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Both hard to hit and the seeker say resolved at right? and the resolved at wording was mooted as meaning that it hit at bs1 so if they both have the resolved at wording what does that mean?

Hehe, good call :-P

Do you get my point though? It's not actually using a BS. It's just following the markerlight to the target. Rolling a 1 is an automatic failure for anything in the game, in this case I just assume the missile jams or it's seeking sensors are malfunctioning.

Mega_Nob wrote:
Hehe, good call :-P

Do you get my point though? It's not actually using a BS. It's just following the markerlight to the target. Rolling a 1 is an automatic failure for anything in the game, in this case I just assume the missile jams or it's seeking sensors are malfunctioning.

I do understand and I wish they'd just be like oh yea count the seeker missiles as having Skyfire. However right now they don't have it.

I hear that!! It says in the fluff that they are there as AA support so it would make sense.

The magic words I follow are in the codex though:

"Allows a vehicle to fire a single seeker missile at the marked unit ((being a flyer in this case)). This is resolved normally in all regards at an assumed ballistic skill of 5".

Mega_Nob wrote:
I hear that!! It says in the fluff that they are there as AA support so it would make sense.

The magic words I follow are in the codex though:

"Allows a vehicle to fire a single seeker missile at the marked unit ((being a flyer in this case)). This is resolved normally in all regards at an assumed ballistic skill of 5".

Guess that would be a clash Codex>BGB than.

"Shots resolved at a zooming flyer can only be resolved as snap shots" Pg 81 BGB

I can agree to that, they seem to contradict each other.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

Mega_Nob wrote:
I hear that!! It says in the fluff that they are there as AA support so it would make sense.

The magic words I follow are in the codex though:

"Allows a vehicle to fire a single seeker missile at the marked unit ((being a flyer in this case)). This is resolved normally in all regards at an assumed ballistic skill of 5".

Guess that would be a clash Codex>BGB than.

"Shots resolved at a zooming flyer can only be resolved as snap shots" Pg 81 BGB

I can agree to that, they seem to contradict each other.

There is no contradiciton. You can have your BS 5. I'll even let you have BS 10 against a flyer if you want. It dosent change the fact that whatever your BS is, it is resolved at BS 1.

 Vindicare-Obsession wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

Mega_Nob wrote:
I hear that!! It says in the fluff that they are there as AA support so it would make sense.

The magic words I follow are in the codex though:

"Allows a vehicle to fire a single seeker missile at the marked unit ((being a flyer in this case)). This is resolved normally in all regards at an assumed ballistic skill of 5".

Guess that would be a clash Codex>BGB than.

"Shots resolved at a zooming flyer can only be resolved as snap shots" Pg 81 BGB

I can agree to that, they seem to contradict each other.

There is no contradiciton. You can have your BS 5. I'll even let you have BS 10 against a flyer if you want. It dosent change the fact that whatever your BS is, it is resolved at BS 1.

Both say resolved one at 5 the other at 1. When there is a conflict Codex>Rulebook Pg 7 IIRC (bottom right hand side)

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 Vindicare-Obsession wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

Mega_Nob wrote:
I hear that!! It says in the fluff that they are there as AA support so it would make sense.

The magic words I follow are in the codex though:

"Allows a vehicle to fire a single seeker missile at the marked unit ((being a flyer in this case)). This is resolved normally in all regards at an assumed ballistic skill of 5".

Guess that would be a clash Codex>BGB than.

"Shots resolved at a zooming flyer can only be resolved as snap shots" Pg 81 BGB

I can agree to that, they seem to contradict each other.

There is no contradiciton. You can have your BS 5. I'll even let you have BS 10 against a flyer if you want. It dosent change the fact that whatever your BS is, it is resolved at BS 1.

Both say resolved one at 5 the other at 1. When there is a conflict Codex>Rulebook Pg 7 IIRC (bottom right hand side)

The codex says it's resolved normally in all regards. How do you normally resolve a shot against a flyer?

rigeld2 wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 Vindicare-Obsession wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

Mega_Nob wrote:
I hear that!! It says in the fluff that they are there as AA support so it would make sense.

The magic words I follow are in the codex though:

"Allows a vehicle to fire a single seeker missile at the marked unit ((being a flyer in this case)). This is resolved normally in all regards at an assumed ballistic skill of 5".

Guess that would be a clash Codex>BGB than.

"Shots resolved at a zooming flyer can only be resolved as snap shots" Pg 81 BGB

I can agree to that, they seem to contradict each other.

There is no contradiciton. You can have your BS 5. I'll even let you have BS 10 against a flyer if you want. It dosent change the fact that whatever your BS is, it is resolved at BS 1.

Both say resolved one at 5 the other at 1. When there is a conflict Codex>Rulebook Pg 7 IIRC (bottom right hand side)

The codex says it's resolved normally in all regards. How do you normally resolve a shot against a flyer?

Normally snap shots are fired at BS of 1 as well, but These fire off at BS5

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
Normally snap shots are fired at BS of 1 as well, but These fire off at BS5

They fire at BS5 for a normal resolution.
Are you asserting that a snap shot is a normal resolution of firing a shot?

rigeld2 wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
Normally snap shots are fired at BS of 1 as well, but These fire off at BS5

They fire at BS5 for a normal resolution.
Are you asserting that a snap shot is a normal resolution of firing a shot?

Alright than Rigeld. What do you think? RAW and RAI keeping to mind the FAQ.

Q: If a vehicle is reduced to Ballistic Skill 1 (because it is Shaken,
Stunned, for example) do its seeker missiles fire at Ballistic Skill 1 or
Ballistic Skill 5? (p29)
A: Ballistic Skill 5.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
Normally snap shots are fired at BS of 1 as well, but These fire off at BS5

They fire at BS5 for a normal resolution.
Are you asserting that a snap shot is a normal resolution of firing a shot?

Alright than Rigeld. What do you think? RAW and RAI keeping to mind the FAQ.

Q: If a vehicle is reduced to Ballistic Skill 1 (because it is Shaken,
Stunned, for example) do its seeker missiles fire at Ballistic Skill 1 or
Ballistic Skill 5? (p29)
A: Ballistic Skill 5.

I think that FAQ is irrelevant.

BRB FAQ wrote:Q: How do maelstroms, novas and beams – or indeed any weapon
that doesn’t need to roll To Hit or hits automatically – interact with
Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures? (p13)
A: Only Snap Shots can hit Zooming Flyers and Swooping
Flying Monstrous Creatures.

If you're firing at BS5 is it a snapshot? We know the answer is no, by definition.

rigeld2 wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
Normally snap shots are fired at BS of 1 as well, but These fire off at BS5

They fire at BS5 for a normal resolution.
Are you asserting that a snap shot is a normal resolution of firing a shot?

Alright than Rigeld. What do you think? RAW and RAI keeping to mind the FAQ.

Q: If a vehicle is reduced to Ballistic Skill 1 (because it is Shaken,
Stunned, for example) do its seeker missiles fire at Ballistic Skill 1 or
Ballistic Skill 5? (p29)
A: Ballistic Skill 5.

I think that FAQ is irrelevant.

BRB FAQ wrote:Q: How do maelstroms, novas and beams – or indeed any weapon
that doesn’t need to roll To Hit or hits automatically – interact with
Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures? (p13)
A: Only Snap Shots can hit Zooming Flyers and Swooping
Flying Monstrous Creatures.

If you're firing at BS5 is it a snapshot? We know the answer is no, by definition.

However if the vehicle is shaken it may only fire snap shots.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
However if the vehicle is shaken it may only fire snap shots.

Right, and the FAQ that deals with reducing your BS kicks in.

Shooting at a Flyer does not reduce your BS. Ever.

rigeld2 wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
However if the vehicle is shaken it may only fire snap shots.

Right, and the FAQ that deals with reducing your BS kicks in.

Shooting at a Flyer does not reduce your BS. Ever.

So what is the Difference between Snapshots and resolving as snapshots?

I see it brought up alot but I can't find anything in the book as to what the difference is.

Stop being so obtuse. It's quite clear the seeker missile is fired using snap shot. The FAQ has nothing to do with this subject matter.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
However if the vehicle is shaken it may only fire snap shots.

Right, and the FAQ that deals with reducing your BS kicks in.

Shooting at a Flyer does not reduce your BS. Ever.

So what is the Difference between Snapshots and resolving as snapshots?

I see it brought up alot but I can't find anything in the book as to what the difference is.

The only difference is that the wording is different. Something is, and then something is resolved "as if", or "at". This is difference enough. One is changing the physical rule, while the other changes the way the rule works in a certain circumstance.

Look at it this way, I have a magic stone that makes me act as if I am a wild animal, It does not make me a wild animal, I am still a human.

So, the FAQ says:

Q.If avehicle is reduced to Ballistic Skill 1 (because it is Shaken, or Stunned, *for example*.) do its seeker missiles fire at Ballistic Skill 1or Ballistic Skill 5?
A. BS5

It is asking about ANYTIME you are reduced to BS 1. So we shoot it at a flyer, we check the FAQ and it asks us "were you reduced to BS1?" To which we say "Yes." And the FAQ tells us to use "BS 5". Is this right?

The key words here being "for example". Shooting snap shots at a flyer is another example of your BS being reduced to 1 right?

No as snap shots do not reduce your BS, (same as overwatch does not reduce your BS) you just have to resolve as a snap shot which is BS1 from how I understand it

The examples given in the FAQ are if a vehicle is shaken or stunned, in these examples the vehicle "may only fire snap shots".

In the BRB it says : "If a model is forced to make snap shots rather than shoot normally, then it's BS is counted as being 1 for the purpose of those shots." Effectively reducing its BS to 1 from whatever it was.

Then it says in the flyer section: "Shots reslved at a zooming flyer can only be resolved as snap shots"

Therefore the FAQ deals with that saying the seeker is shot at BS5.

The FAQ says if your BS is reduced to 1 for any reason then your seeker still fires at BS5. Black and white in my eyes. And that's referencing the rulebook :-P

So you're ignoring the fact that you're not making a Snap Shot, merely resolving it as one?

It's black and white in my eyes that you're wrong.

rigeld2 wrote:
So you're ignoring the fact that you're not making a Snap Shot, merely resolving it as one?

It's black and white in my eyes that you're wrong.

What is the difference between a snap shot.

Vs

Resolving as a snap shot.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
So you're ignoring the fact that you're not making a Snap Shot, merely resolving it as one?

It's black and white in my eyes that you're wrong.

What is the difference between a snap shot.

Vs

Resolving as a snap shot.

One is a declared snap shot. The other is not - it's a normal shot that must be resolved at bs1.
You may not ever opt to take a snap shot. You can always opt to shoot at a flyer and resolve as a snap shot.

Does resolving as a snapshot reduce your ballistic skill?

Does making a snapshot reduce your ballistic skill?

Drager wrote:
Does resolving as a snapshot reduce your ballistic skill?

No.

Does making a snapshot reduce your ballistic skill?

Yes.

To me, it's because the Tau codex is just so old they didn't take any of this into account so we might just have to wait for a new codex sometime next year for a definite answer.

Anyway, my FLGS playing group had this same argument one time when the situation came up (against my Vendetta). It must have gone on * civilly* (that's how we weren't kicked out haha) for 20 minutes. Eventually, we just came to the house ruling that because the missile is a "Seeker Missile" (much like our modern day heat-seeking missiles) and is also fluff wise an "Anti-Air" weapon we allowed it the BS5. To the dismay of my Vendetta of course hahaha.

Here is to hoping they give seeker missiles skyfire... The current correct ruling means you need a 6 to hit with a high-priced markerlight for the privilege of rolling for a 6 with your one-shot high priced seeker missile. Even if it could hit with a 2, it is still crap. I have to roll a 6 with a markerlight - costing 12 to 30 points to field and then I have a 17% chance of still failing. Whereas if I fired say 3 scatter laser war walkers, I should generate 4 hits for 180 points and can do it again next turn... If I had 8 pathfinders with 2 marker drones it costs me 146 points, will average 1+ markerlight hits and generate about 1.5 hits with 20 points worth of one-shot missiles... And that is IF a seeker would hit on a 2+.

Given the wording of the Tau Seeker Missle, it is quite CLEAR that the reason the FAQ says that the Seeker Missile is not affected by Stunned/Shaken results is because the Vehicle is NOT in CONTROL of the Seeker Missile.

The Seeker Missile is there fore NOT firing as a Snapshot but as a regular shooting attack and thus CANNOT hit a Flyer.

This would make both the TAU and the BRB FAQ's consistent and do not contradict each other.

rigeld2 wrote:

Drager wrote:
Does resolving as a snapshot reduce your ballistic skill?

No.

Does making a snapshot reduce your ballistic skill?

Yes.

Why are these answers inconsistent? (trying to follow the argument here, not making a point)

Drager wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Drager wrote:
Does resolving as a snapshot reduce your ballistic skill?

No.

Does making a snapshot reduce your ballistic skill?

Yes.

Why are these answers inconsistent? (trying to follow the argument here, not making a point)

Because making a snap shot is not the same as resolving a normal shot as a snap shot.
In the latter case you're making a normal shot, but to resolve it as a snap shot you must use BS1. Your ballistic skill is still 5, so there's no reduction.