Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Are Deathwing Terminator armies now forced to deploy half their Terminators now because of the restrictive 50% reserve rule?

For example, if I'm fielding 32 Deathwing Terminators as my whole army, can I still keep all in reserve and teleport them in (Deathwing assaulting half on my first turn)?

greg0985 wrote:At first when i saw that power swords are just AP3 and dont have that rumored "parry" special rule, i felt nothing but the proverbial RAAAAGGGGEEEE of Khorne (especially since i just finished painting 60 g*d* bloodletters and a dozen blood crushers).

After sleeping on that however, i've come to terms with it. It looks like 6E actually goes some way to help balance a Chaos Daemons list. Overall, i think i've gained more then i lost.

I can now enter play a bit safer (1/6 chance of mishap causing a lost unit)
I can Vector Strike with by 'Thirsters and Princes
I can move much faster with several units
I can Smash vehicles with my MCs and take them out without having to purchase Unholy Strength

and....i cant see U'zuhl Skulltaker EVER loosing a Challenge....ever.

In the end, i think 6E will be a refreshing change-of-pace.

You forgot you can take inv saves on DT checks, DP's can hit at S10, nurgle troops are able to move fully and charge, slaanesh troops get +1 on the penning chart, the defensive nades of slaanesh/nurgle troops within 8" can give them extra cover saves, plague weapons now deal appropriate toughness damage (S4 vs T3 is 3+ with rerolls!) Flamers now absolutely Break Vehicles in range, and can break near everything that attempts to charge them (D3 for each one that ignores armor and hits on 4+? Yeah send that TEQ at it!) whole army has fear, screamers now have a better chance at hitting vehicles with either it being autohit or 3+..

..The only thing that didn't change is furies, they still suck.

If you want to play footguard, you basically need to buy an aegis defense line.

If you start second, and the board lacks cover, you'll need to either reserve or get defense lines to give you the much needed cover. Otherwise, the enemy will alpha the heck out of you with 30" range AP 5 weapons.

I'm rather upset about the changes to Fleet, I feel that not only has it been nerfed into the ground, but so has my 80% melee Tyranid list. Unless we were reading the rules wrong, Raiders and especially Ravagers feel as though they've taken a hit (can only move six inches and fire everything, the being fast vehicle only accounts for extra movement if moving is the main priority seems silly). Dark Lances feel much better (my eight or so glances per turn against my IG friend FINALLY do something other than just roll ones every freaking time). Fliers seem brutally effective and fun, I found the Voidraven to be amazing in my game last night, more than made up its points without even firing a single missile. Scourges seem to be pretty well off too, which is awesome because I love them flavor and model wise, but not awesome because the models are a pain in the butt! One of my favorite units seems to be just as deadly as ever, Duke Sliscus in a Raider with Splinter Cannon/Shardcarbine Trueborn.

Also, melee certainly seems weaker, but I haven't actually tried a whole let yet.

Any Dark Eldar players able to tell me how my beloved Incubi/Bloodbrides/Archon with Huskblade/Lelith are doing in this edition? I didn't get the time to try them in the games I've played.

Fleet still works, its just charge is more chance based, and you can't guarantee 6" charge.

Consider this: in 5th ed, fleet gave an average assault range of 9 or 10 inches, since a d6 average is 3 or 4 (ignoring beast/cavalry here).

In 6th ed, fleet allows ANY charge dice to be re-rolled. The average 2d6 roll is 7, I can't math today, but I'm pretty sure allowing to reroll brings that average to about 9 or 10 inches.

Shadelkan wrote:Fleet still works, its just charge is more chance based, and you can't guarantee 6" charge.

Consider this: in 5th ed, fleet gave an average assault range of 9 or 10 inches, since a d6 average is 3 or 4 (ignoring beast/cavalry here).

In 6th ed, fleet allows ANY charge dice to be re-rolled. The average 2d6 roll is 7, I can't math today, but I'm pretty sure allowing to reroll brings that average to about 9 or 10 inches.

I suppose so, that's an interesting point. I still don't like random charge, and I know I'm not the only one who feels that way, but maybe Fleet isn't as bad as I thought. Until I roll nothing but ones!

Assuming average rolls:
In 5th edition fleet gave someone a 50% chance at a 10+" charge
4+" + 6".

In 6th there is a about a 34% chance at a 10+" charge with fleet.
4/21 chance of 10+ with reroll= ~34%

However, the chance at 9+" chance sits at about 51%
6/21 with reroll. So all in all, fleet has taken only a slight nerf.

The Fragile Breath wrote:I'm rather upset about the changes to Fleet, I feel that not only has it been nerfed into the ground, but so has my 80% melee Tyranid list. Unless we were reading the rules wrong, Raiders and especially Ravagers feel as though they've taken a hit (can only move six inches and fire everything, the being fast vehicle only accounts for extra movement if moving is the main priority seems silly). Dark Lances feel much better (my eight or so glances per turn against my IG friend FINALLY do something other than just roll ones every freaking time). Fliers seem brutally effective and fun, I found the Voidraven to be amazing in my game last night, more than made up its points without even firing a single missile. Scourges seem to be pretty well off too, which is awesome because I love them flavor and model wise, but not awesome because the models are a pain in the butt! One of my favorite units seems to be just as deadly as ever, Duke Sliscus in a Raider with Splinter Cannon/Shardcarbine Trueborn.

Also, melee certainly seems weaker, but I haven't actually tried a whole let yet.

Any Dark Eldar players able to tell me how my beloved Incubi/Bloodbrides/Archon with Huskblade/Lelith are doing in this edition? I didn't get the time to try them in the games I've played.

Ravagers retain Aerial Assault meaning they can move 12" and can fire all their weapons at full BS.
Other fast vehicles can fire 2 at cruising speed, the remainder as snapshots.

The aircraft lose it for no particular reason!
They also don't have hover mode!

Leading to further confusion on my part as to why the Space Marine flyer is cheaper, better armoured, has a hover mode, that gives it +1 BS, etc. But that's another rant alltogether.

I have a feeling footslogger IG will get a bit more buffed, with more ML troops, most likely.

Ovion wrote:

Ravagers retain Aerial Assault meaning they can move 12" and can fire all their weapons at full BS.
Other fast vehicles can fire 2 at cruising speed, the remainder as snapshots.

The aircraft lose it for no particular reason!
They also don't have hover mode!

Leading to further confusion on my part as to why the Space Marine flyer is cheaper, better armoured, has a hover mode, that gives it +1 BS, etc. But that's another rant alltogether.

Oh, my mistake! I thought that all Dark Eldar vehicles lost Aerial Assault, not just the aircraft. It's very silly that our aircraft lost it, but I'm happy at least that our Ravagers didn't take that hit. Because I'm unclear on the rules and don't have the book on hand yet, can Raiders only move six inches and allow their crew to all fire (a Warrior gunboat Raider, etc).

Ovion wrote:

The Fragile Breath wrote:I'm rather upset about the changes to Fleet, I feel that not only has it been nerfed into the ground, but so has my 80% melee Tyranid list. Unless we were reading the rules wrong, Raiders and especially Ravagers feel as though they've taken a hit (can only move six inches and fire everything, the being fast vehicle only accounts for extra movement if moving is the main priority seems silly). Dark Lances feel much better (my eight or so glances per turn against my IG friend FINALLY do something other than just roll ones every freaking time). Fliers seem brutally effective and fun, I found the Voidraven to be amazing in my game last night, more than made up its points without even firing a single missile. Scourges seem to be pretty well off too, which is awesome because I love them flavor and model wise, but not awesome because the models are a pain in the butt! One of my favorite units seems to be just as deadly as ever, Duke Sliscus in a Raider with Splinter Cannon/Shardcarbine Trueborn.

Also, melee certainly seems weaker, but I haven't actually tried a whole let yet.

Any Dark Eldar players able to tell me how my beloved Incubi/Bloodbrides/Archon with Huskblade/Lelith are doing in this edition? I didn't get the time to try them in the games I've played.

Ravagers retain Aerial Assault meaning they can move 12" and can fire all their weapons at full BS.
Other fast vehicles can fire 2 at cruising speed, the remainder as snapshots.

The aircraft lose it for no particular reason!
They also don't have hover mode!

Leading to further confusion on my part as to why the Space Marine flyer is cheaper, better armoured, has a hover mode, that gives it +1 BS, etc. But that's another rant alltogether.

The Fragile Breath wrote:

Ovion wrote:

Ravagers retain Aerial Assault meaning they can move 12" and can fire all their weapons at full BS.
Other fast vehicles can fire 2 at cruising speed, the remainder as snapshots.

The aircraft lose it for no particular reason!
They also don't have hover mode!

Leading to further confusion on my part as to why the Space Marine flyer is cheaper, better armoured, has a hover mode, that gives it +1 BS, etc. But that's another rant alltogether.

Oh, my mistake! I thought that all Dark Eldar vehicles lost Aerial Assault, not just the aircraft. It's very silly that our aircraft lost it, but I'm happy at least that our Ravagers didn't take that hit. Because I'm unclear on the rules and don't have the book on hand yet, can Raiders only move six inches and allow their crew to all fire (a Warrior gunboat Raider, etc).

You two clearly do not have the rulebook. For Flyers, Combat Speed is 18" and Cruising Speed is 36". They cannot be assaulted and can only be hit by shooting weapons on 6s (unless the shooting weapon has the skyfire rule). As for the Voidraven, this means that you can drop the Void Mine and then shoot more weapons, though dropping the bomb counts as using a weapon. You can also only shoot two missiles per shooting phase, so no more unloading your entire payload in a single phase.

Eldar and DE jetbikes can now move 48" in total. They also always have a 5+ cover save, or 4+ if they move Flat Out. So do Skimmers.

I do infact have the rulebook.
Had it since last wednesday.

Infact, I fail to see how my comment leads you to think I don't.
I pointed out that Ravagers still have aerial assault, then went on a minirant at how the razorwing/voidraven lose it + how the spacemarines somehow get a tougher, better armed, more accurate jet that can behave as a skimmer as well, for less points.

Necrons got a huge buff IMO.

Gauss weapons are now insanely good at glancing vehicles to death.
Warscythes are AP 1 and gain +2 on the Damage table.
The Haywire gun is now useful as well.
The Night Scythe doesn't actually count as having its transport unit inside it, so if it crashes the unit it's transporting takes no S10 hits.
Mindshackle scarabs + challenges = good.

Mech Eldar has been nerfed into complete unplayability (as has footdar). T3 models with bad armor and reduced cover simply cannot spend a turn standing out in the open getting shot up by buffed Rapid-Fire, just to take another round of firing from Overwatch the following turn.

Oh and GW decided that Eldar fast skimmers of all kinds - regardless as to the speed they're moving - should have their back armor hittable in CC on a 3+. Wave Serpents went from decent to such utter craptastic nonsense. They suck at delivering CC units and suck at surviving, all for the point cost of four Rhinos!

Tyranid Things with Wings army got a MASSIVE buff, what with Hammer of Wrath and Flying Monstrous Creatures. Zoanthrope Psychic Choir got buffed as well.

Hormagaunts aren't as fast any more but are much nastier in assault outside of Synapse.

Deathleaper got whacked by the Nerfbat and is now sulking in the corner.

We had a brief read over of rules that effected units we usually play last night, and since I play Eldar and Slaanesh Daemons, the fleet rules change is pretty huge to me.

A friend ran the math on old fleet vs new fleet. New fleet charging is 8% worse chance ot making it to the assault. But in the case of Harlequins who always got a 6" assault for ignoring difficult terrain it is much worse.

You now have to plan what you are going to assault in the movement phase, rather than fleeting in the shooting phase and then figuring it out. The new way is less versatile.

The Shadowseer Veil of Tears change means Harlequins will get shot at a lot more. No longer does it provide a better night fighting roll, but a much improved cover save. I foresee my Harlequins getting hit with more fire that ignores cover early.

With the allies rules though, there is going to be some pretty cheesy breakage. We immediately thought of at least 5 last night, more will need to be explored.

Small points games testing to be done soon.

Shadowseer_Kim wrote:We had a brief read over of rules that effected units we usually play last night, and since I play Eldar and Slaanesh Daemons, the fleet rules change is pretty huge to me.

A friend ran the math on old fleet vs new fleet. New fleet charging is 8% worse chance ot making it to the assault. But in the case of Harlequins who always got a 6" assault for ignoring difficult terrain it is much worse.

You now have to plan what you are going to assault in the movement phase, rather than fleeting in the shooting phase and then figuring it out. The new way is less versatile.

The Shadowseer Veil of Tears change means Harlequins will get shot at a lot more. No longer does it provide a better night fighting roll, but a much improved cover save. I foresee my Harlequins getting hit with more fire that ignores cover early.

With the allies rules though, there is going to be some pretty cheesy breakage. We immediately thought of at least 5 last night, more will need to be explored.

Small points games testing to be done soon.

Read the FAQ regarding what sentences the new rules replace and you'll see that the old Veil is still there along with the new powers

DeathwingCrusader wrote:Are Deathwing Terminator armies now forced to deploy half their Terminators now because of the restrictive 50% reserve rule?

For example, if I'm fielding 32 Deathwing Terminators as my whole army, can I still keep all in reserve and teleport them in (Deathwing assaulting half on my first turn)?

If you ellect to use DW assault then you must enter by DS reserve, if so you ignore the restriction on how many units can be put into reserve (page 36).


Deathwing Pro's

* Near universal nerf to PW
* Coming in from reserve is easier
* Universal 2+ saves
* cheap and cheerful HQ (belial)
* even more termies in 2k+
* No more Fearless wounds

Cons:
* FNP now 5+ is slight nerft to one unit in a DW army, so not so bad
* overwatch can really hurt us, this is mainly due to very small units, but this is nothing new
* Land raiders while still "ok" are even less durable now, this sucks lol

to be fair DW have recieved a whole lota buffs and are not really going to suffer from the new edition, when we get a new dex with a bit of luck we can actually start getting some decent low AP guns
*

mercury14 wrote:
Read the FAQ regarding what sentences the new rules replace and you'll see that the old Veil is still there along with the new powers

Ah.. Fantastic!! I still love Harlequins.

Shadowseer_Kim wrote:

Ah.. Fantastic!! I still love Harlequins.

That's what it says. But you wonder if GW in their sloppiness meant to say 'paragraphs' instead of sentences. If the cover buffs are meant to replace the 2d6 tears power then we can just throw our Harlies on the shelf until the next codex. Along with 75% of the rest of our models TBH.

My Skulltaker on a Chariot just got stupidly good. 2+ save, still got 5 attacks and 4 wounds and moves like a vehicle.

Triarch Praetorians got a massive buff, so did all Necron Warrior armies.

Blood Angels got lots of new fun things, plus Vanguard being able to charge 12" after deep strike.

Space Wolves are now easily the most OP army for me, they keep all the silly Runic Weapons, Long Fangs got even more better and Mark of the Wulfen is rending so thats AP2 in combat. Frost Axes are now +2 strength but I1. Thunderwolves still have Fleet but move 12" so they're even faster.

Tau got quite a buff for Fire Warriors but Crisis Suits got nerfed I believe.

GK are still pretty good. Force Weapons are special which is nice and Blind Grenades giving an automatic 6+ cover isn't fantastic but helpful.

Sniper Vets are great, allocating wounds, Snare Mines give a basic 6+ cover, which Camo Cloaks boost to 5+, and thats just in open ground??!!? Plasma Cannon Sentinels and Leman Russ' now Get Hot.

Ovion wrote:I do infact have the rulebook.
Had it since last wednesday.

Infact, I fail to see how my comment leads you to think I don't.
I pointed out that Ravagers still have aerial assault, then went on a minirant at how the razorwing/voidraven lose it + how the spacemarines somehow get a tougher, better armed, more accurate jet that can behave as a skimmer as well, for less points.

Because it appeared as though you were worried that our flyer was unable to shoot as well as it did before. It does better than before, but as you pointed out, is no better in terms of speed+accuracy than, say... Space Marines. For some reason. Who are in fact better. For no discernable reason.

As you said, separate matter.

As far as other things:
I think the Duke in a Raider with 9 warriors might be neat. Give the Raider Splinter Racks and now that Raider can move and fire 12" and fire 24" with rerolls on your BS1.
...
Or I could just get a venom and move the same speed for less cost, more shots, and better accuracy. GOD why didn't they change the wording on Splinter Racks?

The Baron actually deploying WITH Hellions would be all right. S4 hits on the charge (S5 with the right drugs or FA, S6 with both) at I10, then the rest of the attacks. All of that following 2 Poison shots per model during the shooting phase. So about 5 MEqs that turn. Of course, you'll just be rapid fired to death afterwards, same as now...

Reavers are a bit better with the impact hits if they charge (worse due to snapfire) better with the change to mixed T values, blade vanes are better vs GEqs. Reavers are better against normal shooting (jink) but nerfed when going flat out.

Other eldar Jetbikes got a nice boost to their flat out move, and Seercouncils especially will need S8+ to instakill them. They took a nerf to their jink save, but can move faster. The Impact attacks will make Seer Councils quite rough, though significantly less so now that Witchblades are no longer S9 against vehicles. Just ASSAULTING a LR with Jetbikes could have cause a destroyed result before blows were even struck. That's power. Still, I expect the reasons to NOT take JBSC are much weaker than before.

Dark Lances got better with Hullpoints and Poison got better too, since more people will be on the field after their cans go.

WWP lists may not even exist. In 5e they were something people would kick around to shake things up or to discuss the viability of. They could be competitive depending on your meta. Now they may as well have removed them from the book (like they did with Target Locks on Tau. Yeah, thanks for that...) Without the ability to assault from them, they serve no purpose that you couldn't have had by starting on the board to start with. Even footslogging Darklances can move and snapfire.

Wyches. Oof, where to start? PW only hurt marines, but don't negate their FNP. Nerf. (Okay, so I never charged many Termies anyway, but that's not the point. Now it isn't even an option) FNP got changed so that PW do not negate it. Buff. Only ID negates it. No change: the number of models that had S6 but weren't PW is very small. The number of AP1-2 ranged weapons that were S5 or less is even smaller. The ID change to FNP is a buff to Marines and no one else, pure and simple. Snapfire being used as a charge reaction: Nerf. Multiple charges allowing no bonus charge attack and snapfire from both units getting charged: Nerf and Nerf. Random Charge range: Nerf. Fleet of foot: Nerf (No running and charging, GW? Really?) Assault from open topped vehicles: Not sure if this is a nerf or a buff. Entirely possible that the additional deployment distance from a vehicle plus the random assault range is actually an overall buff to assault range, if not assault power. Will reserve judgement until I know for sure. Changes to assaulting vehicles, vehicle rules, and hullpoints improving Haywire grenades: BIIIG buff! However, there are likely FAR more cost effective ways to pop the fewer vehicles we are likely to see on the field than sending Wyches at them. The afore mentioned WWP/assault situation? Nerf.
Overall: Wyches nerfed hard.

Grotesques: Wow. Buffed a bit, actually. FNP is there unless you railgun them. Snapfire affects them quite a bit less due to their high toughness. They are more likely to lose their armor save in CC due to their 6+ save, so that's a nerf. FNP is only 5+, so slight nerf, but still a gain as mentioned before.

Incubi: Nerfed for the same reasons as Wyches, insultingly so due to their having a 3+save. When PW worked against all armor, it was no big deal, but against 3+ only, that's just mean. :laughs: However: the once rarely taken Klaivex gets a substantial lease on life as he is our ONLY access to AP2 CCW! YAY! And at S5 base! YAY! AND at Initiative! Holy crap! So, the unit itself takes a poke due to the CC rules mentioned in the Wych section, but gets buffed by their unit commander gaining the ability to issue challenges, and being rather deadly to his foes when he does. Overall: Buff. It'll take more points to get what you need out of it, but you'll likely save those points from not taking an Archon.

Haemonculus: Minor nerf. FNP. Nuff said. (S)He won't be an auto include with Wyches anymore, as Wyches are unlikely to be taken as much. Since there are no other real benefits for these guys apart from the needed HQ slot, expect a single Haemi taken with fun wargear just for support, to save points elsewhere.

Succubus: Seriously?

Archon: The Clonefield is a better piece of kit to take now, though the Shadowfield is still probably the better deal. Husk Blade may be better due to Challenge, but is worse due to PW nerf.

Razorwing: It's a flyer. It'll be fine. With the vehicle nerf, we wont NEED to take 23+ lances, so the Razorwing won't lose us anything by taking it over a Ravager, and the increased survivability will keep 2 lances on the board after your Ravagers have been destroyed.

The Dias of Destruction: Still a vehicle. Still overcosted. Still has all of the pitfalls of being a vehicle with none of the advantages of being a Raider.

Trueborn and Warrior squads appear the same as before. Where once you could be competitive with suboptimal builds (taking archons, Incubi, Wyches, large warrior squads instead of 5 man warriors in a venom x6) you now seem to be shoehorned into taking only those competitive options. Nearly 50% of the book is CC options, and the vast, unrelenting majority of those are terrible. The gap between what was good and what was bad has increased, removing all middle of the ground, really. I'm upset more for my loss of options than I am the total loss of my book. I can say "Well, at least I can fall back on that," but damn. That's still a hell of a loss.


One last thing: Tau Target Locks.

Really GW? REALLY?!? I kind of understand WWP. You want assaults to NEVER come from reserve EVER. I get it. Okay. At least it's consistant. But then you take away Target Locks. So now Tau can't split fire, but SW still can? You are really effing serious about this? Oh, and also, you screwed up the DE FAQ. Under TGL on the first page you said "Change 'Morale check' to 'Leadership Check.'" Then on pg3 you said "Change this to read "morale check..."" Yeah. Great work.

What does stealth do now? My friend tried to explain.it earlier over the phone but it wasn't clear.

mercury14 wrote:

Shadowseer_Kim wrote:The Shadowseer Veil of Tears change means Harlequins will get shot at a lot more. No longer does it provide a better night fighting roll, but a much improved cover save. I foresee my Harlequins getting hit with more fire that ignores cover early.

Read the FAQ regarding what sentences the new rules replace and you'll see that the old Veil is still there along with the new powers

Couldnt quite believe this when I read it, had to go running back to my codex and check the sentences refered to; then check it again; then having a little lie down in a darkened room and coming back to check it again I assumed when I first read the FAQ that the old mechanic was being replaced by the new stealth/shrouded rules, but it does indeed augment it - cant be shot intentionally more than 24" away, 3-point better cover save when actually in range...cool. Most cool.

Mr. Self Destruct wrote:Necrons got a huge buff IMO.

Gauss weapons are now insanely good at glancing vehicles to death.
Warscythes are AP 1 and gain +2 on the Damage table.
The Haywire gun is now useful as well.
The Night Scythe doesn't actually count as having its transport unit inside it, so if it crashes the unit it's transporting takes no S10 hits.
Mindshackle scarabs + challenges = good.

The haywire gun is strait up broke almost. I don't believe any gun has a good of chance as wrecking vehicles now, the only saving grace is its short range.

Incubus: Elite slot however, I'd rather take another blasterborn or the buffed harlequins(If we can use the Eldar FAQ :( ) than an assault unit that is, quite honestly, overpriced for what it can do now. Personally, I'd consider it a slight-nerf.

Nagashek wrote: Assault from open topped vehicles: Not sure if this is a nerf or a buff. Entirely possible that the additional deployment distance from a vehicle plus the random assault range is actually an overall buff to assault range

Assault from open-topped was available in 5th ed, and here's the number provided by other DE players...

5th ed: 12"(raider cruising speed) + 2"(disembark distance) + D6"(run) + 6"(assault) = 21" - 26"

6th ed: 6"(raider) + 6" (disembark) + 2D6"(assault) = 14" - 24"

Both the chance to fail, and the overall distance got nerfed. And then you can add being shot at from overwatch to the equation to properly stress how these all nerfed wyches hard. On the other hand, HWG on vehicles! But I'd personally rather bring another DL or 2 in that slot.

Also, you forgot beastmaster: 12" move, 2D6" assault(no fleet), ignore terrain(still takes the I1 penalty if not attached to Baron). Slight buff, they can now move at the same speed as Baron.

Baronyu wrote:Incubus: Elite slot however, I'd rather take another blasterborn or the buffed harlequins(If we can use the Eldar FAQ :( ) than an assault unit that is, quite honestly, overpriced for what it can do now. Personally, I'd consider it a slight-nerf.

Nagashek wrote: Assault from open topped vehicles: Not sure if this is a nerf or a buff. Entirely possible that the additional deployment distance from a vehicle plus the random assault range is actually an overall buff to assault range

Assault from open-topped was available in 5th ed, and here's the number provided by other DE players...

5th ed: 12"(raider cruising speed) + 2"(disembark distance) + D6"(run) + 6"(assault) = 21" - 26"

6th ed: 6"(raider) + 6" (disembark) + 2D6"(assault) = 14" - 24"

:wince:

Also, you forgot beastmaster: 12" move, 2D6" assault(no fleet), ignore terrain(still takes the I1 penalty if not attached to Baron). Slight buff, they can now move at the same speed as Baron.

I didn't forget, I just never used them, or even theoried them that much, so I didn't feel qualified enough to comment. Same with the Court, but I expect that it hasn't changed anything towards the better.

Well, most of us are still on the "theory" stage on 6th ed anyway, I don't see why not? I've never used incubi either, couldn't see a reason to, and even less so with 6th ed changes...

I've always liked the beastmaster unit, so I was so glad that beast unit got buffed. 4+ cover save being less common does hurt, but I could live with that, may be.

I forgot to add something to the list of Wych nerfs: Hypex is the first drug rolled on the chart. It allows you to roll 3d6 when making Run moves and pick the highest result. Now that you can not Run and Charge with Fleet, this makes certain that the Consolation Prize of the Combat Drugs list is now the rock in the bottom of Charlie Brown's candy bag. Alas! If only it was even that useful! That rock could be used as a weapon. This rock means you can... get away from combat faster. Or chase someone down who... I guess... wouldn't just shoot you to death instead.

phantommaster wrote:My Skulltaker on a Chariot just got stupidly good. 2+ save, still got 5 attacks and 4 wounds and moves like a vehicle.

Triarch Praetorians got a massive buff, so did all Necron Warrior armies.

Blood Angels got lots of new fun things, plus Vanguard being able to charge 12" after deep strike.

Space Wolves are now easily the most OP army for me, they keep all the silly Runic Weapons, Long Fangs got even more better and Mark of the Wulfen is rending so thats AP2 in combat. Frost Axes are now +2 strength but I1. Thunderwolves still have Fleet but move 12" so they're even faster.

Tau got quite a buff for Fire Warriors but Crisis Suits got nerfed I believe.

GK are still pretty good. Force Weapons are special which is nice and Blind Grenades giving an automatic 6+ cover isn't fantastic but helpful.

Sniper Vets are great, allocating wounds, Snare Mines give a basic 6+ cover, which Camo Cloaks boost to 5+, and thats just in open ground??!!? Plasma Cannon Sentinels and Leman Russ' now Get Hot.

,

I really hate to break it to you man... Deamon chariots.... are not... chariots!!! its a vehicle type and the deamon ones are not vehicles... stupid aint it