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I think if events get more dire, GW should introduce new fluff stating that space marine chapters are starting to expand beyond the 1,000 man cap.

Then expand the squad size on TT by 2 models but for the same price as a 10 man squad. Being a space marine player, I could go along with that.

IronSnake wrote:I think if events get more dire, GW should introduce new fluff stating that space marine chapters are starting to expand beyond the 1,000 man cap.

Then expand the squad size on TT by 2 models but for the same price as a 10 man squad. Being a space marine player, I could go along with that.

A lot are expanding past the 1000 cap. BT are so huge that you don't put a number on how many there are. Then you get a lot of people who argue that support staff and tanks don't fit in the cap. The limit of 1000 is so eroded and weak these days.

Yeah it's typically 1,000 actual space marines and then something like 2-3,000 staff? I wonder if Dreadnoughts take up space in the 1,000 man cap.

In regards to GW not advancing the plot, isn't stagnation of the plot kind of one of the reasons why they've changed the scope of the global campaigns (whenever they do them >.<? Specifically in regards to the Eye of Terror campaign when the forces of Chaos just barely beat out the forces of Good. It was my understanding that once the results were in GW kind of went "oh crap!" because this constituted an unexpected outcome of the campaign and a fundamental shift forward in the storyline.

Course with the last rulebook we actually saw hints of the Golden Throne failing, so who knows? Maybe we'll actually see the beginnings of the 42nd millenium with the coming of 6th ed.

They stopped global campaigns for that reason. While the idea was there and was done with good intentions (let the players influence the story), they didn't get the expected results so they basically made up their preferred end anyway. Same with what happened in the Storm of Chaos campaign for Fantasy (with Archaon getting unexpectedly bonked on the head by Grimgor Ironhide).

Eye of Terror and Storm of Chaos were the last of the campaign books. Now we get expansions.

IronSnake wrote:Yeah it's typically 1,000 actual space marines and then something like 2-3,000 staff? I wonder if Dreadnoughts take up space in the 1,000 man cap.

If the cap was treated with any kind of respect, they would count. The cap dosen't seem to have that much respect though. Dreadnoughts might fit in a loop hole. Well there not really SM, so they shouldn't count kind of thing.

Let me answer with this video (didn't make it, my thanks to the person who did).

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Not my usual reply to this question, but hey.. i play BT too, once in a while

This thread is full of heresy.

Yes, it will because everyone hates them. It's true. They lost themselves in the crusades to expand their empire.

phhaeron Latoch wrote:Yes, it will because everyone hates them. It's true. They lost themselves in the crusades to expand their empire.

Wrong. Everyone n 40k either hate each other or have disdain for each other. You seem to be of the opinion that everyone in the galaxy lived in peace with each other before the coming of the Imperium. This is false. Planets have been found by the Imperium that have ruins of ancient civs that destroyed each other due to the effects of other alien weapons in orbit and other races attack each other like in Xenology with Eldar attacking the insect race etc.

This thread is full of HERESY.

I can see the imperium falling if GW ever looses enough money and eventually stops making product and has to close its doors. They would probably give it a happy ending to allow the few hundred fans left at the end some closure. But with new video games, a MMORPG on the way, and more expansions and finecasts projected... I suspect that day will be long in comming. Maybe we'll get to WH 50k ?

If the novel Legion is correct, then there should be only Chaos in 50k, with 5 Chaos Powers. If, on the other hand, the Star Child Cycle is completed when the Golden Throne fails, then the Emperor is reborn and only Humans would be left in 50k. So no, I don't think we'll ever get to 50k. Unless they specifically retcon this...

This is how it ends:

And Sneaks, The Sneakiest Sneaker wearing specially trained Snotling would use his stealthiest sneaking to inflitrate the terra. The Imperium never saw it coming. All sneaks did was pull the plug.

BUT, when he did the power of the Emperor of Mankind flooded into him. Sneaks ballooned with his new awesome might, the strenf an kunnin of Gork and Mork channeled directly into him. His power would radiate outward, a beacon to all the orks in all of the Galaxies.

Gathered together under the Banner of the Ork gods realized, the Ork forces would eradicate all those not fit to face in battle. The Humies all scattered after the Terra got krumped proper by Sneaks Ascended. Chaos was fun, but each humie destroyed weakened the imaginary ones and Gork and Mork made sure the gods fought fair (cause Mork was to kunnin for the sneaky gits, and Gork mashed up the ones who thought they could stand and fight)

The humies left over would all scatter, but it was of little note to the Orks. The metal guys tried to use some sorta map to kill Sneaks, but it blowed up when one of the stealth snot squads messed with all the plug things. The bird ones assimilated, the blue ones ran away. The skinny psychic ones retreated to the webway, the orks dunno what what happened to them in there, but they were always ready for a fight if they came out. The nids kept coming, and the Orks kept killing. It was the paradise that Gork and Mork had always promised, a future with nothing but WAR!

How does the emp reborn / not mean the Eldar, Dark Eldar, Tau, Orks and 'nids magically vanish leaving only humans / chaos?

Emperor being reborn means the Imperium gets reborn as well (after a bloody civil war as the Emperor restores His Imperial Truth), so the Imperium gets an EFFICIENT bureaucracy held together by a living god, Astartes Legions reappear, and Second Great Crusade conquers the galaxy while Chaos Powers starve to death. If the Emperor does not get reborn, a fifth Chaos Power embodying Mankind's dark side would appear, while the Eye of Terror would expand to cover the whole Imperium (fall of the Imperium = Fall of Mankind). That's 2/3rds of the galaxy. No other race in the galaxy can stand against Chaos at this point, since the Imperium has pretty much made itself the largely dominant and largest military power in the galaxy.

Ovion wrote:How does the emp reborn / not mean the Eldar, Dark Eldar, Tau, Orks and 'nids magically vanish leaving only humans / chaos?

If Emperor get's reborn, he will be probably as strong as Chaos God. Only in material world.
+ he will get back Space marine Legions, update current tech...
In short - aliens would be dead as Tyranids on the planet that is about to get hit by Exterminatus in 2 seconds.

Brother Coa wrote:

Ovion wrote:How does the emp reborn / not mean the Eldar, Dark Eldar, Tau, Orks and 'nids magically vanish leaving only humans / chaos?

If Emperor get's reborn, he will be probably as strong as Chaos God. Only in material world.
+ he will get back Space marine Legions, update current tech...
In short - aliens would be dead as Tyranids on the planet that is about to get hit by Exterminatus in 2 seconds.

Probably both...we should start a thread discussing the state of the Imperium after the Emperor is reborn...a civil war is pretty much guaranteed...both here and the 40k universe.

Tadashi wrote:If the novel Legion is correct, then there should be only Chaos in 50k, with 5 Chaos Powers. If, on the other hand, the Star Child Cycle is completed when the Golden Throne fails, then the Emperor is reborn and only Humans would be left in 50k. So no, I don't think we'll ever get to 50k. Unless they specifically retcon this...

Why would the Star Child theory be correct when Tzeentchian cultists were the ones to propose it?

Durza wrote:
Why would the Star Child theory be correct when Tzeentchian cultists were the ones to propose it?

That's what the Inquisition wants you to think

The Imperium will fall eventually and it will be by its own hand.

There is a very good chance (from the ever popular Grimdark position ) that the Emperor is dead, and the last acts he ever conciously enabled was to activate the Golden throne and ignite the Astronomicon.

The 1000 psykers consumed daily are what powers it, the Golden throne merely the focus, The lords of Terra use the myth and cult of the emperor to maintain thier own grasps on power.

And all the acts of Faith and miracles are the result of consensual reality providing the impetus (sort of the way orks believe something makes it happen.) not the actions of some God emperor helping his followers from the beyond.

That the Grim truth may be that there will be no reborn emperor, no star child, no great rebirth of the imperium of man, that is golden years are behind it, and all that is left is the slow descent into oblivion....

The Vain actions of the highlords to hold the Imperium together are only prolonging the inevitable, The Empire fell on the bridge of Horus's flagship, its just been on life support since.

There's some Grimdark for ya.

As it should be, fanboy conspiracy theories aside

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:There is a very good chance (from the ever popular Grimdark position ) that the Emperor is dead, and the last acts he ever conciously enabled was to activate the Golden throne and ignite the Astronomicon.

The 1000 psykers consumed daily are what powers it, the Golden throne merely the focus, The lords of Terra use the myth and cult of the emperor to maintain thier own grasps on power.

And all the acts of Faith and miracles are the result of consensual reality providing the impetus (sort of the way orks believe something makes it happen.) not the actions of some God emperor helping his followers from the beyond.

That the Grim truth may be that there will be no reborn emperor, no star child, no great rebirth of the imperium of man, that is golden years are behind it, and all that is left is the slow descent into oblivion....

The Vain actions of the highlords to hold the Imperium together are only prolonging the inevitable, The Empire fell on the bridge of Horus's flagship, its just been on life support since.

There's some Grimdark for ya.

And on the other hand - you can't prove it that the Emperor is actually dead. And that it is not him that do those miracles.
In fact, 5'th edition fluff refers to that Emperor is still very much alive, whiel your theory is only guessing.
So


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Durza wrote:
Why would the Star Child theory be correct when Tzeentchian cultists were the ones to propose it?

The Inquisition said that, for what we all know they could made up the story to justify killing all those people.
"We found their lair, one of the was Chaos Daemon and we kill them all" while in reality they just kileld a bunch of ordinary cultist.
Sounds like Inquisition to me.

Chaos will never be defeated unless life itself disappears from the universe. The best that the races of 40k can hope for is to hold it off and seal it in the Warp, or take the Eldar route and limit their Warp presence as much as possible.

TrollPie wrote:Chaos will never be defeated unless life itself disappears from the universe. The best that the races of 40k can hope for is to hold it off and seal it in the Warp, or take the Eldar route and limit their Warp presence as much as possible.

Necrons have tech that disperse Warp fields. If they start building that on a massive scale all around the galaxy there woudl be no Chaos at all.

Alright here is the thing, the franchise won't divert from it's course as it's effective for sales. However I could see GW letting the imperium decay a bit more than it already has. However, the relations of the universe for this post and many couldn't be more wrong. If the Emperor were to die, 90% of warp travel is no longer valid, the emperor is a beacon of pyschic energy which their navigators rely on to foresee warp jumps it would effectively cripple military sitatuions. That being said they still have their pysker choirs which would warn all needed factions of incoming attacks, they would just need to use calcuated jumps were are a little mor dangerous.

Nids have no known limit to size or number since they come from outside the galaxy. The orks are in this fashion too, an imperial probe that was sent during the infancy of the imperium is still recording worlds full of orks. The High lords of terra have dedicated so much to facing these 2 threats alone no even comparing it to chaos that the Imperium more or less either ignores or destroys all other presences of xenos this would remain unchanged.

The Eldar are a dying out people they have said so themselves, this being said I could foresee they suffering a similar fate of the necron eventually as entire craftworlds start to resemble tomb worlds with just a few warlocks and farseers tending to the wraithguards and lords of their craft worlds.

The Dark eldar I admittantly know little of but they have always seems secured.

The Tau, yes i imagine would be over-run but remember even the Imperium, orks and nids haven't been able to weed them out effective due to their tech so if they go out it will be one hell of a war of attrition

In my opinion the Necron despite the HERP DERP of their codex, are threat to the imperium but they suffer the role of universal villain which means when they appear everyone wants to destroy them perhaps more than any army out there besides chaos but at least orks, nids and dark eldar can ignore their presence for more or less if they put their minds to it (to them the galaxy just got more interesting).

I think if the universe of 40k was to come crashing down it would ultimately resolve as thus, Orks and Nids fight to the point where when one of them wins they prove to become the dominate force in the material universe.

If Orks won, they would slowly grow unchecked until the universe was crushed under the weight of numbers but their eradication would be more of a passive one

If nids won they'd have untold levels of biomass enough to eradicate the universe in a aggressive fashion

The ademn i'd like to bring up to pass is chaos would probably continue it's warfare and perhaps those factions would bring galactic doom to the warp where things might change.

But this is all really .... really... REALLY unlikely to pass. So we've all wasted our time good job people.

Brother Coa wrote:

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:There is a very good chance (from the ever popular Grimdark position ) that the Emperor is dead, and the last acts he ever conciously enabled was to activate the Golden throne and ignite the Astronomicon.

The 1000 psykers consumed daily are what powers it, the Golden throne merely the focus, The lords of Terra use the myth and cult of the emperor to maintain thier own grasps on power.

And all the acts of Faith and miracles are the result of consensual reality providing the impetus (sort of the way orks believe something makes it happen.) not the actions of some God emperor helping his followers from the beyond.

That the Grim truth may be that there will be no reborn emperor, no star child, no great rebirth of the imperium of man, that is golden years are behind it, and all that is left is the slow descent into oblivion....

The Vain actions of the highlords to hold the Imperium together are only prolonging the inevitable, The Empire fell on the bridge of Horus's flagship, its just been on life support since.

There's some Grimdark for ya.

And on the other hand - you can't prove it that the Emperor is actually dead. And that it is not him that do those miracles.
In fact, 5'th edition fluff refers to that Emperor is still very much alive, whiel your theory is only guessing.
So


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Durza wrote:
Why would the Star Child theory be correct when Tzeentchian cultists were the ones to propose it?

The Inquisition said that, for what we all know they could made up the story to justify killing all those people.
"We found their lair, one of the was Chaos Daemon and we kill them all" while in reality they just kileld a bunch of ordinary cultist.
Sounds like Inquisition to me.

And you can't prove he's alive either, since all the "proof" you cite is visions and portents, and stigmata, where the reality is its a corpse on a fancy gold toliet, he does not talk, walk, of even nod his head, and is portrayed even in the art as a skeletal corpse, so there may be more "proof" as him being actually dead, and the entire religion is a total sham.

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
And you can't prove he's alive either, since all the "proof" you cite is visions and portents, and stigmata, where the reality is its a corpse on a fancy gold toliet, he does not talk, walk, of even nod his head, and is portrayed even in the art as a skeletal corpse, so there may be more "proof" as him being actually dead, and the entire religion is a total sham.

Not visions, but actual text.
5'th edition rulebook, page 101.
HE is very much alive, and kicking Chaos Gods buts.

Now show me your proff...
Oh yeah, you can't

LOL, sure man, whatever you say, blind faith, is still blindness.

p.s. my proof is the 9k+ years of him being a corpse...and the smell of course.