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Exergy wrote:DE WWP, cannot assault out of the portal, makes the list useless

IMO it reversed it because rapid fire weapons aren't hands-down inferior anymore. Instead of dumping assault units out of the portals, dump big blocks of warriors into rapid-fire range. Infantry got a lot more valuable IMO.


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Kaldor wrote:

Buttons wrote:Sounds like Plasma vets are much better now. They may be expensive, but 3 str 6 and 3 str 7 shots on the move in an AV 12 platform is terrifying to everything. Plus you can now fire 6 str 7, 3 str 6, 3 str 5, 3 str 4, and 4 str 3 shots if it doesn't move and you add a heavy stubber. Gets even worse when your army includes 4-6 squads of plasma vets, possibly with storm troopers tossed in.

Yep. Everyone is moaning that hull points make vehicles too fragile, but facing off against multiple Chimera mounted Veteran squads is going to be a nightmare. Gone are the days of just glancing them, and then ignoring them for the rest of the turn.

Honestly, I like this system much better.


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Deadshot wrote:Draigowing got a major hit. Their prefered tactic was to load a Libby and Pallies in a Raven and zoom them on, and keep everything in reserve to avoid shooting. Now at least 50% must start onboard. Not only that but wound Allocation has gone down the drain and everyone has a save against their powers. I don't even know what has happened to their Force Weapons yet.

Actually, Paladins are listed as infantry characters, meaning each of them get's a 4+ Look Out Sir roll which, if passed, allows them to place the wound on any model they choose within 6".

Wound allocation isn't the same, but it's still there. Better in some aspects, worse in others.

I like the new system much better too. Especially for vehicles. Glances are less dangerous in ones and twos if you don't follow up and finish the vehicle off, but can reliably wreck vehicles when you do. It makes individual vehicles less durable, but makes them overall more reliable if you field vehicles in number.

As for wound allocation, if you're in an area where gimmick characters are common, snipers will become likewise common to counter them. Makes lynch pin armies like Draigowing more risky, which is how it should be seeing as how Draigowing and the like are no fun to play against for some armies/players.


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Mr. Self Destruct wrote:Necrons got a huge buff IMO.

Gauss weapons are now insanely good at glancing vehicles to death.
Warscythes are AP 1 and gain +2 on the Damage table.
The Haywire gun is now useful as well.
The Night Scythe doesn't actually count as having its transport unit inside it, so if it crashes the unit it's transporting takes no S10 hits.
Mindshackle scarabs + challenges = good.

Nightscythe doesn't have hover, and Invasion beam doesn't say anything about letting units embark so the vehicle is for dropping off only. I found that to be interesting. So if you want to transport a unit of necrons that have already been deployed across the able quickly, you need a monolith already in position.

Also, I find it to be an interesting limitation that the Deathscythe can't fire the death ray the round after it evades.

All in all, I think the DE have better flyers hands down, but necron flyers can still pile on the hurt.

Nagashek wrote:One last thing: Tau Target Locks.

Really GW? REALLY?!? I kind of understand WWP. You want assaults to NEVER come from reserve EVER. I get it. Okay. At least it's consistant. But then you take away Target Locks. So now Tau can't split fire, but SW still can? You are really effing serious about this? Oh, and also, you screwed up the DE FAQ. Under TGL on the first page you said "Change 'Morale check' to 'Leadership Check.'" Then on pg3 you said "Change this to read "morale check..."" Yeah. Great work.

Yes it sucks that we no longer have Target Locks, so you don't field as much Death Rains but more Fire Knives. Since you don't need to roll results for glances anymore, our Plasma can hurt Light Armor yes it is a 1/6 chance against Armor 12 but that is still a chance to do it. and we get 2 points to spend somewhere else for picking up a Blacksun Filter instead of the Target Locks. All that means for Tau is a little change in tactics.

Also look at the FAQ on the WWP- Ongoing Reserves can come from the WWP!

Arandmoor wrote:

Exergy wrote:DE WWP, cannot assault out of the portal, makes the list useless

IMO it reversed it because rapid fire weapons aren't hands-down inferior anymore. Instead of dumping assault units out of the portals, dump big blocks of warriors into rapid-fire range. Infantry got a lot more valuable IMO.

The no-more-than-50%-of-the-army-in-reserve + no assaulting out of reserve is rather harsh.
The ability to bring bikes / hellions out of it is really it's only particular saving grace, but even then - it's still killed what pretty much everyone used it for so far.

Death Guard have gotten much better with their FnP no longer negated with AP 2 and 1 weapons. Yea it's a 5 now, but it can keep us in the fight against things that would normaly get rid of it. Typhus has been made better as well. The changes to about FnP, ID and power weapons has made him a brick wall in combat. Granted you still have to be careful what you fight. You still don't want to loose that 2+.

The best part? Daemon Allies, you take Epidemius as an ally and keep him alive, you can eventually have plague marines that would on a 2 with no armor saves(close combat and shooting, it was FAQ'd) and a 3+ FnP. Congratulations, people will bitch about Chaos again, but not about dual Lash. Im not surprised if it's GK players that want to keep Allies out. They get no sympathy from me if they decided to be WAAC and now want to fix it so that any chance of the weaker armies getting their weakeness fixed is out and they feel less threatened. God forbid they get a taste of their own medicine and learn what it's like to be on the recieving end of such nonsense.

That's not to say Epid with Death Guard is broken, but I've already hear GK players trying to ban allies.

Hashulaman wrote:Death Guard have gotten much better with their FnP no longer negated with AP 2 and 1 weapons. Yea it's a 5 now, but it can keep us in the fight against things that would normaly get rid of it. Typhus has been made better as well. The changes to about FnP, ID and power weapons has made him a brick wall in combat. Granted you still have to be careful what you fight. You still don't want to loose that 2+.

The best part? Daemon Allies, you take Epidemius as an ally and keep him alive, you can eventually have plague marines that would on a 2 with no armor saves(close combat and shooting, it was FAQ'd) and a 3+ FnP. Congratulations, people will bitch about Chaos again, but not about dual Lash. Im not surprised if it's GK players that want to keep Allies out. They get no sympathy from me if they decided to be WAAC and now want to fix it so that any chance of the weaker armies getting their weakeness fixed is out and they feel less threatened. God forbid they get a taste of their own medicine and learn what it's like to be on the recieving end of such nonsense.

That's not to say Epid with Death Guard is broken, but I've already hear GK players trying to ban allies.

It's only a matter of time before the WAAC GK players figure out they can ally with IG.

Just noticed that Kharn now strikes at I1 since Gorechild is a Power Axe, as well a Typhus' weapon being a Force Axe.

McNinja wrote:Just noticed that Kharn now strikes at I1 since Gorechild is a Power Axe, as well a Typhus' weapon being a Force Axe.

typhus has a FW and its an Axe, best of both worlds

Deathwing went through the roof with power swords going to AP3, mauls at AP 4, and axes going at the same time as hammers. Also, anything with access to haywire is ridiculously good at killing vehicles.

Nagashek wrote:I forgot to add something to the list of Wych nerfs: Hypex is the first drug rolled on the chart. It allows you to roll 3d6 when making Run moves and pick the highest result. Now that you can not Run and Charge with Fleet, this makes certain that the Consolation Prize of the Combat Drugs list is now the rock in the bottom of Charlie Brown's candy bag. Alas! If only it was even that useful! That rock could be used as a weapon. This rock means you can... get away from combat faster. Or chase someone down who... I guess... wouldn't just shoot you to death instead.

it was already pretty bad. Bikes cannot run and bikes have combat drugs.

Just played first game with new rules, was 6 of us, so we each had 1k points and played a 3k per side. Need to play a few more games before I make decisions on whats nerfed or buffed.

But first impressions are skimmers have a little more survivabilty now with the cover save just for moving.

Vehicles overall might be more vulnerable, but I want to do more games to see this. But might see more balanced armies instead of Mech armies, will have to see after more games.

Flyers are def going to be interesting, but need to do more games. All I know is my DoomScythe has a bit more survivabilty now. Though in this game, I was up against our Imp Guards Vendettas, I took one out, then his second took me out.

Jump troops are interesting with the Hammer of Wrath rule, as long as they didnt use their jump movement before the charge. Guys usually lost one troop from it, so its something.

Overwatch was fun, usually got a kill or two out of it.

Some other stuff, but will be interesting to see the changes of folks armies in upcoming tourneys and such.

Hashulaman wrote:The best part? Daemon Allies, you take Epidemius as an ally and keep him alive, you can eventually have plague marines that would on a 2 with no armor saves(close combat and shooting, it was FAQ'd) and a 3+ FnP. Congratulations, people will bitch about Chaos again, but not about dual Lash.

This is awesome, I was wondering why I hadn't heard people playing doubles with EPI and plague marines in 5th I would have thought it would work. But it being official and in one force is just amazing I can see this being a very fun army to play and FLUFFY too!

I don't understand why GW removed the assaulting out of the WWP. It's not like that's even a real competitive option. Way to invalidate an entire play style and further make pain engines a complete joke. It baffles me why they'd do this, and I hope they change their mind. Wouldn't want beast packs killing the spess mehreens out of a portal though, would we?

DE CC is pretty nerfed. Wyches especially, at least as a real CC unit. Agonizer AP 3 is weak; I actually did use my Wyches against terminators, and they were reasonably decent against them, now they're garbage. Charge distance slightly nerfed and more random = not great. Overwatch kills them though. You only ever take 9 max, and overwatch shots are likely to kill 2-3 depending on what you're fighting before you even start. This is huge. The only way Wyches can be competitively used now is in 5 in a Venom throwing haywires. Pretty sad.

Other than that, some units were a little nerfed or a little buffed. Still feel really bad for any DE player who had a WWP army. $400-500 worth of stuff invalidated.

I've said it before, but they could have fixed it by simply allowing you to assault out of the webway. I mean, that's not too much to ask is it!

It's also specifically what the webway portals are for but nevermind that...

They also randomly removed Target Lock for no reason, and I don't know what random crap happened in the other faqs.

StarHunter25 wrote:Crisis suits got nerfed hard, as target locks no longer do anything... biggest nerf ever.
Also, psychic hoods are no longer as powerful (6" range, 5+ (regular)/4+(epistolary)) defy the witch... while space wolves still have their happy happy 4+ 24" range magic runic weapons.... dumb

True, but all Psykers got nerfed a little because they can no longer choose their powers. They have to roll for them. So you won't see SW players spamming RP's since they won't be able to choose Jaws and LL all the time. The Rune Priest is still good with top notch psychic defense, but their offensive powers are no longer reliable.

Since I'm talking about space wolves in 6th, here are some other things that have changed.

Acute Senses : Is now useless for all Space Wolves except Wolf Scouts (the only unit in the codex that has "outflank"). So with the 6th Ed Acute senses, you can more or less guarantee that Wolf Scouts come in from reserves any where the SW player wants (3+ with re-roll for "Behind Enemy Lines"). But SW's are no longer any better than anyone else at night fighting. But actually, I view this as more of a minor buff to Necrons than a nerf to SW's. In 5th Edition, it was very rare to have night fighting happen beyond turn 1. And on turn 1, the two armies were usually too far away for the "acute senses night fighting re-roll" to make a difference anyway. For me it only really mattered against Necrons when they used the Veil of Darkness to extend Night beyond Turn 1.

Preferred Enemy : Now allows you to re-roll any 'To Hit' AND 'To Wound' rolls of 1 in BOTH shooting AND close combat. So I expect SW's to make more use of Wolf Priests which confer Preferred Enemy to any unit they join. Expect to see Long Fangs armed with ML's and LC's joined by Wolf Priests and "Vehicles" or "Monstrous Creatures" for Preferred enemy. Also Long Fangs with Plasma Cannons or GH's with plasmaguns joined by Wolf Priests giving them the ability to re-roll those 'Gets' Hot'.

Challenges: I haven't read the rules for challenges in close combat very closely, but I did notice that characters CAN issue challenges to other characters. Once the challenge is issued, the challenged character can only attack the challenger (if the challenge is accepted) or cannot attack at all (if the challenge is refused). Since the space wolves have access to lots and lots of independent characters - many are good in close combat. I think this could be an advantage for SW's. On the other hand, it could also be a disadvantage, since some of those characters are too valuable to be in CC anyway. We'll have to see how this plays out.

I just don't understand the allies table at all, at least from a fluff perspective. It's far too leniant, and it's clear that GW just wanted to make sure as many people could ally with other people as possible to ensure more people buying more models (except tyranids, but we all know that GW hates them). I mean seriously, orks are allies of conveniance with Tau?! The Tau hate the orks with a burning passion, and the orks aren't exactly fans of them either. And Black Templars, one of the most xenophopic chapters ever, can be allies of conveniance with eldar?! I'm fine with fluffy match-ups like chaos daemons with chaos space marines, or even match-ups that aren't neccessarily fluffy at all, but at least don't contradict it. But templars with eldar?! Orks with Tau?! And they aren't even desperate allies!!

greg0985 wrote:
]At first when i saw that power swords are just AP3 and dont have that rumored "parry" special rule, i felt nothing but the proverbial RAAAAGGGGEEEE of Khorne (especially since i just finished painting 60 g*d* bloodletters and a dozen blood crushers).

All Demons have a 5+ invulnerable save now so you don't need the 5+ parry save for your BloodLetters and Blood Crushers. Also...They cause fear now, so your opponents better hope that they are space marines.

one thing i did notice was night vision now IGNORES night fight rules! so DE facing off against a necron pulse/imotekh list just laugh at the useless waste of at least 110 pts.

i think WWP can still work, as mentioned by bringing out warriors with rapid fires. maybe to take out or take over that enemy fortification.

also WTF is with eldar and dark eldar being battle brothers??? i thought they pretty much hated each other? ...definitily thinking of adding a seer council to my DE list... guide, fortune and doom for warrior / trueborn squads? tyvm!

loota boy wrote:I just don't understand the allies table at all, at least from a fluff perspective. It's far too leniant, and it's clear that GW just wanted to make sure as many people could ally with other people as possible to ensure more people buying more models (except tyranids, but we all know that GW hates them). I mean seriously, orks are allies of conveniance with Tau?! The Tau hate the orks with a burning passion, and the orks aren't exactly fans of them either. And Black Templars, one of the most xenophopic chapters ever, can be allies of conveniance with eldar?! I'm fine with fluffy match-ups like chaos daemons with chaos space marines, or even match-ups that aren't neccessarily fluffy at all, but at least don't contradict it. But templars with eldar?! Orks with Tau?! And they aren't even desperate allies!!

I agree. It's lame. GW is just trying to sell more models. But quite frankly, I think that you'll find that except for a few combinations, 'Allies' lists will not be as effective as everyone is making it out to be. Your army will work better if you get everything from one codex.

For example, I can't see any reason why I (as a space wolf) would ever take allies. Maybe to get a flyer? But then I'd have to buy a crappy HQ and a crappy troop choice first. I'd rather just roll with more space wolves. Same with GK. They don't need to take allies.

The only 'Allies' list I see right now as being effective are, Chaos SM + Demons (Naturally). You could say, Tau + SM, but then why not just take a whole army of Space Marines? Allies are for suckers. It's just GW trying to get people to invest in a second (third or fourth) army. Don't throw your $ away.


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DarthSpader wrote:
definitily thinking of adding a seer council to my DE list... guide, fortune and doom for warrior / trueborn squads? tyvm!

Except you don't get to pick Guide, Fortune and Doom. You have to roll for your powers and *hope* you get the ones you want.


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StarHunter25 wrote:Crisis suits got nerfed hard, as target locks no longer do anything... biggest nerf ever.
Also, psychic hoods are no longer as powerful (6" range, 5+ (regular)/4+(epistolary)) defy the witch... while space wolves still have their happy happy 4+ 24" range magic runic weapons.... dumb

Solution to this problem: Instead of taking a SM librarian, instead take SW for allies. A Rune Priest HQ and a unit of Grey Hunters for troops to hide your Rune Priest in. Now you too can have bad ass psychic Defense.

Tinsil wrote:I don't understand why GW removed the assaulting out of the WWP. It's not like that's even a real competitive option. Way to invalidate an entire play style and further make pain engines a complete joke. It baffles me why they'd do this, and I hope they change their mind. Wouldn't want beast packs killing the spess mehreens out of a portal though, would we?

DE CC is pretty nerfed. Wyches especially, at least as a real CC unit. Agonizer AP 3 is weak; I actually did use my Wyches against terminators, and they were reasonably decent against them, now they're garbage. Charge distance slightly nerfed and more random = not great. Overwatch kills them though. You only ever take 9 max, and overwatch shots are likely to kill 2-3 depending on what you're fighting before you even start. This is huge. The only way Wyches can be competitively used now is in 5 in a Venom throwing haywires. Pretty sad.

Other than that, some units were a little nerfed or a little buffed. Still feel really bad for any DE player who had a WWP army. $400-500 worth of stuff invalidated.

seems like a slight overreaction. The play style isnt completely invalid. The WWP still exists, they did not remove it from the game. So, you cant assault the first turn as you come in from WWP, that doesnt mean units that come in through WWP can never assault ever again, just the 1st turn. It'll be as if deep striking. Deep strike is valid. Yes, I agree it's nerfed, but not invalid.

Ovion wrote:I've said it before, but they could have fixed it by simply allowing you to assault out of the webway. I mean, that's not too much to ask is it!

It's also specifically what the webway portals are for but nevermind that...

They also randomly removed Target Lock for no reason, and I don't know what random crap happened in the other faqs.

Reavers using their Bladevanes/Caltrops just got better. Flat Out 36" straight over everything.

Grugknuckle wrote:
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DarthSpader wrote:
definitily thinking of adding a seer council to my DE list... guide, fortune and doom for warrior / trueborn squads? tyvm!

Except you don't get to pick Guide, Fortune and Doom. You have to roll for your powers and *hope* you get the ones you want.

except you can. you can either pick random powers OR just use the powers you had from the start

Phragonist wrote:

Tinsil wrote:I don't understand why GW removed the assaulting out of the WWP. It's not like that's even a real competitive option. Way to invalidate an entire play style and further make pain engines a complete joke. It baffles me why they'd do this, and I hope they change their mind. Wouldn't want beast packs killing the spess mehreens out of a portal though, would we?

DE CC is pretty nerfed. Wyches especially, at least as a real CC unit. Agonizer AP 3 is weak; I actually did use my Wyches against terminators, and they were reasonably decent against them, now they're garbage. Charge distance slightly nerfed and more random = not great. Overwatch kills them though. You only ever take 9 max, and overwatch shots are likely to kill 2-3 depending on what you're fighting before you even start. This is huge. The only way Wyches can be competitively used now is in 5 in a Venom throwing haywires. Pretty sad.

Other than that, some units were a little nerfed or a little buffed. Still feel really bad for any DE player who had a WWP army. $400-500 worth of stuff invalidated.

seems like a slight overreaction. The play style isnt completely invalid. The WWP still exists, they did not remove it from the game. So, you cant assault the first turn as you come in from WWP, that doesnt mean units that come in through WWP can never assault ever again, just the 1st turn. It'll be as if deep striking. Deep strike is valid. Yes, I agree it's nerfed, but not invalid.

What you're forgetting is that the entire Webway Portal list involved usually 15-20 units, of which around 3 or so wouldn't be reserved, which are generally quite expensive, reasonably tough and slow, OR, reasonably expensive, quite fragile units.
Which was the entire point of the 100+pts worth of portal you have to buy, to get your expensive, fragile, dedicated assault units somewhere before they died. Your Deepstriking models are invaribly a lot harder, and have plenty of shooting to offset it.
So now, when these assaulty units (that you can't put as many of into reserve anyway) get to come out of the webway portal, and stand there for a turn. During that turn they get to be shot, and their targets get to run away. leading them to chasing after their target.

While yes, it's still doable to a degree, and my Grotesques and Wracks can take more of a punch than than other DE units, it's a damn sight harder than before.
Which is something of a kick in the teeth as we've finally got the ability to modify reserves and make it viable.
But you're right - it's just over reacting, not a valid concern about the army of models that cost £10-30 each.

It is a big deal. Those CC units don't shoot well, so when they come on it's a full turn of them getting blasted and doing nothing but staring down the enemy.

The playstyle is pretty much invalid. You could say that the WWP isn't invalid, which is true. The WWP armies from 5th are essentially invalidated, and I feel bad for anyone who had one.


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loota boy wrote:I just don't understand the allies table at all, at least from a fluff perspective. It's far too leniant, and it's clear that GW just wanted to make sure as many people could ally with other people as possible to ensure more people buying more models (except tyranids, but we all know that GW hates them). I mean seriously, orks are allies of conveniance with Tau?! The Tau hate the orks with a burning passion, and the orks aren't exactly fans of them either. And Black Templars, one of the most xenophopic chapters ever, can be allies of conveniance with eldar?! I'm fine with fluffy match-ups like chaos daemons with chaos space marines, or even match-ups that aren't neccessarily fluffy at all, but at least don't contradict it. But templars with eldar?! Orks with Tau?! And they aren't even desperate allies!!

I agree completely. GW picked winners and losers in the allies table. If they weren't going to stick to fluff anyways, may as well have just let everyone ally with each other. I think it needed to be a one way table. Maybe X would be willing to ally Y, but Y might not want to ally X as a detachment. I knew allies was going to be a big imperial lovefest while the xenos hate each other.

I don't really play Dark Eldar, but couldn't you load your wyches and grotesque, which aren't bulky, use a raider to enter the board from a WWP? If you flat-out the raider, it'll give it some protection against the fire it'll inevitably take, plus it'll give you some extra range next turn when you charge. And since open-topped transports are still assault vehicles, it gives some life into an otherwise dead army.

acekevin8412 wrote:I don't really play Dark Eldar, but couldn't you load your wyches and grotesque, which aren't bulky, use a raider to enter the board from a WWP? If you flat-out the raider, it'll give it some protection against the fire it'll inevitably take, plus it'll give you some extra range next turn when you charge. And since open-topped transports are still assault vehicles, it gives some life into an otherwise dead army.

grotesques are bulky and require an IC so you can only fit 4 on a raider. You really want to have 10 in a squad though.
also vehicles cannot come out of a WWP in the 5th codex, only in the 3rd.

Damn.....where does it say that Grotesques are bulky? The FAQ? I must have missed it.

Too bad about WWP armies then.

Tinsil wrote:

loota boy wrote:I just don't understand the allies table at all, at least from a fluff perspective. It's far too leniant, and it's clear that GW just wanted to make sure as many people could ally with other people as possible to ensure more people buying more models (except tyranids, but we all know that GW hates them). I mean seriously, orks are allies of conveniance with Tau?! The Tau hate the orks with a burning passion, and the orks aren't exactly fans of them either. And Black Templars, one of the most xenophopic chapters ever, can be allies of conveniance with eldar?! I'm fine with fluffy match-ups like chaos daemons with chaos space marines, or even match-ups that aren't neccessarily fluffy at all, but at least don't contradict it. But templars with eldar?! Orks with Tau?! And they aren't even desperate allies!!

I agree completely. GW picked winners and losers in the allies table. If they weren't going to stick to fluff anyways, may as well have just let everyone ally with each other. I think it needed to be a one way table. Maybe X would be willing to ally Y, but Y might not want to ally X as a detachment. I knew allies was going to be a big imperial lovefest while the xenos hate each other.

the ally table sucks. Some armies are clear winners and most of them are Imperium of Man units. Chaos aren't battle brothers with Traitor Guard? Nids cant even take a genestealer cult as a desprete ally?


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acekevin8412 wrote:Damn.....where does it say that Grotesques are bulky? The FAQ? I must have missed it.

Too bad about WWP armies then.

in the 5th codex

@GrugKnuckle. Psyckers can still choose powers, as far as I can tell from reading the rulebook, and FAQ. The only time it is random is when you choose to take the random powers instead.

Eldrad as an example, you can choose to use the powers he has that you know and love, or you can instead take 4 from the spell book/list thingy, which will be random.

I will be reading through the rules again soon and figuring it all our for sure.

acekevin8412 wrote:Damn.....where does it say that Grotesques are bulky? The FAQ? I must have missed it.

Too bad about WWP armies then.

Yeah, It's right there in their unit entry. Bulky, meaning max 4 in a raider.
3-4 Grotesques out of a raider with a haem isn't what people expect, and they tend to do alright, but 10 out of a webway was fairly rape-face ( 40-50 Str6 attacks on the charge, 3 wounds each and T5 all for 350-400pts.)

StarHunter25 wrote:
Acute Senses : Is now useless for all Space Wolves except Wolf Scouts (the only unit in the codex that has "outflank"). So with the 6th Ed Acute senses, you can more or less guarantee that Wolf Scouts come in from reserves any where the SW player wants (3+ with re-roll for "Behind Enemy Lines"). But SW's are no longer any better than anyone else at night fighting. But actually, I view this as more of a minor buff to Necrons than a nerf to SW's. In 5th Edition, it was very rare to have night fighting happen beyond turn 1. And on turn 1, the two armies were usually too far away for the "acute senses night fighting re-roll" to make a difference anyway. For me it only really mattered against Necrons when they used the Veil of Darkness to extend Night beyond Turn 1.

Essentially the same applies to Tau