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With lances though, against other mounted troops you have to really aim for the guy on the horse, otherwise you will always catch the horse. If you're looking down your lance at where the guy's abdomen would be, you're likely to just strike the horse instead.

It's not bad to unhorse a mounted unit, since it slows them down and can make lances they're holding useless, but killing the guy potentially saves your own, and gives you a spare horse in case yours dies, even if its just to escape chasing enemies.

It's still very easy to hit the rider with.

Still easy, yes, so long as you keep it pointed at him and not at his crotch.

I found that killing the horses is a lot less difficult than killing the knight. I try to direct my blows at the guy, but when he's a tough nut to crack (good parrying skills or a huge shield) I often safe myself the trouble and just unhorse him.

Mounted troops are often ridiculously easy to outmaneuver. Once you get behind them, all you need to do is match their speed and keep poking at the ass of their horse. That's the easy mode, though, and not quite as challenging/fun as a proper charge.

If I'm on foot, I'm using throwing axes against riders. I may hit the horse's head, which makes the rider fall down and allows me to finish him off in close combat. Or I may hit the rider, kill him, and enable me to steal his mount. Either way, I win.

Another alternative is thrusting a spear against an incoming horseman.

A spear, pike, or lance thrust against the horse can sometimes unhorse the rider in one go, and then you switch to a close combat weapon and finish him off.

The pike, bane of knights...

Potentially frustrating as it requires careful timing, though. It's a powerful weapon as the enemy is basically impaling himself (bonus damage from his own speed), but if you thrust too early you're going to miss, and if you thrust too late you just get trampled/killed.
But yeah, I would advise Orlanth to give it a try! The timing is critical and takes some practice, but it's next to impossible missing such a huge target.

Throwing axes may require some aim and are limited, but I guess you get a tiny bit of more time to react if you should really miss. Just enough time to dive out of the way and evade the killing blow, even if you might still get a few points of damage from bumping the horse.

I must say I dont find it *that* easy. You often need a good amount of speed and and a real fine aiming for a good lance kill. Perhaps it has something to do with my faulty graphic card, but I often end up missing the target slightly.


Even worse in Multiplayer when you have to lower the lance yourself (again and again).

However its really useful to make the cav. follow you and circle the enemy, while your infantry either holds the ground or charges. When your infantry is in range you can order your cav to attack (from the side) and circle to the rear alone. Often the enemy splits up, or wasting fire on the fast moving cav or at least has their shield either to the cav so your archers can hit them or to inf and archers leaving them as easy prey for you and your cav.

I find it a bit boring midplay. Once you get leadership to command 50-60 men its hard to get a bigger army.

I just got a Rhodok castle all by myself and made me an independent nation (one castle only) altough I begin to think it wasnt a smart move. However the income is very handy.

Dark Scipio wrote:I find it a bit boring midplay. Once you get leadership to command 50-60 men its hard to get a bigger army.

The tricky thing is to keep oneself employed as to retain sufficient finances to pay the troops there. Your army is now too slow to pursue deserters and bandits, but at the same time it's (or so I fear) too small to really start a war with one of the big factions, whose lords often run around with 100+ troops, not to mention the size of their castle garrisons.

Still, I'm biding my time now. Going to get me a nice little realm of my own once people are at war again, snatching it right under their noses as long as they're busy.

I'm only on the fence where to take it from. My character 's a Nord, so I'd like a piece of Nord land with villagers in whose veins runs proper warrior blood. On the other hand, I'm currently on pretty good terms with the Nord king and his lords, and there's no Nord territory currently occupied by those Swadian pigs or any of the other foreign nations.

The other option is to side the the Nord rebel leader and effectively become king by proxy. Its not an easy game by any means as you will be fighting off large armies but at least it is exciting and as the Nords lack heavy cavalry is should still be doable.

Lynata wrote:

Dark Scipio wrote:I find it a bit boring midplay. Once you get leadership to command 50-60 men its hard to get a bigger army.

The tricky thing is to keep oneself employed as to retain sufficient finances to pay the troops there. Your army is now too slow to pursue deserters and bandits, but at the same time it's (or so I fear) too small to really start a war with one of the big factions, whose lords often run around with 100+ troops, not to mention the size of their castle garrisons.

Still, I'm biding my time now. Going to get me a nice little realm of my own once people are at war again, snatching it right under their noses as long as they're busy.

I'm only on the fence where to take it from. My character 's a Nord, so I'd like a piece of Nord land with villagers in whose veins runs proper warrior blood. On the other hand, I'm currently on pretty good terms with the Nord king and his lords, and there's no Nord territory currently occupied by those Swadian pigs or any of the other foreign nations.

The funds are not the problem. The Leadership is. Mostly all quest were done by now or are too boring (another Banditchase, but now with a slower warband?) and as you said so with 50-60 men you can hardly challange any faction or castle. I was glad to seize a Rhodok castle they just retook from the ,,Arabs" (forget their ingame name).

And I wouldnt like to attack my fellow Nords either.

Dark Scipio wrote:The funds are not the problem. The Leadership is. Mostly all quest were done by now or are too boring (another Banditchase, but now with a slower warband?) and as you said so with 50-60 men you can hardly challange any faction or castle.

I guess that's just a matter of time. At a certain stage, farming Renown seems to be the primary way to increase party size:


If you're now lord of your own fief (that Rhodok castle) it should give you +10 to army size as well, though. Being a Marshal or a King adds even more!

By the way, I just stumbled over this multiplayer campaign mod ... anyone playing it? -> http://c-rpg.net/

"Throw rocks. Rocks are a great way to participate in the battle from behind the line. Be prepared to run for friends if you draw too much attention."
-- C-RPG's "Peasant Guide"

I played C-RPG back in the day, but I can't seem to log my old guy on anymore. I am not in the mood to grind back up from peasant to my former glory.

Lynata wrote:

Dark Scipio wrote:The funds are not the problem. The Leadership is. Mostly all quest were done by now or are too boring (another Banditchase, but now with a slower warband?) and as you said so with 50-60 men you can hardly challange any faction or castle.

I guess that's just a matter of time. At a certain stage, farming Renown seems to be the primary way to increase party size:


If you're now lord of your own fief (that Rhodok castle) it should give you +10 to army size as well, though. Being a Marshal or a King adds even more!

By the way, I just stumbled over this multiplayer campaign mod ... anyone playing it? -> http://c-rpg.net/

"Throw rocks. Rocks are a great way to participate in the battle from behind the line. Be prepared to run for friends if you draw too much attention."
-- C-RPG's "Peasant Guide"

Thanks. Renown, I forgot about that. You get these from difficult battles too right? Time to get some. For now my army is a bit depleted because I stationed most of it in the castle (still only 40 men), to get more and to cut the costs.

A multiplayer campagin sounds great, I was a bit dissapointed when I found out MP is only battling.

C-rpg has a sort of side game/add on called Strategus.
You'll want to look into it.

Dark Scipio wrote:Renown, I forgot about that. You get these from difficult battles too right? Time to get some.

From almost any battle - but the bigger / more difficult, the more renown.

It might be better if you keep a large part of your army in the castle and just take a small squad with you to hunt some bandits - lots of fights with little Renown might net you more than few fights with lots of Renown. Also, troops in a castle only need half upkeep, iirc?

Dark Scipio wrote:A multiplayer campagin sounds great, I was a bit dissapointed when I found out MP is only battling.

Multiplayer battles are fun, though! At least the really big ones on a server with 60+ people.

In M&B, I'm usually playing MP with my fierce Nord maiden, Brianna. If I can't go Nord in a battle, I make her a Swadian or Rhodok crossbow infantryman.
In Napoleonic Wars, I'm having a guy by the name of Delazar. Playing mostly as British, French or Prussian whenever possible, either as an Infantry Ranker or Officer.

Yeah that is what I meant with cutting the costs. However my problem is that I am still at war with the Rhodoks and they unfortunally made peace with the ,,Arabs" they fought so long.

So they are roaming around the castle with their full might, leaving me not much to go from there.

Dont get me wrong, altough I totally suck I like Multiplayer battles, a shame most go without any decent teamplay.

Although I prefer Nords, I join any faction, however I still have to get better weapons skill.

Teamplay seems to come much more easily in Napoleonic Wars, I think. Possibly because half the classes are specifically geared towards it, but also because a lot of people agree it's quite simply a lot of fun to see such an army working together.

Granted, line battles are something you're probably only going to see between clans, but even on the public servers with random people you'll have impromptu teamplay with soldiers gathering at their army's flag, or two people sharing a cannon, or musicians forming up to accompany advancing troops with fancy tunes.

Lynata wrote:Teamplay seems to come much more easily in Napoleonic Wars, I think. Possibly because half the classes are specifically geared towards it, but also because a lot of people agree it's quite simply a lot of fun to see such an army working together.

Granted, line battles are something you're probably only going to see between clans, but even on the public servers with random people you'll have impromptu teamplay with soldiers gathering at their army's flag, or two people sharing a cannon, or musicians forming up to accompany advancing troops with fancy tunes.

Sounds like I should give Napol. Wars a try.

Using a lance is much more difficult in warband. In the original game, the lance was lowered automatically in the exact same fashion every time. You really could not aim it. There also was no cooldown time between lowering your lance like there is in warband.

Also - Do not think that Nords are weak because they do not have cavalry. My main character is at level 46 and commands an almost exclusive nordic army. They are at a distinct disadvantage on open fields, but when it comes to sieging castles, nobody does it better than nords. Their infantry have some of the toughest shields (health wise, not size wise), they have the hardest hitting weapons as they all use hand axes and great axes, and they have some of the highest armor, in addition to having the highest health and athletics skills. Also - they have throwing weapons that hit very hard. A strategy I use is to cluster my huscarls in a wall 3 or 4 soldiers thick and have them all hold fire until the enemy is very close. Just before my enemies initiate a charge, I switch the huscarl to use their ranged weapons and they usually end up mowing down about a dozen or so knights during the charge. The best part is that the knights out front get killed, and their horses block the path of the other knights resulting in only a few knights actually making a successful charge on my infantry. Once the knights trickle into my shield wall, my huscarls pull out their great axes and surround them.

Castle battles are even easier. Axes do much more damage to enemy shields and my huscarl greataxes usually knock out my enemy's shields with a single swing. Once their shields are gone, the defenders start falling very quickly.

Nordic archers are also very good, I believe they are the only archers that are equipped with long bows which hit fairly hard and are very accurate over long distances.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lynata wrote:

Dark Scipio wrote:Renown, I forgot about that. You get these from difficult battles too right? Time to get some.

From almost any battle - but the bigger / more difficult, the more renown.

It might be better if you keep a large part of your army in the castle and just take a small squad with you to hunt some bandits - lots of fights with little Renown might net you more than few fights with lots of Renown. Also, troops in a castle only need half upkeep, iirc?

Dark Scipio wrote:A multiplayer campagin sounds great, I was a bit dissapointed when I found out MP is only battling.

Multiplayer battles are fun, though! At least the really big ones on a server with 60+ people.

In M&B, I'm usually playing MP with my fierce Nord maiden, Brianna. If I can't go Nord in a battle, I make her a Swadian or Rhodok crossbow infantryman.
In Napoleonic Wars, I'm having a guy by the name of Delazar. Playing mostly as British, French or Prussian whenever possible, either as an Infantry Ranker or Officer.

You need an upgrade in the town/city that lowers the upkeep costs. Also - winning tournaments nets a very large amount of renown in a very small period of time, I think you get 20 or so if you win. In addition to a ton of gold and respect from the city where the tourny was held.

Avatar 720 wrote:With lances though, against other mounted troops you have to really aim for the guy on the horse, otherwise you will always catch the horse. If you're looking down your lance at where the guy's abdomen would be, you're likely to just strike the horse instead.

It's not bad to unhorse a mounted unit, since it slows them down and can make lances they're holding useless, but killing the guy potentially saves your own, and gives you a spare horse in case yours dies, even if its just to escape chasing enemies.

It's dishonourable to strike horse against a knightly opponent. Yes I am roleplaying this.

I am ok with my corral and shoot technique for bandit killing, but it doesnt work once i start a warband. The way I see it, I can level up to 15th easily enough playing solo with my technique, could go further if I wished, but thats enough. So first i build the man, after that I go to the second stage of my campaign and build the warband, thirdly the kingdom. I do not expect to be seeing much melee as king, however to make this 'work' I have to be passably good in melee, enough so not to lose to belligent drunks or fall on every battle whenever I get in sword range. I need not be a melee killer with WS6 but for the game to make sense I must be able to stand in the shieldwall or on the battlements and at least parry. To be a real warband leader from this sort of time period being the best fighter wasnt the issue, you were the leader, what was the issue was your courage in the line, fancy horse archery doesn't count. I don't see the character concept as working until my guy can stand in the line and fight a battle, if that requires nearly 100% parry thats ok, so long as my blade is wet I dont even need to be really good, its being seen on the line and staying there is what counts. Thisd means some otken battle are to be fought on foot, even if I switch to lance later, which may seem like a good long term plan.

Just remember that in the long run, intelligence and charisma are far more important. Once you get about twelve strength and agility, that's the highest you will likely ever need to be-- everything else can go in to intelligence and (to a lesser extent) charisma.

I found if you get followers to get the more intelligence based skills, such as the healing and scouting ones, then you can afford to put less points on intelligence. You have to make sure to keep your followers safe, but if you put them on the archer line, as well as the bottom of the party, I've found it perfectly fine to stick a 12 on intelligence and leave it there.

Maybe, but that's not really helpful if you want to make them nobles in your new nation...

Anyone bother with Ironflesh?

I cant see the point, it looks like a waste of a skill point to me.

Not really Best way to avoid dying is to kill the other guy first, or to block.

I found charisma to be one of the most important skills in the long run, if not THE most important. Charisma gives you higher leadership, which is critical for a lord looking to lead an army. It increases party size and lowers upkeep cost of your army. After I get charisma to 27, I get INT to 12 and start ranking up str and agi. Once those stats are relatively high, I start stacking INT to get me the extra skill points.

I absolutely must have jeremus and borcha in my party for the pathfinding/tracking and the healing skills. There are many skills that you are better off putting points into that your companions cant have - all of the "leader" skills do nothing on your companions until you make them vassals.

On to ironflesh - It looks pointless early game, and it is, mainly because everything hits you so hard, having 6 extra health wont matter. However, later on in the game, when you have heavy armor, your enemies wont hit you as hard. I generally take between 2 and 10 damage when I get hit, so, my 8 ranks of iron flesh can actually absorb quite a few attacks.

I metagame'd and planned my character's party before even playing... go on the wiki and look up every follower and you can plan all their skills. All I plough my points into are the leadership skills that party members can't cover for you. At the end of the day you can get a surgeon, inventory manager, siege engineer, trainer etc. by recruiting and training characters toward their 'natural' areas.

I've never made nobles in my new nation, though... I keep losing my saves as I am a moron when it comes to backing them up so the furthest I ever got was on Vanilla M&B when I helped the Swadian claimant seize her throne

Ironflesh is one of my most critical talents. It may not add much, but it can make the difference between life and death. Even when you intend to simply not get hit in the first place (as everyone likely does ), sometimes it just cannot be avoided, so being able to endure two or three additional blows can really decide the fight for ya.

Especially once you start having better armor, as KingKodo mentioned.

It's never really been an issue for me.... mind you, with the great long war axe (or whatever it's called) I have combined with power strike, it's rarely an issue that an enemy survives more than one hit anyway.

I'm currently carrying shield + axe, a two-handed greatsword, and throwing axes.

I suppose the tricky thing is that I try to lose as few of my men as possible, having me charge ahead and thus becoming a good target for enemy ranged weapons. Not to mention that the opposing troops then try to zerg me. Even bandits can get bothersome if you're facing 30 on your own with little room to maneuver (-> "urban combat" in a village), heh.

That said, I suppose it's more useful for mid-game when you still have to care about things like trying not to have a single casualty, and not having top armour yet.