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TheWildHost wrote:

TheLionOfTheForest wrote:

TheWildHost wrote:I am guilty of swiping a dice or two without my opponent looking, but when I catch him (Unless it is a lot of dice) I let it fly, I mean, who does it hurt?

Swiping as in stealing the actual dice ? or "yeah i rolled four 5s" when you really rolled four 1's.
.

No. Like sliding a die or two into the wounds pile. Like I said I have not done this in quite a while.

ಠ_ಠ

Kaldor wrote:

TheWildHost wrote:

TheLionOfTheForest wrote:

TheWildHost wrote:I am guilty of swiping a dice or two without my opponent looking, but when I catch him (Unless it is a lot of dice) I let it fly, I mean, who does it hurt?

Swiping as in stealing the actual dice ? or "yeah i rolled four 5s" when you really rolled four 1's.
.

No. Like sliding a die or two into the wounds pile. Like I said I have not done this in quite a while.

ಠ_ಠ

Quit making me feel evil...

We have a, let's say non-neurotypical kid who comes in to play every now and then. Yesterday, he asked "If someone gets a 'weapon destroyed' on my vehicle, do I have to tell him about all the weapons on my vehicle?"

The answer was several or us in chorus: "YES"

Dazuni wrote:

Locclo wrote:
....
He argued that since they all went at the same time, he could allocate them around, so that all the power wounds only killed 3 guys.
...

I thought that was legit as of 5th ed, say your nobz made 5 power weapon and 10 non-power weapon attacks onto 5 men meq; and that you nobz are all same initative; the meq player should be allowed to allocate the wounds; say in our example total 15 wounds are scored, the meq player have to allocated 3 wounds each, the nature of the wound will not matter as of 5th ed (i.e. mix of power-non-power weapons or just power weapon wounds) the five worse wound can go to 2 guys and the rest can go onto the rest of the guys (i.e. meq squad member A get 3 power weapon wounds (dead), member B get 2 power weapon and 1 non power weapon wounds (dead) and the rest of the 9 non-power weapon wounds go onto the other 3 guys (3 armour save + FNP each) ).

as of current rule the only way to get around this is either to equip all nobz with the same gear, or have power weapon (FIST) initiative different from the rest of the group.

I ran into the same problem once in FLGS I was running blood angels 2 assult squad, seg with power weapons charge into dark angel termis, since all weapon go at the same time, and the non power weapon to power weapon wound ratio was very big, the power weapon wounds can be allocate onto just one guy...

I hope 6th will fix this.

edit: this also assume the MEQ squad members are identical.

You have this completely wrong. You assign wounds model by model, but you roll identical models as a group and they all pass and fail together - so if there were 5 identical guys then they'd all die if there were 5 power weapon wounds. If one was different then it would be possible to save him in the manner you described because his wounds are a different 'group' and rolled for separately. It's very easy to do this with Deathwing Terminators which is what I assume happened to you.

Corrode wrote:

Dazuni wrote:

Locclo wrote:
....
He argued that since they all went at the same time, he could allocate them around, so that all the power wounds only killed 3 guys.
...

I thought that was legit as of 5th ed, say your nobz made 5 power weapon and 10 non-power weapon attacks onto 5 men meq; and that you nobz are all same initative; the meq player should be allowed to allocate the wounds; say in our example total 15 wounds are scored, the meq player have to allocated 3 wounds each, the nature of the wound will not matter as of 5th ed (i.e. mix of power-non-power weapons or just power weapon wounds) the five worse wound can go to 2 guys and the rest can go onto the rest of the guys (i.e. meq squad member A get 3 power weapon wounds (dead), member B get 2 power weapon and 1 non power weapon wounds (dead) and the rest of the 9 non-power weapon wounds go onto the other 3 guys (3 armour save + FNP each) ).

as of current rule the only way to get around this is either to equip all nobz with the same gear, or have power weapon (FIST) initiative different from the rest of the group.

I ran into the same problem once in FLGS I was running blood angels 2 assult squad, seg with power weapons charge into dark angel termis, since all weapon go at the same time, and the non power weapon to power weapon wound ratio was very big, the power weapon wounds can be allocate onto just one guy...

I hope 6th will fix this.

edit: this also assume the MEQ squad members are identical.

You have this completely wrong. You assign wounds model by model, but you roll identical models as a group and they all pass and fail together - so if there were 5 identical guys then they'd all die if there were 5 power weapon wounds. If one was different then it would be possible to save him in the manner you described because his wounds are a different 'group' and rolled for separately. It's very easy to do this with Deathwing Terminators which is what I assume happened to you.

As a frequent abuser of this rule yeah its broke.

But the biggest dickery i've seen is when you play one of our stores Power Gamers. Its just general rules lawyering though. The one thing that some people pull is rolling dice without being specific what is going on.

captain collius wrote:

Corrode wrote:

Dazuni wrote:

Locclo wrote:
....
He argued that since they all went at the same time, he could allocate them around, so that all the power wounds only killed 3 guys.
...

I thought that was legit as of 5th ed, say your nobz made 5 power weapon and 10 non-power weapon attacks onto 5 men meq; and that you nobz are all same initative; the meq player should be allowed to allocate the wounds; say in our example total 15 wounds are scored, the meq player have to allocated 3 wounds each, the nature of the wound will not matter as of 5th ed (i.e. mix of power-non-power weapons or just power weapon wounds) the five worse wound can go to 2 guys and the rest can go onto the rest of the guys (i.e. meq squad member A get 3 power weapon wounds (dead), member B get 2 power weapon and 1 non power weapon wounds (dead) and the rest of the 9 non-power weapon wounds go onto the other 3 guys (3 armour save + FNP each) ).

as of current rule the only way to get around this is either to equip all nobz with the same gear, or have power weapon (FIST) initiative different from the rest of the group.

I ran into the same problem once in FLGS I was running blood angels 2 assult squad, seg with power weapons charge into dark angel termis, since all weapon go at the same time, and the non power weapon to power weapon wound ratio was very big, the power weapon wounds can be allocate onto just one guy...

I hope 6th will fix this.

edit: this also assume the MEQ squad members are identical.

You have this completely wrong. You assign wounds model by model, but you roll identical models as a group and they all pass and fail together - so if there were 5 identical guys then they'd all die if there were 5 power weapon wounds. If one was different then it would be possible to save him in the manner you described because his wounds are a different 'group' and rolled for separately. It's very easy to do this with Deathwing Terminators which is what I assume happened to you.

As a frequent abuser of this rule yeah its broke.

But the biggest dickery i've seen is when you play one of our stores Power Gamers. Its just general rules lawyering though. The one thing that some people pull is rolling dice without being specific what is going on.

Dude I HATE random rolling dice. I despise it. Doesnt make sense. Just handfuls of random dice then, oh 1 wound.

Lol this guy hit me with a dreadnought in close combat after saying just 1. So i rolled the save for the flayed one and he flipped out lol. You know, because the dreadnoughts weapon is a power weapon?

Communicate, sheesh.

Corrode wrote:You have this completely wrong. You assign wounds model by model, but you roll identical models as a group and they all pass and fail together - so if there were 5 identical guys then they'd all die if there were 5 power weapon wounds. If one was different then it would be possible to save him in the manner you described because his wounds are a different 'group' and rolled for separately. It's very easy to do this with Deathwing Terminators which is what I assume happened to you.

Actually no, I'm pretty sure he had it right. I'm away from my book at the moment (it's in the next room and I don't care enough to go and get it) but as I remember, all wounds are allocated at the same time, and rolled at the same time, but there is no stipulation that they need to be allocated evenly. All AP2 shots, for example, can be allocated on a single model. Or Power Weapon attacks, in this scenario.

Kaldor wrote:

Corrode wrote:You have this completely wrong. You assign wounds model by model, but you roll identical models as a group and they all pass and fail together - so if there were 5 identical guys then they'd all die if there were 5 power weapon wounds. If one was different then it would be possible to save him in the manner you described because his wounds are a different 'group' and rolled for separately. It's very easy to do this with Deathwing Terminators which is what I assume happened to you.

Actually no, I'm pretty sure he had it right. I'm away from my book at the moment (it's in the next room and I don't care enough to go and get it) but as I remember, all wounds are allocated at the same time, and rolled at the same time, but there is no stipulation that they need to be allocated evenly. All AP2 shots, for example, can be allocated on a single model. Or Power Weapon attacks, in this scenario.

Please go and re-read the rules and make sure that you actually understand them next time. It's ok. I'll wait.

They have to be allocated evenly, however depending on the loadout of the squad this can still allow all the power attacks to be distributed to one or two models saving a majority of the squad.

Corrode wrote:Please go and re-read the rules and make sure that you actually understand them next time. It's ok. I'll wait.

Just did, and I'm right. No stipulation that wounds be spread evenly according to type. If I take 8 wounds, two from power weapons, on a squad of four identical models, I can put the two power weapon wounds on a single guy.

Corrode wrote:

Kaldor wrote:

Corrode wrote:You have this completely wrong. You assign wounds model by model, but you roll identical models as a group and they all pass and fail together - so if there were 5 identical guys then they'd all die if there were 5 power weapon wounds. If one was different then it would be possible to save him in the manner you described because his wounds are a different 'group' and rolled for separately. It's very easy to do this with Deathwing Terminators which is what I assume happened to you.

Actually no, I'm pretty sure he had it right. I'm away from my book at the moment (it's in the next room and I don't care enough to go and get it) but as I remember, all wounds are allocated at the same time, and rolled at the same time, but there is no stipulation that they need to be allocated evenly. All AP2 shots, for example, can be allocated on a single model. Or Power Weapon attacks, in this scenario.

Please go and re-read the rules and make sure that you actually understand them next time. It's ok. I'll wait.

Actually that is how it works..It's why 5th edition has the worst wound rules out of all the editions.

I mean really, it punishes the attacker for having more attacks.

And then all wounds are consolidated onto groups of identical models and two of them will die. Seriously, this has been the same way for 4 years, are you new or something? It's ok if you are.

e: Jesus Christ, read 'Remove Casualties' (p.24) and 'Taking Saving Throws' for complex units (p.25)

Ive seen and experienced all sorts of blatant cheating and people rage quitting games from me during tournaments.

This weekend at a tournament I had an orc player move 10" and I had to correct him. He then tried shooting Combi Rockets twice, Rolled more dice than needed, and Rolled like 10 extra dice for something. He told me his boys had str5 shooting and all this other crap.

Next game against a space marine player he tried telling me that his tactical marines had grenades that took away my assault bonus, I laughed my ass off and told him of he lied again id tell the TO and have him kicked out.

Basically in 40k, Unless I know my opponent or here good things about them, I assume there a dirty stinking cheater and check everything they do.

Kaldor wrote:

Corrode wrote:Please go and re-read the rules and make sure that you actually understand them next time. It's ok. I'll wait.

Just did, and I'm right. No stipulation that wounds be spread evenly according to type. If I take 8 wounds, two from power weapons, on a squad of four identical models, I can put the two power weapon wounds on a single guy.

Wow, no. 5 power weapon wounds and 10 savable wounds to 5 identical 1 wound models without an invuln = 5 dead models. This is why people get so ticked about diverse Paladins and wound allocation. They CAN do what you're talking about, while 5 purifiers can't. Fundamentals folks.

Heres some good Richardy that i just encountered in my last game, with the opponent telling me i have no common sense and quitting after i moved my "immobilised" CCB.

Anyway, before the game starts we discuss the terrain, and label it. Anything else is considered clear terrain, or at least to my understanding.
He has CSM, i have Necrons.

Turn 3, he brings a landraider from reserves and sets it up on a "road" which looks like 2 muddy tracks going from top to bottom.
Movement, he says he gets to move an extra 6 because of being on the road and i disagree, saying that we didnt talk about it beforehand.
He cites page 57 in which i respond "Oh, you mean roads, which is after the part about discussing the effects of terrain on vehicles before the game starts?"
He gets pissed says i have no common sense, says Im only refusing to let him do it because I have skimmers and it doesnt effect me.
I reply with well, fine. Its a road, but its muddy, so you subtract d6" (lol)
Honestly, if at the start of the game he said Hey, these bunkers? They give +2 cover saves to CSM and they arnt dt to move into for CSM only, id have been cool with it.
What i hate is finding out something new about terrain in the middle of the game that just so HAPPENS to be in the opponents favor, like, Oh, that middle building is blos for you, but i can see through it.

Do you feel i was wrong in this?

I mean, him ragequitting at the end and then telling me i need to learn the rules (Although he insisted my EL guys couldnt get up from instadeath, because thats what the last edition of the necron codex said) kinda showed him to be a douche anyway.

Yeah, all terrain needs to be identified and discussed before deployment. Page 88 makes this pretty clear, as does 13 and 77 in the BRB (and 57, as you pointed out, clearly requires input from both players).

Not wrong, in fact, very right.

Smitty0305 wrote:Next game against a space marine player he tried telling me that his tactical marines had grenades that took away my assault bonus, I laughed my ass off and told him of he lied again id tell the TO and have him kicked out.

You mean defensive grenades?

One of my first times playing 40k with my IG, I was playing a SM player. He has told me that Imperial guardsmen and there officers don't get any armor saves at all unless I pay for them.
Which is pretty much true, but I remember him killing most of my units in assault....with out power weapons. But hay I play IG, I only know about cover saves not armor.

Lobukia wrote:
Wow, no. 5 power weapon wounds and 10 savable wounds to 5 identical 1 wound models without an invuln = 5 dead models. This is why people get so ticked about diverse Paladins and wound allocation. They CAN do what you're talking about, while 5 purifiers can't. Fundamentals folks.

indeed you are correct, following the example from my previous post, the thing that I missed was that wound allocation can be done if and only if the wound recieving unit consists of game-term-different models(complex unit).

also another thing that I missed is that while the unit might consist of game-term-different models, but for the game-term-identical models they must roll their save as a pool. i.e. if 10 wounds is allocated to 5 identical guys; the 10 wounds have to be rolled all together; if it yield 4 failed armour save then 4 guys dies.

so if you have mutl-loadout models in the same unit (death company, BA VV, Honour guard), 5th ed penalise large number of same initialive, (power weapon-non power weapon) mixed attacks.

as an attacker, to avoid gettting into this issue at all, allocate power weapons and non power weapons to different Initiative models is the way to go.

rigeld2 wrote:

Smitty0305 wrote:Next game against a space marine player he tried telling me that his tactical marines had grenades that took away my assault bonus, I laughed my ass off and told him of he lied again id tell the TO and have him kicked out.

You mean defensive grenades?

Which Space Marines don't have?

BlapBlapBlap wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Smitty0305 wrote:Next game against a space marine player he tried telling me that his tactical marines had grenades that took away my assault bonus, I laughed my ass off and told him of he lied again id tell the TO and have him kicked out.

You mean defensive grenades?

Which Space Marines don't have?

I think when people see frag and krak grenades they assume that means both offensive and defensive grenades, when in fact it's just offensive grenades (frag) and krak are only good for armor penning vehicles, iirc. I don't have my rulebook on me (275 miles away) and I mainly play orcs, so don't pay too much attention to it, really.

greenbay924 wrote:

BlapBlapBlap wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Smitty0305 wrote:Next game against a space marine player he tried telling me that his tactical marines had grenades that took away my assault bonus, I laughed my ass off and told him of he lied again id tell the TO and have him kicked out.

You mean defensive grenades?

Which Space Marines don't have?

I think when people see frag and krak grenades they assume that means both offensive and defensive grenades, when in fact it's just offensive grenades (frag) and krak are only good for armor penning vehicles, iirc. I don't have my rulebook on me (275 miles away) and I mainly play orcs, so don't pay too much attention to it, really.

Actually I just missed the word "tactical" because I'm pretty sure there's a unit with defensive grenades in the SM book.
Regardless, his wording made it seem like no such item exists. When, in fact, it does.

There isn't.

The only thing that has defensive grenades in the space marine army is Ironclads.

Brother SRM wrote:I was getting in a pickup game at a game store. One guy said yes, and asked to see my army list. He then walked off, wrote an army list specifically to tailor mine, and proceeded to beat my army into the ground. I didn't say anything because I was new to the store and didn't want to get outed on the first game, but I haven't gone there in about three and a half years anyway since the community was so horrible.

We have someone like that in our FoW league. He asks what you are playing and looks at your army and tailors his to deal with it. Now we all just wait until he put his own army out to get our minis on the table. If he asks what we are playing we tell him the faction and that is all. Was getting annoying, but now it isn't a problem anymore. I hate when people have to try and win at all costs.

Skriker

My store has a lot of Richard moves. Ive had a game against Sw (me) against ultramarines who claimed he hit on 3s in cc because ultramarines are better marines. 3 days ago i had someone claim the attacker cant pick the weapon destroyed, then when his oblits attacked my predator, picked the turret gun as his weapon destroyed. I had an SoB player claim posion doesnt re-roll to wounds in CC against a De army. FnP works against wounds that cause instant death, necron warriors have 3+ saves, termies can assault from deepstrike because they are relentless...a few others. Nothing is as bad as the warmachine guys though...

Poison just has a static to wound number unless stated otherwise. Not knowing the type DE has of course.

n0t_u wrote:Poison just has a static to wound number unless stated otherwise. Not knowing the type DE has of course.

Poison can re-roll wounds if the S of the weapon is equal to or higher the T of the target.

Basimpo wrote:Heres some good Richardy that i just encountered in my last game, with the opponent telling me i have no common sense and quitting after i moved my "immobilised" CCB.

Anyway, before the game starts we discuss the terrain, and label it. Anything else is considered clear terrain, or at least to my understanding.
He has CSM, i have Necrons.

Turn 3, he brings a landraider from reserves and sets it up on a "road" which looks like 2 muddy tracks going from top to bottom.
Movement, he says he gets to move an extra 6 because of being on the road and i disagree, saying that we didnt talk about it beforehand.
He cites page 57 in which i respond "Oh, you mean roads, which is after the part about discussing the effects of terrain on vehicles before the game starts?"

What i hate is finding out something new about terrain in the middle of the game that just so HAPPENS to be in the opponents favor, like, Oh, that middle building is blos for you, but i can see through it.

Do you feel i was wrong in this?

Yes, you were wrong.

I would have looked at you like you had a second head if you said that the road that was clearly on the table was actually not a road...

rigeld2 wrote:

n0t_u wrote:Poison just has a static to wound number unless stated otherwise. Not knowing the type DE has of course.

Poison can re-roll wounds if the S of the weapon is equal to or higher the T of the target.

In Close Combat.