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Because Necrons at the time were based off two very popular movie lines (Terminator and Stargate), while Sisters were based off John Blanche's artwork and some poorly understood fetishes.

THAT is why Necrons sold prior to 2002 while Sisters did not.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
You're dismissing it because you can't refute it.

It's already been refuted.

I never denied that Sisters didn't sell as well as they should have, I have no clue where you got that impression from. No, I stated that GW basically did everything wrong to market Sisters. You haven't been able to refute any of that-- instead trying to drag the discussion off on tangents. But no matter how much you try to do so, GW made a huge amount of mistakes, they fethed up a lot, which resulted in the codex (and associated miniatures) not ever getting up to its potential in sales.

Want a comparison? Think of Dark Eldar. They had the same treatment, arguably even worse, really, and as a result, they didn't sell well... at all. They weren't popular and really only die-hard fans actually bothered to play the army and collect the models, some people didn't even know they existed-- much like Sisters. But once they got a brand new codex, with a lot of well crafted miniatures, and some press in White Dwarf to celebrate and advertise those brand new, high-quality miniatures? They started selling a lot more than they previously had, and have risen to become arguably more popular than the craftworld Eldar codex. Quite a turn-around considering that people had been wondering if Dark Eldar was going to be squatted-- just Sisters, in this thread.

Done properly, Sisters could be the next success story in the same vein as Dark Eldar.

Answer the question:

Prior to 2002, why did the Necrons succeed and the Sisters fail?

Because one of the current editors on staff actively enjoyed the army style, and was later promoted to a position where he could influence the next codex to be produced.

Might be a bit random, but...

If a freaking 1000 strong (1200-1500 with support) Space Marines Chapter can have fething warships, tanks, various fighters, gunships, bombers, artillery, APCs, etc organic to their fething organization than the significantly larger Adepta Sororitas should have that as well. At the absolute minimum each Orders Militant is several times the size of Codex Chapter.

Also veteran, I'm sorry if I sounded hostile in my previous posts in this thread. But as you can likely tell, I am very firm in my beliefs on this topic-- even still, I don't want to antagonize you, we just happen to disagree, and it's not like it's the first time eh?

Veteran Sergeant is making an argument based on sales, but he has zero sales figures. In interviews over the years developers have stated that the main reason that the squats were dropped was because no one at the studio really could come up with a good way to go forward with them. Sales of models really has never been given as the main reason the army was dropped.

The chaos dwarfs were dropped but they have a pretty large following even after all these years. They never even had a proper army book. Their only army book was a compilation of articles from the white dwarf.

No one except management at GW really knows what the sales figures for various armies is but there is plenty of circumstantial evidence that they do not base their decision on whether or not to drop an army solely on existing sales.

At least one way to think of it is that the less Sisters of Battle players there are, it makes people like me more unique. I bought into Sisters when they first came out- Necrons, too for that matter.

I'm even thinking of stripping my army and repainting them (as I have improved in 115 years, lol) instead of buying anything new.

I agree, though, that GW has pretty much cocked-up in every way throughout the years concerning SoB.

I would bet if Sisters were released in plastic w/ a new Codex they would really sell in todays market. I know 3 or 4 people who would start a sister army and 1 who has everything sisters and is just waiting for a new codex.

 Amaya wrote:
Might be a bit random, but...

If a freaking 1000 strong (1200-1500 with support) Space Marines Chapter can have fething warships, tanks, various fighters, gunships, bombers, artillery, APCs, etc organic to their fething organization than the significantly larger Adepta Sororitas should have that as well. At the absolute minimum each Orders Militant is several times the size of Codex Chapter.

The Adepta Sororitas are banned from holding fleet assets by the Decree Passive. That's the only reason they don't have warships, fighters, gunships or bombers 'organic' to their organisation. They do, however, have an arrangement with the Imperial Navy to borrow ships and air support where necessary. They favour the Avenger Strike Fighter in particular.

Besides, there are thousands of Orders Militant Minoris, many of which are in fact smaller than a Space Marine chapter. As for tanks and APCs, they do have two APCs, an IFV and a tank. They don't have artillery, true - artillery doesn't fit into their battle doctrine and is the Guard's job. Since where there are Sororitas, there are usually also Guard, they don't really need it.

They need more vehicles in general, however. Saying "but you can just ally with the guard" is lazy, given that by the same logic, Space Marines shouldn't have certain units as well, like their own artillery.

Each codex is an army to itself. Even Imperial Guard has durable assault units.

They need a tank that has this on its roof:

It needs ot be two-headed. The gryphon I mean.

Someone should totally do a conversion where they put everything on that war-wagon from the base of the windows and up on the roof a Rhino, lol.

It would look goofy as all hell, but ironically would look like an actual GW product.

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:
I sincerly hope they don't phase them out. They are such a huge part of Warhammer 40k. I mean, for Emperors sake, the Ordo Hereticus is a HUGE part of the Imperium and the Sisters of Battle is the militant arm of that organization. If GW started to phase them out, they would be ignoring something that is very important IMO.

Grey Knights are the militant arm of the Ordo Malleus, so why can't Sisters of Battle get a Codex too?

I would like to see them get a new Codex and new models and do not consider them to part of Warhammer 40k in the past tense.

GW often forgets about significant parts of the lore, lets acknowledge the lack of attention given to the Imperial Navy during this flyer fad

They will release plastic's, and maybe a new codex. If they still don't sell, GW will pull the plug.

But I beleive the reason they don't sell, is a combination of old/bad rules, and old/bad/Expensive models.

No one want's to pay a premium, for a bad army.

Has anyone consider the option that they may get rolled into another codex?

They tried that with third edition. It didn't work, and they moved away from that in fifth edition, which is about the only good thing to come out of fifth edition for Sisters, aside from some lore bits.

 Crimson wrote:
If there were plastic Sisters of Battle, I'd buy an army in a heartbeat. It is not even about the price of the metal models. I love to convert, but with metal it is just such a pain.

Pretty much this. I was about to pull the trigger on about 900 points worth of SoB to use as allies, but even at 30% off it was a bit expensive and I decided the spend that amount on marines, orks, chaos marines and a bit of IG instead. I like a lot of the SoB models, but the price makes it hard to justify getting them. And indeed metal is a bit tricky to work with, I don't even have the tools to deal with metal casting seams and such as this time. My 5 Sternguard, 12 Vostroyans, 10 ratlings and 3 marine scouts thus won't be seeing paint any time soon most likely.

I know as much as I would like to see GW release new models (or ones that are affordable), for the time being I'm seriously eyeing the SOB army that's languishing in my buddy's upstairs storage room.

Melissia wrote:They need more vehicles in general, however. Saying "but you can just ally with the guard" is lazy, given that by the same logic, Space Marines shouldn't have certain units as well, like their own artillery.

Each codex is an army to itself. Even Imperial Guard has durable assault units.

True, I'm not denying that. We not only need more vehicles, we deserve them. All I'm saying is that you don't have to turn us into Space Marines to get there.

Crimson wrote:They need a tank that has this on its roof:

[image snipped]

Yes. But in addition to being two-headed, it needs to be able to swing that hammer for great cleansing.

PresidentOfAsia wrote:

GW often forgets about significant parts of the lore, lets acknowledge the lack of attention given to the Imperial Navy during this flyer fad

At least Forge World are giving the Navy their due. All the FW fliers, the Valkyrie and the Vendetta are only technically on 'temporary loan' to whichever army is fielding them at the time.

AegisGrimm wrote:I know as much as I would like to see GW release new models (or ones that are affordable), for the time being I'm seriously eyeing the SOB army that's languishing in my buddy's upstairs storage room.

As them to lend it to you. Seriously. You'll never go back.

AegisGrimm wrote:I know as much as I would like to see GW release new models (or ones that are affordable), for the time being I'm seriously eyeing the SOB army that's languishing in my buddy's upstairs storage room.

As them to lend it to you. Seriously. You'll never go back.

I'm not gonna lie, but this is pretty much why I have a playable army. My brother bought a whole Sisters army off someone while he was away at uni, then agreed to lend it to me to supplement my two-squads-and-a-canoness of the time. ^^;

If the Dreamforge Black Widows are a success, that might change things. If Mantic or AoW come up with a plastic kit for warrior nuns, that might change things. It seems like GW really only notices where the market is when someone else taps it first.

Well, that's how EA and Blizzard are like, same with Microsoft.

Those companies are well-liked paragons of corporate efficiency, yes? It's a good thing GW is learning from them...

Honestly, I'm scared of what modern GW might do with the SoBs if they made a new codex. FFG's supplement has a lot of neat background, and a new codex would flush it all away. Prepare to be blown away by the Ecclesiarchy's new, entirely benevolent dogma! Thrill to the exploits of Canoness Therese, who single-handedly converted an entire tomb world to the light of the Emperor! Change your underwear as you, er drool over the magnificence of Living Saint Celestine, who destroyed an Avatar, a Swarmlord, an Astartes chapter, and three whole Dwarf holds with her tears of pure devotion! (Sorry, Karak Kadrin. It was a good run.)

I can only imagine what their rules will look after the addition of SoB Cherubim, Malachim and Righteous Gentile squads, their Instrumentaliy Faithfist walker and their flyers, the FaithCovenant Fighter and the ZealTract Bomber...

I know I have a flair for the dramatic at times, but that's a bit hysterical there.

 Melissia wrote:
I know I have a flair for the dramatic at times, but that's a bit hysterical there.

I was aiming for funny.

Honestly, I just think it would be bland, (less ambiguously) heroic and slightly higher-powered than the previous codex.

The models, however would be stunning. And for $35 each, they'd better be.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

Honestly, I'm scared of what modern GW might do with the SoBs if they made a new codex. FFG's supplement has a lot of neat background, and a new codex would flush it all away. Prepare to be blown away by the Ecclesiarchy's new, entirely benevolent dogma! Thrill to the exploits of Canoness Therese, who single-handedly converted an entire tomb world to the light of the Emperor! Change your underwear as you, er drool over the magnificence of Living Saint Celestine, who destroyed an Avatar, a Swarmlord, an Astartes chapter, and three whole Dwarf holds with her tears of pure devotion! (Sorry, Karak Kadrin. It was a good run.)

Don't FFG's Sisters have actual, honest to God-Emperor, magic? I think GWs Sisters fluff has been much more tolerable. Yes, even if we count ending up as armour paint.

I could be wrong with this (and I'm fairly sure I am), but someone once told me that GW sponsored tournaments forbid SoB male players from participating due to the fact that they are a dude? Again, this could just be that person pulling my leg but on the one in a million chance that he was being truthful...

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
[...]
-Few years ago one GW men who works in high staff said that GW will never again squat an army. So SoB are save when it comes to that ( ask Lynata for details ).

-GW decided to update EVERY codex to 6'th edition, so we should see SoB 6'th edition FULL codex next year or the year after that. Now entire Sister army is in metal when everybody is being made in plastic or finecast. You can bet when SoB get updated with plastic models that many will start to collect them.
[...]

Ok, now I'm worried.
In my small 30 years of lifespan, I've quickly learned that people feels the need to reassure that something won't happen only when there is actually a pretty good chance that it may happen in the first place.

I sure hope that it won't happens though.

My guess is that, from their previous experience, they may see the SoB as a risky product and wait until they are more financially stable before retrying to make a proper codex and miniatures line. What worries me the most is that with their current business model, they may never get stable enough for such a risky ordeal. Don't forget that most people tend to never see their own errors or rationalize/justify them when someone point it to you.