Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

warspawned wrote:Did you include their re-rolls?

I did indeed ;P

SOFDC wrote:Were the lychguard results with or without shields?

Without the shields.

I may try it out with shields, but the fact that their CC weapons change from power weapons to weapons with rending and entropic strike deterred me.

EDIT: Actually, I'll work on some calcs with the shields - but later today!

Kharrak wrote:

warspawned wrote:Did you include their re-rolls?

I did indeed ;P

SOFDC wrote:Were the lychguard results with or without shields?

Without the shields.

I may try it out with shields, but the fact that their CC weapons change from power weapons to weapons with rending and entropic strike deterred me.

EDIT: Actually, I'll work on some calcs with the shields - but later today!

Hyperphase swords are power weapons.

The Preateorians are the one that switches to a rending weapon.

Sasori wrote:Hyperphase swords are power weapons.

The Preateorians are the one that switches to a rending weapon.

Do'h. I really should stop posting at all until I've learned everything off by heart xP

But yeah, I'll do a calc later with the sheild + hyperphase swords stuff.

I'm kind of curious how long a squad of purifiers will last vs these guys.

Hyperphase swords are still power weapons. It's the praetorians Void blade that is rending and entropic, not the Lychguard Shield + Hyperphase.

EDIT: NINJA!

Also, purifiers with halberds will probably react favorably due to hammerhand halberds.

seen it somewhere else that sword and shield lych vs TH/SS termi's is a draw, if they start with the same number of models each whoever charges wins, but they only lose about a model each a turn or something.

After reading the codex, I find Necrons to be a formidable army, able to contend with anyone.

Necron OVERLord, Rez Orb, + 20 warriors. 20 guass shots a turn while walking up. (Relentless with phearon upgrade, and if you have a stalker and shot at a unit/tank... these warriors shooting at same target are twin linked)

The Wraiths as jump infantry, and the Scarabs with the beast rule are great F/A choices IMO

I may be wrong, but does it actually say you have to roll to hit with the Death Ray from a Doom Scyth? I know its silly, but it gives specific instructions on how to fire it, no where does it say "roll to hit"

I do not see the logic on their transports. Arc can carry 10 warriors, warriors can go up to 20? Maybe buy the arc to drive beside a unit of 15/20? Use the repair.

Night Scyth, carry 15 models, but Warriors cant take it.. immortals who cap out at 10 can however...

You hear alot about SW this, or Blood angels that. I think one of the greatest combos on the board. Is taking Nem Z and his body guard HQ as well. Stick the body guard with lych guard, (shields up grade). Then use body guards veil to go near a unit you like. Use Nem Z to give you lychguard counter attack, and take away 1 of the special abilities of the enemy unit you just deep struck next to.

Your opponent can not ignore that move.... So now they are forced to take some attentions off the Doom Scyths, the scarabs running up, and the wraiths jumping to your face. Not to mention the C-Tan......

Speaking of which, i play space wolfs, i love dropping a drop pod first turn with 8 wolf guard with combi meltas next to the biggest HQ/ Tank on the board. Give the C-tan firelord, walk him up next to your monolith to make sure this does not happen.

Taking a Cryptek will give a second unit the veil run around trick....



I really see no use in the bikes, the destroyers, preatorians are great but inferior to lychguard on paper IMO. The "mech" army thing to me is not worth it. So forget the transports.

I like immortals, but being only 10 deep.. they may get wiped out first turn. But again if they get focused (as they walk up with the tesla), then your opponent once again is not focusing on Scarabs, Lych, or doom Scythes.

On a side note, when do you think they will release the next wave of models? Doom ships, wraiths, spiders, and possibly new scarabs?

shadzinator wrote:seen it somewhere else that sword and shield lych vs TH/SS termi's is a draw, if they start with the same number of models each whoever charges wins, but they only lose about a model each a turn or something.

5V5

Assault Terminators charge
I2: Necrons - 38% chance of 1 unsaved wound, 21% chance of 2 Unsaved wounds, 7% chance of 3 - Assuming 1
I1: Thunder Hammers 12 attacks: 32% chance of 1 unsaved wound, 28% chance of 2 unsaved wounds; 15% chance of 3

With luck, the Assault Terminators will deal 2 wounds more than the necron, allowing for high probability of sweeping advance, but statistically a draw is likely or a morale save at 9, Ressurection Protocols give a slight statistical edge to the necron if they don't get swept. With a 33% chance of regaining a lost unit for the second round of CC. The second round of CC will most likely see 1 more terminator die, and 1 or 2 more necrons die, counterbalanced by Res for a slight overall for the necrons.

Okay, here we go, using the same assumptions as before (perfect piling in, Necrons always have the assault)

10 Lychguard with Dispersion Shields and Hyperphase Swords (450pts)

29 Sluggas + Powerklaw, Bosspole Nob (220pts))
Two rounds of assault, after which Orks run. 6 boys and the nob survive. 8 Lychguard survive.

10 Terminators (400pts)
Two rounds of assault, terminators wiped out. 9 Lychguard survive.

10 Assault Terminators with Lightning Claws (400pts)
Three to four rounds of assault, Terminators wiped out. 5 Lychguard survive.

10 Assault Terminators with Storm Shields and Thunderhammers (400pts)
Six rounds of assault, Terminators wiped out. 5 Lychguard survive.

Heh, interesting results, particularly when compared to the vanilla lychguard results.

Glad to see Lychguard can take Terminators, even if it is generous assuming Lychguard get the charge. They're definitely killy, but at 400+ points I'd hope that's the case. I just can't help but think how much more I could be getting spending those points elsewhere: 2 Monoliths..2x10 Scarabs/2 Spyders..12 Wraiths, etc.

Tsilber wrote:Necron Lord, Rez Orb, + 20 warriors. 20 guass shots a turn while walking up. (Relentless, and if you have a stalker and shot at a unit/tank... these warriors shooting at same target are twin linked)

I think you need to re-read the Codex; Necron Lords do not make Warriors Relentless, a Necron Overlord with the Phaeron upgrade does.

Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Tsilber wrote:Necron Lord, Rez Orb, + 20 warriors. 20 guass shots a turn while walking up. (Relentless, and if you have a stalker and shot at a unit/tank... these warriors shooting at same target are twin linked)

I think you need to re-read the Codex; Necron Lords do not make Warriors Relentless, a Necron Overlord with the Phaeron upgrade does.

And that is really costly and still extremely prone to getting swept. Phaeron+Warriors seems a poor use of an Overlord, especially since Overlord can't take Orb. Even a regular Lord+Orb is 75 points...I'd just as soon take more Warriors.

The problem with those assault assumptions is that Lychguard, realistically, aren't getting the charge, since they lack a delivery mechanism-- unlike Assault Terminators, who can benefit from the Land Raider, a Librarian's Gate of Infinity, a Stormraven, etc.

whigwam wrote:

Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Tsilber wrote:Necron Lord, Rez Orb, + 20 warriors. 20 guass shots a turn while walking up. (Relentless, and if you have a stalker and shot at a unit/tank... these warriors shooting at same target are twin linked)

I think you need to re-read the Codex; Necron Lords do not make Warriors Relentless, a Necron Overlord with the Phaeron upgrade does.

And that is really costly and still extremely prone to getting swept. Phaeron+Warriors seems a poor use of an Overlord, especially since Overlord can't take Orb. Even a regular Lord+Orb is 75 points...I'd just as soon take more Warriors.

Overlords can take Rez Orbs. And a Court lord with an Orb is not 75 points.

People, please read the codex and entires before making a post. There have been numerous mistakes in this thread.

Oh, my mistake. I was mixing Orb up with Veil--forgetting what they took away from the old (Over)Lord. Are you sure about the cost of the Orb Lord though? I might be 10 off, but even then it doesn't seem like a good price.

whigwam wrote:Oh, my mistake. I was mixing Orb up with Veil--forgetting what they took away from the old (Over)Lord. Are you sure about the cost of the Orb Lord though? I might be 10 off, but even then it doesn't seem like a good price.

Come on. Almost every pic of his model has him holding the orb too.

I'm trying two Overlords in Cmd. Barges, so there's the other reason the Orb kind of slipped my mind. My take is it's one of the more pointless/costly upgrades they've got available.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I'm not exactly staring at pictures of Necron Overlords all that often...the ones I've modeled are just waving hello with an open hand.

I actually think the Tau would give Necrons a run for their money. Between Blacksun Filters, Str 6 AP4 pie plates, Rail Guns and enough Str 5 spam from Fire Warriors to the Suits would certainly melt away Necron Warriors and Immortals, even their Missile Pods are leathal. A very fast, Tau Mech list would give any Necron list a run for their money.

** i meant necron overlord, apologies for the confusion.

Necron Over lord can take Orb.

Plus i do not see them getting sweeped with 20 deep. Of coarse you are gonna have support, by running up with wraiths or ctan. 20 Gauss shots, relentless, and twin linked if you utilize a stalker before hand. Thats making someone pick up dice. And your shooting 20 shots that can effectively hurt anything on the board. Again if people are gonna charge this unit then they are ignoring other units that are far more threatening.

Not to mention if you use Nemesor, you can give the above unit. Counter charge, or hit run.... If you use his body guard in the above unit, you have a veil that will sweep you away from combat. If you put Nemesor himself in the unit then once they are assaulted, his body guard will automatically deep strike to him and pile in... Now theres 3 lords their, with counter charger, str5/7 power weapons, 2 with 3+invuls.

If this unit gets overrun, its gonna take something big.

IMO Putting a lord in a barge... he gets blown out, he gets shot to hell and he fails his get up roll..... Thanks for coming. I guess playing out will only tell. Still, Safety in numbers if you ask me, 20 potential twin linked shots with weapons that can hurt anything within 24 inches. Potentially, Counter charge if you get assaulted...


Units may cost a lot, or seem weird. But I see a lot of pieces and combination that will be used together to pull out good results and victories.

10 Assault Terminators with Lightning Claws(400pts)
Praetorians kill 3 Terminators shooting into combat.
After 7 drawn out assault phases, Preatorians win, with three models left.

No possible way that is the average result. I think you have number of attacks wrong (base 2+1 for terminators, 1 for praetorians) and you are making RP rolls before fealess wounds maybe?

Fetterkey wrote:The problem with those assault assumptions is that Lychguard, realistically, aren't getting the charge, since they lack a delivery mechanism-- unlike Assault Terminators, who can benefit from the Land Raider, a Librarian's Gate of Infinity, a Stormraven, etc.

I do not think they need to get the charge off.... I guess you could put them in a night scyth if you wanted to help them get the charge off...

But i think you put them in a position to get charged (use a cryptik with a veil, or Nemesors body guard veil), no one in charge range when you show up near an enemy unit, is gonna shoot at you with those reflection shields. You pretty much saying charge me, or get charged. If you opt to use Nemesors body guard, you can add a cryptek with Harbinger of the storm if you have a Necron overlord as your other HQ.

And if they get charged, if you use Nemesor (who i really like, and basically is a must to support my opinion) You get counter charge, and take away a special ability of the enemy charging if they have one. T5, 4+ invu, and now 3 attacks back. Str 5 power weapons... Seems good enough to me.


(ALSO: anyone got any information on death ray? Description to fire does not say anything about having to roll to hit, seems silly. But it says what it says)

Well, now you're saying you have expensive HQs to synergize with them. If we're taking that route, Terminators could be in a Vulkan army, have a Chaplain with them, or have a Librarian with Null Zone to support their charge. Further, the shields are a red herring. Most weapons can freely fire on you-- shields or no shields-- because the shields only work if you take your invulnerable save, not your armor save.

Fetterkey wrote:Well, now you're saying you have expensive HQs to synergize with them. If we're taking that route, Terminators could be in a Vulkan army, have a Chaplain with them, or have a Librarian with Null Zone to support their charge. Further, the shields are a red herring. Most weapons can freely fire on you-- shields or no shields-- because the shields only work if you take your invulnerable save, not your armor save.

Very Valid points, the shield save or armor save scenario especially makes you think. Good debate, I guess time will tell what will work or what wont. I still like the idea of putting them in a position to get charged they seem very resilent with t5, 4+ invul ,and 5+ RP. but a night scythe transport might be a good alternative. I do think you have to use a lot of pieces and combination to make a competitive list, a lot more thinking then most most army list.



EDIT: My other Army is Space wolfs, I must say if my wolf lord with termies were in a position to charge Lychguard or get charged following turn. I would charge. While i might shoot at them with a storm bolter or 2 to try to pepper them up. I would not start shooting ap3 or ap2 Long fangshots, in fear of that reflection onto my own unit, well maybe AP3, but certainly not LasCannons. (Plasma Cannons all day

Nevermind.... I'm so stupid ... I totally forgot the RAP....

Edit for huge mistake in my math...

As a former tyranid player, is anyone else absolutely horrified by Canoptek spiders?

for 175 points you can have a unit of 3, 3 wound, T6 3+ Mc's that can poop babies to absorb wounds, 9 attacks on the charge

thats 9 wounds of T6 3+ with wound allocation and free bullet shield shananagins
yeah they are slower, and compete for HS slots with models that are required, but jeeze!

The "pooped" babies have to go to a unit of scarabs within 6". So they are not part of the same unit as the Spider, and since spiders are not independent characters, unless im missing something then they cant join a unit of Scarabs either . That being said the rest of your comment is still worth a threat to consider.

Grundz wrote:As a former tyranid player, is anyone else absolutely horrified by Canoptek spiders?

for 175 points you can have a unit of 3, 3 wound, T6 3+ Mc's that can poop babies to absorb wounds, 9 attacks on the charge

thats 9 wounds of T6 3+ with wound allocation and free bullet shield shananagins
yeah they are slower, and compete for HS slots with models that are required, but jeeze!

Note that Spyders can only add Scarabs to existing squads, so the Scarabs aren't quite absorbing wounds. You also have to pay a bit for the equipment for wound allocation, so a kitted unit of three will be 175. Still, Spyders are definitely a bargain. Can't wait until they get better models..

*Ninja'd..!

TH/SS termies can't sweeping advance. A failed morale test would just end in lychguard falling back and getting to use their RP. The TH/SS termies could attempt to walk the lychguard off the table at that point, but they never get to make a sweeping advance.

I'd like to point out that the only thing in the codex that has EW is the c'tan which is pretty brutal.

Edit: Also, I just dont think things are fair for the necrons, if any marine got a SC or MC as expensive as the C'tan they wouldn't give it a 4+ save. Its going to get destroyed by splinter cannons.

whigwam wrote:

Grundz wrote:As a former tyranid player, is anyone else absolutely horrified by Canoptek spiders?

for 175 points you can have a unit of 3, 3 wound, T6 3+ Mc's that can poop babies to absorb wounds, 9 attacks on the charge

thats 9 wounds of T6 3+ with wound allocation and free bullet shield shananagins
yeah they are slower, and compete for HS slots with models that are required, but jeeze!

Note that Spyders can only add Scarabs to existing squads, so the Scarabs aren't quite absorbing wounds. You also have to pay a bit for the equipment for wound allocation, so a kitted unit of three will be 175. Still, Spyders are definitely a bargain. Can't wait until they get better models..

*Ninja'd..!

Scarabs only have a 6" move +D6" fleet now so the spyders can keep up with a 6" move and D6" run and poop babies until the scarabs decide to make a 12" charge move. 2 turns of pooping babies puts scarab bases equal to 60% of the spyders cost on the table.