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Anyone play it, which version should I get, apparently there are four stand alones currently.

M&B: Warband or M&B: With Fire and Sword are the two most recent ones.

Jury's stil out on which is better. M&B: Warband has, arguably from my view, a more interesting setting and storyline, as well as far more interesting armor and weapon choices (due to its focus on melee combat, it has a large variety of leather, chain, scale, plate armor, and melee weapons and bows/crossbows), while M&B: WFaS has guns and a historical setting as well as superior army set up (in some ways, such as the ability to buy better equipment for your soldiers; in others, it's not quite as good, as the conscripted non-mercenary units can't upgrade nearly as much as in warband) but lacks a lot of the variety (most "armor" being merely military uniforms, with actual armor being somewhat rare).

Most people seem to prefer Warband, and I rather agree despite my love of customization and blackpowder firearms. I'd start there, unless you really have a hard-on for polish renaissance history, as you can have guns in Warband with the right mods anyway.

I also have to say Warband for the reasons Mel has stated.

Yup, Warband.

Though I have to admit I've never actually played the firearms version, and my aversion is entirely based on mixing traditional swordplay with guns. Albeit entirely valid from a historical PoV and I do like Napoleonic Wars'ish warfare, I simply prefer them remaining apart. Basically, to me, 17th century hits the "uncanny valley" between 15th and 19th. Also, this kind of fighting needs proper line combat, and I'm not sure WFaS is able to convey this, not to mention if this would even work in an "FPS".
For this kind of fighting, I continue to prefer Battle Grounds 2.

+ 1 for warband. Love that game btw, some good mods too.

I just got the collectors edition from eBay, includes three of the four titles, all except Napoleonic. Cost £15.94 free postage.
Its an open sale so there are copies left as I write.

Even though Fire and Sword was released most recently Warband is actually the most modern version. There isn't much difference in practice though.

F&S features blackpowder weapons which are significantly more powerful than arrows (you can quite easily get one shotted early in the game) so combat is quite a lot harder for that reason. The basic game is the same for each though.

If you must chose one go for Warband, just be aware that the early game is tedious, it only really opens up once you join a faction which can take a long time.

Game arrived today.

I am trying it on realistic settings, damn the learning curve and....
even novice troops are wiping the floor with me.

Anyone got some pointers because I am sucking at this game.

Fighting Looters is the best way to start out. When fighting them, if you start with a ranged weapon and a horse, it's fairly simple. Shoot the enemy, run away, shoot the enemy, run away, etc. If you don't have one (most starts do), then charge in on your horse, hit an enemy, then run past before they can hit you back.

If you don't have a horse... hm. I think all starts give you a horse these days? Well, you're basically screwed, so go to some villages and recruit some soldiers if you can, or buy a horse somewhere.

Soldiers are MUCH tougher than looters, even basic recruits and tribesmen. Heck soldiers are usually far tougher than bandits aside from sea bandits-- after the first upgrade, they can handle most bandits save for the nordic sea raiders, whom at times can be are tough enough to take on anything short of knights in equal numbers.

I think these days everyone starts out with a horse by default. Spoiled brats, I say!

But yes, looters. Search for and fight small groups of looters, then sell their loot to hire recruits from villages. Having at least 1 point in the "prisoners" skill comes in handy here, as you can make some money selling slaves, too. Don't try to face properly trained enemies until you've got an army of at least 20-30 men (or women) and have some better armour than just an ol' leather duster.

Also: Purchased the Napoleonic Wars DLC last night. Amazing. Still have to work out how to properly aim a cannon, but leading a troop of 20 infantry bots into a multiplayer battle is wicked fun.

Hell if you're good you don't really need a horse anyway, you just need a staff and a throwing dagger or some other ranged weapon to take on groups of five or six looters (the prime amount if you only have one point in prisoners).

The first weapon I try to find is a lance, makes killing small groups really easy.

Melissia wrote:Fighting Looters is the best way to start out. When fighting them, if you start with a ranged weapon and a horse, it's fairly simple. Shoot the enemy, run away, shoot the enemy, run away, etc. If you don't have one (most starts do), then charge in on your horse, hit an enemy, then run past before they can hit you back.

I tried that, it went miss, run away, miss run away. I dont know why but my character with 50 in crossbow was missing the targets at the practice range at ten yards more often than not. At twenty yards I might get one or two hits in, none at thirty.

I 'solved' this problem by attempting to shoot only into masses of infantry. I scored hit and with my character being as low as he was, every other hit resulted in a skill increase. i restarted though and quickly moved to my melee skill instead.

Melissia wrote:
If you don't have a horse... hm. I think all starts give you a horse these days? Well, you're basically screwed, so go to some villages and recruit some soldiers if you can, or buy a horse somewhere.

I think you always start with a horse. Anyway I have a slow poor quality horse. I am happy with that.

Melissia wrote:
Soldiers are MUCH tougher than looters, even basic recruits and tribesmen. Heck soldiers are usually far tougher than bandits aside from sea bandits-- after the first upgrade, they can handle most bandits save for the nordic sea raiders, whom at times can be are tough enough to take on anything short of knights in equal numbers.

I learned that the hard way. I tried to take on some sea bandits at 2:1 superiority. I took them down and losrt the majority of my force. Then all the sea bandits came for me, and they outran me. I couldnt fight so i9 had to leave a man behind, three times before I got away with a huge morale penalty.

Still I learned, the second time I came back with a much larger force. They ran, but by fighting close to the sea I hemmed them in and tookm out sea raiser bands one after the other. excellent look flowed.



After a couple of false starts I got the hang of it. I play with 'ironman' saves, so i restarted the whole game about three times before making progress. That progress has been slow, sea raider prolbems etc, but I think I have the hamng of it.

- I can reliably beat novices in training duels, and have an evens chance against a regular. Not taken down three regulars in a row yet.
- I learned to use the sparring function at the training casmp to built up my recruits.
- Every so often I recruit up to about 50 men. Take it easy for a while then go back to hunting sea raiders. I recruit only Swadians at the moment, so I know what I have got. Recruiits are trained up ASAP. Militia are added to my archer force (normally they *are* the archer force plus a skirmisher or two and a weak character. I sit them at the back and ignore them.
- I still cannot really aim, but if i charge ahead i get the enemy after me. by running around in front of my own army I split up the enemy so my forces can deal with them piecemeal. Even so if will occassionally turn inwards and take a swipe with a large axe. A good hit will kill a sea raider.
- I learned that if ambushed in a town on the way to a tavern I can run out of the gates. I cant handle those ambush parties and they take my cash.

i currently have a band of of about fifty, with a weekly pay of about 430 denars. its draining my cash, but I am getting good loot from the raiders and am selling it in a nearby city. This is keeping me stocked. i had about 2k in cash, but i wasted that on a recruit run which was actually an attempt to search cities for a ransom trader. I am overstocked on sea raider captives, I had to let five go last battle.

Still this is high risk. To catch the sea raiders I am near a hideout of theirs which is conveniently near a city. there is probably a quest to destroy it, but for now it serves my purposes being there. Until the last battle the raiders were running on sight, now they are ambiguous. One fight too many and they will all suddenly turn inwards.

I played the fire and sword expansion and I did not like it. It just seems like the guns have next to no skill involved, and they basically kill everything in one shot. While this may be accurate, it sucks to play with! I cannot count how many times an enemy's bullet randomly happened to hit me and ended the battle. Low end rifles do over 100dmg, and you start with around 50hp...I dont think you can even get over 100 health so the guns will basically be one hit kills all game.

Napoleonic wars is the newest expansion and it looks much better than fire and sword. I havent tried it, but it looks like they improved upon the gameplay SIGNIFICANTLY. They added siege weapons that the player can operate. Destructable terrain. musicians, and engineers. It costs 10$ on steam atm.

I have 471 hours in the original mount and blade and about 390 hours in warband...and 2 hours in fire and sword. Warband is the best out of the three.

Orlanth wrote:I tried that, it went miss, run away, miss run away. I dont know why but my character with 50 in crossbow was missing the targets at the practice range at ten yards more often than not. At twenty yards I might get one or two hits in, none at thirty.

Fifty is pretty low, yeah. But yes, your character sucks when you start.

Orlanth wrote:Still I learned, the second time I came back with a much larger force. They ran, but by fighting close to the sea I hemmed them in and tookm out sea raiser bands one after the other. excellent look flowed.

Sea Raiders have some of the better loot in th game. You get what you risk.

Orlanth wrote:- I can reliably beat novices in training duels, and have an evens chance against a regular. Not taken down three regulars in a row yet.

That's a simple matter of learning when to block, really. One on one is fairly easy unless you have to rely on a bow/arrow and dagger.

Orlanth wrote:- I learned to use the sparring function at the training casmp to built up my recruits.

Good man.

Orlanth wrote:- Every so often I recruit up to about 50 men. Take it easy for a while then go back to hunting sea raiders. I recruit only Swadians at the moment

I actually recommend the norsemen, as well. They're insanely tough infantry with decent archers-- in fact, their infantry is the best in the game bar none, although they lack in mounted soldiers. If you're already fighting lots of Sea Raiders, you could do far worse than going with them.

Is anyone doing multiplayer these days? Either Warbands or Napoleonic Wars. I've rediscovered M&B and having a blast on the various servers. Might be fun to meet other dakkanauts there.

Also, Nords ftw!

Warband has the Napoleon addon too, which is boss.

I prefer Warband for its 'political' options; With Fire and Sword lacks marriage and other such intricacies...

where do I get this game?

http://www.taleworlds.com/ -> "Warband" -> "Buy"

Anyone can download the game, but you need to purchase a serial key to unlock its full version.

... or you can just buy it on Steam, too.

I downloaded it, but it doesnt seem to be working.

Personally I always look for Sea Raider camps to bump up my reknown, chasing looters all over the map is no fun at all. Sea Raider camps spawn on the Nord coast (you will see a lot of Sea Raider bands if you are int he right area) but can take some finding. They generally contain about 10-15 Raiders so shouldn't be much of a problem for a reasonably sized army, you can't use your horse though.
The other option is to travel from village to village looking for quests, specifically the bandit one as this will give you a decent fight and you will have a horde of villagers on your side so its qutie easy (no loot though).

Once you have sufficent reknown (120 I think) definately join a faction as this will open up much bigger battles including sieges (and a lot less Benny Hill style chases) and you will be granted your first fief. Swadia or Vaegir are probably the best choice as they have heavy cavalry and solid infantry while Rodoks is the worst as their troops are frankly useless.

The other think that I would suggest is hiring companions from taverns, they cost 300 gold each but you can equip them as you like and they can have useful skills.

JohnnoM wrote:I downloaded it, but it doesnt seem to be working.

Well, what does it say? Do you get an error message, is the program simply not responding?

Palindrome wrote:Personally I always look for Sea Raider camps to bump up my reknown, chasing looters all over the map is no fun at all. Sea Raider camps spawn on the Nord coast (you will see a lot of Sea Raider bands if you are int he right area) but can take some finding.

Also seems to be time-based - I've encountered a number of Sea Raiders in my current game, but right now there just aren't any around. I'm starting to assume the game follows some sort of annual cycle and that the Sea Raiders only show up in certain weeks, mimicking the original Vikings' raids.

Palindrome wrote:Once you have sufficent reknown (120 I think) definately join a faction as this will open up much bigger battles including sieges (and a lot less Benny Hill style chases) and you will be granted your first fief. Swadia or Vaegir are probably the best choice as they have heavy cavalry and solid infantry while Rodoks is the worst as their troops are frankly useless.

Alternatively, just offer yourself and your men up as mercenaries. Staying independent can have advantages of its own. Specifically that you can more easily carve out your own kingdom, should you have such aspirations! Being a vassal means you won't have to capture your first fief yourself, though (unless you're playing a woman - no freebies for you in that case).
Even as a vassal you may always choose to rebel against your king, but of course this will brand you a traitor.

Palindrome wrote:The other think that I would suggest is hiring companions from taverns, they cost 300 gold each but you can equip them as you like and they can have useful skills.

Definitively. And they have a bigger chance of surviving injuries.
Also, their prices vary - most seem to cost around 300, but I've had ones for 100 and 500 as well. One, I think it was Ymira, even offered herself for free, just because she wanted to get away. She's a lousy fighter, though. I've begun to train her with a bow, but otherwise she's just coming along for her logistical skills and as my emissary.

Somehow my close combat ability has got worse, this game is hard and I done have the Dex for it frankly.

However I have found a near foolproof way of power levelling a character.

when you begin go out into the wilderness with an extra bag of ammo. Find some looters, it doesnt mattwer how many. Ride artound them watching them throw rocks futily at you, then carry on riding around them counter clockwise tighter and tighter until all the looters are in a tight mass. get in close and fire your basic missile weapon into the mass, you cannot miss.

one you have got the hang of that try it with forest bandits. Yrs they shoot lots of arrows, but you fight them in the open riding around at long range, if you keep your speed up they wont hit you. Oncve the shooting stops they are no more able to defend themselves from your return fire than the looters.

Trick is to have plenty of spare ammo in your baggage crate. I keep a mix of crossbow and two sets of bolts, bow and two sets of arrows and three bags of stones. I use them in reverse order ajnd end up with good skills in all three.

I normally go for bands of ten or so forest bandits, but once I was jumped by 39 and another time by 35 and defeated them on my own with a low level character and no great mouse skill.

If I cant get nimble enough with mouse and keyboard at least I can use strategy.

All this stops once i start an army though, so its a technique for building a character from scratch, before I even recruit five men.

Once you get an army, a lot of it is training, composition ,and making sure you don't fight an enemy who is stronger than you.

Sure, my high level character (who is the queen of her own nation...) can hack her way through an army during a siege, but that's mostly due to buggy siege AI and overpowered great long-axes (which kill most enemies in one hit, and shatter shields easily).

Orlanth wrote:Somehow my close combat ability has got worse, this game is hard and I done have the Dex for it frankly.

Hmmh, if you really dislike getting up-close-and-personal with the enemy, you might try standing back and using a crossbow, maybe? Focus on logistical skills (Leadership, Training, etc) and let your army do the fighting.

Worst case you can always become a raider yourself and loot/pillage some random villages. Peasants are easily subdued, and if you keep your travel speed high the armies of the realm won't be able to catch you. Use the loot to increase the size of your armies.
Best do this only when the realms are at war, though, because it means their armies are busy. Even when you're quick on the road, the pillaging does take some time during which a lord could, in theory, react to your presence.

If you want to focus on commanding, I'd suggest Leadership, Training, and Surgery.

The former is really mandatory for anyone who wants an army (increases army size, increases morale, reduces the upkeep of the army, etc). Training helps in some village missions, and allows you to upgrade your army faster as they get experience faster. And Surgery helps ensure that your units are killed less often (just knocked out instead).

Also, do learn to use movement and attack orders!

The tactical part of M&B is very slim and basic, but you do have the option of dividing your army into a number of formations which you can issue orders to. If you learn which troop type is best for what, this could make for an interesting game...

For example, putting your army at the top of a hill... march your infantry ten steps forward, down the hill, make your cavalry follow you, andlet your enemy come to you... charge witht eh cavalry at the enemy's flank after they run in to your infantry.

The archers should be free to keep firing as much as they can, while the infantry do what they generally do best (absorb charges) and the cavalry break up thet enemy ranks.

Just a basic deployment.

Lynata wrote:Hmmh, if you really dislike getting up-close-and-personal with the enemy, you might try standing back and using a crossbow, maybe? Focus on logistical skills (Leadership, Training, etc) and let your army do the fighting.

I would like it, but somehow melee combat doesnt agree with me.

Lynata wrote:
Worst case you can always become a raider yourself and loot/pillage some random villages. Peasants are easily subdued, and if you keep your travel speed high the armies of the realm won't be able to catch you. Use the loot to increase the size of your armies.
Best do this only when the realms are at war, though, because it means their armies are busy. Even when you're quick on the road, the pillaging does take some time during which a lord could, in theory, react to your presence.

Not how I want to play the character. I suppose I can do passably well in a shield wall with heavy armour if I concentrate on parrying with a shield and attack only when the circumstances are in my favour.
As for mounted combat, I miss an awful lot, even when running down fleeing troops. I just cant get the timing right.
My score on the horseback training was abysmal, and not getting better with practice.

i love the game but am too rusty for button mashing.

Try lances then, for mounted combat. All you have to do is run fast and point the pointy end in the right direction, no timing involved.