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Radiation wrote:mattrym: Whatever turns you purple. I won't be thinking of you sweetness.

I'm happy to leave it there then. As im sure you have gathered from my posts, im not a banker or a stockbroker and as such ive no interest in prolonging the argument with you.

Many things turn me purple.. It might be my blood pressure though.

You're thinking of him as you write that, though.

Monster Rain wrote:You're thinking of him as you write that, though.

Shriek!!

Nyuk! Nyuk! Nyuk!

So you're for ending the special tax breaks that the top 1% enjoy then?

In general, yes.

That's right, stop pointing out the flaws. Just shut up and accept it as the rich take over your society and the generations after you are consigned to wage slavery. It worked for the russians amazingly.

Yeah, the protesting entitlement crowd turned out oh so well in London. Great mentality the liberal leftie welfare society breeds.

As for pointing out flaws, there is nothing wrong with that but when the hippie crowd often turn to violence, looting and are generally screwed by the very same occupy wallstreet organisation they previously donated money to then I do have a problem since they are no longer simply innocent people trying to point out flaws in a corrupt society.
Even more so when the whole movement is greatly supported and funded by groups like American Communists, CAIR, ACORN and what have you.

Say what you want about the Tea Party crowd but I am still to see one of their rallies turn to violent rampage, something that seems to be so ripe with the "innocent" wallstreet protesters who only want to point out the flaaaaaws of a faulty system to the benefit of us all *cough*

Yes mate, but here's the thing, that's a big fething "When" same as it was a big "Russians"

You invent a premise to have an argument with me!

Granted I see things somewhat black and white, that's the soldier in me, but I dont stick my foot in my mouth hugely and say anything along the lines that you retort to me with.

Relax and play along instead. You can always ask him about the London riots as a counter

Because...the london...riots had nothing to do with OWS, yeah?

I reckon the whole left wing/right wing thing was the best thing the powerful ever came up with to keep us all squabbling.
It's really a case of rich fethers screwing poor fethers, as it has been throughout history.

Oh please, Londoners don't need a reason to riot.

daedalus wrote:

biccat wrote:You're assuming that what the protestors are agitating for will help the rest of us in the 99%. It won't.

I (still) have yet to see evidence of that. The really curious thing to me is that very few of the 'anti-protestors' are making that claim. They're not trying to say "you're wrong and here's why". Their message is "we like serfdom, and you're lazy for not liking it".

We've been over this many, many times before. Check out the OWS thread. Or any thread about taxes, or about government control.

You can generalize the "anti-protestors" all you want, but your generalities are wrong. My argument (if you consider me an anti-protestor) is not "we like serfdom, and you're lazy for not liking it," it's "I like freedom, and you're dangerous for not liking it."

See the quote in my sig.

mattyrm wrote:Stop moaning about rich people and do some work hippies!

Pick up the can, citizen.

biccat wrote:
You can generalize the "anti-protestors" all you want, but your generalities are wrong.

But, of course, biccat is free to generalize with respect to the OWS movement, and really anyone he doesn't like.

Because conservatives are persecuted, or something.

biccat wrote:
My argument (if you consider me an anti-protestor) is not "we like serfdom, and you're lazy for not liking it," it's "I like freedom, and you're dangerous for not liking it."

So your argument, like the one you're objecting to, is predicated on a strawman.

I don't know if election season has gotten to you, or what. But your post quality has degraded massively over the last month or so, its really very sad because you're capable of so much more.

biccat wrote:My argument (if you consider me an anti-protestor) is not "we like serfdom, and you're lazy for not liking it," it's "I like freedom, and you're dangerous for not liking it."

Funny, you don't seem to like it very much. Your double standard amuses me, but really Biccat, you're better than this.

Because...the london...riots had nothing to do with OWS, yeah?

Same s*it, same mentality, same people benefiting from it.
Go check up on all the little anti corporate leftie protesters popping up all over in the states and do a count on how many turn violent or loot.
Bunch of entitled lazy IQ liberated schmucks wanting someone else to pay for their own mistakes in life.

Granted, there is a minority that are genuine and those I highly respect, not all people can help their situation but if you take a loan and go do a major in gakking history or human arts and then complain you compete with a hundred thousand others for a burger flipping job and scream for getting bailed out of your debts then bummer, you should have picked math or realized you are not intelligent enough and done something that doesnt require gigantic study loans cuz I aint gonna pay for them for you.
That or pretend you are an illegal immigrant from mexico and maybe Rick Perry can give you free study subsidizing, you know having working people pay for it all socialist style.

Pyriel- wrote:

Because...the london...riots had nothing to do with OWS, yeah?

Same s*it, same mentality, same people benefiting from it.
Go check up on all the little anti corporate leftie protesters popping up all over in the states and do a count on how many turn violent or loot.
Bunch of entitled lazy IQ liberated schmucks wanting someone else to pay for their own mistakes in life.

Granted, there is a minority that are genuine and those I highly respect, not all people can help their situation but if you take a loan and go do a major in gakking history or human arts and then complain you compete with a hundred thousand others for a burger flipping job and scream for getting bailed out of your debts then bummer, you should have picked math or realized you are not intelligent enough and done something that doesnt require gigantic study loans cuz I aint gonna pay for them for you.
That or pretend you are an illegal immigrant from mexico and maybe Rick Perry can give you free study subsidizing, you know having working people pay for it all socialist style.

I love it when these guys start foaming at the mouth.

Actually if you are a citizen, you ARE going to be paying for them. Foam at the mouth all you want. The only thing in life that's certain are death and taxes.

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/11/09/occupy-oakland-protesters-deposit-funds-at-wells-fargo-after-bank-attacks/

this proves they're just a bunch of hypocritical dumbasses that need to stop bitching and start working...I guess they don't realize that most of the people they're protesting against got where they are by hard work, not being lazy and feeling entitled to things they don't deserve

starhawks wrote:http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/11/09/occupy-oakland-protesters-deposit-funds-at-wells-fargo-after-bank-attacks/

this proves they're just a bunch of hypocritical dumbasses that need to stop bitching and start working...I guess they don't realize that most of the people they're protesting against got where they are by hard work, not being lazy and feeling entitled to things they don't deserve

This "proves" absolutely nothing, one can acknowledge the "need" for a Police force without advocating police brutality and 3.00Am door kicking ...
But it seems to me that it's just far easier for people to dismiss these protesters as "lazy hippies who want everything handed to them" then it is to take a critical look at how corporations and the world banks do business.

I look critically at both groups.

It's why I don't fully condemn one while blindly supporting the other. My problem with OWS is that their insane behavior has made the Tea Party look like reasonable people, and as such, they won't accomplish much.

dogma wrote:So your argument, like the one you're objecting to, is predicated on a strawman.

You keep using that word, I'm not sure that it means what you think it means.

This isn't really anything new for you, I'm just not sure why you persist in it.

Da Boss wrote:
I reckon the whole left wing/right wing thing was the best thing the powerful ever came up with to keep us all squabbling.

FITZZ wrote: But it seems to me that it's just far easier for people to dismiss these protesters as "lazy hippies who want everything handed to them" then it is to take a critical look at how corporations and the world banks do business.

It's also easier for people to flame and troll than to post something intelligent and thoughtful....

In the end, if you really think about it... when you deposit money in a bank, you have even MORE right to want the banks to shape up and fly right. After all, you're invested in the bank at that point-- who can blame someone for wanting banks to reform when you have your own money invested in said banks? But alas, we can't expect the people who are so quick to bash the Occupy Whatever movement to actually think in terms of logic and reason like this...

FITZZ wrote:

starhawks wrote:http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/11/09/occupy-oakland-protesters-deposit-funds-at-wells-fargo-after-bank-attacks/

this proves they're just a bunch of hypocritical dumbasses that need to stop bitching and start working...I guess they don't realize that most of the people they're protesting against got where they are by hard work, not being lazy and feeling entitled to things they don't deserve

This "proves" absolutely nothing, one can acknowledge the "need" for a Police force without advocating police brutality and 3.00Am door kicking ...
But it seems to me that it's just far easier for people to dismiss these protesters as "lazy hippies who want everything handed to them" then it is to take a critical look at how corporations and the world banks do business.

I'm using the protestors as an example for people as a whole who feel so entitled for absolutely no reason...no one should have to pay higher taxes because they worked harder and earn more money, and no one deserves handouts from the government for no reason...I just found it hilarious how ironic and pathetic it was that the protestors used the same bank that they vandalized and were protesting against...classic example of foot in mouth

starhawks wrote:
I'm using the protestors as an example for people as a whole who feel so entitled for absolutely no reason...no one should have to pay higher taxes because they worked harder and earn more money, and no one deserves handouts from the government for no reason...

To this day I'm amazed that arguments from entitlement have become such pervasive strawmen.

starhawks wrote:
I just found it hilarious how ironic and pathetic it was that the protestors used the same bank that they vandalized and were protesting against...classic example of foot in mouth

Or an example of banks having an excessive market presence, it can go either way.

Of course, recognizing that would require uncertainty, and no one likes being uncertain; its far too difficult.

dogma wrote:To this day I'm amazed that arguments from entitlement have become such pervasive strawmen.

I think, if you're being fair, that there is a bit of a sense of entitlement in some of the rhetoric from many of these OWS protesters.

dogma wrote:Of course, recognizing that would require uncertainty, and no one likes being uncertain; its far too difficult.

Cognitive dissonance hurts.

It might have been one part of the group hit the bank and another part went to the bank the next day to deposit. Wouldn't be the first group where the left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing, so to speak.

biccat wrote:
You keep using that word, I'm not sure that it means what you think it means.

This isn't really anything new for you, I'm just not sure why you persist in it.

I'm quite confident in my understanding of the strawman fallacy. It is, simplified, any argument against a misrepresented position. This misrepresentation can be accomplished in a number of ways, but the one you use most often is extrapolation by generalization; ie. "We want the legal system to reflect our Christian values!!" becomes "We want a theocracy!"

You do this constantly, and not even with any attempt to veil with wit.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Monster Rain wrote:
I think, if you're being fair, that there is a bit of a sense of entitlement in some of the rhetoric from many of these OWS protesters.

True, but then entitlement basically just follows from protest. Many members of the Tea Party seem to believe they are entitled to freedom*, for example.






*I now must start trolling Tea Party message boards with this sentiment, it will be glorious.

OWS hypocrisy: The view of a middle class college student who works and contributes to society

If the protesters at OWS actually cared about the financial gap, they would be occupying the NFL, occupying Bill Gates, occupying university heads, occupying the federal budget, occupying the military, occupying Greece, and occupying the health care industry.

Yes, bankers maintain their wealth in recessions because the government gives them handouts. But so does GM.

The top 1% may earn billions of dollars, but they pay a much larger percentage of their income in taxes and make up the majority of taxes paid by the entire U.S. population. Do NOT try and claim they don't contribute their share to society. If OWS protesters cared about tax equality, they would be occupying the inner city welfare system and its recipients, those who take but fail to give.

The top 1% create many jobs for the portion of the 99% who actually want to try and get a job and contribute to society.

I am glad the top 1% earns as much as they do, because our incredibly unfair tax system in the United States takes nearly half of their income and gives it back to "needy" Americans who just can't live without life's necessities: Cable T.V., 2000 calories a day, Internet, cell phones, drugs/alcohol, and a house.

dogma wrote:*I now must start trolling Tea Party message boards with this sentiment, it will be glorious.

I shall require links.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

gman1401 wrote:I am glad the top 1% earns as much as they do, because our incredibly unfair tax system in the United States takes nearly half of their income and gives it back to "needy" Americans who just can't live without life's necessities: Cable T.V., 2000 calories a day, Internet, cell phones, drugs/alcohol, and a house.

It is hard to hear from people that they are "barely making ends meet" when they are tweeting about it from a $400 smart phone, I will concede that point.

gman1401 wrote: Do NOT try and claim they don't contribute their share to society.

Or gman1401 will be very upset.

gman1401 wrote:
If OWS protesters cared about tax equality, they would be occupying the inner city welfare system and its recipients, those who take but fail to give.

OWS, to my knowledge, has not advocated "tax equality", whatever that is.

gman1401 wrote:
The top 1% create many jobs for the portion of the 99% who actually want to try and get a job and contribute to society.

LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!

dogma wrote:

gman1401 wrote: Do NOT try and claim they don't contribute their share to society.

Or gman1401 will be very upset.

gman1401 wrote:
The top 1% create many jobs for the portion of the 99% who actually want to try and get a job and contribute to society.

LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!

solid counter arguments

starhawks wrote:
solid counter arguments

We're arguing now? I thought we were trading platitudes in order to make ourselves feel better.

dogma wrote:

starhawks wrote:
solid counter arguments

We're arguing now? I thought we were trading platitudes in order to make ourselves feel better.

using pretentious quips because you can't think of a good response? understandable