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GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

Ovion wrote:It's not a Close Combat, it's a close support - lots of short range, high powered shots.

No need to be a troll

I'm not trolling. Close Combat is hand-to-hand combat. The XV9 is for fast, short range firepower, which is pretty much every other Tau unit.
I'd like a couple of XV9s, they look cool, but they're all equivalent to Shadowsun in range.

lol so I guess it's not worth buying a couple and the commander unit? Can he even be an HQ? Sorry to ask so many stupid questions but I've never used anything from forgeworld.

Generally outside of tournaments, using a Forgeworld model to represent a 40K unit is fine, so long as it looks right and isn't too much bigger / smaller.

In tournaments it's up to the TO.

That said, XV9s appear to be on dread sized bases, so you'd be hard-pressed fitting them on a 40mm base.

But in a friendly game, simply clearing it with your opponent is required if it's anything too outside the norm.

Ultimately, it's probably not worth getting any XV9s for regular games.
That said, getting their Broadsides is worth it, if you're OK with it costing more and not coming with the extra bits, they do look a LOT nicer.

hmmm, and the kroot riders are out then too I suppose. Least I found all this out before I started getting ready hard into it. I need to find a drill and the magnets. I think that may be my project for the day though I have no idea where to start looking. But I guess it's just that starting to look =)
Though I have to say I've been watching batreps almost constantly and I haven't seen tau win to terribley many games. It's not stopping me from playing them I just have to spend a lot more time figuring out my list and tactics. I know that deep strikers and any kind of bulky unit is the worst thing imaginable =[
and the XV9's being on bigger bases does matter? Are they carrying different weaponry? I haven't seen them carry anything other than weapons a normal xv8 would carry they just seem..more detailed and a crap ton cooler! =D

Ovion wrote:

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

Ovion wrote:It's not a Close Combat, it's a close support - lots of short range, high powered shots.

No need to be a troll

I'm not trolling. Close Combat is hand-to-hand combat. The XV9 is for fast, short range firepower, which is pretty much every other Tau unit.
I'd like a couple of XV9s, they look cool, but they're all equivalent to Shadowsun in range.

We don't have any close combat suits though, so why say this??

I have 3 Phased Ion Gun XV9's they are on 40mm

Cotton do you feel like they're worth sticking in the army? I was looking at the close up suits as a way to kind of deter guys bumrushing my suits. But I'm not totally sure about them I keep seeing that forgeworld items have different rules and I wanted the shield suit as my HQ but I'm not sure how that works =[


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Also, if the forgeworld are bigger than the normal suits could I use a commander suit as a body guard and the xv9's as the hq's?

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

Ovion wrote:

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

Ovion wrote:It's not a Close Combat, it's a close support - lots of short range, high powered shots.

No need to be a troll

I'm not trolling. Close Combat is hand-to-hand combat. The XV9 is for fast, short range firepower, which is pretty much every other Tau unit.
I'd like a couple of XV9s, they look cool, but they're all equivalent to Shadowsun in range.

We don't have any close combat suits though, so why say this??

Gharron wrote:Had one last question, I saw on forgeworld that they make a close combat suit. Is that worth a look? I know tau are supposed to be all about the range and yada but would they help with deek strikers?

I was answering that.

Anyway - if they're on 40mm bases then go for it. I mean you can go for it regardless it's just a matter of fitting it on the 40mm base either way.

How awkward is that going to look on a 40 mm base?

Ok my advice for OP.

Avoid:
Vespids - There guns are very good low ap killers for Space marines (low range) but they are very fragile with their 5+ saves.
Ethereals - Don't waste your money on these useless guys.
Farsight - Limits you on your units and not allowed to take Kroot
Shaddowsun - Too expensive for what you get (you don't get much)

Must haves:
XV8 crisis battlesuits: Very important that you have at least 6. They are very effective and can jump in and out cover.
Many gun configurations for the battle suits, the most common is plasma rifle and missile pod, because it is an all rounder. I use plasma and burst cannon (for hordes and space marines), and others that are fusion plasma (For Terminators and powerful units)

Broadsides: Whatever they look at they destroy. Two or three do the trick, people say more but you don't need them, once all of the vehicles/monstrous creatures are dead, they have nothing that is worth shooting out.

Kroot: Used to protect broadsides and to create cover saves.

Hammerhead: 1-2 will do the trick. Always take a rail-gun, it gives you the choice to use a solid shot or a very good large blast.

Pathfinders: Their marker lights are weapons of destruction, they can raise ballistic skill and reduce cover saves. They have to take a devilfish but you can get some fire warriors to highjack it. Use the marker lights to support battlesuits or broadsides.

Fire warriors: Either squads of 6 or squads of 12, you don't want anything else. Fire warriors are fragile, but can deal a good amount of damage with their S5 guns. (BTW get pulse rifles rather than carbines, the rapid fire is better)

As for Stealth suits, I have found they are very fragile, they only have one wound and they have close range guns, contradicting their stealth field generators. For 30 pts each they are not really worth it...

For HQ, you just want a regular battlesuit commander, don't upgrade him for the extra ballistic skill and wound, because, you can get an upgrade for ballistic skill, and he will probably be killed by ID anyway. (Don't take bodyguards)

Hope that helps

Gharron wrote:Cotton do you feel like they're worth sticking in the army? I was looking at the close up suits as a way to kind of deter guys bumrushing my suits. But I'm not totally sure about them I keep seeing that forgeworld items have different rules and I wanted the shield suit as my HQ but I'm not sure how that works =[


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Also, if the forgeworld are bigger than the normal suits could I use a commander suit as a body guard and the xv9's as the hq's?

They use regular suit bases, the 40mm so that's totally fine. Here's the issues:

#1 They're pricey.. not just dollars... points. Their drone controllers aren't free + cost of drones, so suddenly shield Generators become decent options. While they're good, they're going to eat up a decent chunk of your points. 3 XV-9's /w Phased Ion Guns & Shield Generators is going to run you 360 points! If you're looking for something to deter close combat... A full blown Kroot Bomb (20 Carnivores /w 12 Hounds) is only 212p. That Kroot Bomb can infiltrate, outflank, gets bonuses to cover saves while in natural terrain, and on the charge gets 36 attacks at I5 and 60 attacks at I3. Not too shabby. Additionally, that kroot bomb is going to cover a lot more ground, which means a lot more coverage for infantry over infantry cover saves vs. shooting for your suits. Just something to think about.

#2 They're Imperial Armour rules. These rules are not accepted at tournaments, and require specific permission from your opponent before each game. Are XV9's overpowered by any means? No. Should the opponent say no? Probably not. But some will, because any time you mention Forge World models, people immediately assume its overpowered/cheesy.

Ugh, then I guess I'll skip them. I was just going to use the model as a normal commander then I love the look of them I just didn't know how legal they were =[
How many kroot and fire warriors do you feel is necessary I have 2 broadsides and 4 suits how many more do you think I need? I have 1 devilfish and 2 piranhas I know I need more devilfish but I'm not sure how many

Before you go out buying too much, play anywhere between 3-7 practice games. Proxy models with pieces of cut-out cardboard. You'll get a feel for what you like and what you don't like. The biggest thing is, you don't want to go off spending hundreds of dollars on models that you'll never paint, let alone use. And look to play smaller games for a while. There's no need to jump up above 1500 for a few months.

In general though, 18 FW are more than enough unless you're going specifically for a infantry gunline build, and as for kroot, you can never really have too many. I would start with 2 boxes worth.

With 18x FW, 20x Kroot, 2x XV88, 4x XV8, a 'fish, and a couple piranha, you should have a fair 1000p army to play with. Experiment with it, add a couple cardboard proxies, see how you like them, then go from there.

I've got more than what you listed atm and I've been slowly buying more =) I want a 2k point army EASY at this stage =) I just don't know what I need to buy next.

Gharron wrote:I've got more than what you listed atm and I've been slowly buying more =) I want a 2k point army EASY at this stage =) I just don't know what I need to buy next.

Why do you want a 2000p army so quickly? Bigger is not necessarily better. And if you get to a a point with your Tau army, then suddenly realise you're tired of painted the same models over and over, are you going to switch to another army again?

What do you have to work with right now? And are your models painted?

The simplest thing then would be to buy 1-2 more battleforces. This would give you another 2 Devilfish, 2 more crisis suits, another 24 firewarriors, 24 kroot and 6 stealth suits.

But yeah - what models do you actually have right now?

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

Ovion wrote:

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

Ovion wrote:It's not a Close Combat, it's a close support - lots of short range, high powered shots.

No need to be a troll

I'm not trolling. Close Combat is hand-to-hand combat. The XV9 is for fast, short range firepower, which is pretty much every other Tau unit.
I'd like a couple of XV9s, they look cool, but they're all equivalent to Shadowsun in range.

We don't have any close combat suits though, so why say this??

Because close combat is melee
close support is assault / melta range

And you guys do have close combat suit and options, people just dont bother because its so useless

How do you handle the deep strikers? Or is that just the bane of the tau if you don't roll high enough you lose?

Gharron wrote:How do you handle the deep strikers? Or is that just the bane of the tau if you don't roll high enough you lose?

It depends on how many points you're playing, and in turn, how many deepstrikers are dropping into your lines.

Generally, deepstrikers are trouble. They force you to deal with them, preventing you from dealing with larger long-term threats.
My best advice would be to light them up with pathfinders, stuff a piranha in between them and your closest unit and rapid-fire them into oblivion.

If you're going up against a mass of deepstriking troops (say DoA Blood Angels, or DP Salamanders), your going to have one hell of a time. The only thing you can really try to do is shift away from the majority of the harder troops, towards the softer ones (that you can take out in one round of shooting), use your expendable vehicles as roadblocks and move/blast a path away from them. (This is generally a Mont'ka style of play)

Your deployment will really determine how badly you'll get screwed by deepstrikers. Using Kau'yon tactics you can deploy dual firebases to force an enemy to split his forces. Take out the troops that landed near one of the two firebases, and sacrifice one side of the map (and the troops holding it down) to force the enemy to slog across the long side of the map.

It's pretty simple, imo, to handle deepstrikers. Spread out! Put your valuable targets in seperate areas, and mix them in with eachother, that way they can't just send the tank busting unit after your Hammerhead, and they can't just send their terminator busters after your Broadsides.

Its a bad matchup, but its not undoable.

hmm, I just got my first crisis suit today so I'm going to start working on him in just a minute =) I need to find a way to buy the magents and whatever kind of drill I need I looked on google and came up with zilch.
I have 2 broadsides and 1 hammerhead I have 20 kroot 20 firewarriors 2 piranha 1 comander suit 3 normal suits 1 devilfish and I think 3 stealth suits to answer those who have been wondering about the units I have. I dunno what that gives me points wise but I know I need more suits and broadsides =[ just dunno how many of what and where I need.
Also, do the kroot riders fit in anywhere in the game or are they under imperial armor as well? Could I "proxy" an XV9 as a normal suit or even a commander suit?

Just for reference dude, I run my 2000p Tau something like this:

HQ
Commander Shas'El /w Plasma Rifle, Burst Cannon, Targeting Array, HW Multitracker, HW Drone Controller + 2x Shield Drones @123p

Elites
3x Crisis Suits /w Burst Cannon, Plasma Rifle, Multitracker @174p
3x Crisis Suits /w TL Missile Pod, Flamer @141p
3x Crisis Suits /w TL Missile Pod, Flamer @141p

Fast Attack
4x Pathfinders /w Markerlights + Pathfinder Devilfish /w Disruption Pod @133p
4x Pathfinders /w Markerlights + Pathfinder Devilfish /w Disruption Pod @133p

Troops
6x Fire Warriors @60p
6x Fire Warriors @60p
10x Kroot Carnivores @70p
10x Kroot Carnivores + 6x Kroot Hounds @106p

Heavy Support
1x Broadside Team Leader /w Targeting Array, Bonding Knife, HW Drone Controller, HW Target Lock +2x Shield drones & 2x Broadsides /w Targeting Arrays @285p
1x Broadside Team Leader /w Targeting Array, Bonding Knife, HW Drone Controller, HW Target Lock +2x Shield drones & 2x Broadsides /w Targeting Arrays @285p
1x Broadside Team Leader /w Targeting Array, Bonding Knife, HW Drone Controller, HW Target Lock +2x Shield drones & 2x Broadsides /w Targeting Arrays @285p

In the end you get 9 broadsides, that can spread their fire at up to 6 targets, all BS4. You get Markerlight support from your pathfinders, and your fire warriors get a ride from their mandatory devilfish. The kroot provide a speedbump against assaults & outflanking/infiltrating towards objectives. 2 squads of Deathrains bring auto cannon goodness, and the Shas'El rolls with the 3x Bladestorm suits. It makes for a fun list.

are stealth suits worth taking?


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are stealth suits worth taking?


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Sigh, sorry about the double post thegf's computer isn't playing nice atm.

Very nice list Cotton, and @ Gharron - i have never thought stealth suits are all that worth it but they can be good tank busters. better off filling the slot with crisis suits imo. And I would stick to 1500 pts for now.

ATO

Do you think a hammerhead is a decent pick?
I've been looking all around I need 7 more broadsides 8 path finders and like...6 more suits or so. I'm not sure how to get a shield off one of the suits I bought and I think another has to have a bit removed so I'm just gonna have slowly buy into this I need to get more drones too.


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Also, does a commander do well with a body guard or is that a waste of points?

Gharron wrote:Do you think a hammerhead is a decent pick?
I've been looking all around I need 7 more broadsides 8 path finders and like...6 more suits or so. I'm not sure how to get a shield off one of the suits I bought and I think another has to have a bit removed so I'm just gonna have slowly buy into this I need to get more drones too.

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Also, does a commander do well with a body guard or is that a waste of points?

Yes the hammerhead is top tier, but the difficulty with the Tau army is correctly allocating your elites and heavy support.
Even the Ion-head and the Sky-Ray have their uses in competitive play (I use them quite often if I have the opportunity to tailor my list), but given the current metagame, Broadsides are almost a +1, but that doesn't mean you should spam them. They are quite immobile even with A.S.S. They hate tar-pits.

Bodyguards: should only be taken when you have no Elite slots left. Which pretty much won't happen until 2000pt+ depending on your play-style.

Gharron wrote:are stealth suits worth taking?

Unfortunately no. They look cool and they aren't exactly useless (like many other Tau units), but they cost too much for their functionality and take up a precious Elite slot from your XV8s.
On the subject of XV8s, the only configurations worth taking (in any not tailor scenario) would be the 'Fireknife' (Plasma-MissilePod-Multitracker) or the 'Deathrain' (TL MissilePod-Targeting Array/Flamer). I know I'm gonna get some hate for that, but it's true unless you have a great mastery over certain niche builds.

I'm just having trouble finding everythind need for the list with what I have atm,I have 2 pirahna but they seem useless =[
With the bits how do you show a multi tracker and a markerlight? I have 5 suits on the way and I'm going to have to figure out how to get bits off to make these units and possibley magnetize the arms if it's possible to get them off without breaking them.
What's the best way to use the broadsides if you take 9 like cotton did? Should you just stick them in a corner alone and move the rest of the army out?
I read everyone saying that tau are getting an update will I be able to use these models when that update comes? Do you guys think that I'll use all of the models I have atm?

Actually Pirahna are quite useful as roadblocks and Assault deterrents, many Tau players have had great success with them. Some players on other forums have won tournaments with them. Not really my style of play so I can't really give too much tactical advice in regards to them, but I can tell you that they usually come in twos (equipped with fusion, flechettes and disruption pods). Do some research if you're interested.

Multi-tracker is the weird bulbous antenna looking thing that comes with the suits. Markerlights come stock standard on the two models that should be using them (Pathfinder carbines and the laterals of the Skyray 'wing' mount).

If you were to spam Broadsides like cotton did (which I would discourage for a Tau beginner) you would place them in opportune positions to cover the whole field. Basically cover all blind spots and put pressure on vital terrain gaps where vehicles would pass.

What would you suggest instead of 9 broadsides? I have 1 hammerhead and 2 broadsides and 2 pirahna but I'm not sure how many more of each I need.


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Also, what would you do to make cotton's list more noob friendly?

Gharron wrote:hmm, I just got my first crisis suit today so I'm going to start working on him in just a minute =) I need to find a way to buy the magents and whatever kind of drill I need I looked on google and came up with zilch.
I have 2 broadsides and 1 hammerhead I have 20 kroot 20 firewarriors 2 piranha 1 comander suit 3 normal suits 1 devilfish and I think 3 stealth suits to answer those who have been wondering about the units I have. I dunno what that gives me points wise but I know I need more suits and broadsides =[ just dunno how many of what and where I need.
Also, do the kroot riders fit in anywhere in the game or are they under imperial armor as well? Could I "proxy" an XV9 as a normal suit or even a commander suit?

Yes, you could probably use the XV9 as a commander, just be aware it'll be harder to get him in cover is all.

I see you have:
4 Crisis Suits
20 Fire Warriors
20 Kroot
2 Pirahna
1 Devilfish
1 Hammerhead
2 Broadsides

Getting 2 battleforces and a Skyray kit (converting some of the fire warriors into pathfinders) would bring this up to:
6 Crisis Suits
24 Fire Warriors
48 Kroot
2 Pirahna
18 Pathfinders
3 Devilfish
2 Hammerhead
2 Broadsides

Gharron wrote:are stealth suits worth taking?

Yes and no. They're not bad, but they're very expensive for what they do.
In an Apoc game they're fairly great I think. Infiltrate a squad of Stealth Suits with 2 drones each, for a squad of 3 suits / 6 drones or 6 suits / 12 drones.
And they just sit there, a lot of the time being out of range, if not having lots of wound allocation and whatnot, with lots of ablative wounds. They're invaribly ignored and take up all available space where the objective is, holding it through the game.

Gharron wrote:What would you suggest instead of 9 broadsides? I have 1 hammerhead and 2 broadsides and 2 pirahna but I'm not sure how many more of each I need.

Either 2 Hammerheads and 2-3 Broadsides, or 1 Hammerhead and 4-6 Broadsides. I'd personally lean towards the 2 and 3.


Also - as to the magnets, the GW pin drill is surprisingly enough one of the best and cheapest you can get as it's a .3mm to 3.something mm drill, that comes with 6 1mm drill bits.
I'll find one of the magnet supply sites I use later - but I'd reccomend simply pinning them in. For my crisis suits I've used two drill holes, then the weapons have 2 pins on each and 'clip in'.

Also - infintely easier than magnetising is pinning the railgin and ion cannon turrets. I'll put up pictures later on today.