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Tye_Informer wrote:If that's the case, then he has the right to kick her to get her to stop.

What? That's not how you subdue a delinquent. Police work shouldn't look like a game of Street Fighter. Especially when that somebody is already handcuffed, a pair of hands should be perfectly enough to restrain her further, no?

Assuming she was actually fighting back, for at this point I know nothing more but this photo and the claim as well.

Tye_Informer wrote:The public was outraged but then the whole video was shown.

Tbh, then "the public" was full of idiots. If the news said she was shot for having a knife and you don't see both hands empty, then the logical course of action would be to assume the knife must be in one of the hands not visible.

Tye_Informer wrote:or your going to get hurt.

Or killed.

[edit] Ah, so trying to trip someone now counts as "kicking"...

Yeah, that looks even worse.

It is never acceptable for police to use force of any level if there is a lower level that would be effective.

Wouldn't be as nearly fun watching though.

Wow...He claimed it was in self defense..

Drunk woman makes a half hearted attempt to kick a police officer, from a handcuffed seated position, so said police officer drops a round house to her head?

A bit over kill...


GG

generalgrog wrote:so said police officer drops a round house to her head?

The "best" part is how he seems to casually resume writing his paperwork after "dealing" with the "threat".

I guess I'm the only one who thinks that was pretty reasonable. She kicks him as hard as she can across the shins whilst he's distracted filling out paperwork and his instant reaction is to just flick his foot out towards her to get her to stop. He catches her pretty sweetly, but I personally think that's a fluke, and that he was actually aiming for her shoulder.

I mean, yeah, it looks bad, but it was just a split-second reaction in the heat of the moment, acting in self-defence. It's not like he lined her up and gave her a running volley to the head. It was flick that just caught her square in the temple by chance. A fluke.

Pretty sure that was the calves, seeing that she did not even "kick" him but swung her leg in an arc from the side. If she had hit his shins the guy might have actually look like it had bothered him.

If his "instant reaction" is to kick people in the head that's a sure sign of an overly violent personality to me, making him a threat to society rather than an asset. The guy is probably stressed out by a gakky job and venting his frustration at helpless citizens unable to fight back at his assumed authority. Probably the most common source for police brutality - people joining the force with ideals and over the years getting burned out and corrupted by a cycle of violence, hatred, perceived betrayal by public and officials (connected to low wages and benefits), false cameraderie from fellow officers and simple human enjoyment of dominance.

Albatross wrote:I guess I'm the only one who thinks that was pretty reasonable. She kicks him as hard as she can across the shins whilst he's distracted filling out paperwork and his instant reaction is to just flick his foot out towards her to get her to stop. He catches her pretty sweetly, but I personally think that's a fluke, and that he was actually aiming for her shoulder.

I mean, yeah, it looks bad, but it was just a split-second reaction in the heat of the moment, acting in self-defence. It's not like he lined her up and gave her a running volley to the head. It was flick that just caught her square in the temple by chance. A fluke.

If your gut reaction is to kick a seated, handcuffed person, you are not properly trained to act as police officer. Anyone authorized to use violence legally needs to have more self control.

Albatross wrote:I guess I'm the only one who thinks that was pretty reasonable. She kicks him as hard as she can across the shins whilst he's distracted filling out paperwork and his instant reaction is to just flick his foot out towards her to get her to stop. He catches her pretty sweetly, but I personally think that's a fluke, and that he was actually aiming for her shoulder.

I mean, yeah, it looks bad, but it was just a split-second reaction in the heat of the moment, acting in self-defence. It's not like he lined her up and gave her a running volley to the head. It was flick that just caught her square in the temple by chance. A fluke.

Well, I think the larger point is that when you're on a call to arrest someone for being drunk and disorderly, and you have her restrained, your first recourse should not be to strike her unless the circumstances are extreme. It would be different if you were pulling someone out of an area known for gang violence, or if you knew she was on something more difficult than simple booze, and even then stupid as the environment would require caution so as not to attract attention.

I mean, the woman doesn't even appear to be wearing shoes, and if that's the hardest kick she could muster she isn't much of a threat. He clearly didn't think she was either, given where he was standing.

Lynata wrote:
If his "instant reaction" is to kick people in the head that's a sure sign of an overly violent personality to me, making him a threat to society rather than an asset.

I don't know about "overly violent", but certainly "poorly trained" or "unprofessional".

Albatross wrote:I guess I'm the only one who thinks that was pretty reasonable. She kicks him as hard as she can across the shins whilst he's distracted filling out paperwork and his instant reaction is to just flick his foot out towards her to get her to stop. He catches her pretty sweetly, but I personally think that's a fluke, and that he was actually aiming for her shoulder.

I mean, yeah, it looks bad, but it was just a split-second reaction in the heat of the moment, acting in self-defence. It's not like he lined her up and gave her a running volley to the head. It was flick that just caught her square in the temple by chance. A fluke.

I could have a girl going flying rodent gak insane and trying to claw my eyes out. But if I punched her in the face, I'd still look like a monster to the people around me.
Police are no different. I hope that cop dies in a house fire.

dogma wrote:I don't know about "overly violent", but certainly "poorly trained" or "unprofessional".

I'm not sure about the training, but I think lots of these incidents could be avoided with frequent counseling. They are introducing this for soldiers now, and it seems to pay off.

Testify wrote:I could have a girl going flying rodent gak insane and trying to claw my eyes out. But if I punched her in the face, I'd still look like a monster to the people around me.

Not in my opinion, punch her!

MrDwhitey wrote:Not in my opinion, punch her!

Seconded. I support gender equality - this includes the drawbacks.

MrDwhitey wrote:

Testify wrote:I could have a girl going flying rodent gak insane and trying to claw my eyes out. But if I punched her in the face, I'd still look like a monster to the people around me.

Not in my opinion, punch her!

16 stone man punches a woman in the face.
Bad things happen, believe me.
Restraining people really isn't very hard. It's easier to restrain someone than use violence to incapacitate someone.

I felt the need.

Yeah, he did that on purpose, otherwise he would have been surprised at the fact he just kicked her in the head.

Mannahnin wrote:

Albatross wrote:I guess I'm the only one who thinks that was pretty reasonable. She kicks him as hard as she can across the shins whilst he's distracted filling out paperwork and his instant reaction is to just flick his foot out towards her to get her to stop. He catches her pretty sweetly, but I personally think that's a fluke, and that he was actually aiming for her shoulder.

I mean, yeah, it looks bad, but it was just a split-second reaction in the heat of the moment, acting in self-defence. It's not like he lined her up and gave her a running volley to the head. It was flick that just caught her square in the temple by chance. A fluke.

If your gut reaction is to kick a seated, handcuffed person, you are not properly trained to act as police officer. Anyone authorized to use violence legally needs to have more self control.

...so you're saying I... shouldn't become a cop?

Don't get me wrong, the guy isn't my hero or anything, I just think it looks worse than it probably is. I wouldn't have done what he did. When she kicked me I would have jumped out of her range, then told her to sit still or get tasered.

Albatross wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:

Albatross wrote:I guess I'm the only one who thinks that was pretty reasonable. She kicks him as hard as she can across the shins whilst he's distracted filling out paperwork and his instant reaction is to just flick his foot out towards her to get her to stop. He catches her pretty sweetly, but I personally think that's a fluke, and that he was actually aiming for her shoulder.

I mean, yeah, it looks bad, but it was just a split-second reaction in the heat of the moment, acting in self-defence. It's not like he lined her up and gave her a running volley to the head. It was flick that just caught her square in the temple by chance. A fluke.

If your gut reaction is to kick a seated, handcuffed person, you are not properly trained to act as police officer. Anyone authorized to use violence legally needs to have more self control.

...so you're saying I... shouldn't become a cop?

Don't get me wrong, the guy isn't my hero or anything, I just think it looks worse than it probably is. I wouldn't have done what he did. When she kicked me I would have jumped out of her range, then told her to sit still or get tasered.

And you wonder why there were anti-police riots in England
Seriously if a cop did something like this on an English city center, there'd be blood on the streets.

Lynata wrote:I'm not sure about the training, but I think lots of these incidents could be avoided with frequent counseling. They are introducing this for soldiers now, and it seems to pay off.

If I remember right some police departments also do this, but with funding often being issue I can't imagine its many.

Testify wrote:

Albatross wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:

Albatross wrote:I guess I'm the only one who thinks that was pretty reasonable. She kicks him as hard as she can across the shins whilst he's distracted filling out paperwork and his instant reaction is to just flick his foot out towards her to get her to stop. He catches her pretty sweetly, but I personally think that's a fluke, and that he was actually aiming for her shoulder.

I mean, yeah, it looks bad, but it was just a split-second reaction in the heat of the moment, acting in self-defence. It's not like he lined her up and gave her a running volley to the head. It was flick that just caught her square in the temple by chance. A fluke.

If your gut reaction is to kick a seated, handcuffed person, you are not properly trained to act as police officer. Anyone authorized to use violence legally needs to have more self control.

...so you're saying I... shouldn't become a cop?

Don't get me wrong, the guy isn't my hero or anything, I just think it looks worse than it probably is. I wouldn't have done what he did. When she kicked me I would have jumped out of her range, then told her to sit still or get tasered.

And you wonder why there were anti-police riots in England
Seriously if a cop did something like this on an English city center, there'd be blood on the streets.

Yes, presumably from the person who got kicked in the head.

Testify wrote:Seriously if a cop did something like this on an English city center, there'd be blood on the streets.

Didn't a cop shove a random and completely innocent citizen so hard to the ground that he died due to his head slamming against the concrete? I vaguely remember reading about it. Happened during the riots, tho, so it's understandable they were on the edge and I wouldn't have expected someone basically dying from a shove either. The saddest thing about that incident is the guy didn't even deserve to be shoved as his only "crime" was being in the wrong place at the wrong time and was pushed as he tried to leave the area and go home. :(

dogma wrote:If I remember right some police departments also do this, but with funding often being issue I can't imagine its many.

Aye, the budget seems to be an issue in so many countries. It's unbelievable when you consider the other areas of spending where it's basically thrown out of the window.
In Germany, I know of cases where cops had to buy their own handcuffs because the department would only issue them with straps of plastic.
And that's not even touching the lack of personnell, basically leading to the police ignoring incidents as they lack the time to investigate. They're not allowed to mention this to the public, but a news magazine accompanied a pair of fed-up anonymous officers during a nightly patrol.

Frazzled wrote:

dogma wrote:

Frazzled wrote:She tried to kick him first. He's in a tactically superior position and she's a dumbass. He's just helping Darwin along. Not seeing what the problem is.

He's in a tactically superior position, striking a seated, handcuffed woman. His choice of response not only cost him his job and ensured that he'll never work in law enforcement again, it was almost certain to do so. He's even more of an idiot than she is, especially since she was intoxicated. Had the kick inflicted a serious head injury to the woman, which was likely given the relative positions, his problems would have been further magnified.

Moreover, if I defend myself against a woman from a tactically superior position, I would be in prison.

Pssh party pooper... and not one word abut this new stealth technology thats dropped all the way down to the local constabulary.

You know, if they can stealthize the human thigh, they can stealthize a wiener dog. Lots of wiener dogs.

My Children, the 12th Sign Has Been Reviled! Our Day Of Liberation from the Cat and Squirrel Menace is at hand! To War!!!!



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jihadin wrote:Power trip.

Looks more like a Power kick to me...

Reviled? What, are the Pan Fo involved? Makes sense.


Stupid cop. Everyone knows you make the crazy drunk chase you and fall over a lot while you and your buddies laugh at her.

I'm not sure about the training, but I think lots of these incidents could be avoided with frequent counseling. They are introducing this for soldiers now, and it seems to pay off.

Really? What classes? Two different worlds here.

Mannahnin wrote:

Albatross wrote:I guess I'm the only one who thinks that was pretty reasonable. She kicks him as hard as she can across the shins whilst he's distracted filling out paperwork and his instant reaction is to just flick his foot out towards her to get her to stop. He catches her pretty sweetly, but I personally think that's a fluke, and that he was actually aiming for her shoulder.

I mean, yeah, it looks bad, but it was just a split-second reaction in the heat of the moment, acting in self-defence. It's not like he lined her up and gave her a running volley to the head. It was flick that just caught her square in the temple by chance. A fluke.

If your gut reaction is to kick a seated, handcuffed person, you are not properly trained to act as police officer. Anyone authorized to use violence legally needs to have more self control.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

dogma wrote:

Albatross wrote:I guess I'm the only one who thinks that was pretty reasonable. She kicks him as hard as she can across the shins whilst he's distracted filling out paperwork and his instant reaction is to just flick his foot out towards her to get her to stop. He catches her pretty sweetly, but I personally think that's a fluke, and that he was actually aiming for her shoulder.

I mean, yeah, it looks bad, but it was just a split-second reaction in the heat of the moment, acting in self-defence. It's not like he lined her up and gave her a running volley to the head. It was flick that just caught her square in the temple by chance. A fluke.

Well, I think the larger point is that when you're on a call to arrest someone for being drunk and disorderly, and you have her restrained, your first recourse should not be to strike her unless the circumstances are extreme. It would be different if you were pulling someone out of an area known for gang violence, or if you knew she was on something more difficult than simple booze, and even then stupid as the environment would require caution so as not to attract attention.

I mean, the woman doesn't even appear to be wearing shoes, and if that's the hardest kick she could muster she isn't much of a threat. He clearly didn't think she was either, given where he was standing.

Lynata wrote:
If his "instant reaction" is to kick people in the head that's a sure sign of an overly violent personality to me, making him a threat to society rather than an asset.

I don't know about "overly violent", but certainly "poorly trained" or "unprofessional".

Poor choice of action. Pepper spray is better option

Jihadin wrote:Really? What classes? Two different worlds here.

Is it really, though? I don't think the stress that soldiers experience in a warzone (especially an occupied country where the distinction between friendly and hostile is blurred) is that fundamentally different from a cop doing shift after shift in a particularly violent area of his city where he has to cope with gangers and some very sick crimes, possibly stuff that can really scar people. The human psyche will always try to adapt to a new situation, but at times this adaption lets the individual end up sick and twisted if he doesn't receive help in time.

At least for now I refuse to believe that the majority of cops join the force because they've always been donkey-caves. Call it naive, but I think most of them were good once, people with high ideals of law and justice, and were only corrupted by exposure to a specific type of environment (the external climate of street violence and shattered ideals, and the internal climate of cameraderie that stretches beyond protocol).

As for the classes, I'm not sure what you meant, but there's lots of material on the issue on the interwebs - here's just one example from google: http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/the-us-military-faces-a-difficult-battle-against-psychological-stress-a-829390.html

tl;dr: people working in a particularly stressful environment need assistance staying true to themselves. Superiors dismissing incidents or concern without thought and comrades covering for each other even in the face of the most inhumane behavior is just wrong, and as we have seen this happens in both the military as well as the police. I see lots of parallels between the two, though that's just my current impression.

LOL occupied countries now thats funny. Again its two different worlds. EPW would be zipped cuff hand and feet with a sandbag over their head. Now if we're talking violence its two different world still. We don't wait for a negotiater we go and kill them if possible and if they surrender then they're accorded rights as a EPW.....after we take care of our own.

Meh. She was asking for it. I mean, did you seen what she was wearing? It was purple!

Lynata wrote:

dogma wrote:I don't know about "overly violent", but certainly "poorly trained" or "unprofessional".

I'm not sure about the training, but I think lots of these incidents could be avoided with frequent counseling. They are introducing this for soldiers now, and it seems to pay off.

Soldiers are meant to be violent, and so are police, so those professions attract people with a propensity for violence.

Of course the violence is supposed to be exercised within legal limitation, however conflicting messages from the public, and a macho culture, reduce the force of the rules and training.

Plus, police and soldiers often operate in high tension conditions, and have to make snap judgements.