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Well, this is certainly bizarre. I can only assume that Formosa is a Chaos player? I am also a Chaos player, and a Tyranid player. Preaching about the unrealistic success of either faction is just plain silly. I could play Tau, and I wouldn't start saying about how amazing Firewarriors are in close combat.

Yes, Uriel defeated Leviathan. A teeny, tiny, teensy piece of Leviathan. Leviathan alone is shown to be longer than the Milky Way is wide - it's so long, that on the star map Kain mentioned, the bulk of it is off the edge of the picture, and yet it's still longer than the Milky Way and about 1/5 the thickness. That is one single solitary Hive Fleet. Even if they are the largest, which they might not be, it gets slightly ridiculous when you count the potential other Hive Fleets that are approaching the galaxy.

So no, Chaos do not outnumber Tyranids, don't be silly. Nobody outnumbers the Tyranids, not even Orks.

As for daemons - the reason why we never see the potential limitless amount of daemons is because each daemon represents a sliver of their God's power. Just as it is impossible for one of the Gods to break into the Materium without expending much of their power and vastly weakening themselves, so too can they not simply spam daemons at everything until they win. That's not how daemons work. Also, Tyranids are still superior to daemons in every way. Oh, and did you forget the Shadow in the Warp, which fluff-wise is basically Grey Knight levels of anti-daemon?

Chaos Marines negate the use of gaunts. Somewhat. You're forgetting the purpose of gaunts. Even in the assault on Macragge - just one planet, just one attack, just one piece of one fleet - there were billions of them. They caused definite trouble for Space Marines, and this was their home turf.

The other thing about Tyranids is that, unlike other factions, they are not limited to unit types. Of course, their codex units and the famous ones (from Genestealers to Tyrants to Gaunts to Lictors) are a limited list, but in fluff? In fluff, the Tyranids are able to so rapidly produce a creature designed for a specific purpose that their ability to adapt and overcome is unmatched. The origin story of Venomthropes, for example. Not that Tyranids have had any specific trouble with Marines at all in the past...

In fluff, Genestealers are the bane of Terminators. Of course, fluff varies so greatly in its depictions of things, but generally, Genestealers beat everything in close combat. They're also far stealthier than they are in the game, and Lictors are actually effective.

Chaos is vastly outnumbered and outgunned by the Imperium. They don't have more ships - sure, they get the occasional traitors, but 50%+ of all ships built/crewed definitely do not defect. For every hundred ships, maybe one goes to Chaos - being super-generous. In order for Chaos to have more ships, it'd have to be more like the other way around, which would be completely stupid on part of the Imperium.

As for the "100 Tyrants" thing; no, they wouldn't spam 100 Tyrants. They'd use the equivalent biomass to make something else worth even more, like a biotitan with ridiculous psychic powers and enough guns to make Gork and Mork stop punching each other to stare in awe for a few minutes.

An Imperial Titan might kill ten biotitans before it is destroyed. However, that Titan is irreplaceable. The biotitans? They get broken down and put back together, good as new.

Was it Eldrad who predicted that all the races would need to band together to survive the entirety of the Tyranids? I'm not up on my Eldar fluff, but I know somebody did.

I'm not saying that the Tyranids are the best at everything. They're not. Nor are Tau Firewarriors going to win in close combat. I really don't understand how people have to take their armies so personally, and talk about how they auto-win at everything ever.

Just to put things in perspective; Chaos have trouble with Catachan. On its own.

EDIT: As am I, kirsanth. As am I. "Lol Warp Rift" - why don't they do that for every conflict? Think about it. Also, uh, Shadow in the Warp.

I agree with this one.

I think Ocean nailed it. And now for other races before we focus too much on just one single species.

Reading path of the seer has made me wonder, what does the Hive mind look like on the Skein?

Like Pac-man chasing a little cartoon stick-elf.

OH GOD HE'S EATEN A CHERRY

ima Dark angels player not a chaos player lol

When did the Urial thing change or get retconned? is there still 2 leviathan tedrils coming into the galaxy trapping the systems inbetween them? if it hasnt he nuked 1 half of leviathan, the other was re-directed into the ork empire.

Anywho to your main points.

Neveer said chaos outnumber nids, just there are billions of traitor guard/cultists

Leviathan on the map is not to scale

Shadow in the warp only diswades minor deamons, i believe you mean the qoute where they are fleeing from it or something.

Nids have had massive trouble with marines in the past, but these are mainly "mary sue marines" to be fair

The hive mind wouldnt spawn 100 tyrants i agree, it would spawn biotitans and what not, not sure if your aware of it though but in the primarchs book Fulgrim turns a warhounds insides into a glob of flesh... you know the primarch that isnt know for being a psyker... now think what magnus being boosted by tzeench could do, not to mention knowing where the nids are and what they are going to do... cant fight that, the nids numbers mean nothing when all there synapse creatures are dead.

Chaos fleet: i assume you are unaware of battlefleet gothic and how chaos builds its own ships etc. chaos have a massive fleet, and the planet killer, this alone makes ground combat pointless.

Battle of macragge: did they ret-con this one too, if not is was not one little fleet, it was a massive one, after being killed, a 2nd showed up and the rest is history.

To be fair i am underestimating the traitor primarch and there abilities, nids have absolutly NO counter for these guys, they will be out smarted out manueverd out fought at every turn, constant hit and run attacks on the hive fleets will bleed them dry, and if all else fails... planet killer nuked planet and takes out there food source.

Frozen Ocean wrote:EDIT: As am I, kirsanth. As am I. "Lol Warp Rift" - why don't they do that for every conflict? Think about it. Also, uh, Shadow in the Warp.

They try, just about every time. That is the freaking point of almost every one of their attacks, is to open a Rift big enough for another eye of terror. In a campaign where all of Chaos was banned together an all 4 Gods were behind them (which I said, and hasn't ever really happened outside of HH) I'm sure something like that would be capable and extremely effective. Now whether or not humans, eldar, or other outside forces would come in and try to stop it is an unknown factor. I was talking Chaos v Tyranid with no interruptions.

Farseer Mael Dannan wrote: I was talking Chaos v Tyranid with no interruptions.

He obviusly hasnt met the orks!!!!

willhman wrote:

Farseer Mael Dannan wrote: I was talking Chaos v Tyranid with no interruptions.

He obviusly hasnt met the orks!!!!

Lol i concede this is so true


I'd imagine that the other factions would sit back and watch these 2 power houses go at each other and lol alot at the destruction... well at least untill it land on there doorstep

Formosa wrote:

willhman wrote:

Farseer Mael Dannan wrote: I was talking Chaos v Tyranid with no interruptions.

He obviusly hasnt met the orks!!!!

Lol i concede this is so true


I'd imagine that the other factions would sit back and watch these 2 power houses go at each other and lol alot at the destruction... well at least untill it land on there doorstep

Orks would attack regardless, because a three way fight iz even better than a two way. And then the Imperium, in all of it's "strategic-genius" would attack to try and eliminate both, the Eldar would meddle as they always do, the Dark Eldar would come in and swoop away some slaves, and the Necrons would bump in because Trazyn needs more things for his collection.

Kain wrote:The Chaos gods are incapable of entering the materium without expending so much of their energy that they'd become easy prey for the other three. I wouldn't count out the Eldar Gods if most of them weren't you know...dead or broken. And a fully formed C'Tan might do the trick, or one Imperator Titan/Abominus Titan/Mega-Gargant/Medusa V Tomb Stalker.

100 Hive Tyrants would be nothing to a fully formed C'tan. They eat stars, so 100 Hive Tyrants would be crushed like ants.

McNinja wrote:

Kain wrote:The Chaos gods are incapable of entering the materium without expending so much of their energy that they'd become easy prey for the other three. I wouldn't count out the Eldar Gods if most of them weren't you know...dead or broken. And a fully formed C'Tan might do the trick, or one Imperator Titan/Abominus Titan/Mega-Gargant/Medusa V Tomb Stalker.

100 Hive Tyrants would be nothing to a fully formed C'tan. They eat stars, so 100 Hive Tyrants would be crushed like ants.

That's why I'd say they'd do the trick. The C'tan at their peak were like an army of Galactuses...Galactusen...Galacti...Galac-Feth it.

Yeah, but when's a C'tan actually going to be there to stop them? The necrons don't want to give them power again!

The Necrons have advantages the Tyranids don't in battle, namely that their weapons often leave nothing behind, so every Tyranid casualty is destroyed on an atomic level, leaving no biomass for the Hive to consume and, when they fall, the Necrons leave nothing behind to be consumed.

The Necrons can also stage attacks from hyper-dimensional space, which the Tyranids seem to lack any way of accessing, and can use their Dolmen Gates to bring reinforcements from across the galaxy in a relatively short span of time (implied to be hours, at most, if the Tomb on the far end is active).

This isn't to say that the Necrons are a perfect counter to the Nids, as Tomb Worlds have fallen, but as far as the typical Tyranid tactic goes, the Necrons might be the best chance the galaxy has at stopping them.

I think that all the necrons active in the galaxy versus all the tyranids in the galaxy would easily give victory to the necrons. However, there could be a thousand times as many tyranids simply waiting outside, to see what happens. These also versus the nerons... well, I don't see much hope for the galaxy.

Psienesis wrote:The Necrons have advantages the Tyranids don't in battle, namely that their weapons often leave nothing behind, so every Tyranid casualty is destroyed on an atomic level, leaving no biomass for the Hive to consume and, when they fall, the Necrons leave nothing behind to be consumed.

When a necron falls, isn't there still the metal shells. Pryovores follow the swarm, consuing metals and harder materials that the more common creatures couldn't digest. They could devourer the dead necrons so could survive a war with them.

No, generally the metal phases out. after a battle with necrons, you'd be lucky to find a single little finger of a single fallen enemy.

On another question if Craftworld Ulthwe, Biel-tan, or Alaitoc was attacked by a swarm on the level of the force that struck at Iyanden, what would they need to do to not take as heavy losses as Iyanden did?

Fight a running battle in deep-space and use the Webway for hit-and-run tactics. Make heavy use of the Eldar plasma torpedoes that leave no biomass behind for the fleet to consume. Force the Hive to follow you, expending biomass as it goes, and dry-gulch them in deep space with no planets nearby to feed from.

Snipe, with torpedos, the narvhals, stranding the fleet between systems, forcing the fleet to use up biomass creating new narvhals.

In short, follow the Eldar path of feints, trickery and deceit in battle, attacking from ambush, strike-and-fade, and never, ever let yourself get bogged down in a set battle with the Hive Fleet.

I take it that the Eldar have learned their lesson from Iyanden? Would any of those three craftworlds be apt to call in help from the fleets of the others? And would said other craftworlds be willing to spare the resources? They for whatever reason, seemed to avoid doing so for Iyanden after all.

If I was an ork and I was fighting nids, I would be supremely frustrated. After the battle, there is not a lot to loot.

The topic of anti nids cadres came up before. I picture them carrying kroot rifles and bolters as side arms and with bloody daggers.

On a quick note, chaos wont unite.
Well, any of the 4 main ones wont anyway.

The chaos gods have had issues before in the past and the last time they united was to bring tzeentch down, which resulted in him smashing his crystal staff of power as a peace offering. (didnt want another god to weild the same power he did)
If they were to go on an all out attack, it would leave forces drained and leave then vulnerable to another god removing them from power.


This is from the daemons codex btw

nomotog wrote:If I was an ork and I was fighting nids, I would be supremely frustrated. After the battle, there is not a lot to loot.

The topic of anti nids cadres came up before. I picture them carrying kroot rifles and bolters as side arms and with bloody daggers.

Orks consider any sufficiently sharp teeth to be usable as currency, not just their own. So to the Orks, the Tyranids are loot of a different sort, they're walking piles of money.

And what of the Tyranid killer cadre's tactics?

Kain wrote:

nomotog wrote:If I was an ork and I was fighting nids, I would be supremely frustrated. After the battle, there is not a lot to loot.

The topic of anti nids cadres came up before. I picture them carrying kroot rifles and bolters as side arms and with bloody daggers.

Orks consider any sufficiently sharp teeth to be usable as currency, not just their own. So to the Orks, the Tyranids are loot of a different sort, they're walking piles of money.

And what of the Tyranid killer cadre's tactics?

Ya you get teeth, but there wouldn't me much to spend it on. Would there?

That's a bit harder to think of because I'm not 100% on the differences between tau and imperial communications. What effect would the warp shadow have on the tau.

nomotog wrote:

Kain wrote:

nomotog wrote:If I was an ork and I was fighting nids, I would be supremely frustrated. After the battle, there is not a lot to loot.

The topic of anti nids cadres came up before. I picture them carrying kroot rifles and bolters as side arms and with bloody daggers.

Orks consider any sufficiently sharp teeth to be usable as currency, not just their own. So to the Orks, the Tyranids are loot of a different sort, they're walking piles of money.

And what of the Tyranid killer cadre's tactics?

Ya you get teeth, but there wouldn't me much to spend it on. Would there?

That's a bit harder to think of because I'm not 100% on the differences between tau and imperial communications. What effect would the warp shadow have on the tau.

The orks can create their own technology, not all of it is looted after all, and the Mekboy needs to make a living doesn't he?

As for the Tau, I think it's conceivable that the Tyranids could evolve an organism that could disrupt non warp based communications via generating electromagnetic interference. After all it shouldn't take too much to adapt the bio-electricity of the trygons to disrupt vox links.

The orks woould loot the tyranids bodies. Use their carapaces for armor\ammunition, the arms would become the orks new cc weapons, and their meat would become food for the greentide. Bones just more weapons.

They orks have a use for everything. They use everything at their disposole. They may be alot of things but wastefull is not one of them/

Poor Chaos. Nobody loves us anymore. Always getting the short end of the stick.

Anyways, why do we even have these threads? "If all of X fought all of Y" always ends up with people getting butthurt and faction prejudice entering into it. Who cares?

For the sake of the topic though, I suppose every other race views the Tyranids just like the Imperium does. The Tyranids are a threat to everyone, what else is there to view?

Kain wrote:

nomotog wrote:

Kain wrote:

nomotog wrote:If I was an ork and I was fighting nids, I would be supremely frustrated. After the battle, there is not a lot to loot.

The topic of anti nids cadres came up before. I picture them carrying kroot rifles and bolters as side arms and with bloody daggers.

Orks consider any sufficiently sharp teeth to be usable as currency, not just their own. So to the Orks, the Tyranids are loot of a different sort, they're walking piles of money.

And what of the Tyranid killer cadre's tactics?

Ya you get teeth, but there wouldn't me much to spend it on. Would there?

That's a bit harder to think of because I'm not 100% on the differences between tau and imperial communications. What effect would the warp shadow have on the tau.

The orks can create their own technology, not all of it is looted after all, and the Mekboy needs to make a living doesn't he?

As for the Tau, I think it's conceivable that the Tyranids could evolve an organism that could disrupt non warp based communications via generating electromagnetic interference. After all it shouldn't take too much to adapt the bio-electricity of the trygons to disrupt vox links.

Still I think most of it is looted or made from looted parts. A mechboy is going to have a hard time making a shoota with no metal. Then again, they would be able to make some kind of weapon from nid parts. Maybe they are able to breed squigs with tyanids to get some kind of crazy sporemine squig. Willhman mentioned armor and chappas too. Try picturing it and tell me that's not a cool character.

I never would have thought of that. It's a cool idea. When it comes to tyranid/tau interaction I always think of the plot for that alien movie/game. I just picture the tau trying to control and enhance different tyranids. It wouldn't go well of course. These plans are never ment to work, but it would make a neat story.

For there shoota ammunition it would be small bones\spines of the tryranids.

For rockets it would be gaunts packed with explosives. Robotic parts would be just parts of the nids that would be from catnifaxes.

Shootin isnt the issue here, Orks are really bad at firing so they could just use rocks and they would still do more damage then they are now. Just as long as the get that nice recoul.

Though I do agree, an ork Boss with Tyranid armor would look like a real Boss!!!

I have to say, I am amazed that nobody's brought up a looted tyranid monstrous/gargantuan creature pic yet.

Edit: NEVER MIND I FOUND ONE



I've also read this person's fascinating article on his Tau Tyranid hunter Cadre. http://www.advancedtautactica.com/viewtopic.php?p=202087#p202087 Fanon it may be, but it is a good read.

nomotog wrote:If I was an ork and I was fighting nids, I would be supremely frustrated. After the battle, there is not a lot to loot.

Yea! Dem nids ain't got no dakka! But dey sure do 'av lotz o' teef!