Ones (260pts)
Another long winded one
Combat ends after 5 assault phases - Flayed Ones win, with 11 models remaining.

10 Lychguard (400pts)
Laughably one sided.
Combat ends after two assault phases - Lychguard win with only 2 casualties.

Reconstruction Protocals is a really nice boon cases where present, I must say.

Still, it's quite interesting to look at the results. Flayed Ones certainly have their use, in regards to the results compared to their point cost.

Made several mistakes in the calcs, as I'm still learning the new necron codex. Have done a revised version posted later on xP

did you add whips or beamers to the wraiths?

(I1 enemies in base contact)

And a Initiative or str check, i forget which, or die 6" assault 1 (No Saves) shooting attack for 15 points on wraiths .

Kharrak wrote:Some interesting notes regarding the Necron CC options. Beware, this post contains summaries of Mathammer

Going to compare a full squad of the three main melee options they have, versus a squad of 30 orks (with a nob, and his powerklaw), and a squad of terminators. The two infantry extremes, basically. All of these are assuming the necron player got the charge - which is quite important.

Against 30 Slugga Boyz w/ Nob (225pts)

20 Flayed Ones (260pts)
Combat ends after second assault phase - Flayed Ones win, with about 6 models remaining.

Against 10 Terminators (400pts)

20 Flayed Ones (260pts)
Another long winded one
Combat ends after 5 assault phases - Flayed Ones win, with 11 models remaining.

Reconstruction Protocals is a really nice boon cases where present, I must say.

Still, it's quite interesting to look at the results. Flayed Ones certainly have their use, in regards to the results compared to their point cost.

You make flayed ones not seem awful... Maybe I'll go buy.... 220 dollars for 20 models (before 13% tax)? Die in a fire GW.

Kharrak wrote:Threads like these are tremendously interesting to me - in seeing how people perceive a codex's functionality prior to it hitting tables en mass.

Well we're still going to be fighting Necrons between then and now, so this thread is sort of a primer for those of us who are hoping to fight Necrons in the coming weeks as the newbies settle into to their new Codex.

Tyrs13 wrote:did you add whips or beamers to the wraiths?

(I1 enemies in base contact)

And a Initiative or str check, i forget which, or die 6" assault 1 (No Saves) shooting attack for 15 points on wraiths .

Nope, just used vanilla variations of each. Wouldn't effect the result of the combat with the terminators, since they hit at I1 anyway, though it would definitely have a better time with coils = the fight would still end in Ork victory, but with only 9 boyz and a nob left, rather than 17 or 18 boyz.

Of course, this is all mathhammer, so it's all formula based averages. Your mileage may vary

Razerous wrote:It is unfortunately ambiguous. "once all reanimation protocol's have been made for a unit" (good or bad) "remove all counters from the unit." You roll at the end of a phase. Once you've finished rolling, at the end of that phase, that could quite easily be it.

Personally I doubt you get to roll that many times in either players turns (yours or theirs) as that would be unstoppable (do the math ) - I think it allows for necrons to "get back up" at all points during a game turn; whether it be from dangerous terrain tests, enemy shooting, either assault phase resolutions or "get's hot" rule. Not they have any amateur Plasma weaponry. (well their is a way a re-animation model could loose a wound in its own shooting phase, the reason in this very codex but I digress).

In fact, as it clearly doesn't mention anything about "at the end of a game/player turn, remove all counters from the unit" the only option could be you refresh at the start of every new phase. Otherwise, but the logic mentioned here, the pool would never refresh, as its being assumed that the rules state you remove your counters at the end of turn (which it clearly does not state). Ah good, problem solved

Not sure why there's confusion on this, personally. It seems pretty clear to me.

You lose 4 necrons in a phase. At the end of the phase, you roll for RP and 2 get back up. The reanimation protocol rolls have been made for the unit, so you remove the counters and the other 2 necrons are dead for good. If you lose 3 more necrons on a subsequent phase, roll for those 3 RP only, since the counters for the two that failed earlier have been removed.

mynamelegend wrote:The new necron codex really bends IG over a chair and does bad things to it. Foot guard doesn't really like T5 3++ save models all over the freaking place, and mech guard are sitting ducks against the Doom Scythe (may it burn).
Basically, if you're fielding guard against Necrons, you're going to have a very harsh uphill battle no matter what, assuming the foe's necron list is built even remotely competently.
Oh well, I guess we had a good few years.

Guard can still handle Necrons, its just that you can't really rely on your Melta/Vet spam (thank you Necrons!). You actually have to think about using the different Leman Russ Patterns or Manticore spam (which, in theory, should work really well). IG Gunlines now have to think outside of the 'AutoCannon Spam' box and invest in a couple squads of missiles or las cannons.

And Rough Riders as a counter charging unit would be phenominal in winning close combat.

Keep up the good work Necrons! Makin' people think outside the box already!