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Play him, when he makes you re-roll, say no.

And then just sit there untill he lets you. Better bring a second army and tell him you are going to start playing another game untill he's ready to act his age. If he starts throwing things, then the owner should step up because there is now a chance for damaged to his property.

Ignore his mother, if she tries to act on his behalf say "I'm sorry but I was talking to your 19 year old adult son, if you insist on treating him like a child then that leaves us no choice but to treat him the same way"

As it has been said here already, you are all adults, no one can make you do anything you don' want to. Act like an adult and don't let yourslef get bullied.

Also, please tell us what happens when you have tried out these ideas on dakka (this story has left me intrigued)

Also how many friends come to this store out of how many people attend the club every time you go?

If there is a lot of people who go, why doesn't he just go and annoy the other people?

If this guy bring his mother and he's 19, he's clearly not even worth your time.

Piston Honda wrote:

ÆΞØИ wrote:His mom can't force you guys to play with him.

No, he or she can't. But can annoy us until we do.

If you continuously give in, you are weak.

You need to treat him and his mother like you treat children - tell them no and stick to it.

If you give in then they'll continue their behaviour.

Simply tell the kid you don't like playing him and than don't play with him. Just don't try to speak for a group. Each person will have to tell him. Think... Forest Gump... seats taken.

This is rude advice, but I don't like rogue gamers that are out to ruin fun either.

Don't play him, period. No one can force you to play with anyone, and though they may be irritating, you can ignore them and tell them to bugger off. As other have said, be firm, and stick to your guns.

Granted, I'd probably go off on the kid and the mother, but I have zero patience for individuals like that.

What about having someone else there as a "referee"? Youd both have to agree to abide by the refs decisions before the game started and just refuse to play him if he wont agree to it.

Orbital Bombardlement until he phases out. It's the only way.

he's 19 and brings his mum with him......right......

the answer is simple, be a dick back and rules laywer the crap out of him ^_^

oh and I assume your his age/his age+ right? his mum has no power over you. just ignore her

It sounds to me like maybe the kid (adult?) has something wrong with him? A 19 year old bringing his mother must have some underlying reason? Maybe try speaking to the mother and asking if there is anything you need to know?

Don't play with him.

He'll get the hint, or not, but it'll save you a hassle. Be extremely direct, but not rude, with him and and his mother about why this is the case.

But please please let us know how it goes

I agree with the tactic of say no. You don't have to play with anyone you don't want to. Don't let a troll drive you away.

If he asks to play, say, "No, I do not want to play you. I won't play you."

You do not have to justify anything. If he pesters further, give the uncomfortable stare. Silence.

We have one of these as well. We call him "creepy guy". His mom drops him off (he's mid 20's or so) and leaves him all day. The guy in my situation doesn't play, doesn't paint, doesn't do anything hobby related. All he does is wander the store, harass the regulars, and step in to "help" shoppers.

You wouldn't believe how bad it is. I watched a couple weeks ago as he approached an 8-10 year old kid who was outside looking in the window. Kid's dad was a few feet away, kid had paused to look at the pretties. Creepy guy opened the door and said, "Hi little boy, come in and see what we do here," giving a long look with smirk on face. Kid's dad came right back, did pedo-alert kid-grab, and hurried off, obviously freaked out. I was expecting the police to show up.

I've tried refusal to engage, uncomfortable stare, and silence, when gaming or painting. This fool, however, continues to troll and pester. Finally I told him to leave me alone and mind his own business. Firm. Direct. No room for argument. He finally stormed off, flapping his arms like a 5 year old. But you know what? I don't care. I'm not there to babysit. Someone with the social graces of a 5 year old needs to not be dropped off in a store for strangers to mind. Especially when that social ineptitude scares off customers.

You have no obligation when someone is being a donkey-cave. Normal politeness will simply be used against you. But you have to be firm and leave no room for debate when politeness fails. You are not there to entertain socially inept trolls. Just do not engage or entertain the idiocy.

Seems to me that you have left it too long. I'm afraid to say that you got yourself into this situation by not standing your ground in the first instance.

As you have lost this encounter you are the one who has to find somewhere else to play.

If the store owner goes bust due to loosing your business then that's his own fault.

I want to hear moar stories of douchebags.

Worst I had was when I got to a tournament final and I instakilled a guys commander with the Nightbringer and he said he had Eternal Warrior, he didn't have his Dark Angels codex with him, so me being nice believed him... Until the last turn, the TO came over and asked why there was wound counters next to his commander, the guy got flustered and said "I thought he had Eternal Warrior"... Luckily it happened then as his commander was removed (not the terminator squad which would've been wiped out too) and I managed to just win the match and tournament on kill points.

He never came back in through embarrassment.

lord_blackfang wrote:

-Loki- wrote:Grow a pair.

Alternatively, maybe you should bring your own mom.

This is the best post in the thread.

I'll just skip the part where I tell you to man up because a few others have already done it. I'll chime in that if you do choose to send a "letter" rather than talking to the store owner face-to-face, don't make it passive-aggressive like your first letter or the one posted by Gunslingerpro. If he's enough of a problem to pass a note about, he's enough of a problem to name in the note and chronicle his behavior.

But again, the best behavior is to just ignore him no matter what.

happygolucky wrote:Also, please tell us what happens when you have tried out these ideas on dakka (this story has left me intrigued)

Also how many friends come to this store out of how many people attend the club every time you go?

If there is a lot of people who go, why doesn't he just go and annoy the other people?

As I have said, the whole don't play with him thing is tried every week. But it comes down to someone just saying all right, let's play a game, just to shut him up. He does it to other people. Like a civil war board game he was playing with our oldest member, the kid was playing as the south, as a simulation the south was at a disadvantage for naval power and war production. He insisted on altering the rules to make it equal to the union. He didn't get his way and dumped all his pieces all over the floor.

Being weak as an above poster said has nothing to do with it. Don't be a troll.

Gymnogyps wrote:
We have one of these as well. We call him "creepy guy".

Either this guy spends a good amount on product, or your store is run by the most inept person ever. Wow.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Piston Honda wrote:As I have said, the whole don't play with him thing is tried every week. But it comes down to someone just saying all right, let's play a game, just to shut him up.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results - Albert Einstein

Take a step back for a moment and look at the situation from outside. You're letting (essentially) a child dictate terms to you and your friends rather than just saying "no."

It sounds like your store owner is a moron for not recognizing it as a problem, but you're acting incredibly childish over the situation. It's not hard to either tell the kid "no" or find a different place to play.

Edit: We had a guy at our FLGS that was a very poor sportsman. He'd literally accuse you of cooking your dice if you rolled well. He had a bad attitude and was verbally abusive during matches. Watching fun games as a spectator, he'd pick apart your unit selections (which were obviously not optimized) and offer unsolicited advice in a dismissive manner. Everyone eventually stopped playing him. He got the message and we see him but maybe once every 3 months for about 10 minutes these days. As a game store patron, you're part of a community, and communities often police themselves.

You keep hearing the same advice over and over. Get your group together, discuss the situation and agree not to play him. No one likes playing him? DON'T! I don't understand why this is so difficult.

He is a 19 year old man, acting like an 8 year old, and you are all encouraging him. This is not his mother's fault, this is not the store owner's fault...it is your group's fault. Simple as that. All of you need to man up and DO NOT PLAY HIM.

If there is something they are doing to physically stop you from playing a game with people other than him...tell us. But the story you have shared with us so far is of a gaming club that doesn't have the guts to stand up to a kid.

Piston Honda wrote:

ÆΞØИ wrote:His mom can't force you guys to play with him.

No, he or she can't. But can annoy us until we do.

Still don't play with him, think, what is more annoying, that guy annoying you to play with him, or actually playing with him? I think actually playing with him would be more anoying...

Writing a letter is totally pathetic. Seriously, grow a pair and dont play with the kid. I dont see why people complain about things then do nothing about it. If someone annoys me, I wont play with them and we are both much happier for it. If he questions why, say "because i dont play with cheating douchebags". Dont lie, dont beat around the bush, tell him off and that will be that.

Again, agreeing with all the above posters, there is no reason you should be playing with this kid.

19 years old and still hanging around his mom?
Something is clearly very wrong.

Throwing tantrum and flinging pieces? After he threw all his civil war pieces on the floor, I can not see why you would ever EVER play another game, or even considering playing a game with him.

Think about how this kid would be dealt with in any other situation (where there's significantly less man-children around to be bullied..). Is there ANY other place where his behaviour would be tolerated?

How you and eleven other grown men (I assume?) are getting pushed around by a brat (who I honestly have trouble believing is 19) is absolutely mind-boggling.

-Loki- wrote:Grow a pair.

^..Yeah.

Don't send the letter.

If it is really bothering you that much, then play somewhere else. It strikes me the store owner is not that bothered about your business.

Piston Honda wrote:

-Loki- wrote:

Seriously? Grow a pair.

A bit cliche, no?

Don't play against him. If his mom tries to annoy you into it, ignore her. Just play against the people you know.

Another solution - someone make a table at home, and simply stop playing there. Making a table isn't hard at all, and you might start to enjoy not playing at the shop. After all, you won't be resricted by open hours.

It's really not that simple as you make it out to be. We ignore him. We address our frustrations over and over to him and his mother. The only way we can actually get any gaming done is if one of us serves as the sacrificial pacifier. As stated earlier, the new shop owner does not help with the situation, if anything it is encouraged.

We do have game tables at home, but we also enjoy going down to the shop once a week as an outing.

Well, just stop letting him.

We've tried every time. You can't continue the game until he get his way or he will throw things, generally just dice.

And about my letter? What sucks about it? Condescending?

From a store owner who tells us to play nicely when we brought the issue up, being polite about it was the idea a week ago. And the week before that. And the week before that. And all those weeks before that too.

People have given you plenty of options. You have shot them all down.

So, yes your right, there is no way to resolve this. Only thing to do is quit gaming and find a new hobby...

Sekminara wrote:How you and eleven other grown men (I assume?) are getting pushed around by a brat (who I honestly have trouble believing is 19) is absolutely mind-boggling.

This is a good point, actually.

OP - how old are you and your friends?

If they're all 14 or something then it makes a little more sense.

CT GAMER wrote:People have given you plenty of options. You have shot them all down.

So, yes your right, there is no way to resolve this. Only thing to do is quit gaming and find a new hobby...

Agreed. The story about him throwing his pieces to the ground in a historical board game should be reason enough to NEVER let him near anyone else's gaming supplies ever again. If he stops by during your game, just simply agree ahead of time that EVERYONE calmly but collectively tell him that you don't want to include him due to his past behavior. If he starts his usual whining, simply stop the game and have EVERYONE stare at him in silence for minutes on end until he leaves. If he really does have the short attention span and need for constant excitement that your posts (directed at OP, not CT) indicate, he will soon be too bored to continue sitting at the table. If he comes back later when you're playing again, repeat the stoppage and silent treatment. Eventually he'll be trained through non-violent yet still confrontational means. You may lose out on a single session of weekly gaming but it will be worth it in the end. If he starts to resort to violence or vandalism, threaten to call the police loudly enough so that the store owner will hear. He has no right to ruin any of your property regardless of any mental disabilities he may or may not have.

Talking about the guy behind his back at the store or griping on the internet (while at the same time discounting the same suggestion given over and over) does nothing to help you and just makes you guys look like a group of catty junior high girls. Stand up for yourself consisently and the problem will solve itself.

... There's always Plan C - C for Counter-Troll. Okay it's pretty lame to stoop down to said teen's level but hey - if you treated him as he's treating you, he might think twice or leave. Question his dicerolls, question his units and rules, pick on the tiny things. If it drives him mad then it's working - course if he starts throwing things about make sure they're not yours.

Okay it's not the best advice to give really and the others are right but since you've pretty much dismissed them, there's always Plan C

CT GAMER wrote:

People have given you plenty of options. You have shot them all down.

As I have said, they have been tried already. Silent treatment did work. Refusing didn't work. Not letting him play worked until he started moving terrain around and out models.

I asked the store owner if he had any learning disabilities (it was not apparent there was) The new owner said no. Either the owner is keeping the issue private (i have no issue with that) or the kid has anger and attention issues.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Juvieus Kaine wrote:... There's always Plan C - C for Counter-Troll. Okay it's pretty lame to stoop down to said teen's level but hey - if you treated him as he's treating you, he might think twice or leave. Question his dicerolls, question his units and rules, pick on the tiny things. If it drives him mad then it's working - course if he starts throwing things about make sure they're not yours.

Okay it's not the best advice to give really and the others are right but since you've pretty much dismissed them, there's always Plan C

LOL.

Are you sure your battleship really moved 7"


here is a micrometer, I want to make sure he did not move a fraction over 7"




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Juvieus Kaine wrote:... There's always Plan C - C for Counter-Troll. Okay it's pretty lame to stoop down to said teen's level but hey - if you treated him as he's treating you, he might think twice or leave. Question his dicerolls, question his units and rules, pick on the tiny things. If it drives him mad then it's working - course if he starts throwing things about make sure they're not yours.

Okay it's not the best advice to give really and the others are right but since you've pretty much dismissed them, there's always Plan C

LOL.

Are you sure your battleship really moved 7"


here is a micrometer, I want to make sure he did not move a fraction over 7"

Piston Honda wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:

Juvieus Kaine wrote:... There's always Plan C - C for Counter-Troll. Okay it's pretty lame to stoop down to said teen's level but hey - if you treated him as he's treating you, he might think twice or leave. Question his dicerolls, question his units and rules, pick on the tiny things. If it drives him mad then it's working - course if he starts throwing things about make sure they're not yours.

Okay it's not the best advice to give really and the others are right but since you've pretty much dismissed them, there's always Plan C

LOL.

Are you sure your battleship really moved 7"

here is a micrometer, I want to make sure he did not move a fraction over 7"

You laugh but that's pretty much what I mean. You call him out on all the things he'd normally call you or your friends out on. I know you mentioned "wonky" dicerolls, so do the same to him. Any of those particular rolls he does, you call him out and get your friends behind you to do it. THe entire table vs one guy and his mother would work more in your favour and if he's smart enough he'll cotton on that what he's doing is what he's recieving. How you go about this is your call - subtely and he'll gain major frustration in the long run, or directly in the next game and he'll get very mad very fast.