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They are just to moronic to conceive the real problems of the universe.

Not moronic...simple-minded.

Yeah I guess. Still can't stand those two "gods" though

Which problems of the universe do they not understand, that would in any way be relevant to orks? Not being snarky, just curious what you meant.

Can't say i'm over-fond of Big E either, not that he's a god, really... *wink* (ok, that one was a smidge snarky )

In terms of what WILL happen, nothing, because time is frozen by GW. But in terms of what WOULD happen, id say that the near-last entry in the Time of Ending timeline in the rulebook is rather ominous....

"The tech-priests of the Adeptus Mechanicus find flaws in the Golden Throne beyond their ability to repair".

Crystal Geyser wrote:In terms of what WILL happen, nothing, because time is frozen by GW. But in terms of what WOULD happen, id say that the near-last entry in the Time of Ending timeline in the rulebook is rather ominous....

"The tech-priests of the Adeptus Mechanicus find flaws in the Golden Throne beyond their ability to repair".

That doesn't end anything.....

Yeah, GW might actually use it to their advantage. 1) The Emperor dies, and the Imperium falls apart, beginning the Second Age of Strife. 2) The Space Marine Chapters create realms out of the fallen Imperium, and form alliances with the Tau, Necrons, and Eldar to resist the Tyranids, Chaos, and the Orks. 3) The Hive Fleets are repelled, but the Eldar and most of Mankind perish in the process. 4) Ynnead awakens, and Chaos is driven back. 5) The Emperor is reborn on Terra, the loyalist Primarchs return, and the Second Great Crusade to reunite the Astartes Splinter Realms and what's left of Mankind and reconquer the galaxy begins.

Tadashi wrote:Yeah, GW might actually use it to their advantage. 1) The Emperor dies, and the Imperium falls apart, beginning the Second Age of Strife. 2) The Space Marine Chapters create realms out of the fallen Imperium, and form alliances with the Tau, Necrons, and Eldar to resist the Tyranids, Chaos, and the Orks. 3) The Hive Fleets are repelled, but the Eldar and most of Mankind perish in the process. 4) Ynnead awakens, and Chaos is driven back. 5) The Emperor is reborn on Terra, the loyalist Primarchs return, and the Second Great Crusade to reunite the Astartes Splinter Realms and what's left of Mankind and reconquer the galaxy begins.

All but the death of the nids sounds good. Remember you can't just delete a major faction. Something more complicated would have to happen.

1) The Emperor dies, and the Imperium falls apart, beginning the Second Age of Strife. 2) The Space Marine Chapters create realms out of the fallen Imperium, and form alliances with the Tau, Necrons, and Eldar to resist the Tyranids, Chaos, and the Orks. 3) The Hive Fleets are repelled, but the Eldar and Tau all but perish, and most of Mankind perish in the process, and a few Splinter Fleet remains. 4) Ynnead awakens, and Chaos is driven back as he and Slaanesh destroy each other. 5) While the remaining Necrons and Chaos followers fight each other to exhaustion (not to mention the Orks), the Emperor is reborn on Terra, the loyalist Primarchs return, and the Second Great Crusade to reunite the Astartes Splinter Realms and what's left of Mankind and reconquer the galaxy begins.

Who knows, maybe the Emperor would be willing to make an arrangement with the surviving Eldar (who don't have to worry about Slaanesh anymore) and Tau. After all, the Greater Good sounds a lot like the Imperial Truth, and the Eldar don't have to worry about the long-term survival of their race anymore (at least, not as much).

If the Emperor was to wake up and begin another great crusade, the Tyranids would see this and double their efforts into taking the galaxy, perhaps sending in their entire force. Also, you can't just delete entire armies. Eldar and Tau cannot get completely wiped out because they still make money for GW. Not as much as SMs, mind you, but enough to make GW not do that. Also, there would be thousands of Eldar and Tau players who would be up in arms over the absolute destruction of their army, which would end support for it.

Either the Emperor will wake the heck up and get the Imperium's act together (slaughtering most of the Inquisition and High Lords because of their actions, note that is the Emperor wakes/is reborn and this does not happen I will be pissed), or the second age of strife will occur.

Tadashi wrote:1) The Emperor dies, and the Imperium falls apart, beginning the Second Age of Strife. 2) The Space Marine Chapters create realms out of the fallen Imperium, and form alliances with the Tau, Necrons, and Eldar to resist the Tyranids, Chaos, and the Orks. 3) The Hive Fleets are repelled, but the Eldar and Tau all but perish, and most of Mankind perish in the process, and a few Splinter Fleet remains. 4) Ynnead awakens, and Chaos is driven back as he and Slaanesh destroy each other. 5) While the remaining Necrons and Chaos followers fight each other to exhaustion (not to mention the Orks), the Emperor is reborn on Terra, the loyalist Primarchs return, and the Second Great Crusade to reunite the Astartes Splinter Realms and what's left of Mankind and reconquer the galaxy begins.

Who knows, maybe the Emperor would be willing to make an arrangement with the surviving Eldar (who don't have to worry about Slaanesh anymore) and Tau. After all, the Greater Good sounds a lot like the Imperial Truth, and the Eldar don't have to worry about the long-term survival of their race anymore (at least, not as much).

On what level of ozone are you breathing to think that the aliens you've been persucuting since you met them have an inkling or desire to help the Imperium, especially after watching it shatter and wallow in its death throes? And somehow only humanity regains its strength enough to launch another Seocnd Great Crusade?!

They did it the first time...... while all the delegate territories of human space were being ransacked by orks the emperor used the space marine legions to launch the original crusade. Not to mention the return of the loyalist primarchs. Can you imagine how hard the different chapters will fight with their true leader back? AND their primarch.

Not to mention eldar make alliances with humans all the time when it suits their needs. Tyranid chaos and orks are definitely a good reason.

So o think he is breathing the same level of ozone as you bub.

The emperor reborn as a god would be pretty epic. He will be recreate the best of his most faithful into new forms to bring the battle to the chaos gods.

So, think of all the loyalist primarchs which are already dead. He raises them into archangels, so that they would all be like the equivalent of the daemon prince primarchs.

So, Lemun Russ, the Lion, Robert G, would all be reborn and hence finally "come back". Many of the best of the space marines, imperium who have died would also be given new form as battle angels.

The emperor will then start a second crusade! Only this time, its not going to be just IG and the space marine legions. This time, it will be the entire imperium, all the loyalist space marines, plus the celestial host of battle angels of past dead heroes and the archangel primarchs themselves now given new form. Will be epic! I think I will start a new thread that focus on just this topic alone!

Tadashi wrote:1) The Emperor dies, and the Imperium falls apart, beginning the Second Age of Strife. 2) The Space Marine Chapters create realms out of the fallen Imperium, and form alliances with the Tau, Necrons, and Eldar to resist the Tyranids, Chaos, and the Orks. 3) The Hive Fleets are repelled, but the Eldar and Tau all but perish, and most of Mankind perish in the process, and a few Splinter Fleet remains. 4) Ynnead awakens, and Chaos is driven back as he and Slaanesh destroy each other. 5) While the remaining Necrons and Chaos followers fight each other to exhaustion (not to mention the Orks), the Emperor is reborn on Terra, the loyalist Primarchs return, and the Second Great Crusade to reunite the Astartes Splinter Realms and what's left of Mankind and reconquer the galaxy begins.

Who knows, maybe the Emperor would be willing to make an arrangement with the surviving Eldar (who don't have to worry about Slaanesh anymore) and Tau. After all, the Greater Good sounds a lot like the Imperial Truth, and the Eldar don't have to worry about the long-term survival of their race anymore (at least, not as much).

Except every Eldar needs to be dead in order for Ynnead to awaken, and even then his odds aren't much better than even against Slaanesh. Once the Eldar are dead, Ynnead's out of power supply, so even if he starts out more powerful, Slaanesh would still be getting power from the rest of the galaxy (making it stronger to start with IMO) and would win any kind of long term fight. Not to mention that going by the others, Warp gods take a while to awaken and Slaanesh could just attack before Ynnead became self-aware. And Khorne would just murder Ynnead if he tried any kind of other action against Chaos, so the 'driving back' won't happen. I think Ynnead is just an attempt by the Farseers to keep the Eldar fighting, like they don't tell anyone what happens to the sacrifices to Khaine.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:They did it the first time...... while all the delegate territories of human space were being ransacked by orks the emperor used the space marine legions to launch the original crusade. Not to mention the return of the loyalist primarchs. Can you imagine how hard the different chapters will fight with their true leader back? AND their primarch.

Not to mention eldar make alliances with humans all the time when it suits their needs. Tyranid chaos and orks are definitely a good reason.

But there was alot more going for the Emperor the first time:

- Eighteen Primarchs
- Hundreds of Thousands of Space Marines
- No Tyranids
- No Chaos (until, well, you know)
- No active Necrons and a really weak Void Dragon
- No Ecclesiarchy

However, this time around, there's alot more obstacles which would probably revert humanity back to Terra and its neighboring systems.

1) The nine Traitor Primarchs that don't like the Emperor and have the Four Chaos Gods and Chaos Daemons behind them.

2) The lack of Space Marines and severe attrition. It's doubtful that the majority of Space Marine Chapters on the fringes of the galaxy (and perhaps the furthest reaches of Ultima Segmentum) would not survive the attrition brought on by the dimming of the Astronomicon, not to mention the crippling of Imperial Guard Regiments losing their logistics completely. So it's highly unlikely that the Emperor would find as many Space Marines still active as some hope, by the time the Second Crusade gets that far.

3) As far as aliens helping the Imperium, Eldar might help them a little. The Tau would probably help them, depending on which Tau gets to them first. It seems that the Tau military are branching off into two distinct approaches; the Commander Farsight approach (which Commander Brightsword and IceHeart both respect) and Tau (and Commander ShadowSun). If Farsight's ilk get to the Space Marines first, they probably wouldn't help and just leave the Space Marine to their fate.

4) There's the Void Dragon. The healthy Void Dragon. The particularly irritated, but god-strong Void Dragon that discovers he now has alot of willing minions toiling about his planet, Mars.

5) And if the Emperor becomes a god, the Hive Mind would come at him like a homing beacon, from above or below to challenge him.

6) The Ecclesiarchy. The very thing the Emperor didn't want. I think they'll probably end up like Lorgar and have to be put to the sword.


I'm not saying the Imperium would be obliterated, but it wouldn't be in a position to launch anything-Crusade for a long, long time.

The complete collapse of the Imperium (such as Second Age of Strife) is probably too drastic and could never be resolved imo. Really they should go for a second age of apostasy, where there was anarchy and things were pretty terrible for humanity, but they still were loosely held together. This could be accomplished with the Emperor seemingly "dying" and then a civil war erupts throughout various Imperial factions, not Horus Heresy-level, just similar to the Age of Apostasy. The Space Marines, Inquisition, and (most of) the Mechanicus against the Ecclesiarchy and Adeptus Terra would probably be the right combination.

I prefer the Emperor coming back as god personally. The bad guys all have their own gods mostly. Heck, chaos has 4 gods! Why can't the imperium have one? We always talk about balance right? good vs evil, etc. The chaos gods are created mostly from evil and negative emotions. Then it stands to reason that the Emperor, which stands for all the good traits including nobility, self sacrifice and order should be the counterpart god to the 4 chaos gods, because just as there are evil emotions and deeds being done, there are also countless good emotions and deeds being done as well.

KplKeegan wrote:

But there was alot more going for the Emperor the first time:

- Eighteen Primarchs
- Hundreds of Thousands of Space Marines
- No Tyranids
- No Chaos (until, well, you know)
- No active Necrons and a really weak Void Dragon
- No Ecclesiarchy

However, this time around, there's alot more obstacles which would probably revert humanity back to Terra and its neighboring systems.

KplKeegan wrote:1) The nine Traitor Primarchs that don't like the Emperor and have the Four Chaos Gods and Chaos Daemons behind them.

9 ? if your point starts with 9 traitors,,,, the ones who didn't confront him the first time, who are still dead yet and so on....
4 chaos entities dislike him. Fine let them. Next ed they try to take over and have to oppose a Galaxy, so 1 Emperor and his "minions" isn't a fight between them and unified chaos.

KplKeegan wrote:2) The lack of Space Marines and severe attrition. It's doubtful that the majority of Space Marine Chapters on the fringes of the galaxy (and perhaps the furthest reaches of Ultima Segmentum) would not survive the attrition brought on by the dimming of the Astronomicon, not to mention the crippling of Imperial Guard Regiments losing their logistics completely. So it's highly unlikely that the Emperor would find as many Space Marines still active as some hope, by the time the Second Crusade gets that far.

The first time, GW started with tens of thousands of SM. So its not like a few hundredthousand weren't thinkable as the crusade force once.
Now, we still have 1.000 x 1.000 SM available and per GW's idea of scale thats just 50% of 20 Legions at maximum strength.
They are independent and surely not suffer this attrition you imagine there since it is never their modus operandi and they know their job.
The IG has billions of regiments now, billions! ( thanks to mr cruddace ). Seem the munitorum is able to keep them supplied.
Maybe they lose some, but certainly anyone who gets the logistics of billions of regiments right, isn't just giving up because navigating becomes a challenge. Plus the Astronomican is focused by him, not run, and he could leave Terra and lead the crusade till Ullanor .
The Emperor created the astartes and could do it again. He could leave Terra without ruining the fleets out there.
So why is it unlikely he got enough SM,IG,mech etc and a functioning transport system? The crusade wasn't only collecting troops alongside it also created new bases and furthered the reach of the expeditions. Took 200 years, 200 years of rebuilding lead by the emperor and this time they got maps and must not explore a Galaxy as they had the first time.

KplKeegan wrote:3) As far as aliens helping the Imperium, Eldar might help them a little. The Tau would probably help them, depending on which Tau gets to them first. It seems that the Tau military are branching off into two distinct approaches; the Commander Farsight approach (which Commander Brightsword and IceHeart both respect) and Tau (and Commander ShadowSun). If Farsight's ilk get to the Space Marines first, they probably wouldn't help and just leave the Space Marine to their fate.

I'd rather bet on Farsight than these etherals. Etherals only care for the greater good. Farsight is a soldier and would honor a pact made.
Plus meeting the Emperor himself would go well with a famous leader ( farsight ) and not so well with etherals who consider him dead and hope he stays dead. Can't have competition for the hearts and minds, especially a powerful one like Big E.

KplKeegan wrote:4) There's the Void Dragon. The healthy Void Dragon. The particularly irritated, but god-strong Void Dragon that discovers he now has alot of willing minions toiling about his planet, Mars.

Poor Dragon got deleted by vile evil GW scribes...
Basically his story is at an end. The ties are cut and the necron dex pretty much ignores any hint on C'tan / mechanicum.
OtoH these newcrons like to ally with humans, so yes the new alliance is unified crons and Big E. The E-crons....
Seriously, necrons seem to allow humans to leave, take them as vassals and generally lost this Harvest all life purpose they had.
Plus already got a BA / cron team going. Both species want the nids annihilated, don't like chaos and orks.
Lots of common ground to build upon All hail the new overlords. Looking forward to an age of order, unity, obedience and prosperity as the newcron/human alliance is formed.
Did i miss the Dragon? Not really, he either is a present to the newcrons or stays as honored guest at Mars.

KplKeegan wrote:5) And if the Emperor becomes a god, the Hive Mind would come at him like a homing beacon, from above or below to challenge him.

Fine let it run into that trap. With our new newcron friends it shouldn't challenge the IoM to splinter that hive mind like the C'tan and eldar gods were splintered. Seems the thing to do nowadays...

KplKeegan wrote:6) The Ecclesiarchy. The very thing the Emperor didn't want. I think they'll probably end up like Lorgar and have to be put to the sword.

Big E was around when the first religious wars erupted on old earth. So why should he not adapt and move on?
He probably used the thuinder warriors until he replaced them with the astartes. The Ecclesiarchy would face the same fate.
Use their fervor until they bleed out. The emperor could never alter the view of him in everyones mind to a secular one.
Why fight the lost cause? Just keep the ones in charge in the know. The masses may still happily give their life in his name.

KplKeegan wrote:I'm not saying the Imperium would be obliterated, but it wouldn't be in a position to launch anything-Crusade for a long, long time.

The timeout of the Emperor is the deciding factor, yes. But still this Imperium got enough mass to survive.
The long , long time I doubt. The Emperor, beloved by all, moved on from a bloody civil war, right to the stars.
10 millenia passed since he got stuck on that toilet.
A few years to organize aren't a long time compared to that scale.

1hadhq wrote:Big E was around when the first religious wars erupted on old earth. So why should he not adapt and move on?
He probably used the thuinder warriors until he replaced them with the astartes. The Ecclesiarchy would face the same fate.
Use their fervor until they bleed out. The emperor could never alter the view of him in everyones mind to a secular one.
Why fight the lost cause? Just keep the ones in charge in the know. The masses may still happily give their life in his name.

But the Emperor did not want to be worshipped. At all. I believe this is a solid character trait that would stick to Him if he ever rose again. He abhored faith, especially faith in him, which eventually lead Lorgar to worship the Chaos Gods.

So the Ecclesiarchy in its entirety would apall Him into either disbanding them, or more than likely putting them to the sword to maintain his ideology.

Poor Dragon got deleted by vile evil GW scribes...

Never. He still has a serious bone to pick with the Emperor and should not be denied his chance to smack Him back onto the Golden Toilet.

But still this Imperium got enough mass to survive.

But for how long? The Emperor can only go in one direction and I'd doubt he'd let the Primarchs go running about again. So where would you go first?

Farsight is a soldier and would honor a pact made.

Not really. Farsight is naturally aggressive, and without the Ethereals to guide him, he suffered a vision of the Mont'au (The Horror), but after he recovered, the Renegade became even more aggressive.

Farsight has experienced the horror of what the Imperium does to Xenos, and without an Ethereal to curb his impulses, would reciprocate without thinking.

KplKeegan wrote:

But the Emperor did not want to be worshipped. At all. I believe this is a solid character trait that would stick to Him if he ever rose again. He abhored faith, especially faith in him, which eventually lead Lorgar to worship the Chaos Gods.

So the Ecclesiarchy in its entirety would apall Him into either disbanding them, or more than likely putting them to the sword to maintain his ideology.

The Emperor isn't wasting ressoures, so he doesn't put them to his sword.
There is some use for them, frontline duties with "minimal" risk...

KplKeegan wrote:Never. He still has a serious bone to pick with the Emperor and should not be denied his chance to smack Him back onto the Golden Toilet.

Has he? some time passed. Maybe he grow fond of his new home? Of the nice and obedient guys of the mechanicum?

KplKeegan wrote:But for how long? The Emperor can only go in one direction and I'd doubt he'd let the Primarchs go running about again. So where would you go first?

Back in time. 2000AD, planet earth, UK. You know , that place.

AS a God-Emporer, close the webgate underneath, first. Close the warp rifts ,second.

KplKeegan wrote: Farsight is naturally aggressive, and without the Ethereals to guide him, he suffered a vision of the Mont'au (The Horror), but after he recovered, the Renegade became even more aggressive.

Farsight has experienced the horror of what the inhabitants of this Galaxy do to each other, and without an Ethereal to curb his impulses, would reciprocate without thinking.

You see him as a mentally disturbed one?
Oh great, he got the full Col kurtz treatment

Lets see a mighty psyker who can look like he want and a not so sane Tau commander....go for the senile necron overlord approach , I say.
One meeting and Farsight opts for the most beneficial way, as cut off of resupply as he is.

1hadhq wrote:One meeting and Farsight opts for the most beneficial way, as cut off of resupply as he is.

Probably, the Inquis-I mean the Grey Kni-Well, the Imperium might have some useful supplies and who knows, maybe some actual Tau technology.

I never said that the Tau, Tyranids, and Eldar were wiped out. Just that the Eldar and the Tau would be left on the brink of extinction. The main Hive Fleets would be destroyed, but a lot of Splinter Fleets would be left out there. This is better for GW actually, since Tyranid players can now have their own 'custom' Hive Fleets. And there are only 7 traitor Primarchs left. Horus was completely obliterated by the Emperor, and Curze allowed himself to be killed by a Callidus. And the Space Marines are more than capable of surviving on their own. The Chapters descended from each other would flock together, creating heavily-fortified, well-governed realms in the remains of the former Imperium. And the Eldar, Tau, Necrons, DO make alliances against common enemies. If the Imperium collapses, you think they're just going to stand aside and let the bad guys take over? As far as the Eldar are concerned, its better to have the Humans as a neighbor, no matter how unfriendly, than Orks or Chaos worshippers. Not to mention fighting the Tyranids on their own would greatly drain the Forces of Chaos, who still have to fight the Necrons once its over. And the Reborn Emperor might just make a lasting alliance with the Necrons. They both embody Order over Chaos, and the Emperor could offer them back whatever it was they lost to the C'tan, with his new mastery over the warp.