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No. The Railgun is powerful enough, and even moreso on Broadsides than Hammerheads, because they are TL.

Guys, fix something besides this

Kings of the anti tank movement

jy2 wrote:How about this?

Railgun S10 AP1 Assault 1, Lance, Ignore Cover (and no LOS needed just like the SMS)

And they can be taken by crisis suits for 25pts!

You forgot to say that any suit that takes it gains tank hunter and rerolls to hit, and 3d6 pick the 2 highest armour pen..

How bout this:
Broadsides:
WS3 BS4 S5 T4 W2 I2 A1 LD9 SV2+ 110pts for 2 models
Equipment: Rules:
TL Ion Cannon Relentless
TL SMS Blood Brothers (count as bonded at no extra cost)
HW Multitracker Old Guard (Because of their supreme veteran status, provide +1 to seize initiative role, only +1 for having the unit, not a cumulative bonus, does not stack with additional units)
Assault Grenades
Anti Tank Grenades

Options:
Add up to 2 more suits............+50pts/model
Add up to 6 Gun Drones..........+8pts/model
Add up to 4 Shield Drones.......+12pts/model
Add up to 4 Marker Drones......+10pts/model
May Exchange TL Ion Cannon for:
Cluster Warhead Launcher........Free (S5 Ap5 Heavy 1 Large Blast Range: Base to Base, must be taken by entire squad, each model (minus drones) places a LBT base to base all the way around the base of the model, no Friendly Fire)
TL AFP..................................+15pts (S5 AP5 Rge 48" Heavy 1 Barrage, ignores cover
TL Railguns............................+25pts
May exchange TL SMS for:
TL Flamers............................Free
TL Plasma Rifles.....................+10pts
TL Missile Pod........................+10pts
Sergeant may exchange his Multitracker for:
Shield Generator.....................+15pts
Locator Beacon......................+10pts
If he does, Sergeant may take:
HW Markerlight.............................Free
Whole Squad may take:
Hardwired TL........................+5pts/model
Charge Boosters....................+8pts/model (models may elect to move 2d6 inches in movement instead of 6 inches, does not ignore terrain)
Hard wired Blacksun filters......+1pts/model

Stealth Suit Team
WS2 BS3 S3 T3 W1 I2 A1 LD9 SV 3+ 70pts for 3 models
Equipment: Rules:
Burst Cannon Relentless Stealth
Stealth Suit Blood Brothers
Drone Controller Jetpack
Assault Grenades
Anti Tank Grenades
Options:
Add up to 5 more models 20pts/model
Add up to 6 Gun Drones..........+8pts/model
Add up to 4 Shield Drones.......+12pts/model
Add up to 4 Marker Drones......+10pts/model
May exchange Burst Cannon for:
Plasma Rifle..................+15pts
Flamer........................Free
Fusion Blaster...............+5pts
Rail Rifle.......................+10pts
Sergeant may exchange Drone Controller for
Target Lock.................+5pts
Locator Beacon............+10pts
Scatterfield Array..........+25pts (squad mounted disruption field generator, adds +1 to cover save, minimum cover save 6+ in open ground, doesn't work in CC)
Squad may take:
HW Blacksun Filters........+1pts
F4 Bombs....................+5pts/model (2d6 plus 6 armor pen, 1 attack per model in CC)

How about crisis suits?
WS 2 BS 4 T4 S5 W2 I2 A1 LD 8 (9 with sgt) 3+ Sv 70pts for squad (2 models)
equipment: Rules:
burst cannon Relentless
flamer Jetpack
multitracker Blood Brothers

Options:
add up to 4 more crisis suits at 30pts/model
Add up to 6 Gun Drones..........+8pts/model
Add up to 4 Shield Drones.......+12pts/model
Add up to 4 Marker Drones......+10pts/model

May exchange burst cannon and/or flamer for:
TL burst cannon........+5pts
TL Flamers................Free
Plasma Rifle...............+10pts
TL Plasma Rifle...........+15Pts
Fusion Blaster............Free
TL Fusion Blaster.......+5pts
Missile Pod................+10pts
TL Missile Pod...........+15pts
Plasma Caster...........+30pts (Rg 40" S6 AP2 Heavy2. Plasma Caster replaces all weapon systems on a crisis suit. For each successive turn that it fires the plasma caster gains 1 shot up to a maximum of 5. Wielders of a plasma caster may not gain a BS increase from markerlights, but may still gain all other benefits (and their targets subject to any other reductions))
Note, if a TL system is taken no other weapon systems may be taken
Sergeant may exchange Multitracker for:
Shield Generator......+5pts
Locator Beacon.......+5pts
Scatterfiled Generator....+10pts/model
If he does, Sergeant may take:
HW Multitracker........Free
Squad may take hardwired
Blacksun filter......1pts/model
Target lock.......+8pts/model
Charge Booster.....+10pts/model
Iridium Armor......+15pts/model (2+ arm sv 6+invuln)

First off; That was probably the most helpful post on here (bravo) but the least funny (boo)

Broadsides-
I don't think the broadside suits should have grenades, or help seize the initiative. Particularly the second one. Also, they can take A LOT of drones now, meaning you need either a vindicare or an obscene amount of concentrated fire to hurt them at all, maybe limit the number of drones a little?

Crisis-
The Plasma Caster...Maybe they only get the additional shot if they shoot at the same unit and if they don't move? Because this way they could charge up while bounding forward and shooting some regular dudes/infiltrating scouts/anything, before slamming termies/honour guard/whatever, which makes little sense. Also, It could just blaze away at a LR charging up (if the enemy is meched up) before slaughtering whatever was inside/using their 2 additional shots to ruin razorbacks/rhinos/whatever. It just seems like it needs a bit more fine tuning.

Also, I can't see anywhere it telling you how much a sergeant is. Is he one of the two originals? I can't comment too much on points costs because I'm not that familiar with tau beyond playing them a few times, so yeah. Thats on others

motyak wrote:First off; That was probably the most helpful post on here (bravo) but the least funny (boo)

Broadsides-
I don't think the broadside suits should have grenades, or help seize the initiative. Particularly the second one. Also, they can take A LOT of drones now, meaning you need either a vindicare or an obscene amount of concentrated fire to hurt them at all, maybe limit the number of drones a little?

well at present they can consist of a ten man squad with 7 4+ invuln and 10 2+ saves because of how shield drones work. the reason I let them still take so many drones was because honestly it's just tacking on points to an already expensive unit, like fielding a squad of 10 storm bolter termies with no landraider.
I threw the old guard rule in there (which, to clarify, you get +1 to ur sieze initiative only, and its only if you have a squad, not if you take more than one squad) as a way to reprisent that they are the veterans amongst veterans, since I fathom that no army with any sort of sanity would give a railgun to a noob pilot. In truthI figured it was a pretty cheap upgrade since sieze initiative is so rarely used (correct me if i'm wrong, i've never played an official tournie)

motyak wrote:Crisis-
The Plasma Caster...Maybe they only get the additional shot if they shoot at the same unit and if they don't move? Because this way they could charge up while bounding forward and shooting some regular dudes/infiltrating scouts/anything, before slamming termies/honour guard/whatever, which makes little sense. Also, It could just blaze away at a LR charging up (if the enemy is meched up) before slaughtering whatever was inside/using their 2 additional shots to ruin razorbacks/rhinos/whatever. It just seems like it needs a bit more fine tuning.

Also, I can't see anywhere it telling you how much a sergeant is. Is he one of the two originals? I can't comment too much on points costs because I'm not that familiar with tau beyond playing them a few times, so yeah. Thats on others

just like in the new dexes, sergeants are part of the original squad (its why the squad costs more than the cost of two suits) Also that seems fair as a suggestion for the plasma caster...personally I liked the thought of spraying all over the place. if you'd like i can post of the rest of the codex I developed...

I just mean, in regards to that initiative seizing thing, it becomes twice as risky to deploy in an offensive manner when you have first turn, because they can easily seize initiative and pound you to hell.

Touche on the unit size/drone thing

And yeah, post it, I'd love to see it, if its good I might convince my mate to play a few games with them for funsies

So I managed to reload firefox and now it deleted all the hour of writing I'd done to post the HQ choices...
Ethereal-100pts
WS5 BS4 S3 T3 W3 I3 A3 LD10 SV4+,4++ Equipment: Honor Blade, Battle Armor,Shield Generator Rules: Inspiring, Price of Failure, Stubborn, Honor Guard
Honor Blade: doubles strength and ignores armor saves
Inspiring: Ethereals are to Tau as Gods are to Men, so revered they are. Thus, any Tau (not Kroot Vespid or Human) with LoS to Ethereals may re roll ANY morale or pinning test they are required to make. In addition, the squad the ethereal joins may choose whether to pass or fail ANY morale or pinning test it is required to make.

Price of Failure: Tau are monstrously homocidal without the guidance of their beloved ethereals. So devastating is their desire for war they almost wiped themselves out before the Ethereals came. Thus, in the event of the death of an ethereal model, All tau with LoS must take a moral check. Should they fail, they must begin falling back towards the table edge in their deployment zone. Whether they pass or fail, all tau who took the test gain the following modifier:
Rage USR
All rapid fire weapons become Assault 2
All Assault weapons gain +1 to RoF

Should an ethereal die it counts for double victory points. Should the rules of the scenario dictate that the loss of the unit would normally count for double victory points, the loss of an ethereal counts for triple instead.

Ethereals may take an Honor guard of up to 20 Firewarriors, with no options and BS4, for 10pts/model

Battlesuit Commander 100pts
WS3 BS5 S4 T3 W3 I3 A3 LD10 SV3+ Equipment: XV22 Battlesuit, Burst Cannon, Flamer, Multitracker, Target Aquisition Unit, Drone Controller Rules: Leader of Good, Merciless, Jetpack, Bodyguard

XV22 suit: confers stealth field generator, stealth USR, shield generator (4++ sv)
Target Aquisition Unit: allows commander to target 2 different units with his weapon systems
Leader of Good: 12 ld bubble, units within may re roll all morale and pinning tests, unit he joins counts as bonded with him
Merciless: in melee against non IC non MC non vehicle units, gains preferred enemy against that unit
Bodyguard: may take a squad of 6 stealth suits as a bodyguard, with all relevent options. If using an XV8 suit, use the bodyguard unit profile below

May upgrade to XV8........Free, loses stealth, shield generator, stealth field generator, TAU, gains +1 S and T
Add up to 1 C and C Drone......+20pts/model (counts as 1 combined HQ unit for Force org, IC no unit coherency with commander, has a 6" Leader of Good bubble around it)
Add up to 2 Gun Drones..........+8pts/model
Add up to 2 Shield Drones.......+12pts/model
Add up to 2 Marker Drones......+10pts/model
A commander with any drones (except the Command and Control Drone) cannot take a bodyguard or join a unit

May exchange Burst Cannon and/or Flamer for:
TL burst cannon........+5pts
TL Flamers................Free
Plasma Rifle...............+10pts
TL Plasma Rifle...........+15Pts
Fusion Blaster............Free
TL Fusion Blaster.......+5pts
Missile Pod................+10pts
TL Missile Pod...........+15pts
Plasma Caster...........+30pts +1 rat per turn for every turn fired at the same unit
Ion Stream..............+20pts (S7 Ap3 Lance, heavy1 rge 30" strikes all models in a line (friend or foe) ignores units in melee, takes up two weapon slots)
Cyclonic Ion Blaster....+20pts (S7 Ap5 Assault 3 Rge 36" rending)
TL CIB.....................+35pts
Note, if a TL system is taken no other weapon systems may be taken

May exchange multitracker for
Target lock.............+10pts
Shield Generator......+10pts (cannot be taken by XV22)
Locator Beacon.......+10pts
Comand Node.........+20pts (doubles range of command bubble, doubles range of drone command bubble as well)

May Hardwire: (does not replace a weapon system or the multitracker)
Ejector seat............10pts (on death model replaced with FW model up to 4d6 inches away from death, no VP unless firewarrior is killed, has W1, may not be taken with a bodyguard)
Stimulant injector.....+15pts (FNP)
Iridium Armor..........+25pts (2+, 6++ cannot be taken by XV22 as suit super structure is insufficient to hold the added mass)
Charge booster.......+10pts
Blacksun Filter..........+1pts
Escape booster........+15pts (gains hit and run)
Multitracker............Free (may not take two of the same upgrade. and thus may not take two multitrackers)
Bodyguard:
WS 2 BS 4 T4 S5 W2 I2 A1 LD 10 3+ Sv 70pts for squad (2 models)
equipment: Rules:
burst cannon Relentless
flamer Jetpack
multitracker Blood Brothers

May exchange Burst Cannon and/or Flamer for:
TL burst cannon........+5pts
TL Flamers................Free
Plasma Rifle...............+10pts
TL Plasma Rifle...........+15Pts
Fusion Blaster............Free
TL Fusion Blaster.......+5pts
Missile Pod................+10pts
TL Missile Pod...........+15pts
Plasma Caster...........+30pts
Ion Stream..............+20pts
Cyclonic Ion Blaster....+20pts
TL CIB.....................+35pts
Note, if a TL system is taken no other weapon systems may be taken

May exchange multitracker for
Target lock.............+10pts
Shield Generator......+10pts
UCPS.....................+5pts/model (Stands for Universale Commander Positioning System. squad becomes able to operate without being attached to the commander. either may rejoin at any time, squad must maintain coherency when away from the commander)

May Hardwire:
Stimulant injector.....+15pts
Iridium Armor..........+25pts
Charge booster.......+10pts
Escape booster........+15pts
Multitracker..............Free
Blacksun filter...........+1pts
Kroot Master Shaper 80pts (1 model)
WS6 BS3 S4 T3 W3 I3 A3 Ld9 Sv 4+ Equipment: Kroot Gunblade, Armor of the Ancients, Teeth of a Carnivore (necklace) Rules: Mercenary Leader, relentless, Stubborn, Infiltrators, Stealth
Armor of the Ancients: unlike most Kroot tech, this armor is master crafted. It confers a 5+ invulnerable save in melee combat, and a 4+ save to ranged attacks
Kroot Gunblade: this gun uses the profile (S4 ap5 Rg24 Assault 2) and counts as two close combat weapons
Teeth of a Carnivore: when consolidating after a successful sweeping advance, the Master shaper and all Kroot in his attached squad gain +1 wound for the next turn only
Mercenary Leader: The kroot fight only for rewards, but they like their cash. While he is on the table, all Kroot may re roll any morale and pinning tests. Should he fall though, all Kroot must make an immediate leadership check at -1 Ld. Also, if he is taken, Fire Warriors become an elites choice

May take a bodyguard of up to 10 models consisting of any number of the following for their listed values (as long as the total does not exceed 10 models)
Kroot Hounds 4pts/model WS4 BS0 S4 T4 W1 I5 LD 7 SV 5+ infiltrators, stealth
Kroot Carnivores 6pts/model WS4 BS3 S4 T3 W1 I4 LD 7 SV 5+ armed with a kroot gunblade, infiltrators, stealth
Krootox 15pts/model WS4 BS3 S6 T3(5) W2 I2 LD 7 SV 5+ armed with Kroot Fhat'leckta (S6 Ap5 Rg 36" Assault 1),infiltrators, units loses stealth and fleet
Kroot Hawk 5pts/model WS3 BS0 S2 T2 W2 I6 LD 6 SV- grants Fleet to unit, swarm, infiltrators, stealth

Kroot may give all models in his unit Field craft (allowing them to move and shoot unabated through forests) for +2pts per model
I don't have a lot of experience with multiple model type units, so the kroot bodyguard will probably need work. Here are the HQ slots though

dbsamurai you clearly put a lot of thought into it but I must say Im not a fan of most of your suggestions <3

But hey at least my fluff is better than wards
I know it's impossible to please everyone (and you're right I did put a lot of thought into this...basically since I first tried using stingwings about 5 years ago) so I'm just trying to come up with fixes for what I see as the weaknesses of our dex also a lot of people at my FLGS say they hate how firewarriors are 1+ and how they wanna field kroot armies, so I've been toying with a way to make that happen. As you could probably tell I don't really use kroot beyond meat shields or objective holders lol...I never saw the character in them, they're basically orks with bolters and no armor save...

I stopped reading when I saw the Crisis Suits were still T4.


If you make Crisis Suits WS2 BS4 T5 S3 and knock their points down to about 18-20 they should do remarkably better than our current versions. Their guns should definately have a points reduction and maybe introduce a large blast and couple small blast weapons to compensate for the Tau's abysmal lack of blast weapons, perhaps within the 18"-24" range to synergize with Burst Cannons. They also need another strength 8 weapon besides the Fusion Blaster, maybe spike the Ion Cannon up to S8 Heavy 5 and increase its about another 15 points.

Hammerheads and Broadsides could use more loadouts.

Keep Kroot the way they are as much as possible. Reduce the points for the Hound/Krootox and have the Shaper come with the Kroot Squad instead. Give them the 'Eaters of the dead' Option to boost their stats for the corresponding amount of points. Maybe slip some wargear for the Shaper as well.

Give FireWarrior squads Support Drones. Its the most perfect thing I can think of without breaking the Tau fluff. Allow a Shas'ui to buy 2 drones with corresponding weapons:

Twin-linked Plasma Rifle (10 Points per Drone)
Twin-linked Burst Cannons (5 Points per Drone)
Twin-linked Flamer (Free)
Twin-linked Fusion Blaster (10 Points per Drone)

Given the BS2 of Drones, the points values shouldn't be that high.

KplKeegan wrote:I stopped reading when I saw the Crisis Suits were still T4.


If you make Crisis Suits WS2 BS4 T5 S3 and knock their points down to about 18-20 they should do remarkably better than our current versions.

They're currently 30 points cause they come with guns. also they're in a battlesuit of course they're gonna be tougher and stronger than regular tau. If you look the models have robotic arms, the pilots are housed in the chest gundam style. so they'd have far greater strength (cause they have power lifter arms) but they're only so much stronger in terms of how hard it is to breach their armor. While yes you could totally drop their S skill because they really don't need it since they shouldn't be doing melee anyways, froma fluff standpoint its more logical (at most I'd drop it to 4) than leaving them with no strength modifier.

KplKeegan wrote:Their guns should definately have a points reduction and maybe introduce a large blast and couple small blast weapons to compensate for the Tau's abysmal lack of blast weapons, perhaps within the 18"-24" range to synergize with Burst Cannons. They also need another strength 8 weapon besides the Fusion Blaster, maybe spike the Ion Cannon up to S8 Heavy 5 and increase its about another 15 points.

I don't know enough about the forgeworld weapons to really mess with the strength 8 options, however that is why I'm adding things like the fusion stream, a handy energy beam that has the lance type. if you'd kept reading you'd see it I also am more focused on fixing what's there than adding new stuff, primarily cause it's easier to tweak things to be balanced and powerful than it is to come up with something new and not have it be OP

KplKeegan wrote:Hammerheads and Broadsides could use more loadouts.

I haven't covered hammerheads yet (only suits and HQs) but I do have various loadouts for them. Thats really where I just made stuff up, cause the only forgeworld options are bigger versions of the crisis weapons

KplKeegan wrote:Keep Kroot the way they are as much as possible. Reduce the points for the Hound/Krootox and have the Shaper come with the Kroot Squad instead.

Again, haven't listed my troops yet but i did add shaper standard and gave them armor saves and other things. instead nw they can add fieldcraft (since that's a very situational ability at best) and other things

KplKeegan wrote: Give them the 'Eaters of the dead' Option to boost their stats for the corresponding amount of points. Maybe slip some wargear for the Shaper as well.

doing that, just haven't llisted the troops yet, was gonna do fast attack next because that has more need (since everything in that seciton is overpriced or underpowered or both)

KplKeegan wrote:Give FireWarrior squads Support Drones. Its the most perfect thing I can think of without breaking the Tau fluff. Allow a Shas'ui to buy 2 drones with corresponding weapons:

Twin-linked Plasma Rifle (10 Points per Drone)
Twin-linked Burst Cannons (5 Points per Drone)
Twin-linked Flamer (Free)
Twin-linked Fusion Blaster (10 Points per Drone)

Given the BS2 of Drones, the points values shouldn't be that high.

Drones are BS3 in keeping with the habit of robots (POTMS anyone?) having the same standard bs as their squads. Also tau are a synergy army, not a deathstar army. Giving firewarriors the power to take plasma rifles is anti fluff, but more importantly I'd rather give it to a firewarrior than a drone. Also giving a drone TL anything except the crap guns they have now is a very bad idea, especially flamers since that doesn't require a BS to be incredably deadly, and giving them something with one shot like a TL fusion blaster means ur wasting the points if their bs is less than 3. just look at how well they shoot now with their TL pulse carbines.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/416213.page#3667718

Leon wrote:Strength 10 AP 1 is the best tank-hunting weapon ever IMO. It is already really good as it is considering how cheap the broadsides are.

You mean 'twin-linked S10 AP1 which can be improved to BS5 and the cover save removed entirely thanks to Markerlights' I think! Boo-ya. Love my Broadsides.

Except that requires 5 markerlight hits...which means mathhammer says you're gonna need two full squads of pathfinders to ensure that works...
I love my broadsides too (I built a list with nine of them and ten crisis suits) but markerlights need to be an option for more units to make them viable...

IcyCool wrote:

Totalwar1402 wrote:

Talamare wrote:Giving Tau Broadsides Tank Hunter

...Do you think it might be a touch overkill? Can you even go over str 10?

No, you can't go over Str 10..

Str D

PROVEN

im2randomghgh wrote:

IcyCool wrote:

Totalwar1402 wrote:

Talamare wrote:Giving Tau Broadsides Tank Hunter

...Do you think it might be a touch overkill? Can you even go over str 10?

No, you can't go over Str 10..

Str D

PROVEN

D isn't "over" Str 10, it's just a special rule that bypasses armour penetration and wounding entirely.

DISPROVEN.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

IcyCool wrote:

Totalwar1402 wrote:

Talamare wrote:Giving Tau Broadsides Tank Hunter

...Do you think it might be a touch overkill? Can you even go over str 10?

No, you can't go over Str 10..

Str D

PROVEN

D isn't "over" Str 10, it's just a special rule that bypasses armour penetration and wounding entirely.

DISPROVEN.

It is a special rule that is used in place of strength and is more powerful that Str 10.

REPROVEN

WE NEED MORE GUNS! BEING ABLE TO TAKE DOWN A LR WITH EASE ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH! I WANT TO BE POPPING TITANS WITH A SINGLE BATTLESUIT!

Easily do that with a Fusion gun Stealth Tam or a Braodside. Depends on Voids or not fort Broadsides.

Deadshot wrote:Easily do that with a Fusion gun Stealth Tam or a Braodside. Depends on Voids or not fort Broadsides.

If it's a big enough game for titans, it's a big enough game for mantas. Str D TL for the win!

im2randomghgh wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:D isn't "over" Str 10, it's just a special rule that bypasses armour penetration and wounding entirely.

DISPROVEN.

It is a special rule that is used in place of strength and is more powerful that Str 10.

REPROVEN

Which is still not "over" any more than "str X" is "over" anything.

I'm getting flashbacks to your horrible "40k über alles" arguments against SupCom.

Talamare wrote:Giving Tau Broadsides Tank Hunter

They probably haven't thought of it, to be honest. If they did, it was brief, and they felt very silly afterwards.

ph34r wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:D isn't "over" Str 10, it's just a special rule that bypasses armour penetration and wounding entirely.

DISPROVEN.

It is a special rule that is used in place of strength and is more powerful that Str 10.

REPROVEN

Which is still not "over" any more than "str X" is "over" anything.

I'm getting flashbacks to your horrible "40k über alles" arguments against SupCom.

D is a str value, and is listed under the str section of the weapon profile as well as the special rules area.

That means D is a value for str. D is more powerful than 10. There really is no argument to be made.

And don't be bitter about the SupCom debate, just because they have literally no defenses against psykers.

im2randomghgh wrote:D is a str value, and is listed under the str section of the weapon profile as well as the special rules area/

Just like strength X

im2randomghgh wrote:That means D is a value for str. D is more powerful than 10.

Sure, but that doesn't mean "over". It just has some other special rules.

The point is, it doesn't break the scale because it's not on the scale.

Deadshot wrote:It has a rerollable 2++ and a rerollable 2+ FNP.

Also, it may always take FNP, no matter the restrictions.

ph34r wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:D is a str value, and is listed under the str section of the weapon profile as well as the special rules area/

Just like strength X

im2randomghgh wrote:That means D is a value for str. D is more powerful than 10.

Sure, but that doesn't mean "over". It just has some other special rules.

The point is, it doesn't break the scale because it's not on the scale.

Not just like Str X. With strength X there will be other rules for it because otherwise it would literally do nothing, it is not a rule. Str D is a rule however, and without any extra explanations can be used.

It really does mean over. It is for weapon too powerful to function with a numerical str value. It is basically what would happen if they wrote str 11+.

How is it that people want to make stuff like rails guns more powerful? While were at it lets give the fire warriors range 48 large blast str 10 ap 1 that doesnt scatter, has stealth, ignore terrain etc etc.. sounds like how the necorn players wanted to keep the monolith from the old codex but make all their troops etc more powerful. Followed closely by the people whining a codex is op. good lord

Draigo wrote:How is it that people want to make stuff like rails guns more powerful? While were at it lets give the fire warriors range 48 large blast str 10 ap 1 that doesnt scatter, has stealth, ignore terrain etc etc.. sounds like how the necorn players wanted to keep the monolith from the old codex but make all their troops etc more powerful. Followed closely by the people whining a codex is op. good lord

We don't need it more powerful. Just game mechanics, it wouldn't work

Fluff wise, though...

Either way I'm happy with Str 10 AP 1, I was just arguing about whether or not D is more powerful than 10 because IT OBVIOUSLY IS!