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Explain to me how Dark Eldar will destroy the Eldar?

If anything Dark Eldar and Eldar arnt really enemies, they basically leave each other alone for the most part. Eldar will only interfere with Dark Eldar if they see some fate happening that will bring the craftworlds in danger.

As far as Dark Eldar being able to occupy Craftworlds/Exodite worlds, and fighting Eldar fleets and armies head on, I dont think that will happen.

I also think that Eldar outnumber Dark Eldar by a large amount.

It will fall because all things fall.

To most intents the Imperium fell 10,000 years ago when the Emporer was confined in the Golden Throne. All the time since has been a retreat from the Emporer's ideals and a gradual decline of power.

I think Killkrazy has a point here.
Universe will collapse one day or another, and with it the Imperium.

But until that happens - Imperium will prevail.

I would say the imperium and Eldar will teamup for a final defence and the others races will launch a full on assault on terra.

Void__Dragon wrote:Another way is an Ork Kommando sneaking into the Celestial Orrery and poking out all the pretty lights.

My preferred ending.

I approve of this ending. Void_Dragon for BL writer, nao.

black templar wrote:I would say the imperium and Eldar will teamup for a final defence and the others races will launch a full on assault on terra.

I doubt that very much, most of the xenos goals are incompatible with each other.

Tau really don't want to be ruled by necrons, nor chaos, and they certainly don't want to be eaten by the 'nids.

The Necrons awoke to fight the 'nids, and they want to take over and/or destroy all other living things in the galaxy, and their pipe dream of seperating the materium from the warp, is in direct conflict with chaos.

The 'nids just eat what is in their path. They can be diverted, but that is difficult at best, and they can't be controlled).

Chaos obviously wants nothing to do with the Necron, they can't really subvert the tau all that well, they don't want the 'nids eating everyone (no more power for their gods).

Orks just want to fight. In many ways they are like the 'nids, a near mindless force of destruction just with less removing all biomass from the planets. Also they were created to fight the necrons.

Now Imperium/Eldar cooperation is probably the least rare of all the faction coalitions, not common but conceivable.

Armless Failure wrote:
The Necrons awoke to fight the 'nids, and they want to take over and/or destroy all other living things in the galaxy, and their pipe dream of seperating the materium from the warp, is in direct conflict with chaos.

Just to raise issue with this, the Necrons were waking up well in advance of the Nids showing up. The Silent King just returned to try and fight them off so his people can have other fleshy things left to transfer back into.

Regarding the eventual doom of the Imperium, it's pretty much a definite as things stand. While there are rumours of the Emperor's rebirth, it's obvious he will loathe the Imperium as its become. Even if he is reborn, the Imperium will fracture apart in civil war. Which leaves it more vulnerable to the huge list of things which want it dead. Between the Tyranid Hive Fleets (especially with the possibility that Leviathan is just a small fraction of what's yet to show up), the indomitable power of Chaos, the awakening Necron Empire and the general rot present in the Imperium I can't see it surviving much further than it already has.

Naturally though, GW won't let that happen. I'd like to see a future where the Imperium is split between people of the Old Order and people of the New Order should the Emperor wake up, it'd make things interesting to say the least, but I doubt it'd happen.

I think that the Imperium will be shattered eventually all the gaurd,en and space marines will stop and think for a moment
"hummm lets see what are we fighting for, some dead guy on a throne? No, freedom of the imperium? Imerpium's not free anyway, A better place to live? Yes Constant war? maybe. So now what do we do, turn on the imperium and set up a new human empire fighting to defend a worth while home? YES!"
And so the Imperium will fall into disarray and an epic war between the old imperium and the new imperium will follow the remanats will quietly receed away to escape destruction alowing the humans to survive and struggle on in a refurbished galaxy where man no longer decides fate where all the galaxy is ruled by different powers as in the end there are so many different powerfull races that no one can provale.

Well people say GW wont let that happen in a negative way, or so i anticipate it. I really think that none of us would like to see the end of 40k as such a thing would lead your models on a shelf being useless, or GW would end then story when they go broke. All in all, the good thing with 40k is that with the use of some lovely painted figures and terrain you 'live' a sci fi movie that you are starring and that it never ends, what more can you ask from a tabletop game?

Sieggfried wrote:Well people say GW wont let that happen in a negative way, or so i anticipate it. I really think that none of us would like to see the end of 40k as such a thing would lead your models on a shelf being useless, or GW would end then story when they go broke. All in all, the good thing with 40k is that with the use of some lovely painted figures and terrain you 'live' a sci fi movie that you are starring and that it never ends, what more can you ask from a tabletop game?

I do think that while GW shouldn't have the Imperium crumble, it should be put into a serious open challenge. Something like Segmentum Tempestus falling to a Tyranid Hive Fleet, a military coup on Terra that leads to a new Age of Apostasy, the Cadian Sector falls, etc.

Naturally though, GW won't let that happen. I'd like to see a future where the Imperium is split between people of the Old Order and people of the New Order should the Emperor wake up, it'd make things interesting to say the least, but I doubt it'd happen.

I just don't believe they have enough creativity and talent within the company for any major change to the fluff, and besides it wouldn't increase sales all that much anyway, so there's no point in investing in that side of things.

On topic, in real life the Imperium will never fall in the fluff, as others have said it would end a large portion of GW sales and would have to lead to a full scale product line revolution - its just not possible without inventing an entirely new game (light bulb moment XD).

But if I had to personally speculate on what would happen on the future of the Warhammer 40,000 universe based on the current events in said universe (and using my knowledge of history ) I don't think the Imperium would fall entirely for at least another 7000 years. Why's this? The obvious comparison to draw would be between the fall of the late Roman Empire. The situation in the 40k universe looks remarkably (and probably deliberately) similar to the Roman Empire in the year 400ad - coincidence in numbers I think not! Accelerate forward by a factor of 100 years and the Imperium is at a very similar turning point. Basically within a few more years the roman Empire collapsed in on itself largely due to huge external pressures from barbarians (xenos in 40k world) and a lack of income due to a lack of new conquests and administrative issues. However the strong part of the Empire, the eastern part remained for at least another 700 years, so thats what my original projection of the Imperium lasting another 7000 years is based on! LOL!

But the Imperium is to big to just fall, some humans will survive because it's what we do and so the Imperium may fall but man dosen't.

Captain Knight wrote:But the Imperium is to big to just fall, some humans will survive because it's what we do and so the Imperium may fall but man dosen't.

Doubt it. FW and BL novels give the idea that with the death of the Emperor, all of humanity falls to Chaos which would create a new Eye of Terror the size of the Imperium. FW says that the Chaos gods seek to cause the galaxy and the Warp to become one which would kill everyone but are stopped by the Emp's efforts(IIRC).

To me thats how 40k should end. The galaxy becomes one with the Warp thus killing everyone but with everyone dead, all the daemons and nastiness of the Warp like the Chaos gods die as well. So in the end the Warp becomes calm again just like it was all those uncounted years ago.

Captain Knight wrote:But the Imperium is to big to just fall, some humans will survive because it's what we do and so the Imperium may fall but man dosen't.

Make up your mind then. Are you talking about humanity as a species or the Imperium as a faction? Either way, the Imperium WILL fall, it's a inevitable conclusion that can't be avoided.

Not even with plot armour?

Or with GW decision to not move the plot.
How can something fall if timeline won't advance?

black templar wrote:I would say the imperium and Eldar will teamup for a final defence and the others races will launch a full on assault on terra.

Assaulting Terra is pointless and unnecessary. Why attack the heavily defended heart of an Empire when it is easier to whittle away its outer ranges and slowly bleed it of resources. You destroy the Imperium one planet at a time, and slowly beat it back. It won't get stronger as you get closer to the heart, since it's losing its ability to make more ships, vehicles and recruit military forces. By the time the Imperium is driven back to Terra, it won't have defenses worth a crap.

Brother Coa wrote:Or with GW decision to not move the plot.
How can something fall if timeline won't advance?

I agree. I guess we'll have to wait until GW renames it "Warhammer 41,000"

Brother Coa wrote:Or with GW decision to not move the plot.
How can something fall if timeline won't advance?

Ah, but how can the Imperium rise as you keep claiming if they won't advance the plot?

Brother Coa wrote:Guys, Imperium will not fall.

If they ever decide to finish the story, they will probably resurrect the Emperor via Sensei. But before resurrection he will probably do something bad ass in the Warp ( not killing Chaos Gods but maybe close the Eye of Terror ). After that he will just start another Great Crusade with more Space Marines then ever, Primarch will return, the ones that are wounded will be healed again and Imperium will rule the galaxy.

That is, of course, one way of finishing the story if they ever decide to.

10,000 years beyond the 41st after the final war of Terra, at the height of their power, a Tau excavation team ascends a massive structure that looks to have been a once mighty structure.

As drones go about humming through the desert ruins, a team of scientists will climb the ancient steps. Steps that once belonged to what Gues'Va called "The God Emperor."

The throne room's ancient gates destroyed by Chaos in the final battle. His chair will be cataloged, his artifacts taken back for study, his Empire forgotten by history.

Then Aun"viel, God Leader of the Tau Empire, will plant a flag on the throne and do a moon walk around the palace room.

Not quite...

Eventually, at the end of all things, Chaos will reign supreme. This is an inevitability, and nothing that any mortal race, regardless of their iniquity, can prevent. The struggle of the forces of Order only delay the inevitable, they are powerless to prevent it.

The Tau? Doesn't matter if they have a low Warp-presence... at the final stages of the Great Game, matter itself will boil away into the ephemera of the Warp. The Tyranids, bereft of biomass, will simply starve... this is assuming that any survive the utterly limitless hordes of daemons and warp-entities that are now given free reign to come and go as they please once the barrier between the Warp and Realspace is finally, completely destroyed. The Necrons can look forward to eternity as the playthings of daemonic hordes. Final Death would be a release, but one they will be denied.

The Eldar, of course, will simply be consumed by Slaanesh. This is a given. S/he will sup them like nectar and ambrosia.

The Orks? I can see them falling to Nurgle, primarily. Millions, even billions, will of course die in glorious battle with the daemon... but it will be a parasite of some kind, a mold or fungus, that eventually destroys the Ork. Some kind of parasitic, fungal bacteria that replicates along with sporing Orks that then gives rise to Plague-bearer Orks that will spell the doom of Ork-kind. Gork and Mork probably won't notice, really. They don't participate in the goings-on in the Warp so long as other entities don't mess with them, so while a few upstart Daemon Princes and the like might get thumped, I don't see them taking much of an interest in what the Great Four are doing.

^ That is why everyone needs to join the Greater Good.

Because that is a sad and evil ending!

When the Emperor dies, He will use His full warp-god powers to restore His physical body to normal. He would then step down from the Throne and lead the Imperium in person once more. So no, the Imperium will never fall. The Imperium Overcomes.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:
10,000 years beyond the 41st after the final war of Terra, at the height of their power, a Tau excavation team ascends a massive structure that looks to have been a once mighty structure.

As drones go about humming through the desert ruins, a team of scientists will climb the ancient steps. Steps that once belonged to what Gues'Va called "The God Emperor."

The throne room's ancient gates destroyed by Chaos in the final battle. His chair will be cataloged, his artifacts taken back for study, his Empire forgotten by history.

Then Aun"viel, God Leader of the Tau Empire, will plant a flag on the throne and do a moon walk around the palace room.

And what happened when you woke up?

Brother Coa wrote:

BeefCakeSoup wrote:
10,000 years beyond the 41st after the final war of Terra, at the height of their power, a Tau excavation team ascends a massive structure that looks to have been a once mighty structure.

As drones go about humming through the desert ruins, a team of scientists will climb the ancient steps. Steps that once belonged to what Gues'Va called "The God Emperor."

The throne room's ancient gates destroyed by Chaos in the final battle. His chair will be cataloged, his artifacts taken back for study, his Empire forgotten by history.

Then Aun"viel, God Leader of the Tau Empire, will plant a flag on the throne and do a moon walk around the palace room.

And what happened when you woke up?

He'd still be off !

The galaxy should end with the death of everyone and the Warp at peace at last.

Then a yet better story:

Children are playing outside their homes some in millenium 51'st.

Then, the ball went to far from them and one boy head to get it.

The ball went to the strange looking buildings that were all over the planet.

After he took the ball he stood before the building with his friends also admiring the view.

"Children, children" someone yell. They turned and saw the old men Hector. He was calling them for diiner, one of the children said: "Sorry grampa, but we were looking at this building."

"Is that so?" Hector said, only to be asked again: "Grampa, who lived in them? They don't look like ours at all."

Grampa sit to the nearest rock with all the children gathered around him, getting ready to hear the story.

"A long time ago, in the Age of Ending our kind was on the bring of destruction. Our army's were stretched to much, unable to defend. We were losing battle after battle, getting beaten up real hard from all sides. those were really bad times..." He was interrupted: "Mister, that happened before the Emperor's return?"

"Yes" He continue: "Before the Emperor returned with his remaining sons and led the second Great Crusade that made the galaxy what it is today."

"Then who's building are those?" One child asked him. He answered:" Those buildings are all over this sector, they belong to the race called Tau."

"Our homeworld is called Tau grampa, is it because of them?" His grandson asked.

"This was once their homeworld. They wield great technology for that time. They were quite prosperous, trying to bring their image of order to the galaxy."

"What happened to the grampa?"

"First there was an civil war. Their great general called Farsight build an army and started great Tau civil war to liberate them from the Etherial grasp. Of course in the middle of that war great Tyranid Hive Fleet attacked them. It was only a matter of time, after Farsight killed the last Etherial and proclaim himself Emperor of all Tau, Kroot and Vespid, only 30 worlds remained under their control."

"Did the Tyranids destroyed them?" Another child asked, now all interested to hear the rest of the story.

"No. They were able to defeat both Tyranids and Orks but at the cost of almost 20 worlds and their own homeworld in ruins. They started bulding again when this time we came my boy, and with a force Tau didn't expect from us."

"What happened to Farsight?" Another child ask, now wondering what happened to the Tau Emperor.

"He was killed by Guiliman in combat. As strong as he was, he was no match for Emperor's son. The Ultramarines, now numbering 10.000 Space Marines attacked their homeworld and destroy the last of their kind. Only their buildings remained."

Saying that he left children to wonder for several seconds, thinking about the Tau and how unfortunate ending they suffered. And then he said:"Now come on, now is not the time to think about ancient history. Now it is time to fill up your bellies."

The children laughed and start runing home for dinner. With Hector and his grandson far behind them talking about the new age of the Imperium...

This story bring tear to my eye

Well, at least a little

The Imperium's human, yes? And humans are destructively curious, foolish and ultimately lazy.

So imagine that on the latest tourist visit to Terra ( c'mon, sombody's bucks are needed to pay for all those tanks), little Johnny decides to see what happens when he pushes the big red button with the "DO NOT TOUCH" label.
The Golden Throne switches off, the Astronomicon goes out, Emperor's dead, lots of warring Imperium forces are suddenly lost and alone, somewhere.

Each contingent will probably end the fight it's in at the moment, but that's it. No more intergalactic travel, everybody heads for the nearest inhabitable planet. No more communication across space, so if any bad guys turn up in your neighbourhood you can't call for help, and nobody's listening.

Some humans find they've got stuff other races want, and vice-versa, and they organise TRADE, instead of fighting all the time. Everybody wins, and all live happily ever after.

How can someone this epic fall?

With the Golden Throne slowly failing, the Forces of Chaos breaking trough the Cadian Gate, large portions of Pacificus seceeding ( The Night of a Thousand Rebellions ) while many other worlds fall to the daemon ( The Great Awakening ), Leviathan looming at the horizont and a huge Whaaagh brewing in the nearly overrun Scarus sector as well as the ancient Necrontyr awakening ( + all the other "smaller" threats that keep the Imperium busy ) the situation most certainly looks grim for the Imperium of Man.

Brother Coa wrote:Then a yet better story:

Children are playing outside their homes some in millenium 51'st.

Then, the ball went to far from them and one boy head to get it.

The ball went to the strange looking buildings that were all over the planet.

After he took the ball he stood before the building with his friends also admiring the view.

"Children, children" someone yell. They turned and saw the old men Hector. He was calling them for diiner, one of the children said: "Sorry grampa, but we were looking at this building."

"Is that so?" Hector said, only to be asked again: "Grampa, who lived in them? They don't look like ours at all."

Grampa sit to the nearest rock with all the children gathered around him, getting ready to hear the story.

"A long time ago, in the Age of Ending our kind was on the bring of destruction. Our army's were stretched to much, unable to defend. We were losing battle after battle, getting beaten up real hard from all sides. those were really bad times..." He was interrupted: "Mister, that happened before the Emperor's return?"

"Yes" He continue: "Before the Emperor returned with his remaining sons and led the second Great Crusade that made the galaxy what it is today."

"Then who's building are those?" One child asked him. He answered:" Those buildings are all over this sector, they belong to the race called Tau."

"Our homeworld is called Tau grampa, is it because of them?" His grandson asked.

"This was once their homeworld. They wield great technology for that time. They were quite prosperous, trying to bring their image of order to the galaxy."

"What happened to the grampa?"

"First there was an civil war. Their great general called Farsight build an army and started great Tau civil war to liberate them from the Etherial grasp. Of course in the middle of that war great Tyranid Hive Fleet attacked them. It was only a matter of time, after Farsight killed the last Etherial and proclaim himself Emperor of all Tau, Kroot and Vespid, only 30 worlds remained under their control."

"Did the Tyranids destroyed them?" Another child asked, now all interested to hear the rest of the story.

"No. They were able to defeat both Tyranids and Orks but at the cost of almost 20 worlds and their own homeworld in ruins. They started bulding again when this time we came my boy, and with a force Tau didn't expect from us."

"What happened to Farsight?" Another child ask, now wondering what happened to the Tau Emperor.

"He was killed by Guiliman in combat. As strong as he was, he was no match for Emperor's son. The Ultramarines, now numbering 10.000 Space Marines attacked their homeworld and destroy the last of their kind. Only their buildings remained."

Saying that he left children to wonder for several seconds, thinking about the Tau and how unfortunate ending they suffered. And then he said:"Now come on, now is not the time to think about ancient history. Now it is time to fill up your bellies."

The children laughed and start runing home for dinner. With Hector and his grandson far behind them talking about the new age of the Imperium...

This story bring tear to my eye

Well, at least a little

Except Guilliman is dying, the Tau could never beat the Orks or Nids and Imperial citizens barely know what happened ten years ago, never mind ten thousand.

Here, children, is the true ending of the Imperium:

After the Thirteenth Black Crusade, the Forces of Chaos and the Armies of the Imperium remained in deadlock, fighting what seemed to be an eternal war over the increasingly scarred surface of Cadia. However, the Imperium became slowly more strained by the increasing bulk of the Tyranid Fleets assaulting the galaxy and the seemingly endless tide of awakening Necrons. After an assurance by Herron that he could hold the forces of Chaos on Cadia for at least the four hundred years his predecessor Creed had achieved, the High Lords re-located the majority of the reinforcements throughout the galaxy to combat these rising threats. It would prove a fatal error. With a few calculated bargains, Herron forced himself into control of every aspect of Cadia's armies. As resources steadily trickled away, the Cadians led a rebellion against their leader, battling through trap after trap. When they finally reached the command room of the traitor, the rebels were gunned down by Alpha Legion marines, who then killed Herron, claiming he had fulfilled the role they had designed for him, and he had to pay the price for betraying the Emperor.

So did Cadia finally fall. The Traitor Legions and their heretical allies were unleashed upon the galaxy with a force born of almost twenty thousand years of hatred. The Emperor's Children split from the main force, hunting Craftworld after Craftworld. Spirit Stones were shattered as heretical bargains were fulfilled, unleashing daemons within the sanctuaries of the dying race, and Lugannath, Yme-Loc, Iybraesil and Varantha fell. The remainder fled further from the rest of the galaxy, haunted by the laughter of Slaanesh as it destroyed their sleeping god Ynnead.

The World Eaters were left in a war against Orks for almost two decades. The greenskins were led by a massive nine hundred year old ork identifying itself as the prophet of Gork'n'Mork. The deadlock was broken as the bloodshed released enough energy for the return of the the fell primarch Angron. The two giants approached each other as equals, Thrakka vowing to lend his aid to the war, providing they return to 'haff a proper Waagh wen you'ze finished wit dem puny 'umies'. The combined force fell on Armageddon, burning the planet in a combined triumph and revenge.

It took that ten years for Abaddon to reach the holy planet Terra, not because of Imperial resistance, but because of meticulous attention to each Imperial planet they came across. The Night Lords and Iron Warriors were instrumental in this effort, utilizing their respective talents to the fullest against the planets which had been fortified in preparation for the release of Chaos. The Word Bearers arrived on these planets after the wars, either teaching the population a new, truer faith or sacrificing entire continents for daemonic bargains. The Thousand Sons vanished, reappearing over the skies of Fenris. The two bitter foes clashed, the legion of Tzeentch visiting the same destruction on the homeworld of the Space Wolves that their brothers had brought to theirs. Perhaps attracted by the danger of his home, Russ re-appeared to aid his sons. Now appearing more wolf than man, he engaged Magnus in a titanic battle. The very plates of the planet shook beneath their fury. Even the previously stable fortress-monastery of the chapter began to quake. Magnus finally unleashed his sorcerous might on the planet, wreathing it in a hellish storm which mutated everything it hit with its power. The Thousand Sons were unaffected due to Ahriman's meddling, and the similarities between the spells which decimated the enemies has been noted. Turning his undivided attention to his brother, Magnus obliterated him, body and mind.

The Death Guard guarded the Black Crusade from attacks on the dark army. Repelling both Necron and Tyranid, Nurgle blessed them with diseases which corroded both the genes of the bio-weapons and the metal of the undead. They took particular enjoyment from the Battle of Hydraphur, which saw the final stand of the Grey Knights. In a battle spanning decades, the Knights battled as only true warriors of the Emperor could. The Warp storms which enveloped the planet brought daemonic support to the Death Guard, but also gave the Knights the support of their Grand Master. With his appearance, the Grey Knights seemed to take advantage over their foes, resisting the diseases of Nurgle and destroying the corruption which had been brought to the planet. In an attempt to destroy the legion once and for all, Draigo led a spear-head attack against the leader of the force, Typhus, breaking into the fetid fortress of the servants of Nurgle. However, his force found only death. The hundred were whittled down to twenty by the ten Great Unclean Ones they found within, and as they explored the fortress, they found it to be otherwise empty. Vowing revenge, Draigo and his force began to withdraw, finding their way blocked by the skeletal primarch Mortarion and his Death Shroud. Leaving his bodyguard to prevent any escape, Mortarion battled the Knights alone and unaided, plunging the his Manreaper deep into Draigo's chest and ripping out his heart.

During this time, the Tyrant of Badab had not been idle. His Red Corsairs laid waste to the Imperial shipping lanes, not for their own profit, but to stop Imperial reinforcement against other threats. In desperation, the High Lords sent six chapters against the Red Corsairs, only to see them join Blackheart one by one. The Ultramarines, handicapped by their home planet's distance from Terra, were left stranded in the warp as the gods unleashed storm after storm on the Imperial allies.

A the end of the decade of siege, Abaddon's forces reached Terra, the daemon primarchs relishing this second chance for revenge. Once again, the Iron Warriors broke the defences of the Imperial Fists, leaving the Night Lords and Emperor's Children free to burn terror into the hearts of the planet once again. The combined forces of the Chaos gods broke the Imperial resistance, and the golden throne was destroyed. The False Emperor was burned and daemons ravaged the once-great planet. Abaddon had taken his prize, but the remainder of the Imperium had yet to be destroyed. But it would fall...