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AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Kaldor wrote:There's nothing wrong with it.

This. I've never understood why it's so incomprehensible that a guy who's the best of the best of the Imperium's Daemonhunters, a guy whose mere presence is painful to daemons, his very bones etched with anti-demonic wards, managed to banish a daemon Primarch who'd just gone to town beating the previous Supreme Grand Master to death. It'd stand to reason that fighting two guys (the best two) whose very reason to exist is to make you as miserable as possible would weaken you quite a bit.

Why does he remain Grand Master of a Chapter when he's not there?

Just Dave wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Kaldor wrote:There's nothing wrong with it.

This. I've never understood why it's so incomprehensible that a guy who's the best of the best of the Imperium's Daemonhunters, a guy whose mere presence is painful to daemons, his very bones etched with anti-demonic wards, managed to banish a daemon Primarch who'd just gone to town beating the previous Supreme Grand Master to death. It'd stand to reason that fighting two guys (the best two) whose very reason to exist is to make you as miserable as possible would weaken you quite a bit.

Why does he remain Grand Master of a Chapter when he's not there?

Because you're Supreme Grand Master for life? It's easily explainable by just assuming that someone else runs the Chapter anyway.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Kaldor wrote:There's nothing wrong with it.

This. I've never understood why it's so incomprehensible that a guy who's the best of the best of the Imperium's Daemonhunters, a guy whose mere presence is painful to daemons, his very bones etched with anti-demonic wards, managed to banish a daemon Primarch who'd just gone to town beating the previous Supreme Grand Master to death. It'd stand to reason that fighting two guys (the best two) whose very reason to exist is to make you as miserable as possible would weaken you quite a bit. I don't ever see anyone complaining that Khârn's fluff is a bit OTT (Which, let's face it, it is. Love the guy though), despite him killing everything in his way and then some. Is it just some sort of irrational hatred against "good" (very arguably) heroes being as strong (or silly, you choose) as some of their evil counterparts? Is it just "it's new therefore it sucks"? Is it something I've missed completely?

Mortarion is not a daemon.

He is the avatar of Nurgle. He is DEATH ITSELF.

Draigo is a complete rip-off of the story of Hercules where Herc fights Death to save a friends life.

Herc pins Death to the ground outside of his friends house for like a year or something while something else is going on... it's been a few years since I've read my mythology books.

I don't have a problem with most of the Draigo fluff. Just the Mortarion battle and the whole burning down the gardens of Nurgle ect.

Kaldor wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:I've never understood why it's so incomprehensible that a guy who can just hurrrr his way through everything Chaos throws at him is laem.

It would be, but that's not what Draigo is.

After a titanic clash of forces, Draigo banished Mortarion. So what? That's pretty much exactly what happened during the first war for Armageddon and no one complains about that.

Later, Draigo was trapped in the Warp, where he is a toy for the Chaos gods. You think they couldn't just disintegrate him if they wanted? Of course they could.

But they don't want to. They have all eternity to make him repeat the same battles over and over, and see just how long it takes for his will to break.

That was 109 Grey Knights, of which only 13 survived. Plus as you see in The Emperor's Gift, even that victory was barely won.

The Draigo vs Mortarion thing is worse because it's more embarrassing to an established villain (carving his name in his heart? really?), and also because there's no indication was anyone other then Draigo after he killed the previous Supreme Grand Master. If they expanded upon it rather then making it a little blurb it might be more passable.

I would improve it by making his feats a bit less ridiculous and make it seem like he's not just rampaging around the Warp with impunity, so much so that Daemons now seem to be avoiding him altogether. Have the fortress of M'Kachen reappear as if nothing happened a short time after Draigo destroys it. Have him lose an arm and show a struggle. Right now he's basically unstoppable.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:I've never understood why it's so incomprehensible that a guy who can just hurrrr his way through everything Chaos throws at him is laem.

The same way that Khârn "hurrs" his way through everything? Or Ghazghkull? The difference being, of course, that Khârn actually kills stuff, instead of having his work undone with ease.

Why is it that everytime the Imperium has someone that's good enough to take on a major enemy one on one it's reviled like hell (Mephiston, Calgar, Draigo, Tigurius), but when some non-Imperium dude does something equally ridiculous (Ghazghkull, Swarmlord, fething Maugan Ra not to mention Eldrad) it's generally ignored?

- Kharn doesn't huurr his way through everything. He's a formidaable fighter, but has never defeated anyone note worthy.

- Ghazzy doesn't hurr his way through everything. He's already lost one war and been stalemated in his second one, he's now running for his life from Yarrick and the Black Templars.

- Swarmlord has never killed anyone of note.

-Maugan Ra has never killed anyone of note.

-Eldrad never killed anyone of note, and is now dead and having his feet tickled for all eternally by Slaanesh.

Are there any more unsuccessful connections you'd like to make?

BlaxicanX wrote:Eldrad never killed anyone of note, and is now dead and having his feet tickled for all eternally by Slaanesh.

That's a weird image.

Myabe if it was revealed that he's become sort of warp entity and that how he's suviving in there.

Mortarion is not a daemon.

He is the avatar of Nurgle. He is DEATH ITSELF.

Not really, he is indeed a Daemon, by that logic Angron should be FURY ITSELF but rather than being the most high of champions Khorne pays more attention to his underling Kharn the Betrayer.

Draigo is a complete rip-off of the story of Hercules where Herc fights Death to save a friends life.

Herc pins Death to the ground outside of his friends house for like a year or something while something else is going on... it's been a few years since I've read my mythology books.

Wrong hero Sisyphus tricked Thanatos into his own chains in Tartarus (that Zeus planned for him) thus preventing death (until Ares got pissed off at the deathless carnage)

Though you might be talking more about where Heracles beat him to gain the right to revive Alkestis. Which is the same idea, but with less pinning for a year

DeffDred wrote:
Mortarion is not a daemon.

He is the avatar of Nurgle. He is DEATH ITSELF.

Draigo is not a Space Marine, he is the will of the Emperor made manifest, the tip of his spear, the gauntlet about his fist.


See how silly that sounds?

BlaxicanX wrote:-Maugan Ra has never killed anyone of note.

Nah, he just held an entire planet from a Hive Fleet by himself, totally not noteworthy at all.

Harriticus wrote:The Draigo vs Mortarion thing is worse because it's more embarrassing to an established villain (carving his name in his heart? really?), and also because there's no indication was anyone other then Draigo after he killed the previous Supreme Grand Master. If they expanded upon it rather then making it a little blurb it might be more passable.

Yep, a Grand Master and the Supreme Grand Master were totally just milling about all alone and were then rudely interrupted by a Daemon Primarch.

Harriticus wrote:I would improve it by making his feats a bit less ridiculous and make it seem like he's not just rampaging around the Warp with impunity, so much so that Daemons now seem to be avoiding him altogether. Have the fortress of M'Kachen reappear as if nothing happened a short time after Draigo destroys it. Have him lose an arm and show a struggle. Right now he's basically unstoppable.

The stuff DOES return. The Codex even says so.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:-Maugan Ra has never killed anyone of note.

Nah, he just held an entire planet from a Hive Fleet by himself, totally not noteworthy at all.

It was a splinter fleet from Leviathan, not a Hive Fleet, and it was of unknown size and force disposition.

Try again, sir.

BlaxicanX wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:-Maugan Ra has never killed anyone of note.

Nah, he just held an entire planet from a Hive Fleet by himself, totally not noteworthy at all.

It was a splinter fleet from Leviathan, not a Hive Fleet, and it was of unknown size and force disposition.

Try again, sir.

Hive Fleet Gorgon was a Splinter Fleet yet it alone wrecked Tau to devastating number.

Most splinter fleets comprise as few as a dozen Hive Ships. Yet even a dozen of these massive bioships are more than capable of overruning a life-bearing world and harvesting all of its biomass so that it can grow into an even larger and more dangerous threat.

If he beat a Splinter Fleet, that's pretty powerful, even if it was JUST ONE HIVE SHIP

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:-Maugan Ra has never killed anyone of note.

Nah, he just held an entire planet from a Hive Fleet by himself, totally not noteworthy at all.

It was a splinter fleet from Leviathan, not a Hive Fleet, and it was of unknown size and force disposition.

Try again, sir.

Hive Fleet Gorgon was a Splinter Fleet yet it alone wrecked Tau to devastating number.

Most splinter fleets comprise as few as a dozen Hive Ships. Yet even a dozen of these massive bioships are more than capable of overruning a life-bearing world and harvesting all of its biomass so that it can grow into an even larger and more dangerous threat.

If he beat a Splinter Fleet, that's pretty powerful, even if it was JUST ONE HIVE SHIP

And yet we're not talking about Gorgon, thus that is irrelevant.

As well, by your own cited source, it says"most" splinter fleets have X amount of forces, not all, to which I again point out that the actual size and disposition of the fleet Ra destroyed is undefined.

Try again, sir.

BlaxicanX wrote:

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:-Maugan Ra has never killed anyone of note.

Nah, he just held an entire planet from a Hive Fleet by himself, totally not noteworthy at all.

It was a splinter fleet from Leviathan, not a Hive Fleet, and it was of unknown size and force disposition.

Try again, sir.

Hive Fleet Gorgon was a Splinter Fleet yet it alone wrecked Tau to devastating number.

Most splinter fleets comprise as few as a dozen Hive Ships. Yet even a dozen of these massive bioships are more than capable of overruning a life-bearing world and harvesting all of its biomass so that it can grow into an even larger and more dangerous threat.

If he beat a Splinter Fleet, that's pretty powerful, even if it was JUST ONE HIVE SHIP

And yet we're not talking about Gorgon, thus that is irrelevant.

As well, by your own cited source, it says"most" splinter fleets have X amount of forces, not all, to which I again point out that the actual size and disposition of the fleet Ra destroyed is undefined.

Try again, sir.

You apparently missed my last sentence, so I'll reiterate it because you concentrated on the strawman portion that you could use to try and ignore it. Even if it was just ONE HIVE SHIP (Which wouldn't make it a Splinter Fleet, but I digress) He beat back an entire ship that had already conquered his squads, and was already across the entire world.

Strawman doesn't mean what you think it means

So what? You're acting like he was in a room filled with a million tyranids and he killed every one of them one by one while evading their attacks like a Jedi, or something. If they were spread across an entire planet then obviously he wasn't fighting the whole swarm by itself, only specific pockets of them at a time, which makes perfect sense. We all know Yriel utterly broke the back of a real Hive Fleet, Kraken, purely by killing a single synapse creature- the Hive Tyrant.

It's more than feasible that Maugan Ra did the exact same thing. No where in the fluff does it state that he single-handily annihilated that entire splinter fleet- only that he drove it off the planet. Please don't exaggerate the feat. It's impressive, but not as impressive as people in this thread are trying to make it.

We all know Yriel utterly broke the back of a real Hive Fleet, Kraken, purely by killing a single synapse creature- the Hive Tyrant.
It's more than feasible that Maugan Ra did the exact same thing. No where in the fluff does it state that he single-handily annihilated that entire splinter fleet- only that he drove it off the planet. Please don't exaggerate the feat. It's impressive, but not as impressive as people in this thread are trying to make it.

First off, he was backed up by an entire Eldar Fleet and army, he wasn't by himself all by his lonesome. Two they beat it's hive ships in orbit completely before landing, thus eliminating the main norn queens and the main synapse that could be provided from orbit, not to mention eliminating all chance of reinforcement and more synapse creatures to be provided. Three he beat the modified hive tyrant on the planet with a special Spear of Twilight, which damned himself and was the only thing that could harm the thing at the time.

The main thing that broke was the fact that the Entire Hive Fleet in Orbit was Destroyed first, than the Hive Tyrant on the planet Lysander

Meugan Ra drove off an entire splinter fleet (or one ship) By himself, no reinforcements, no Eldar Corsairs backing him up from the skies driving off the pods and the actual ship itself.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

DeffDred wrote:
Mortarion is not a daemon.

He is the avatar of Nurgle. He is DEATH ITSELF.

Draigo is not a Space Marine, he is the will of the Emperor made manifest, the tip of his spear, the gauntlet about his fist.


See how silly that sounds?.

Yeah it does sound silly because Draigo is just a GK. He isn't someone greated by a demi-god to become a demi-god and then granted god-hood by a god.

Mortarion is death itself. I'm not making a bold claim. I'm just telling you how it is.

"...that one whose name is Death itself; Mortarion. He send the tendrils of his horror and disease through all the dimensions, harvesting fear and dispair for his master, the God of Decay. His heinous touch reaches through the Aethyr, contaminating all it passes. I have seen the strange and vast vessels that sail the Aethyr's tides, and I have witnessed the effect of Mortarion's touch upon them." Liber Chaotica Volume 3 - Nurgle.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:First off, he was backed up by an entire Eldar Fleet and army, he wasn't by himself all by his lonesome. Two they beat it's hive ships in orbit completely before landing, thus eliminating the main norn queens and the main synapse that could be provided from orbit, not to mention eliminating all chance of reinforcement and more synapse creatures to be provided. Three he beat the modified hive tyrant on the planet with a special Spear of Twilight, which damned himself and was the only thing that could harm the thing at the time.

The main thing that broke was the fact that the Entire Hive Fleet in Orbit was Destroyed first, than the Hive Tyrant on the planet Lysander

Meugan Ra drove off an entire splinter fleet (or one ship) By himself, no reinforcements, no Eldar Corsairs backing him up from the skies driving off the pods and the actual ship itself.

No, actually. That's incorrect. The fluff makes it clear that while the Corsairs destroying the Hive Fleet's ships cut off the Tyranids reinforcements, there was already more than enough Tyranids already on the Craftworld to easily slaughter the remnants of Iyanden as well as Yriel's reinforcements. The Eldar had won the battle in Space, but the Tyranids were still winning on the Craftworld itself by a huge margin, and there was nothing the Corsairs could do about it. The only reason Iyanden survived Kraken was because Yriel managed to kill the Hive Tyrant, which single handily crippled the Tyranid forces on the Craftworld. By the time Yriel engaged the Tyrant, the Eldar battlelines had been completely overrun, so no, he wasn't "supported by an army" when he killed the Tyrant. He basically just cut a swathe through the Tyran'ts guard and then killed it in single combat, and that ended the fight.

Similarly, if a force that's infinitely smaller than Kraken is spread out over an entire planet, then obviously the number of Tyranids doesn't matter. Maugan Ra need only fight the main Synapse creature on the planet and whatever Tyranids are surrounding it at the time. Again, while that's obviously highly impressive, it isn't nearly as impressive as people are making it out to be, especially for an immortal Phoenix Lord who's been fighting for like 30,000 years.

Just Dave wrote:

Why does he remain Grand Master of a Chapter when he's not there?

The CEO of a company doesn't get replaced when his Executives handle everything...

Iranna.

BlaxicanX wrote:

ZebioLizard2 wrote:First off, he was backed up by an entire Eldar Fleet and army, he wasn't by himself all by his lonesome. Two they beat it's hive ships in orbit completely before landing, thus eliminating the main norn queens and the main synapse that could be provided from orbit, not to mention eliminating all chance of reinforcement and more synapse creatures to be provided. Three he beat the modified hive tyrant on the planet with a special Spear of Twilight, which damned himself and was the only thing that could harm the thing at the time.

The main thing that broke was the fact that the Entire Hive Fleet in Orbit was Destroyed first, than the Hive Tyrant on the planet Lysander

Meugan Ra drove off an entire splinter fleet (or one ship) By himself, no reinforcements, no Eldar Corsairs backing him up from the skies driving off the pods and the actual ship itself.

No, actually. That's incorrect. The fluff makes it clear that while the Corsairs destroying the Hive Fleet's ships cut off the Tyranids reinforcements, there was already more than enough Tyranids already on the Craftworld to easily slaughter the remnants of Iyanden as well as Yriel's reinforcements. The Eldar had won the battle in Space, but the Tyranids were still winning on the Craftworld itself by a huge margin, and there was nothing the Corsairs could do about it. The only reason Iyanden survived Kraken was because Yriel managed to kill the Hive Tyrant, which single handily crippled the Tyranid forces on the Craftworld. By the time Yriel engaged the Tyrant, the Eldar battlelines had been completely overrun, so no, he wasn't "supported by an army" when he killed the Tyrant. He basically just cut a swathe through the Tyran'ts guard and then killed it in single combat, and that ended the fight.

Similarly, if a force that's infinitely smaller than Kraken is spread out over an entire planet, then obviously the number of Tyranids doesn't matter. Maugan Ra need only fight the main Synapse creature on the planet and whatever Tyranids are surrounding it at the time. Again, while that's obviously highly impressive, it isn't nearly as impressive as people are making it out to be, especially for an immortal Phoenix Lord who's been fighting for like 30,000 years.

Not quite, clearly states in the fluff (funnily enough I read that story a few hours ago) that the tyranid survivors were hunted and elimated, although it does state it was a one sided battle it is hardly 'that ended the fight' unless the remaining, which would be a LOT, tyranids put the white flag up?, it even states the remaining tyranids revert back to their base instinct.

You are assuming you know the size of the tyranids on Stormvald you dont and nor does anyone else, but it the other fluff it shows how adaptable the tyranids are and how they view the gaunts as cannon fodder, the synpase creature wont show himself until he thinks he will win.

It's amusing that people are still trying to use logic to either support or go against the Draigo bit of background. It's quite obviously meant to be banzai, batman-KAPOW, bible-epic rolled into one, and not taken literally. Everything we know about the warp, as described in every piece of background in every book where it has been described, has shown the warp to be utterly inimical to life - read any one of the accounts of ships where the gellar field has failed even for a moment, and that is only with partial exposure, and the results are deadly. In Deliverance Lost (to cite one example) where a ship went into the warp unprotected - in the chaotic matter of the immaterium the crew are killed horribly in moments. So, 'bestriding the warp' is essentially the equivalent of going for a dip in molten rock, wearing a pair of speedos.

So, I think the key to 'repairing' Draigo's fluff is to realise that it's not meant to be taken literally. Once you do that, in the same way that Marneus Calgar didn't really stop an entire Ork army on his own for a day and a night, and that it is the kind of thing that would be whispered in the space marine-playground between excitable initiates, then the whole thing becomes easier to digest. To view it in any other way is laughable, and cheapens the whole 40k universe and background.

Personally thought, and I think even viewed in that context, I think it goes too far. As though over-excitable 13-year old fans had been sat around a table drunk, and spent hours trying to come up with the most ridiculous, over the top example of badassery possible, no matter how improbable.

Question:
What is the most inhospitable place in the universe? More dangerous than the core of a supernova, more feared than death itself?
Answer: The warp.

Question:
Who are the hardest baddasses in the galaxy?
Answer: The Primarchs. Make it one of the daemon ones, so he's immortal like. And, not one of the wimpy ones like Lorgar. Make it Mortarion, who has often been depicted as death/the grim reaper himself in daemon form. That's right, so he has basically killed death. And, even though he has been a daemon for ten thousand years, Mortarion still has a heart. Which heart by the way? It doesn't matter, but he carves his name onto it, with a swiss army knife. Then he leaves him, 'just'.

As a rule of thumb, if you can imagine reading it in a Black Library novel, then it's fair to assume that it could be a historical account. Let's face it, if this bit of background was written in anything other than a shiny and expensive codex, and in particular if it had been posted on this website as fanfic, then it would get absolutely ripped to pieces. The only rational response to it, if you consider yourself to be a fan of the 40k universe at all, is to laugh along with it and recognise it for what it is; a ridiculous series of hyperbole, not meant to be taken seriously, and surely designed to enrage internet fan communities everywhere

Okay so the short version:

Draigo gets yanked into the Warp by that one Daemon. After putting up one hell of a fight in the Warp, he finally falls. However, the Emperor - in his corpse state - is able to partially secure Draigo's soul and creates him into a sort of eternal champion. Now, this "angel" (daemon really) of the Emperor's silently battles the spawn of chaos, damned to eternally repeat his last moments of life, always to fall, always to rise again to resume his battle. At times when the Immaterium rips it's way into the Materium, Draigo can be seen keeping occupied many a daemon in battle, staunching the flow of chaos just enough that the Imperium has hope to close up these rifts. The Grey Knights, knowing full well what Draigo has become, have sworn off appointing a new Grand Master for as long as this shell of Draigo battles chaos, he is their leader and inspiration reminding them that not even in death does duty end.

Okay, here is how Draigo should end:

Lord Kaldor Draigo felt his presence well before he saw the warmonger come. Still, he gripped his sword all the more tightly.

The Fields of Pleasure were simply one more daemon warped land that Lord Kaldor Draigo had to cross again for the hundredth time. Each sinuous stalk of wild flower wafted with the twisted pleasures of the God of Pleasure. Flairs of color danced in the sky above, and the menagerie of twisted abominations that flitted through the long grass moaned in desire and frolicked in unabashed bliss. What few sentient minions of Slaanesh were around knew well to steer clear of the Grey Knight lord as he stood atop a hillock, the perfume scented breezes wafting around the mighty mortal. His personal conviction so strong, the landscape of changing tactile senses never bothered him.

If he wanted to, the land would burn under his righteous might. Everything would twist to his immense psychic powers and quash under his master crafted weapons. The Emperor’s hand could reach out and smite anything Draigo wanted.

But the Chapter Master learned constraint and patience in his permanent wandering of the Warp. Giving in to personal vices would only play into the hands of one or more of the Chaos Gods, using him as an instrument in their Great Game. Destruction was fleeting here, and one or more desecrated landscapes would replace the one that the warrior destroyed.

The presence finally appeared as a silhouette against the mad skyline, persistently drudging towards Draigo, hours away from the Chapter Master’s location yet inexorably coming. He emanated hate and rage that spanned eons; it would have done the Lord of Battle proud to see such brimming animosity. But Draigo knew that was only a small fraction of the man’s real desire. It wasn’t just murderous rage that drove the ancient warrior. His plans to upend the Imperium spoke of an intellect far beyond normal web weavers. His swath of death and destruction fed the maggots and worms that grew in his wake. And above all that, his desire for revenge drove him, pushed him continuously on a singular path that would do nothing less than conquer the galaxy and destroy every fabrication created by the Emperor.

Lord Kaldor Draigo would not allow that.

Hours passed and the sky shifted from day to night three times while the Grey Knight waited, the figure growing larger and larger as he approached. His ornamented terminator armor becoming the first distinct outlines he could see. The amazing and deathly daemonic weapon that always danced through the bodies of enemies and soaked in their blood came unsheathed not too long after. And his eyes. When Draigo finally locked stares with the dark warlord, he knew he saw the end of everything within, of a pain that went far beyond mortal memory and transcended anything that the Grey Knight ever thought a human could possess.

Draigo stood less than twenty paces from the man as he stared up the small incline that Draigo perched upon, the pink sun dipping in the horizon for the fourth time since the Grey Knight entered Slaanesh’s realm.

“You know I will not allow you to pursue your agenda, Abbadon,” said the Grey Knight.

The Warmaster smiled a rictus grin. “Heh, you think you can stop my grand design? Why do you think I sought you out? Why would I find a single person trapped within the warp and unable to influence anything outside his cage?”

“Because you knew I could still stop you before you even began. You know my cage opens from time to time, and I use that window of opportunity very well.”

Abbadon barked a laugh. “Hah! The cage only opens when my masters desire to play with their dog. Do you think anything you have done when free was not seen by Tzeentch or fed the needs of any of the other gods?”

The armored space marine shook his head. “Your false conviction clouds you from the truth. You eat the lies of the Lord of Lies, and then come before me thinking that what they whisper in your ear will come to fruition? What happened during your last Crusade, Warmaster?”

The Chaos champion’s smile wavered into a grin and his eyes flickered briefly in a wince. Draigo knew that the last attempt to secure the Cadian gate and unleash hell across the expanse of the Imperium ended in stalemate and then disaster. It took the combined might of the Segmentum Obscurus to drive back the forces of Chaos, but it was accomplished after much bloodshed had occurred.

“As always, it was planned out,” Abbadon said. “Defeat is but momentary for me, as I have outlived all mere mortals and slew all my rivals before my wrath. Those I let live are no consequence to me, and things left unconquered are done by my grand design.

“That is why I come to you today, dear Draigo.” His smile grew wider as he brought his sword Drach'nyento bear, the daemon contained within growing thirsty for souls.

“You will not kill me today, and you will not leave here to continue your plans.” Draigo brought his own mighty weapon to bear, the Titansword.

In one final maniacal burst of laughter, Abbadon leaped into the air, raising his massive sword to strike in one hand. His other armored gauntlet with sharp talons popped off several bolter rounds in midflight, smacking into the nigh impenetrable storm shield that Draigo raised.

Roaring in defiance, the Grey Knight lit his sword with azure flames, conjuring his massive psychic energy for the first strike. Planting his feet, he pulled back and swung his own sword, its tip raking the ground as it rose to meet the strike of the Warmaster.

Purified metal pounded against unholy metal as the two swords met, the weight of Abbadon’s fall and heavy terminator armor pushed Draigo back. Getting back on his feet, the fallen space marine wasted no time in executing his next attack, spinning with sword and clawed hand as he began to assail the floundering Chapter Master.

But the holy warrior of the Imperium was not easy prey. The initial strike over, he began parrying the Warmaster’s every assault, his shield coming up to pick off the sword and his Titansword to fend off the claw. He kept a defensive stance, assessing his foe as Abbadon struck time and time again without finding a flaw in his defense.

Snarling, Abbadon executed a roundhouse swing with his sword, the massive weapon flaring with purple energy as he sought the killing blow. He was met with the blazing shield of the Grey Knight, its emblazed sigil flaring into blinding light as the weapon contacted, and then was repulsed by the gifted buffer.

Draigo wasted no time, and stabbed forward with his sword, plunging it into the terminator armor of the Warmaster. At the last second, Abbadon grasped the Titansword with his clawed hand, the Talons of Horus, and through sheer strength, prevented the weapon from diving in deeper. Draigo pushed harder, causing the Chaos traitor to bend to his knees, his sword arm paralyzed and his other hand barely keeping the sword from inflicting a mortal wound. Both men locked stares, determination and bitterness crossing Abbadon’s face as he looked into the visored visage of the Grey Knight Chapter Master. Both of them knew what was to come next.

“I know you will not yield, corrupted one. Destroying you bodily will not end you either. I will enter your mind and strip it clean, killing you in soul before I rend your body asunder. You are a fool for challenging me,” said Draigo as his entire body became a beacon of pure light, his psychic powers rippling outward as he reached deep inside of himself to draw out all that he was, all that he fought for, and all that he intended to do to end the threat of the Warmaster before he could launch his latest plan to destroy the Imperium.

Abbadon’s mouth trickled with blood. And yet he smiled widely. He dropped his sword while Draigo became an incandescent bonfire of righteous might, and reached into a side pouch for a small device, pulling out a cube of pitch black nothingness.

“And you are a fool for thinking I came to kill you. I intend to use you instead.”

Too late, Draigo saw the miniature weapon, and tried to pull back his sword amidst the swirl of fire and energy that swirled like a tempest between the two of them. How did Abbadon manage to acquire such a device he thought as his sword would not budge, the Chaos Warmaster’s grip still remaining strong.

Abbadon tossed the tiny cube with his free hand, and the thing smacked Draigo in his face. Instantaneously, the weapon flared with anti- light, darkness spawned from the strongest black holes and unholier than any nightmare conjured by mortal sin. It consumed the emanations of Draigo, and then consumed the Chapter Master itself as the darkness leaked into the armor and body of the stricken man. Draigo’s body shook and shuddered as it attempted to fight the encroaching darkness, but it was futile. The cube was attracted to powerful psychic emanations, completely harmless against those without any psychic capabilities. To a man like Draigo, it was a potent weapon more powerful than any Daemon spawned creation was capable of doing to the indomitable man.

With one final shudder, Lord Kaldor Draigo slumped. Abbadon pulled the sword out of his gut and wrenched it from his foe’s limp hand and tossed it aside. Rising, he stood over the dull eyed Draigo as the cube remained firmly fastened to the defeated man’s head.

“The Oblivion Cube was supposed to be the Necrotyr’s final answer to the threat of the Warp millions of years ago. It was to fuel a device the size of a planetary system, sundering the link between the Warp and reality for all time. At the end of the War of Heaven, the Eldar Gods spirited the core of the weapon away, hiding it from time and space itself so no one may ever use it.”

“Tzeentch however saw where it was hidden. Nigh infinite strings of fate were pulled so that the chance would come for me to obtain the cube. I did not hesitate.”

Draigo’s eyes shifted upward, gaining a glimmer of consciousness as his body still did not respond.

Abbadon laughed. “You will not die, as the device was never meant to be used without being contained within a greater weapon. But for my needs, the condensed essence of a dozen black holes is sufficient enough for me to suck out every ounce of psychic energy that you wield. With it, I can go forward with my plans to destroy the Imperium…and it will be all thanks to your own power!”

The Grey Knight Chapter Master, the strongest space marine in all the living Imperium, managed to twitch a single finger as his determination fought against the paralysis, his body and mind unable to break the mental lock encasing him.

The Warmaster grabbed the lifeless champion and pulled his head up to eye level. “It is futile Draigo. You cannot escape the Oblivion Cube. So long as you are glued to it, you’re incapable of doing anything. But in order for it to work, I need you alive and attached to the device. So…”

With one heave, Abbadon hoisted Draigo’s body upon his shoulder. Turning, the Chaos Warmaster walked back the way he came.

“You will be coming with me,” he continued. “Since I still have need of you, I will be giving you a front row seat to the end. Not only will you be the cause of it, but you will watch every single second of my grand design play out. And all you can do is watch, watch as I do what Horus could not and take everything the Emperor ever made and turn it to dust.”

Draigo raged, yelling and screaming inside the prison that was his mind, completely and utterly helpless as he sagged across the back of the man who promised to end everything that the Grey Knight fought to protect.

Rewrite it in language that doesn't make Draigo out to be DA BADDEST OF DA BAD DUDES and instead plays on the sisyphean nature of his story.

Instead of it coming off like an author's literary masturbation to his own creation, it could sound like the actual tragic story it is.

Fanboys wouldn't need to defend it if the concept had been properly executed. It's actually a pretty good idea, but is written in such terrible language that instead focuses on Draigo's achievements instead of the hopeless nature of his struggle.

MarkyMark wrote:Not quite, clearly states in the fluff (funnily enough I read that story a few hours ago) that the tyranid survivors were hunted and elimated, although it does state it was a one sided battle it is hardly 'that ended the fight' unless the remaining, which would be a LOT, tyranids put the white flag up?, it even states the remaining tyranids revert back to their base instinct.

I stated that the death of the Tyrant "broke the back" of the Tyranid forces on the Craftworld, thus, everything you've said here is irrelevant to my post.

You are assuming you know the size of the tyranids on Stormvald you dont

I specifically said in one of my posts above that we don't know how big the Tyranid force was on Stormvlad, so you're being rather disingenuous here.

but it the other fluff it shows how adaptable the tyranids are and how they view the gaunts as cannon fodder, the synpase creature wont show himself until he thinks he will win.

Maugan Ra was the only enemy opposing the Tyranid on the entire planet. That is obviously a scenario in which the Tyranid would "think it's won". You're speaking nonsense here, sir.

Doesnt need the language changed, just expanded same as maugan ra with the whole stopped a splinter of a hive fleet, so yes i agree the execution was bad, it makes it sound like he did it cause he could and thats that.

Pacific wrote:It's amusing that people are still trying to use logic to either support or go against the Draigo bit of background. It's quite obviously meant to be banzai, batman-KAPOW, bible-epic rolled into one, and not taken literally. Everything we know about the warp, as described in every piece of background in every book where it has been described, has shown the warp to be utterly inimical to life - read any one of the accounts of ships where the gellar field has failed even for a moment, and that is only with partial exposure, and the results are deadly. In Deliverance Lost (to cite one example) where a ship went into the warp unprotected - in the chaotic matter of the immaterium the crew are killed horribly in moments. So, 'bestriding the warp' is essentially the equivalent of going for a dip in molten rock, wearing a pair of speedos.

Not quite. In the second book of the Night Lords trilogy, one of the Astral Claw traitors gets caught outside of a ship during warp-flight. He isn't killed- merely transformed into a Nurgle-corrupted beast.

So, while the Warp is obviously hostile to living creatures, an individual can certainly survive in it, with the right powers backing him. That would fit the theory that Draigo is being aided by the Emperor or even the Chaos Gods themselves.

I'd use the childhood prayer-wish-fulfilment angle.

"Please grud, make it didn't happen."

The only way to fix the Draigo fluff is to make it never have been. but I say this of pretty much all fluff post 2nd ed.

Draigo awakens to find that all the time he spent killing what he thought were Daemons, were actually Space Marines and Humans

Then the hand of Tzeentch's champion pats him on the shoulder, and says "Well Done"

Easiest way to fix Draigo fluff would be to just make him an Ultramarine. You wouldn't even need to change any of the fluff that's already there. All Ward would have to do is add a single sentence to the end of Draigo's excerpt: "Secretly, he was an Ultramarine." Done. We'd all reaad that and go "Oooooh, this all makes sense now."

Harriticus wrote:That was 109 Grey Knights, of which only 13 survived. Plus as you see in The Emperor's Gift, even that victory was barely won.

And how many were at the Draigo/Mortarion battle? You really think Mortarion would enter the real world for anything other than a truly major incursion? You really think the Supreme Grandmaster of the Grey Knights was just going for a walk by himself? The event was clearly a major battle between the two factions

Right now he's basically unstoppable.

But useless. All that power, but he's completely impotent. That's much more interesting to me.

BlaxicanX wrote:[ I again point out that the actual size and disposition of the fleet Ra destroyed is undefined.

How could the size of the force he destroyed possibly matter? Think of the smallest possible splinter fleet: A single ship. Now explain to me how on earth a single person is going to be able to destroy that ship?

Pacific wrote:Everything we know about the warp, as described in every piece of background in every book where it has been described, has shown the warp to be utterly inimical to life

So what assumptions can we draw that?

That he violates every known law? Probably not.

That it's allegorical or mythological in nature? Nothing to suggest that.

That the Chaos Gods want him to be there? The only possible explanation, IMO.