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Hmmm...rumors and then fact that made me go OMG.

Simple one here, getting ready to grab my gamers edition pre order then BAM! GW pre empts me with the Ultimate Edition that comes with everything (even possibly a hand job from Jervis and Ward) all for the small price of my first born! (Roughly $300)

The Brrodlord/psychic powers thing seems intriguing to say the least, but here in Australia, the price tag is $124; that's probably got me going OMG, if nothing else.

That my necrons shall grow in power. All my lords with 2+ are safe from power weapons, my warscythes still cut through any armor like butter, warriors and gauss immortals now are even MORE shooty, momlith cant be one-shotted and praetorians will become useful!

If grenades are indeed throwable, and they seem to be...

20 Grots (including handlers) or boyz piling out of a BW with a Stikkbomb Chucka ...

That's a lot of grenades

Throwing grenades?.....BEAST!!! Come on then you ugly{{ *static*$ yarhhhh....

Chaos Combi-Plasma Terminators. Ok, lets drop in about 20 inches away. Assuming they don't change the squad sizes it would look something like this: 20 Str 7 Ap2 shots at 24 inches. Want to assault me with your power weapon wielding squad oh yeah they are bouncing off my armor now I swing back with my chainfists through the squad and murder you. Now just imagine: in the next few months they are getting a new codex and it is highly likely that they are going to get to take cult terminators again.

Fafnir wrote:For what it's worth, I've only been playing 40k since 5th edition. No rose tinted glasses here. Of course, perhaps I'm just spoiled by the work of Kelly (for what it's worth, I still believe the the entire Space Wolves codex is meant to be a satire of the over-the-topness that inhabits the 40k universe, rather than a serious attempt at anything in particular, fluff wise).

Additionally, I don't have much to say about the Necrons, since I hated their old fluff because it sucked, and I hate their new fluff because they're right back at being Tomb Kings IN SPACE. I don't care to look into the deeper parts of it, considering that I know that I'll dislike it no matter what. I think the Necrons and I have come to terms with the fact that we'll never like one another.

What army do you play? Is it Space marines? (knights...IN SPACE!) Eldar....(Elves....IN SPACE!) the old squats? (dwarves....IN SPACE!) Orks? (you guessed it...Orcs...IN SPACE!)

Ok course, its your opinion, which you invalidated by stating

I don't care to look into the deeper parts of it, considering that I know that I'll dislike it no matter what.

which is literally the cookie cutter of everything and everyone else. Have you even looked at tomb kings at all? (prior to reading my message atleast, be honest)

How about just asking "how about them rumours eh?" you perhaps post the rumours you are talking about or at least link to them so I don't have to wade through the whole internet to find them?

What stands out for me most is the probable power of fliers, particularly Doom Scythes in conjunction with snap fire (as they're unaffected by BS1).

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

curran12 wrote:Nothing.

Wanna know why?

Because I'm not getting wrapped up in hype until I see rulebooks in hands.

This cannot be said enough!

I don't really understand this attitude. Just because they're rumours, doesn't mean they cannot be accurate. Particularly at this stage when the info is coming from the rulebook or white dwarf...

So long as you apply some sense/logic, you can learn a helluva lot from rumours IMHO.

Ascalam wrote:Actually the only thing i find unforgivable is his constant need to make termies more and more difficult to kill

2+ 3++ was annoying enough

Then it was 2+, 3++ with FNP...

Then Gk...

Now power weapons bounce right off them too...

The updated rumor is that power weapons will be AP2.

SilverMK2 wrote:How about just asking "how about them rumours eh?" you perhaps post the rumours you are talking about or at least link to them so I don't have to wade through the whole internet to find them?

Go to Bell of Lost Souls (www.belloflostsouls.net) for the latest rumor roundups.

If it is true that sniper rifles rolling 6's to hit get to allocate that wound, that gives Eldar rangers another cool tricksy elf cheese move, since ranger long rifles that roll a 6 to hit become AP1.

I'm hearing that power swords are AP3 but grant a 5++ "parry" save in close combat, while power axes are AP2 but don't grant that save.

Ailaros wrote:
As for OMG-ness. the worst of them are the ones that debilitate hidden weapon upgrades. Being unable to hide weapons in a squad would fundamentally change the way some armies work. And by fundamentally, I mean make unplayable. Enjoy those berzerkers without the hidden fist, or those boyz without the hidden klaw or those guard blobs without the commissars or power weapons.

You can still have hidden weapons and sargents just make sure there's plenty of meat shields in front of them. Foot guard look to be a lot stronger in the new edition, with snap fire, rapid fire changes (plasma guns just got MUCH better) and Aegis defence lines.

Fafnir wrote:
Don't forget flamers. Put them at the front, and they die before they can shoot. Put them in the back, and they can't shoot at all.

That's just stupid. Flamers are entirely useable, and with the D3 snap shots they got a whole lot cooler and more effective.
But I forgot, you probably know more about game design than the most successful tabletop wargame makers of all time

Ailaros wrote:

Andilus Greatsword wrote:I've been reading the rumours and I think over the last week they finally began getting accurate

How can you possibly know that the rumors are getting more accurate?

Just Dave wrote:I don't really understand this attitude. Just because they're rumours, doesn't mean they cannot be accurate. Particularly at this stage when the info is coming from the rulebook or white dwarf...

So long as you apply some sense/logic, you can learn a helluva lot from rumours IMHO.

Exactly, even a month ago we were basically going off of what so-and-so heard from his friend who is totally Matt Ward and getting some ridiculously over the top rules which, had they been true, would have made me stick with 5th ed.

Actually, Ailaros' comment about special weapons reminds me of another realization I had. Positioning is more important this edition, kind of like Fantasy. Since wound allocation is apparently closest to furthest, mobile armies able to get into the flanks or rear of a squad will be able to kill the targets that they would otherwise have tried to protect by keeping them there.

Basimpo wrote:


What army do you play? Is it Space marines? (knights...IN SPACE!) Eldar....(Elves....IN SPACE!) the old squats? (dwarves....IN SPACE!) Orks? (you guessed it...Orcs...IN SPACE!)

Inquisition, Gaurd, and Orkz.

But that said, up until recently, GW's been trying to make movements to separate their armies from the IN SPACE image. Even Necrons were originally just Tomb Kings IN SPACE until their 3rd edition codex which, bad as it was, attempted to make them something a little different.

The important thing to note is that most of GW's other armies, despite having roots in Fantasy, manage to develop their own distinct identities. Necrons, I feel, have not, and perhaps have even gone backward in such a movement, to a similar degree to that of Squats, which were removed from the game for that reason.

Ok course, its your opinion, which you invalidated by stating

I don't care to look into the deeper parts of it, considering that I know that I'll dislike it no matter what.

which is literally the cookie cutter of everything and everyone else. Have you even looked at tomb kings at all? (prior to reading my message atleast, be honest)

Nope. Not particularly interested in Tomb Kings or Necrons. I know some of the light fluff. I read the rumours of the rules and fluff for the new Necrons codex, and was not happy with it (despite disliking the old codex in the first place) (and from what I know about the tomb kings, it sounds awfully similar...). I feel there is no need to delve any deeper.

Well looking at the rules gleaned from the newest white dwarf the necrons will be laughing all the way home. Being able to move and shoot their full range with rapid fire weapons, glances taking hull points off vehicles and gauss still working like it used to. lets not forget the stand and shoot thing which might not seem like much but just adds more shooting to an already shooty army that needs to be assaulted to win effectively against unless you can out range them.

Orks look like they will get slaughtered between the new mobility of rapid firing other races, the weakened vehicles and then casualties being take off the front keeping them from the action even longer...

Deadlytoaster wrote:Well looking at the rules gleaned from the newest white dwarf the necrons will be laughing all the way home. Being able to move and shoot their full range with rapid fire weapons, glances taking hull points off vehicles and gauss still working like it used to. lets not forget the stand and shoot thing which might not seem like much but just adds more shooting to an already shooty army that needs to be assaulted to win effectively against unless you can out range them.

Ranged weapons in the necron codex with over 24" range:
Tremorstave
Eldritch lance
Harp of Dissonance
Stationary Doomsday Cannon
Heavy Gauss Cannon
Tachyon Arrow

What of that are you likely to see a decent amount of:
Tremorstave
Eldritch Lance

Outranging Necrons isn't as difficult as it sounds.

Exalted Pariah wrote:That my necrons shall grow in power. All my lords with 2+ are safe from power weapons, my warscythes still cut through any armor like butter, warriors and gauss immortals now are even MORE shooty, momlith cant be one-shotted and praetorians will become useful!

At least your not a gloating powergamer...

Flavius Infernus wrote:
If it is true that sniper rifles rolling 6's to hit get to allocate that wound, that gives Eldar rangers another cool tricksy elf cheese move, since ranger long rifles that roll a 6 to hit become AP1.

Not specifically in regards to eldar, but I think its cool in that if you get a squad full of snipers (rangers, ratlings, scouts, what have you) charged by the enemy, your snapfire will allow you to select the targets you want to hit. With eldar (if they become AP1) its sounding like its almost worth throwing rangers way forwards, small units of them, because you'll get 1 or 2 hits on overwatch, allocate them to the PW/melta/psycannon/warding stave/whatever, and watch a suddenly far scarier squad advance on the rest of your army.

Somebody please tell me that psychic powers aren't randomly generated like in fantasy.

Can't think of any particular unit, but what about using a GK librarian to cast hammer hand on a Space Marine tactical squad (assuming this will be possible)?

I belive they are simply chosen. Each Psyker gets a number of powers of choice from the generic list.

What I don't know is if they are inaddition to, or instead of, your normal Codex powers.

I'm excited I'll actually be able to play out the khornate knights scenario!

Not that this combo ranks up there with the really craziness of the new ally rules, but this one appears very easy to pull off.

Eldar/DE

Eldrad/Vect: Put them with whatever unit for an assault tarpit: you get one with a 2+ reroll and another with a 3+ reroll.

If tyranids can ally with themselves, thats 6 or 7 tervigons.

This is probably going to be nixed in the book or FAQ'd away but... If allies they're treated as a single army, then any army wide hq effect has to be considered in a new light; but if they're two seperate armies, then ally with the same faction and double your access to uniques... Gk ally with gk for 2 coteaz and 2 vindicare etc...

I think you can't ally with yourself.

Aww, but I want my double Anraykr-on-Command-barge zooming around the battlefield (complete with 20 Eternals in tow)

they way I understood it is that any vehicle can still be one-shotted by receiving a pen and an explodes result.. hull points are not structure points, they're just another way for a vehicle to get destroyed

Deadlytoaster wrote:Orks look like they will get slaughtered between the new mobility of rapid firing other races, the weakened vehicles and then casualties being take off the front keeping them from the action even longer...

It's not like Ork vehicles were fantastically sturdy anyway. On the other hand, they have a problem with taking down vehicles themselves, so the Hull Points system may work to their advantage. Then Stormboyz become more viable, charge ranges potentially become greater, and power weapons may not cut through FNP or Mega-Armor anymore while PKs work just like always... Don't write them off just yet.

Grey Templar wrote:What I don't know is if they are inaddition to, or instead of, your normal Codex powers.

Instead of, I think.

Reasons to dislike ward mmmmmmmm
We should start a thread or threads.
I will gladly write the one on the hatchet job he did on my beloved Sisters.
You want to talk about imbalance just compare GK to sisters and tell me some Sisters player didn't hand him his a** sometime in the past.
Point blank it seems obvious that if Fantasy is the template most rule changes will have been vetted on benefits to selling products not improving playability.
My 2 cents!

Oh look, another Ward hater. We've had several "I hate Matt Ward" Butthurt threads thanks, I don't think we need another. Sisters got a nerf. I think every 'Nid player would like a word with you. as for GK, we'll get ours.

Back OT, throwable grenades? All of my yes.