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Fluff wise, Draigo by far. His plot armour renders him practically indestructible against any opponent. Heck, if his fluff was directly translated into his profile, Draigo would be an Apoc character (which is also one of the problems with using 5th ed fluff in a direct comparative discussion).

From a realistic fluff perspective, it is probably a tie between Mephiston and Abaddon. Both have well established and realistic reasons for their superiority and have had this emphasised in fluff outside of their faction codex. I didn’t include Draigo in the realistic comparison because we’ve yet to hear a non codex, non Matt Ward version of Draigo’s fluff and are therefore do not have an balanced perspective on his fluff.

Namica wrote:Well, isn't the main reason Draigo is kicking so much ass, that they are daemons and he was bred specificly to kill demons? He wouldn't exactly do as well against Thrakka.

And I said no demons, because fluff has some demons WAY ahead of what Draigo has defeated.

That doesn't explain how he physically held a Daemon Primarch down and wrote a name on his heart.

Or how he burns down the Garden of Nurgle and smashes the Inevitable City to ruin.

Frankly characters like Ghazghkuull couldn't even get close to Draigo, not when you consider his feats of raw psychic might.

Also, what Daemons are that far ahead of what Draigo has defeated?

I concur. It IS Draigo, no other comes close to him.

Umm, probably a Primarch. If you think Vulkan is alive then you have your answer

I'm flicking through my copy of Codex: Space Marine and I'm not seeing the Primarch Vulkan anywhere. Sure you read the OP?

Void__Dragon wrote:

Namica wrote:Well, isn't the main reason Draigo is kicking so much ass, that they are daemons and he was bred specificly to kill demons? He wouldn't exactly do as well against Thrakka.

And I said no demons, because fluff has some demons WAY ahead of what Draigo has defeated.

That doesn't explain how he physically held a Daemon Primarch down and wrote a name on his heart.

Or how he burns down the Garden of Nurgle and smashes the Inevitable City to ruin.

Frankly characters like Ghazghkuull couldn't even get close to Draigo, not when you consider his feats of raw psychic might.

Also, what Daemons are that far ahead of what Draigo has defeated?

Sadly, the above^^.

An'ggrath the Unbound, most likely Khorne's greatest champion, described as the Lord of Bloodthirsters, was defeated by the Primarch Lorgar on a Daemon-world within the Eye of Terror, where An'ggrath's power would be at its height. Lorgar is a Daemon Primarch, whose power is more or less similar to that of his other fallen brethren. Mortarion is certainly no less capable a fighter than Lorgar at any rate. Draigo fought a path through Mortarion's armies by himself, whereby he proceeded to beat the living gak out of the unfortunate Primarch, and then held him down and carved a name into Mortarion's heart. It's ridiculous. There are few daemons in existence whose might could compare to An'ggrath or a Daemon Primarch, and yet none of them can even raise a finger at Draigo lest he burn down their realms with psychic fire and carve troll-faces into their asses.

Draigo is the ultimate mary sue. So unless you ban him from this little competition (which I think you absolutely should), it'll be really hard to argue that he doesn't win.

EDIT: I'm a Grey Knight player and even I don't like him. As far as I'm concerned, the stories of his exploits are just 2nd-hand rumors spread around the Inquisition.

Yarp, no more draigo.

And Khorn's greatest champion is Doombreed, his first and mightiest champion (who is also implied to be Gengis Khan)

Namica wrote:Yarp, no more draigo.

And Khorn's greatest champion is Doombreed, his first and mightiest champion (who is also implied to be Gengis Khan)

or any past, present or future warlord...

Based on codexes? Really you'd need EW to even be considered, as well as at LEAST a 4++ and multiple attacks at high strength with high init. With that being said, there are a few exceptions, a 2++, T6, etc. minimize not having EW and put a few characters in the running.

Draigo, Abaddon, Vect, Grimnar, Mephiston, Sanguinor.
Vect and Meph can get away without EW because Vect has a 2++ and Meph is T6 combined with the ability to shut people down. Of this group, I'd say Abaddon/Draigo are the strongest. Vect and Meph both lack EW, with Meph relying on his psychic powers way too much to boot. Sanguinor/Grimnar can both put out a hurting but either lack the survivability or raw damage output of Draigo/Abaddon.

Ghazzie, Drazahar, Lysander, Calgar are all very badass, but lack that little extra oomph to stand up to the others. Striking at I1 means you can easily be dead before you get to swing, having no invuln REALLY means you're likely to die.

Swarmlord, Lelith, Vulkan, Eldrad, Belial, Eldrad all lack EW and 1 shot can easily be the end for them.

So final answer; Draigo and Abaddon.

Traceoftoxin wrote:Based on codexes? Really you'd need EW to even be considered, as well as at LEAST a 4++ and multiple attacks at high strength with high init. With that being said, there are a few exceptions, a 2++, T6, etc. minimize not having EW and put a few characters in the running.

Draigo, Abaddon, Vect, Grimnar, Mephiston, Sanguinor.
Vect and Meph can get away without EW because Vect has a 2++ and Meph is T6 combined with the ability to shut people down. Of this group, I'd say Abaddon/Draigo are the strongest. Vect and Meph both lack EW, with Meph relying on his psychic powers way too much to boot. Sanguinor/Grimnar can both put out a hurting but either lack the survivability or raw damage output of Draigo/Abaddon.

Ghazzie, Drazahar, Lysander, Calgar are all very badass, but lack that little extra oomph to stand up to the others. Striking at I1 means you can easily be dead before you get to swing, having no invuln REALLY means you're likely to die.

Swarmlord, Lelith, Vulkan, Eldrad, Belial, Eldrad all lack EW and 1 shot can easily be the end for them.

So final answer; Draigo and Abaddon.

Fluff, not game stats.

This is about fluff, although I see now reason for the rules not to be taken into account in part.

Excluding Draigo, it has to be a closer call between Abaddon, the named Chapter Masters, and Ghaz in the fluff.

Xca|iber wrote:
Draigo is the ultimate mary sue. So unless you ban him from this little competition (which I think you absolutely should), it'll be really hard to argue that he doesn't win.

I agree with this statement. It’ll be more interesting to see outside of Draigo who is the strongest. Draigo’s fluff is too unbalanced anyway which is why I did a separate “realistic” comparison in my earlier post.

its all Ghazghul....carving graffiti in a destroyed Titans hull about how your gonna whup up on the galaxy, leading the largest Waaagh in imperial memory and coming back for more..sparing a hated dangerous enemy , just so you can have another good battle with him.

Ghaz is bad, classy and green, and has my vote.

Besides he did come from humble beginings to..a little spore

iproxtaco wrote:This is about fluff, although I see now reason for the rules not to be taken into account in part.

Excluding Draigo, it has to be a closer call between Abaddon, the named Chapter Masters, and Ghaz in the fluff.

Didn't Eldrad wreck Abaddon in a fight or something?

Tha main character piece from the latest codex.

Namica wrote:Yarp, no more draigo.

And Khorn's greatest champion is Doombreed, his first and mightiest champion (who is also implied to be Gengis Khan)

Doombreed is never stated to be Khorne's strongest champion.

In fact, more recent fluff indicates it's Angron.

Oh, and Doombreed isn't even necessarily Khorne's first champion.

Excluding Draigo though...

I'd say that it's between guys like Abaddon, or some very powerful Sorcerer Lords/Chief Librarians, like Ahriman, or Tigurius. They tend to be stronger than chapter masters all things considered. Oh, Living Saints and guys like the Sanguinor are also powerful. Eldrad would be a contender, if he was alive.

I summon DOOMBREAD!

Im going to vote for Eldrad. Mostly because he is a Farseer, and arguably the most powerful ever known. He taught the Emperor himself, and warned him of the coming traitor of one of his sons. His body is mostly crystal now, and stronger then most imperial armours (hence his better invul in game) His mind and weapons are so powerful he is easily one of the strongest out there.

on top of that he has foiled more chaos attempts at siezing the galaxy then most care to remember. And stealing Abbadons flagship while he was RIDING it is just classic


Yeah, i think the only competetion for eldrad would be mephiston...but honostly eldrad would win that fight as he would just shut mephistion down (both fluff and in game)


So yeah, im voting eldrad

Vect, because he will teabag you with a black hole

Might be a bit out of the ordinary, but im going to go with Asdrubal Vect. Though hes not the greatest fighter (but by all means is still amazing), hes a brilliant tactician and is all around amazing at the art of war.

Commissar Typhus wrote:Marbo... admit it, no other charcter has the balls of steel or the awesomeness he has.

I agree!

Nightrave wrote:He taught the Emperor himself, and warned him of the coming traitor of one of his sons.

The second kind of happened.

The first didn't happen.

Namica wrote:

Hornifex wrote:Be honest, would lelith: 3 wounds, ws 9, strength 3, toughness 3, sv 6+ - really kill Swarmlord: 5 wounds, ws 9, strength 6, toughness 6, sv 3+.

We're talkin' fluff here.

Though, what were her rules again, for her staggering number of hits? Seriouslly, I don't have my codex with me.

"Lelith gets a number of bonus Attacks equal to the difference between her Weapon Skill and the highest Weapon Skill among enemy models she is in base contact with."
And you're also forgetting that she has a 4++ all the time which is increased to a 3++ in combat.

Void-Dragon - if he ever unites.

A small piece of him fought a outright duel with the emperor and stood a chance. This piece isn't a "piece" or "part" or even "portion" but is in fact a SHARD. As in, like 1/1,000,000 of him.

I'd hate to see ANY of the C'tan fully functional.

I thought it was the whole thing that the Emp fought?

TheAngrySquig wrote:I thought it was the whole thing that the Emp fought?

According to the new Necron fluff, the Necrons rebelled against their Gods and, although unable to kill them, shattered them into tiny shards. To this day, they fear their reconstitution.

This was long, long before Humanity existed.

I'd say either lelith or thraka.

Nom

It can't be Imotekh. The Silent King is still functioning and active in the current timeline. He's, by definition, more powerful than Imotekh.

He's who I'd vote for also.

Unit1126PLL wrote:

TheAngrySquig wrote:I thought it was the whole thing that the Emp fought?

According to the new Necron fluff, the Necrons rebelled against their Gods and, although unable to kill them, shattered them into tiny shards. To this day, they fear their reconstitution.

This was long, long before Humanity existed.

Did Mat Ward just nerf the Emperor?

TheAngrySquig wrote:

Unit1126PLL wrote:

TheAngrySquig wrote:I thought it was the whole thing that the Emp fought?

According to the new Necron fluff, the Necrons rebelled against their Gods and, although unable to kill them, shattered them into tiny shards. To this day, they fear their reconstitution.

This was long, long before Humanity existed.

Did Mat Ward just nerf the Emperor?

Yes, unless the void dragon was one of the pones that got away.


Nom