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Necrons are the lords of technology, quickly followed by both flavors of Eldar.

IoM are rather far behind

Orks have no real "technology" so to speek, every "machine" they got it actually powered by the unconcious spyker power of the horde, and will cease to function without orks around to make it work.


Tau however, are a tricky race to place on the scale.
While some of their tech seems "modern in real life" on a glance, a quick research of these "modern tech" reveals that they are nothing compared to the Tau versions.

Railguns? sure. we can build them right now! but they are huge machines (battlship cannon scale) that require unrealistic amounts of energy (private nuclear reactor) and don't get much done better then the same-sized cannon. Tau railguns? they tear 40k alloys apart, even thoes of necron origin, with guns small enough to be carried by armored infantry. an IG heavy weapon team should be able to use it given that technology.

If you place IoM "above" tau because they got titans and stuff, remember that at the taros campaign the Tau took out a titan with mere broadsides, and forced others to retreat. size is NOT everything, and Tau energy sources are abnormal.

Travel technology? they are the only "main" race without FTL flight, and even some secondary races got it. but that's in a way related to their inability to connect to the warp, the standard method of FTL travel. so are they really THAT far behind when you think purely on technology?
Anti-grav technology of the Tau seems to be subpar to the Eldar and the Necron, but surely beats the hell out of IoM.

Shielding? the disruption pods are arguably as efficient at the Necron and Eldar shielding methods, although using another route to do so. and they are the only that got stealth field generators fitting for practical use on infantry-being hidden from most detection methods is quite a powerful protection.

AI? this is where Tau show what they really got.
I don't think ANY other race in the galaxy managed to make fully autonomous machines, not even the Necrons who arguably ARE machines, without binding souls in some method or another.

So they are actually on the tails of the Eldar, just following different routes. I would give it about 100 years in-universe until they will be unquestionably number 2, and not much longer until they are unquestionably number 1.

 Bloody Adair wrote:
The main reason for that phobia would have to do with the Men of Iron, you know? Nothing quiet like your servants and the backbone of the Old Empire rising up and selling you out Skynet style.

The Eldar pre fall also used robotic constructs to do most of their fighting. They were just advanced enough that they didnt turn on their creators. No instead the eldar had reached such a level of technologoical perfection that they didnt need to do anything but endulge in pleasure.

 BoomWolf wrote:

IoM are rather far behind

'cept when the Adeptus Mechanicus decides that it is time to pull out some Dark Age of Technology tech from the shed .

 BoomWolf wrote:
Orks have no real "technology" so to speek, every "machine" they got it actually powered by the unconcious spyker power of the horde, and will cease to function without orks around to make it work.

So computers are not technology, because they are powered by electricity, and they don't work without the arcance device what is called 'Connector'....

 BoomWolf wrote:
Railguns? sure. we can build them right now! but they are huge machines (battlship cannon scale) that require unrealistic amounts of energy (private nuclear reactor) and don't get much done better then the same-sized cannon.

We could easily build 90% of the Taus stuff with modern day tech. We would need only one thing: room temprature super conductors. With those stuff, we could build rifle-sized railguns, "skimmers", alll sorts of funny energy weapons, etc.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Tau railguns? they tear 40k alloys apart, even thoes of necron origin, with guns small enough to be carried by armored infantry. an IG heavy weapon team should be able to use it given that technology.

So? There is a tank mounted weapon in the IG, the Bastion-Breacher Shell. It can tear apart stuff even better than the Railgun, without the power need.

 BoomWolf wrote:
If you place IoM "above" tau because they got titans and stuff, remember that at the taros campaign the Tau took out a titan with mere broadsides, and forced others to retreat. size is NOT everything, and Tau energy sources are abnormal.

They took out a Titan with the A-X-1 Tigershark, an aircraft specifically designed to take out titans... Boooh...

 BoomWolf wrote:
Shielding? the disruption pods are arguably as efficient at the Necron and Eldar shielding methods, although using another route to do so. and they are the only that got stealth field generators fitting for practical use on infantry-being hidden from most detection methods is quite a powerful protection.

The Camo Netting of the Imperial Guard is nearly as effective as the Disruption Pod. And it is just a big sheet with paint and some local fauna on it...

 BoomWolf wrote:

AI? this is where Tau show what they really got.
I don't think ANY other race in the galaxy managed to make fully autonomous machines, not even the Necrons who arguably ARE machines, without binding souls in some method or another.

Servo Skulls, Wraith Constructs, Canoptek Constructs... Just to name them.

 BoomWolf wrote:

So they are actually on the tails of the Eldar, just following different routes. I would give it about 100 years in-universe until they will be unquestionably number 2, and not much longer until they are unquestionably number 1.

Since they needed 6000 years to go from cavemen to tech savvy aliens, but they actualy spent, like 4000 years fighting each other unit they got their Plot Device, and they are pretty stagnant (relatively to their past progress) for almost 100-200 years (their latest tech is still the Hazard...). I would increase that '100 years' (Shadowsun is around since 100 years... and her batlesuit is still just an experimental prototype...) to 3-4000 years at best.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Necrons are the lords of technology, quickly followed by both flavors of Eldar.

IoM are rather far behind

Orks have no real "technology" so to speek, every "machine" they got it actually powered by the unconcious spyker power of the horde, and will cease to function without orks around to make it work.


Tau however, are a tricky race to place on the scale.
While some of their tech seems "modern in real life" on a glance, a quick research of these "modern tech" reveals that they are nothing compared to the Tau versions.

Railguns? sure. we can build them right now! but they are huge machines (battlship cannon scale) that require unrealistic amounts of energy (private nuclear reactor) and don't get much done better then the same-sized cannon. Tau railguns? they tear 40k alloys apart, even thoes of necron origin, with guns small enough to be carried by armored infantry. an IG heavy weapon team should be able to use it given that technology.

If you place IoM "above" tau because they got titans and stuff, remember that at the taros campaign the Tau took out a titan with mere broadsides, and forced others to retreat. size is NOT everything, and Tau energy sources are abnormal.

Travel technology? they are the only "main" race without FTL flight, and even some secondary races got it. but that's in a way related to their inability to connect to the warp, the standard method of FTL travel. so are they really THAT far behind when you think purely on technology?
Anti-grav technology of the Tau seems to be subpar to the Eldar and the Necron, but surely beats the hell out of IoM.

Shielding? the disruption pods are arguably as efficient at the Necron and Eldar shielding methods, although using another route to do so. and they are the only that got stealth field generators fitting for practical use on infantry-being hidden from most detection methods is quite a powerful protection.

AI? this is where Tau show what they really got.
I don't think ANY other race in the galaxy managed to make fully autonomous machines, not even the Necrons who arguably ARE machines, without binding souls in some method or another.

So they are actually on the tails of the Eldar, just following different routes. I would give it about 100 years in-universe until they will be unquestionably number 2, and not much longer until they are unquestionably number 1.

the tau are more advanced then the IoM but they are not anywhere near the levels of Eldar(both) or necrons. What they do do is invest a lot persoldier. All their armor, tanks, suits and tanks are not particularly advanced but are rather what you might call expensive. A Cadilac is not noticably more advanced than a Chevy but the cadilac has more functions, is faster, and is less likely to break. The difference is cost.

The Tau are not in a possition of having to put forth a lot of warriors, they are mostly a peaceful race and see a small elite expensive army as more preferable than an large common cheap army. It is for the greater good.

I wonder if you would be able to consider Tyranids as a technologically advanced race? their troops and their weapons are essentially constructs, and they can be adapted depending on what opponents they face. I guess it all depends on whether you think tyranids evolved into the form they currently have, or whether they were somehow created. if they were created it would seem t indicate a significantly more advanced understanding of at least some aspects of technology, as compared to say the IoM or Tau.

Traditional technology wise, i would say the eldar are significantly more advanced than the IoM, orks or Tau, and on a Par with Necrons. Naturally they have vastly different types of technology, but i doubt a race could fight the necrons to a standstill without at least a rough technological parity/ There are differences of course, the eldar have access to the warp, and the webway, and psychic plastics, while the necrons have living metal, and 'proper' FTL capability, particle weapons and so forth.

I laugh at all the people saying Orks, but once you think about it it's almost kinda true.

It's said there shootas have absolutely nothing that should work (theres no trigger, springs, anything. It's just a magazine and a barrel inside some scrap) but they just...do....

That, and there are Ork clans that love technology. They just aren't 100% sure how it works hahaha

Orks are a curious case, like Nids, they get better the more they fight. The larger the fight, the better their weapons and technology get

I think that Eldar technology has a very different basis from other forms of technology. One thing to remember is the form of technology the Eldar use is just as valid as other forms of technology. So deciding if they are or are not high-tech depends on your point of view, human or alien.

Is there much overlap between craftworld tech and dark eldar tech?

The Tau have the ability to be the most advanced. the problem with the arguments is that they are coming from two completely different angles. The people saying the tau are close, i amongst them, are showing that they have essentially the same only in a more physically based system. (with the exception of the necrons ability to remake time and space). as for what i see from the other side is that they are seeing things as linear. that this is just a stage, not another means to an end.

and to the tyranids yes they are tech, just biological tech.

The Men of Iron debacle is a shoddy excuse for the Imperium's paranoia regarding A.I. The revolt happened during the Dark Age of Technology, for one, meaning that it was such an astronomically long time ago it's barely worth remembering. And for another, sine when do you go cold-turkey on something because you had a bad experience? The Horus Heresy was about a Space Marine army rising up against the Imperium and nearly destroying it. The Imperium hasn't ruled "we wil never make space marines again", though. Instead, they just provided harsher regulation (codex astartes), that prevented the Marines from becoming strong enough to commit another Heresy. They could have done the same thing with A.I.

The most truthful reason I can think of for why the Imperium hates AI is the reason why they hate most things; because collectively, the Imperium is stupid as hell.

The only reason for the Iron Men and the abrupt abandonment of AI technology by humans is because the Imperium is hugely based on the DUNE universe, which went through the exact same upheaval against thinking machines 10,000 years before the book "Dune".

As for Eldar technology being "magic", I put forth the famous quote, "Any technology, suitably advanced, is indistinguishable from magic."

 AegisGrimm wrote:

The only reason for the Iron Men and the abrupt abandonment of AI technology by humans is because the Imperium is hugely based on the DUNE universe, which went through the exact same upheaval against thinking machines 10,000 years before the book "Dune".

As for Eldar technology being "magic", I put forth the famous quote, "Any technology, suitably advanced, is indistinguishable from magic."

Brilliant! I was trying to figure out why computers were completely missing from 40k, and this explanation is the best I've seen. I know that 40k's Butlerian Jihad is probably too far back to be of interest to most, but I would certainly enjoy seeing it fleshed out.

Where is that quote from, btw?

I think its Arthur C. Clarke. maybe wrong though.

One of my thought is that Eldar might be cooler if they where a low tech race with a lot of magic. It helps carve out a new roll after the tau took a lot of their old one.

The way I see it is the tech kings, hands down are Necrons. The Eldar are close behind, except they had someone boost them up to start with and then went a diffident route then the necron. It is still leaps and bounds above the IoM.

The Tau honestly are roughly on par with the IoM. However the chief diffidence is tau know what they hell they are doing and are not held back by a hooky religion. They will surpass the Iom and in many eras have, in other era's mot so much.


On the "Any technology, suitably advanced, is indistinguishable from magic." quote it was indeed Arthur C. Clarke.

And that is what ya get with the Eldar and the Necrons, it is pure magic as you are incapable of understanding it. The Eldar seems more magic just because of the trappings they have added that please them.

 BoomWolf wrote:
I don't think ANY other race in the galaxy managed to make fully autonomous machines, not even the Necrons who arguably ARE machines, without binding souls in some method or another.

Scarabs, Wraiths, Tomb Spyders, Tomb Stalkers, etc.

The Tau's weakness in space is of some consideration when ranking them.

At the end of the day, orbital advancement is the key mark of power in 40k; ground battles are to seize objectives, but the option always exists to simply glass it from orbit, for most races anyways. Not preferable, but available.

The Tau in space have little real capacity to stand toe to toe with any of the big naval powers in 40k; they have nothing of comparable size and power to ships of the lines used by the Imperium, to say nothing of Eldar or Necron vessels. Their escorts and various frigates/cruisers are effective combatants, but lack of FTL and sophisticated, apocalyptic scale weapons employed by other powers means they're limited in what they can do.

The Eldar and the Necrons, well, for the Eldar, their imagination and manpower are the chief limitations. Otherwise, blow up a star, change the course of time, obliterate a whole star system without anyone so much as noticing, sure, no problem. The Necrons, well, they can shut down the entire galaxy by turning off some switches.

The Tau? Pulse rifles are pretty cool, I'm sure they'll fair well against races which can manipulate the fabric of reality, or reduce all biological matter on a planet into foetid, decayed mush in moments, and then incinerated from orbit. In terms of the true effectiveness of their military power, the Tau don't really have any do-or-die campaign experience, no great test of their best versus another race's best.

In terms of potential, they've got more than almost everyone else in terms of tech, but little in expansion. Lack of FTL means, logistically, even if the Imperium collapsed tomorrow, and every man, woman and child died instantly, the Tau have a strict upper limit in expansion and power, otherwise their empire would become as unwieldy as the Imperium while holding a fraction of the power and territory. They'd stagnate and collapse, more likely than not, just like the Imperium, or at least fragment politically.

Logistics make an army, a country, and an Empire. The Tau, compared to everyone else, have piss poor potential to establish logistic chains, or defend them. Their tech has not advanced sufficiently in scale or range to make them a real contender. They'll kick ass in a firefight or a skirmish, even in some large battles on the ground, but in a campaign of galactic domination, they have no technological capacity to compete.

I'd just like to point out that tau are mentioned no where in the topic of this thread. Just want to point that out.

nomotog wrote:
I'd just like to point out that tau are mentioned no where in the topic of this thread. Just want to point that out.

You can't really discuss the relative level of tech of one race without discussing others. Just want to point that out

The Adeptus Mechanicus has stuff that simply blows Tau technology out of the water. The reason the Imperial Guard is running around with lasguns and flak armour is that it's easy to manufacture and maintain. The Imperium operates on a scale the Tau can't possibly hope to match.

IMHO, Imperial technology is effectively on-par with most Eldar technology, though less efficient. In anti-gravity and psychic technology, the Eldar are peerless, though the Tau's own anti-gravity technology would probably give the Eldar a run for their money. The Tau are also on par with the Eldar regarding plasma technology. Apart from plasma, railgun, and anti-gravity technology, the Tau are generally on-par with the Imperium, though they're outclassed in psychic technology, and overall military and large-scale/interstellar capability. However, no species comes close to rivaling the Necrons, except in psychic engineering, which they completely lack.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
The Adeptus Mechanicus has stuff that simply blows Tau technology out of the water.

To be totally fair, the Tau if given or found the same tech would at lest learn to build it. The Admech has done more the hurt technological innovation within the IoM then anything.

 Hunterindarkness wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
The Adeptus Mechanicus has stuff that simply blows Tau technology out of the water.

To be totally fair, the Tau if given or found the same tech would at lest learn to build it. The Admech has done more the hurt technological innovation within the IoM then anything.

Not necessarily true, as during the Great Crusade and up to the end of the Horus Heresy under the Emperor and the Imperial Truth the Adeptus Mechanicus was actually re-discovering and developing new technologies at a rate unseen since the Golden Age of Technology ended. It can be said that the achievements (both technological and otherwise) made during the two centuries of the Great Crusade are among the few things keeping the Imperium together - I dare say the post-Heresy Imperium has not surpassed the achievements of the Great Crusade, it has only built on them.

nomotog wrote:
One of my thought is that Eldar might be cooler if they where a low tech race with a lot of magic. It helps carve out a new roll after the tau took a lot of their old one.

I really like the OP and I am sorry that almost none of the replies seem to have paid attention to it. I also appreciate brevity, please become the only poster on the internet.

nomotog wrote:
Is there much overlap between craftworld tech and dark eldar tech?

the DE manufacture things, as they have the manpower(clones and slaves)
the CWE grow things, which takes longer but less manpower

some of their tech is similar in function (dark lance and bright lance) but the means of creation is completely different.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

@ AtoMaki: Sunkiller machine?

Another Ward contribution, the Celestial Orrery is basically the technology equivalent of Kaldor Draigo, a device capable of causing any star anywhere to go supernova with the press of a button. Yes, it's that stupid.

Necrons are the most technological race.

nomotog wrote:
Items like soul stones or wrathbone feel more like magic then actual tech. The line I draw is that tech items can be made and used by a race that lacks pykers.

By that standard, the craftworld Eldar are effectively medieval. Every advanced technology they have is dependent on psionics to some extent.

The problem with talking about 40k technology without 'magic' is that magic is so well integrated into many races technology you can barely distiguish where one ends and the other begins. Only the Tau and the Necrons don't mix magic with technology. The Imperium at least has a tech-base which doesn't seem to require any magic, which I'd say is better than the Tau's (but not so widely available to most). Ork technology without magic would probably mostly work, but be horribly unreliable. I guess they can be called high-tech in some ways (only a little behind the imperium) but with terrible quality control they compensate for with psionics.

 Omegus wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:

@ AtoMaki: Sunkiller machine?

Another Ward contribution, the Celestial Orrery is basically the technology equivalent of Kaldor Draigo, a device capable of causing any star anywhere to go supernova with the press of a button. Yes, it's that stupid.

I was aware of the Celestial Orrery, I just didn't make that connection when I read "Sunkiller machine."

Yeah, I do ever so like that the Necrons, along with becoming emocrons, now have the capacity to destroy Terra with the press of a button.

This is good fluff. Yes. No doubt.

I'm being sarcastic.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Hunterindarkness wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
The Adeptus Mechanicus has stuff that simply blows Tau technology out of the water.

To be totally fair, the Tau if given or found the same tech would at lest learn to build it. The Admech has done more the hurt technological innovation within the IoM then anything.

Not necessarily true, as during the Great Crusade and up to the end of the Horus Heresy under the Emperor and the Imperial Truth the Adeptus Mechanicus was actually re-discovering and developing new technologies at a rate unseen since the Golden Age of Technology ended. It can be said that the achievements (both technological and otherwise) made during the two centuries of the Great Crusade are among the few things keeping the Imperium together - I dare say the post-Heresy Imperium has not surpassed the achievements of the Great Crusade, it has only built on them.

That is not the same empire. They were advancing or at lest gaining ground, making new things, improving things. However without someone to strong arm the admech the "faith" has taken over, Rarely do they innovate and often they really have no clue what they are doing. After the HH the admech have stalled and curtailed tech advancement to the point of not even understanding some of the most used tech. They can not make some of the stuff they used in the crusade much less the "holy" dark age tech. I say you are dead wrong the post Heresy Imperium has not built upon anything, its slowly allowed it to die.