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Fire Dragons are a must have in an Eldar army, while the rest is situational, with Harlies next.
FD's can take on any tank or MC and bring it down. I generally took two small units working in concert.

warpspider89 wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
None of the above. They're all terrible.

They were all listed above... so you would not take any elite unit?

That is correct. They are all too little return, too situationally, for too high a cost.

I couldn't disagree more about Fire Dragons. They're incredibly effective for their cost and almost always have an effect on the battle. They tend to take down expensive targets easily too.

The other elites do cost too much for what they achieve though. I rarely find myself taking them, but if I do it's Harlies. I used to like Scorpions but now that they can't assault from outflank they're much less useful against the back field shooting elements I was using them to kill.

 dnanoodle wrote:
I couldn't disagree more about Fire Dragons. They're incredibly effective for their cost and almost always have an effect on the battle. They tend to take down expensive targets easily too.

The other elites do cost too much for what they achieve though. I rarely find myself taking them, but if I do it's Harlies. I used to like Scorpions but now that they can't assault from outflank they're much less useful against the back field shooting elements I was using them to kill.

Well, Harlies are also situational. If you run a fully footslogging army, they can be held back for counter-strike. This should be rather easy to pull.
However, in a mech or semi-mech army, when your tanks advance, it can be much harder to get the Harlies into charge range. Watch out for flamers from deep strikers, outflankers, or fast moving units.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Small squads of Fire Dragons (5 men) can get the job done (popping any tank). For 80 pts, its a suicide unit but they always (twice or triple) pay back their pts.

I feel like this changed in 6th edition. It wasn't so rare to keep the serpent alive after Fragons were gone in 5th edition. It could easily be used to contest objectives. Right now with 3+ to hit in close combat the serpent is almost surely gone so the price of Fire Dragons "increased".
But to pick one: if you take allies into consideration, I'd say Harlequins (barely over Fragons and way, waaaay above anything else). Wraithguard belong into troops, Striking Scorpions were never incredible and they gave gotten worse, Banshees are this edition Swooping Hawks.

 Macok wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Small squads of Fire Dragons (5 men) can get the job done (popping any tank). For 80 pts, its a suicide unit but they always (twice or triple) pay back their pts.

I feel like this changed in 6th edition. It wasn't so rare to keep the serpent alive after Fragons were gone in 5th edition. It could easily be used to contest objectives. Right now with 3+ to hit in close combat the serpent is almost surely gone so the price of Fire Dragons "increased".
But to pick one: if you take allies into consideration, I'd say Harlequins (barely over Fragons and way, waaaay above anything else). Wraithguard belong into troops, Striking Scorpions were never incredible and they gave gotten worse, Banshees are this edition Swooping Hawks.

Well, I don't think that the ''price'' of the Fire Dragons increased.
I played so many games with my Eldar and the Fire Dragons were almost always delivered to their destiny. The enemy never had a chance to charge the delivering Serpent before the FD's got out of it.

Wraithguard are the eldar termies... love them in 6th. Soooo solid.

Nologik wrote:
Wraithguard are the eldar termies... love them in 6th. Soooo solid.

Not really.

Think about a battle cannon, S8 and AP3.
Wraithguard can have a 5+ cover save from conceal and a reroll from being fortuned,
while Termies have a 2+ armour save.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I don't think that the ''price'' of the Fire Dragons increased.
I played so many games with my Eldar and the Fire Dragons were almost always delivered to their destiny. The enemy never had a chance to charge the delivering Serpent before the FD's got out of it.

I'm not talking about destroyed Serpent before but after the delivery.
You still paid 100 points minimum for the transporter and if you want to get rid of your target fast you won't be able to do anything else with it. If it gets wrecked along with it's contests you have to include it's cost.
You paid 180 points for Dragons and Serpent not just 80 for Dragons. In previous edition Serpent was "recyclable", in this more often than not it isn't. It depends on your "meta" of course.

 Macok wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I don't think that the ''price'' of the Fire Dragons increased.
I played so many games with my Eldar and the Fire Dragons were almost always delivered to their destiny. The enemy never had a chance to charge the delivering Serpent before the FD's got out of it.

I'm not talking about destroyed Serpent before but after the delivery.
You still paid 100 points minimum for the transporter and if you want to get rid of your target fast you won't be able to do anything else with it. If it gets wrecked along with it's contests you have to include it's cost.
You paid 180 points for Dragons and Serpent not just 80 for Dragons. In previous edition Serpent was "recyclable", in this more often than not it isn't. It depends on your "meta" of course.

In fact, the Serpents do not last very long when the enemy is able to charge them.
On the other hand, they are still resilient when the enemy shoots them. Here target saturation is key.

The original poster asked what was the best elite choice. And you could only pic one, which is best? Well point for point dragons. But the best is Wraithguard hands down. No contest.

Nologik wrote:
The original poster asked what was the best elite choice. And you could only pic one, which is best? Well point for point dragons. But the best is Wraithguard hands down. No contest.

For starters that first statement makes no sense lol, point for point = best. Wraithguard are not Terminators and aren't even close to them in terms of effectiveness, 400 points of Wraithguard will get routinely smashed by 400 points of Terminators (of any type). 400 points of Dragons on the other hand will actually make a serious mess of 400 points of Terminators assuming you can deliver them, and unlike the Wraithguard you might actually be able to shoot more than once with them once you get into range since you would have multiple units.

 wuestenfux wrote:

Nologik wrote:
Wraithguard are the eldar termies... love them in 6th. Soooo solid.

Not really.

Think about a battle cannon, S8 and AP3.
Wraithguard can have a 5+ cover save from conceal and a reroll from being fortuned,
while Termies have a 2+ armour save.

Not if you run them with the Baron. That's 4+ re-rollable in the open.

I like eldar for 4 things:

+Fast/mobile scoring units and firepower
+Strength six spam
+Fire dragons are dirt cheap offensive models.
+They have killer psychic defense that also helps shore up your weaknesses and provide floating buffs.

They have other neato things, but those for me form the core.
Remember there's still a lot of the game that revolves around movement, moreso now with wrapping casualties.

Fire Dragons is the best bet, with Harlies second if you need a counter-strike unit in a footdar list or a flanking unit in a semi-mech army.

Wraithguard is only viable if taken in the troop section. Otherwise, don't bother for the reason already explained above.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Fire Dragons is the best bet, with Harlies second if you need a counter-strike unit in a footdar list or a flanking unit in a semi-mech army.

Wraithguard is only viable if taken in the troop section. Otherwise, don't bother for the reason already explained above.

Wouldnt wraithguard still be overly expensive even as a troop choice? After all you could take a 90 pt team of rangers just as easily and your more likely to earn your points with them.

warpspider89 wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Fire Dragons is the best bet, with Harlies second if you need a counter-strike unit in a footdar list or a flanking unit in a semi-mech army.

Wraithguard is only viable if taken in the troop section. Otherwise, don't bother for the reason already explained above.

Wouldnt wraithguard still be overly expensive even as a troop choice? After all you could take a 90 pt team of rangers just as easily and your more likely to earn your points with them.

Wraithguard is good when you play an Iyanden force, with at least 10 Wraithguard, Wraithseer (FW), and 1-3 Wraithlords.

Hmm...interesting. So much info to take in haha. I guess I am going for an Alaitoc army. Almost to the point of going for a bit of everything but focusing on most-useful units first.

Alaitoc was great in the 3rd edition. They had a disruption table affecting the enemy from worse to worst.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Alaitoc was great in the 3rd edition. They had a disruption table affecting the enemy from worse to worst.

There are no craft world bonuses anymore though, at least until we see what the new codex has to offer.

I take 10wraithguard and spirit seer now. No wraithlords, and I still win.
I will have to disagree on the whole 400 pts termies v 400 pts guard. It would be a close fight to be sure, but not getting smashed.
I have played quite a few games of 6th and I have yet to lose a full squad of wraithguard, but I have killed my fair share of termies.

Also we forget that each Eldar unit cannot survive on its own, we are not space marines, our units need synergy with our list, that is how we Eldar win.

Nologik wrote:
I take 10wraithguard and spirit seer now. No wraithlords, and I still win.
I will have to disagree on the whole 400 pts termies v 400 pts guard. It would be a close fight to be sure, but not getting smashed.
I have played quite a few games of 6th and I have yet to lose a full squad of wraithguard, but I have killed my fair share of termies.

Also we forget that each Eldar unit cannot survive on its own, we are not space marines, our units need synergy with our list, that is how we Eldar win.

All well said, and I completely agree. Those 10 Wraithcannon shots should put a few Termies down before they even make contact.

Nologik wrote:
I take 10wraithguard and spirit seer now. No wraithlords, and I still win.
I will have to disagree on the whole 400 pts termies v 400 pts guard. It would be a close fight to be sure, but not getting smashed.
I have played quite a few games of 6th and I have yet to lose a full squad of wraithguard, but I have killed my fair share of termies.

Also we forget that each Eldar unit cannot survive on its own, we are not space marines, our units need synergy with our list, that is how we Eldar win.

If you've paid 400 points for a unit, and it still can't survive on it's own, somewhere a mistake has been made.

I don't play Wraithguard, but I was never under the impression that the point of a 10man troops unit of them was there to kill terminators. Do they not hold objectives and refuse to die? Iyanden style armies that I have seen generally have plenty other things to kill terminators. They probably have an Avatar, some WLs and Scatter Walkers. Maybe Harlies to counter assault. There's that synergy. Even a 400 point unit needs support or it will be ineffective.

Something else is that Wraithguard are not a combat unit. If they're on an objective in cover I bet you can get two volleys of wraith cannons against those Termies before they can assault. Between that and some lasers they should be dead pretty fast. Comparing how WG do against Termies in combat does not say anything of the unit's true strengths.

And I agree with wuestenfux about Harlequins. I know some people are taking them as a Deathstar with an Archon, but I don't think that's terribly hard to counter. Some Sternguard or a Whirlwind or anything like that would make a mockery of that expensive unit. Their rightful place in an army is threatening units that want to come get your objective campers and shooty infantry, like Rangers and Dark Reapers.

 dnanoodle wrote:
I don't play Wraithguard, but I was never under the impression that the point of a 10man troops unit of them was there to kill terminators. Do they not hold objectives and refuse to die? Iyanden style armies that I have seen generally have plenty other things to kill terminators. They probably have an Avatar, some WLs and Scatter Walkers. Maybe Harlies to counter assault. There's that synergy. Even a 400 point unit needs support or it will be ineffective.

Something else is that Wraithguard are not a combat unit. If they're on an objective in cover I bet you can get two volleys of wraith cannons against those Termies before they can assault. Between that and some lasers they should be dead pretty fast. Comparing how WG do against Termies in combat does not say anything of the unit's true strengths.

And I agree with wuestenfux about Harlequins. I know some people are taking them as a Deathstar with an Archon, but I don't think that's terribly hard to counter. Some Sternguard or a Whirlwind or anything like that would make a mockery of that expensive unit. Their rightful place in an army is threatening units that want to come get your objective campers and shooty infantry, like Rangers and Dark Reapers.

This. In a nuthsell.

Wraithguard can score.

Harlequins are better in melee, Fire Dragons are awesome at popping tanks and 2+ saves.

From a Paladin perspective, Fire Dragons are fething SCARY.

 dnanoodle wrote:
. If they're on an objective in cover I bet you can get two volleys of wraith cannons against those Termies before they can assault

Explain how a 12" gun gets to shoot twice against anything that wants to charge it? 12' is inside assault range.

Overwatch or w/e its called. One shot as BS4 another at BS1.

Say you have a 10m squad shooting at TH/SS Terminators. You'll land 6.67 hits, 5.56 wounds, 1.85 kills, get charged, do 1.67 hits, .46 kills. 2.3 kills on average. Against LC Terminators it would be much more effective.

Amaya wrote:Overwatch or w/e its called. One shot as BS4 another at BS1.

Say you have a 10m squad shooting at TH/SS Terminators. You'll land 6.67 hits, 5.56 wounds, 1.85 kills, get charged, do 1.67 hits, .46 kills. 2.3 kills on average. Against LC Terminators it would be much more effective.

Just to complete the mathhammer here so you can see the huge issues with Wraithguard. After Overwatch the Wraithguard attack and get 0.55 wound through. Assuming we are generous and round up to 3 kills, 7 TH/SS Terminators get 10 hits and 8 wounds, which almost completely wipes the unit in one go. If you are a tad unlucky you only kill 2 Terminators, and then you do lose all the Wraithguard in a single turn. Basically there is something seriously wrong with the effectiveness/rules of a unit when it has a weapon which can kill anything in the game, but requires 5 rounds to shooting to kill an equivalent point unit.