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 DeathReaper wrote:
GW does not, the person that asked the question does.

Notice the difference.

5 to 1 is a reduction in normal English, but the BRB calls that a Set Value.

GW posted the FAQ and put their logo, copyrights, and all else on it claiming that its their property. It's released on their site. They are the sole producer and publisher of Warhammer 40K FAQs and errata.

There is not a single quotation, citation, or credit given for any works other than GW. They are taking complete responsibilty and authority for the FAQ.

Do you honestly believe the question isn't GW's writing, verbiage, and understanding?

If the question is not official, the. The answer is meaningless, since the answer to an unofficial question is meaningless. What you are proposing invalidates every FAQ, and brings every document published by GW into question as "official" paperwork.

So please, tell me again why the wording in the question isn't valid.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
This boils down to the same thing that JoTWW does. FRP vs RFPaaC.

Firing a snap shot
Resolving as a snap shot.

At the end of the day.

RFP is not the same as FRPaaC
and
Firing a snap shot is not the same as resolving as a snap

So clarify the difference for me then, because currently the wording "resolve as a snap shot" has no real bearing the RAW of this situation.

And why is the seeker missile not a set value? It can't be modified in any other way. So how is it not a set value of a 2+ hit?

I don't understand the argument behind the "resolved" issue, probably because it has little weight like most arguments seen against the BS5. Resolved as a Snap shot means that it fires as a snap shot. Snap shots do not affect the set value of a seeker missile, as covered in the FAQ and repeatedly in this thread. Now unless someone provides a quote from the rule book or FAQ that specifically states that nothing EVER overrides snap shots, then this argument has been beaten to death.

Fragile wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
This boils down to the same thing that JoTWW does. FRP vs RFPaaC.

Firing a snap shot
Resolving as a snap shot.

At the end of the day.

RFP is not the same as FRPaaC
and
Firing a snap shot is not the same as resolving as a snap

So clarify the difference for me then, because currently the wording "resolve as a snap shot" has no real bearing the RAW of this situation.

Well than How else do you shoot a zooming flyer. The RAW does not tell you to snap fire does it?

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:


Well than How else do you shoot a zooming flyer. The RAW does not tell you to snap fire does it?

I'm not sure what your point is. You use snap shots to shoot fliers.

All serious this time, sorry for the banter
I have been in this debate twice before so let me throw down here.

So you have your Devilfish with a Seeker, Your Pathfinders just lit up a Storm Talon with all of a single Markerlight.
The Devilfish fires the missile. This is 'Activation of a Special Ability' as in BRB p.9 The 'Fish now goes through the sequence:

Base Ballistic skill .....3
Targetting array.........+1
Trigger 'Snapshot'....Ignore above, set to '1'----Player choses this event to happen first as per 'Multiple Modifiers'
Trigger 'S. Missile'....Ignore above, set to '5'----Player ends the calculation here concluding 'Multiple Modifiers'
--------------------------
End result: BS 5 was the last set value. Thats the game logic version. (Albeit contestable) Was this unclear?

The FAQ shows that you do fire at BS 5. As you all know by now it uses the word 'reduced'. In math word problems that does mean subtract, yes. Here that is not it's purpose. Note that it cites 'Shaken' and 'Stunned' as examples? They are both set values and the whole point was to cite them as such. They are in the game identical to 'Snap Shots'! All three state you get the 'set modifier of 1'! So the FAQ does in fact mean that they fire at BS 5 irregardless of the games rules. Because Specificity rules end at the most specific example in said FAQ, and never go back to BRB after that.

And because you were mentioning it. The game only calculates the BS once! It does not calculate a value going into the roll and another when you finish rolling. You must lock in a stat before you roll and use that stat to determine results. Other wise it would be like 'I have a BS 3!' *rolls dice, gets all 3's* 'Oh wait this one rule says I have BS 4!' Too late buster, you rolled at BS 3. Really mean and a bad example but you see where the possibility for confusion/cheating creeps in?

It is worth note that someone cited a very analytical thread in this same forum earlier (on page one of this thread.) Quite honestly, every single possible point is made there. In the end we came down (litterally the last post) with a completely left field rule that calls in to question if you fire at BS 5, even over riding the BS 1, because you chose not to use the Snap Shot BS 1, it is illegal to hit the flyer! Weird right?

 Savageconvoy wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:


Well than How else do you shoot a zooming flyer. The RAW does not tell you to snap fire does it?

I'm not sure what your point is. You use snap shots to shoot fliers.

No, RAW you resolve them as snap shots.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:


Well than How else do you shoot a zooming flyer. The RAW does not tell you to snap fire does it?

I'm not sure what your point is. You use snap shots to shoot fliers.

No, RAW you resolve them as snap shots.

And how is that affecting the Seeker missile? Fire as if it were a snap shot? It still fires at BS5. I don't understand your point.

If a vehicle is shaken or stunned what is its BS?
If a vehicle fires at a Flyer what is its BS?
Hint: They are not the same (assuming normal situations).

Happyjew wrote:
If a vehicle is shaken or stunned what is its BS?
If a vehicle fires at a Flyer what is its BS?
Hint: They are not the same (assuming normal situations).

How so?
Hint: You're wrong.

At this point I am going to keep saying your wrong and you are going to keep saying I 'm and both our post counts will up.... Yay!!

I will start.

Your WRONG...you need 6's to hit Zooming Flyer.

 Savageconvoy wrote:

Happyjew wrote:
If a vehicle is shaken or stunned what is its BS?
If a vehicle fires at a Flyer what is its BS?
Hint: They are not the same (assuming normal situations).

How so?
Hint: You're wrong.

Let's edit a bit.

Shaken or stunned and attempts to shoot, what's its BS? BS of 1
Fires at a flyer, what is your bs. Normal however it must be resolved as a snap shot.

You do with marker lights. Then the seeker missile hits on a 2+.

You're mostly right.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nobody has provided a single example of how RESOLVED is any different than FIRING AS

Even if it was different, the Seekers set value would over ride.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
You do with marker lights. Then the seeker missile hits on a 2+.

You're mostly right.

No, your wrong BS of Snap shot cannot be affected by a Merkerlight .

See BRB FAQ v1a

 Savageconvoy wrote:
You do with marker lights. Then the seeker missile hits on a 2+.

You're mostly right.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nobody has provided a single example of how RESOLVED is any different than FIRING AS

Even if it was different, the Seekers set value would over ride.

well I'm sorry if you want to snap shot a flyer you cannot as there are no rules for it.

You are only allowed to resolve shots as snapfire against them.

oh by the way, you fire simply by choosing a target and rolling a d6.

You resolve by comparing your BS + D6 roll to the To Hit Chart to determine whether or not you hit your target.

That is the difference between "Firing" and "Resolved"

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
You do with marker lights. Then the seeker missile hits on a 2+.

You're mostly right.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nobody has provided a single example of how RESOLVED is any different than FIRING AS

Even if it was different, the Seekers set value would over ride.

well I'm sorry if you want to snap shot a flyer you cannot as there are no rules for it.

You are only allowed to resolve shots as snapfire against them.

Actually there are rules for trying to fire a Snap shot at a Flyer. You cannot, as then you are choosing to fire a Snap Shot (which is disallowed).

40k-noob wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
You do with marker lights. Then the seeker missile hits on a 2+.

You're mostly right.

No, your wrong BS of Snap shot cannot be affected by a Merkerlight .

See BRB FAQ v1a

marker light isn't affecting the BS, its using a seeker missile which is a set value of 2+


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Happyjew wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
You do with marker lights. Then the seeker missile hits on a 2+.

You're mostly right.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nobody has provided a single example of how RESOLVED is any different than FIRING AS

Even if it was different, the Seekers set value would over ride.

well I'm sorry if you want to snap shot a flyer you cannot as there are no rules for it.

You are only allowed to resolve shots as snapfire against them.

Actually there are rules for trying to fire a Snap shot at a Flyer. You cannot, as then you are choosing to fire a Snap Shot (which is disallowed).

Quote the rule then


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
You do with marker lights. Then the seeker missile hits on a 2+.

You're mostly right.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nobody has provided a single example of how RESOLVED is any different than FIRING AS

Even if it was different, the Seekers set value would over ride.

well I'm sorry if you want to snap shot a flyer you cannot as there are no rules for it.

You are only allowed to resolve shots as snapfire against them.

I have no idea what you're saying. You can shot at a flier, using snap fire rules, but not fire at a flier using snap fire rules?

 Savageconvoy wrote:
marker light isn't affecting the BS, its using a seeker missile which is a set value of 2+

So then the BS5 is not a set modifier then? In that case there is no conflict. Seeker Missile fired at BS5, Snap Shot (Set modifier) overrides this. Seeker Missile resolved at BS1 against Flyers. Or it is a set modifier at which point a different FAQ comes into play.

40k-noob wrote:
oh by the way, you fire simply by choosing a target and rolling a d6.

You resolve by comparing your BS + D6 roll to the To Hit Chart to determine whether or not you hit your target.

That is the difference between "Firing" and "Resolved"

Then give a quote to show it. Other than making up random rules for GW wording.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Happyjew wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
marker light isn't affecting the BS, its using a seeker missile which is a set value of 2+

So then the BS5 is not a set modifier then? In that case there is no conflict. Seeker Missile fired at BS5, Snap Shot (Set modifier) overrides this. Seeker Missile resolved at BS1 against Flyers. Or it is a set modifier at which point a different FAQ comes into play.

Where do you get this from? The BS5 of the seeker is set in stone, and confirmed by the FAQ. The FAQ states that it overrides the results that would make it fire at BS1

 Savageconvoy wrote:

40k-noob wrote:
oh by the way, you fire simply by choosing a target and rolling a d6.

You resolve by comparing your BS + D6 roll to the To Hit Chart to determine whether or not you hit your target.

That is the difference between "Firing" and "Resolved"

Then give a quote to show it. Other than making up random rules for GW wording.

Show me a rule that allows you to snapshot a flyer, opposed to resolve it as such.

 Savageconvoy wrote:

Happyjew wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
You do with marker lights. Then the seeker missile hits on a 2+.

You're mostly right.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nobody has provided a single example of how RESOLVED is any different than FIRING AS

Even if it was different, the Seekers set value would over ride.

well I'm sorry if you want to snap shot a flyer you cannot as there are no rules for it.

You are only allowed to resolve shots as snapfire against them.

Actually there are rules for trying to fire a Snap shot at a Flyer. You cannot, as then you are choosing to fire a Snap Shot (which is disallowed).

Quote the rule then

He said you could fire snap shots at Flyers. I said you could not:

Q: Can I choose to make a Snap Shot rather than a normal shot?
(p13)
A: No.

You can choose to fire at a Flyer resolving the shot as a snap shot, but you can not fire a snap shot at a flyer (unless you are already required to fire snap shots, i.e. being Stunned).

 Savageconvoy wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Happyjew wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
marker light isn't affecting the BS, its using a seeker missile which is a set value of 2+

So then the BS5 is not a set modifier then? In that case there is no conflict. Seeker Missile fired at BS5, Snap Shot (Set modifier) overrides this. Seeker Missile resolved at BS1 against Flyers. Or it is a set modifier at which point a different FAQ comes into play.

Where do you get this from? The BS5 of the seeker is set in stone, and confirmed by the FAQ. The FAQ states that it overrides the results that would make it fire at BS1

Lol nothing in this game is ever set in stone. Honest how I read the FAQ is: It tells us even though the seeker missile is on the vehicle the vehicle doesn't fire it. Does the Seeker missile have to target the same thing as the Tank/Vice Versa?

... That's it? That's your key argument? This is what you've been arguing the entire time?

The marker light is resolved as a snap shot, the token is used to fire a missile, missile resolved as a Snap shot and as such still hits on a 2+ because the FAQ states how a snap shot affects seeker missiles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

Lol nothing in this game is ever set in stone. Honest how I read the FAQ is: It tells us even though the seeker missile is on the vehicle the vehicle doesn't fire it. Does the Seeker missile have to target the same thing as the Tank/Vice Versa?

The Markerlight rules give it the exception to hit a model that has been marked.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
... That's it? That's your key argument? This is what you've been arguing the entire time?

The marker light is resolved as a snap shot, the token is used to fire a missile, missile resolved as a Snap shot and as such still hits on a 2+ because the FAQ states how a snap shot affects seeker missiles.

No the FAQ covers what happens when the vehicle has its BS reduced to 1. Resolving a Snap Shot does not reduce your BS to 1.

I'm still not seeing any proof for the "resolved" argument.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
... That's it? That's your key argument? This is what you've been arguing the entire time?

The marker light is resolved as a snap shot, the token is used to fire a missile, missile resolved as a Snap shot and as such still hits on a 2+ because the FAQ states how a snap shot affects seeker missiles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

Lol nothing in this game is ever set in stone. Honest how I read the FAQ is: It tells us even though the seeker missile is on the vehicle the vehicle doesn't fire it. Does the Seeker missile have to target the same thing as the Tank/Vice Versa?

The Markerlight rules give it the exception to hit a model that has been marked.

Again the FAQ tells you yada yada fire snapshots

not

Yada yada resolve as snaps.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I'm still not seeing any proof for the "resolved" argument.

The rule under Zooming. How to shoot flyers.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I'm still not seeing any proof for the "resolved" argument.

The BRB is not a dictionary.

If you do not know what is it "Resolve" as a snapshot well then...I can't help you and you probably should not play games that include resolving stuff.

40k-noob wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I'm still not seeing any proof for the "resolved" argument.

The BRB is not a dictionary.

If you do not know what is it "Resolve" as a snapshot well then...I can't help you and you probably should not play games that include resolving stuff.

Ok, ignoring the tone.

Resolved means that you act as if it were. Ok. I'll resolve my seeker missile as if it were a snap shot. BRB says I need a 6, and I will abide by that unless there is a related FAQ. There is. Seeker missiles hit on a 2+ if they are snap fired. So I'm resolving as if the seeker missile where snap firing as required.

 Savageconvoy wrote:

40k-noob wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I'm still not seeing any proof for the "resolved" argument.

The BRB is not a dictionary.

If you do not know what is it "Resolve" as a snapshot well then...I can't help you and you probably should not play games that include resolving stuff.

Ok, ignoring the tone.

Resolved means that you act as if it were. Ok. I'll resolve my seeker missile as if it were a snap shot. BRB says I need a 6, and I will abide by that unless there is a related FAQ. There is. Seeker missiles hit on a 2+ if they are snap fired. So I'm resolving as if the seeker missile where snap firing as required.

Actually if you resolve it they'd need 6's.