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 Alfndrate wrote:

 WhiteRoo wrote:
I really like the new rulebook. I can't wait to bring my Warlord to the field!


Then let's write some criticism about the 2nd rulebook.
(I only speed-read the basic rules)

-I have no idea how big a 4' x 4' table is. It's a cultural thing. Can you add it in centimeters also?

Much like you not knowing how large a 4ft by 4ft table is, I have no idea how many centimeters that is, so I used google . 4ft is 121.95 centimeters. Or 1m 22cm

That's only a guess, but maybe the problem comes from the « ' » identification of feet? Maybe « 4 feet by 4 feet » would be clearer than « 4'x4' »?

There is that possibility as well, if that was the case, my bad D:

 WhiteRoo wrote:

-I have no idea how big a 4' x 4' table is. It's a cultural thing. Can you add it in centimeters also?

Metric is weird, we really only use it for the bases because they are industry standard.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

-"Rushed" is mentioned in the Terms part, but "Rush" isn't, just way later. It's weird although I can see why.

Changing the term listing to 'Rush/Rushed' to just make things alittle clearer

 WhiteRoo wrote:

-Garrison: Going in and out from a garrison is unclear. Sound's like going in a garrison ends the models turn who goes in while leaving the garrison doesn't. Going in occurs at the end of the movement phase, but what about units that can switch their movement/attack phases or can interrupt their movement phases with their attacks, or have a heroic/tactical action? A model like this can pop out, do it's thing then go back in?

Its an optional thing, you're welcome to pop back and forth.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

-the term "Causing Fearsome" sound's weird to me. Also "Immune to Fear" and "Immune to Fearsome" both appears.

'Causing Fearsome' is just odd grammar, not much we can do about it to keep things simple.
I cannot locate 'Immune to Fear', where is this term?

-It is not explained when exactly a model is "obscured"?

 WhiteRoo wrote:

-Deviation: The text about the deviation on page 27 does not say what do you have to target and it's generally unclear.

You have to target whatever you are targeting.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

-Crossbow: It's not clear if the free counterattack is part of the Heavy Bolt ability or not. I think it's not, but I'm actually not sure.

Heavy Bolt - This weapon deals +1 DE on a Critical Hit; and may be used as a Free Activation to make the Counterfire Charge Reaction.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

-Horns: If this isn't changed, Horn effects stack with other horn effects, but not with the same horn effect. Although my English skills might be wrong here.

Working as intended, you can't get a +Infinity by buying an infinite amount of the same horn.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

-The Siege weapon section sometimes list a base in inches other times in centimeters.

We used the millimeter base size for the standard bases that Brushfire uses, some things are intended for basing on bases we do not normally use (Rectangles).

 WhiteRoo wrote:

-The wall and the tower might have an expected height given. Also how wide is a castle gate?

Wall Height doesn't really matter for Brushfire. A Castle Gate is 2"x6"

 WhiteRoo wrote:

Vandalands:

-Valkyr MK.I and Valkyr Mk.II has too similar names. Can you guys give some nickname to at least one of them, like "Valkyr Mk.2 - Hellfire" so we can call it Hellfire Valkyr? (okay that's lame but maybe something german will do it)
-Also, the Mk.II has no pilot?

What Alf said. The Mk.IIs are prototypes, their pilots cannot allow any part of the technology to get into enemy hands.. including the knowledge of the pilots.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

Hamster Berserkers - Northern Berserker - If the Squad kills at least one enemy unit then the squad may attack again, right? It can be argued that only Hamster berserkers that are scored a kill whitin the Hamster Berserker squad may attack a second time(so one extra attack per kill).

What Alf said.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

That's all for now

Keep it up

 Cyporiean wrote:

 WhiteRoo wrote:

-I have no idea how big a 4' x 4' table is. It's a cultural thing. Can you add it in centimeters also?

Metric is weird, we really only use it for the bases because they are industry standard.

I can say the same about Imperial.

 Tonio wrote:

I can say the same about Imperial.

Hey, you want to sell that thing to Europe or not? I bet you can't sell it on the moon.

Just joking. but seriously. The reader shouldn't use google alongside the rulebook. At least print a metric/centimeter ruler in somewhere.

We'll get something in there for you metrics folks, but just remember 30CM is about 1FT/12"

 WhiteRoo wrote:
Hey, you want to sell that thing to Europe or not? I bet you can't sell it on the moon.

Just joking. but seriously. The reader shouldn't use google alongside the rulebook. At least print a metric/centimeter ruler in somewhere.

While I totally get metric is the standard thing everywhere else, for some reason Imperial is the standard in wargames with the exception of naval games.

Do your tape measures/rulers not have imperial measurements on them?

 Cyporiean wrote:
We'll get something in there for you metrics folks, but just remember 30CM is about 1FT/12"

A simple 1" = 2.5cm somewhere at the start of the book should be enough. That's what most game book have has a mention, normally.

 Tonio wrote:

 Cyporiean wrote:
We'll get something in there for you metrics folks, but just remember 30CM is about 1FT/12"

A simple 1" = 2.5cm somewhere at the start of the book should be enough. That's what most game book have has a mention, normally.

That is the plan.

I'll see about getting another build of the PDF out late tonight.

Actually I went to the local hope depot store and they didn't had a single tape with inches. The game store has some on triple price.

Anyway, I think the height of the walls, gates and towers should be mentionned, so it can be clear that how much they are blocking line of sight.

On the size of the gate I think about the size of the opening part of the gate, so when it's broken down how wide of a hole will it become, or the whole piece is gets removed?

"Immune to Fear" can be found at page 21, 50, 57, 118 twice, and 222.

What I want to say about the imperial/metric thing is that the book doesn't seems to stick with either. It uses what it's covinient. In the way you guys can't tell wich one is the 50mm base if it's not written on it, I can't tell if a table is 4' x 4' or not.

 WhiteRoo wrote:
Actually I went to the local hope depot store and they didn't had a single tape with inches. The game store has some on triple price.

Anyway, I think the height of the walls, gates and towers should be mentionned, so it can be clear that how much they are blocking line of sight.

On the size of the gate I think about the size of the opening part of the gate, so when it's broken down how wide of a hole will it become, or the whole piece is gets removed?

"Immune to Fear" can be found at page 21, 50, 57, 118 twice, and 222.

What I want to say about the imperial/metric thing is that the book doesn't seems to stick with either. It uses what it's covinient. In the way you guys can't tell wich one is the 50mm base if it's not written on it, I can't tell if a table is 4' x 4' or not.

Actually I can tell bases just by looking at them. We list base size because bases are sold like that. We could easily say, "small base, medium base, and large base." and you'd have to go with the ones we provide with the models. By saying it's a 30mm base, you can go into any game store (anywhere in the world), and request a 30mm base, and they'll point you in the right direction. It's just how odd the game industry is.

I just couldn't tell you conversion rates between feet and centimeters lol

Height of a wall/tower/anything has no bearing on LOS. You could play an army of tokens against a proper modeled army and not have any issues with LOS since LOS is determined by measuring through the horizontal. Brushfire uses simple abstract LOS, rather then any form of True LOS.

The Gate opening is abstract, like doors on buildings, its just assumed a model can move through it.

And the horns. Two different horns stack, -at least if I'm understanding "stacking" correctly- but two of the same doesn't.

Is the "one horn and one banner per type on an army" rule got removed?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm getting pretty good with this imperial stuff since I play this game, but it's not about me you see. The 12 inches is one foot thing is pretty unorthodox here(why 12? srsly).

Any Heroes or Exemplars may carry accessories, and some Troops will list them as part of their Standard or Upgrade Equipment. Each model may only carry one accessory from each category.

Accessories are horns, banners, and items. So a hero could carry 1 of each, and an exemplar could carry 1 of each, and a second exemplar could carry 1 of each...

 WhiteRoo wrote:
And the horns. Two different horns stack, -at least if I'm understanding "stacking" correctly- but two of the same doesn't.

Yes.

Your Warlord uses Bugle of the Hunter’s Quarry to give out +2 RS, on your next activation Arctos uses Horn of the Shattered Claymore for +2 MS, then on your next activation your Valkyr have +2 MS and +2 RS.

But you would not be able to use Bugle of the Hunter's Quarry twice in an activation to get +4 RS, you'd only get +2 RS.

 WhiteRoo wrote:
Is the "one horn and one banner per type on an army" rule got removed?

Yes, there is no limit to the number of them in your army.. but a Model can only hold one of each type of accessory.

 Alfndrate wrote:

 WhiteRoo wrote:
I have no idea how big a 4' x 4' table is. It's a cultural thing. Can you add it in centimeters also?

Much like you not knowing how large a 4ft by 4ft table is, I have no idea how many centimeters that is, so I used google . 4ft is 121.95 centimeters. Or 1m 22cm

I think the only reason we learn both in Britain is so we can translate for you Americans. Hurry up and fall into line with the clearly superior system!
A foot is approximately 30cm. 30cm/12inch rulers are really common here, if 30cm rulers are as common in metric Europe then you'll find that's the best way to gauge 12inches from memory.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Had a quick look through and i'm very impressed. I think the Exemplars are solidly balanced but possibly still breakable. I'm looking forward to delving into the PDF a bit deeper and I have a few questions already. The layout has been improved noticeably too, you've done particularly well with the limited space issue. I think I'm going to have a bash at making broken lists and then see what everyone thinks about them. It won't be easy though, everything seems more consistent already after a quick glance.

Good job so far guys. Applause all round.

More things I noticed:

Pg 170 - Sohei Toad - Unit type is listed as Sohei Toad
Pg 64 – Shrew Carbineer – All stat #s missing
Pg 91 – Kernish Terrier – Unit type listed as Horde Infantry (1st Ed. nomenclature?)
Pg 230 – Loxadon – Base size is listed as 40mm. If this is correct the artwork definitely adds a few tons


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In the Units section pricing goes Food/Lumber/Gold, but in the Seige Weapons Section the cost order is Gold, Lumber. The symbols are clear, but when I was building a force I started copying numbers down in the order they appeared and didn't catch my mistake until after I had built an illegal force.
Would it make sense to make the cost order consistent throughout?

Trebuchet:
In the description of the trebuchet, a misterious X variable is mentionned which can be a number from one to five. It is never used.

The Flute of the Wandering Albatross can debuff the enemy? It doesn't says "allies only".


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I would like to question the idea of giving characters boons like the Hedge Knight's Dark Ties. That boon as good as nothing right now, although the other two is pretty sweet.

A release version of Vandalands-Ordenstaat will come out within the 2nd edition book?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Axony Imperial Duke's Patient Commander is also a little bit counter-intuitive. On level 1-3 it creates an interesting strategy to let the duke activate last. Level 4? Screw that, it's just passive bonus from now on.

Galen wrote:More things I noticed:

Pg 170 - Sohei Toad - Unit type is listed as Sohei Toad
Pg 64 – Shrew Carbineer – All stat #s missing
Pg 91 – Kernish Terrier – Unit type listed as Horde Infantry (1st Ed. nomenclature?)
Pg 230 – Loxadon – Base size is listed as 40mm. If this is correct the artwork definitely adds a few tons

1) Sohei Toad should be Infantry
2) So they are! I'll note this in our document so Cyp sees it.
3) Horde is still used, Infantry is just their unit Designation. Though looking at other Horde units (Hamster Berserkers), it seems that we've dropped the infantry from them.
4) Bases Size should be 60mm for the Zabaran Chieftain, noted

In the Units section pricing goes Food/Lumber/Gold, but in the Seige Weapons Section the cost order is Gold, Lumber. The symbols are clear, but when I was building a force I started copying numbers down in the order they appeared and didn't catch my mistake until after I had built an illegal force.
Would it make sense to make the cost order consistent throughout?

It would make sense, though the way it's listed is carried over from 1st Edition. That's a Cyporiean call on that one

WhiteRoo wrote:Trebuchet:
In the description of the trebuchet, a mysterious X variable is mentioned which can be a number from one to five. It is never used.

the X variable is used when determining range. Say you choose x=3, you then roll 3d10, getting 6, 4, and 8 as your results. Add those together and add 5, you place the marker 23 inches from the base of the trebuchet.

The Flute of the Wandering Albatross can debuff the enemy? It doesn't says "allies only".

It doesn't debuff enemy models... it affects ALL models.

Also, I would like to question the idea of giving characters boons like the Hedge Knight's Dark Ties. That boon as good as nothing right now, although the other two is pretty sweet.

A release version of Vandalands-Ordenstaat will come out within the 2nd edition book?

Might be a safe assumption >_>, which would mean that Dark Ties isn't useless

The Axony Imperial Duke's Patient Commander is also a little bit counter-intuitive. On level 1-3 it creates an interesting strategy to let the duke activate last. Level 4? Screw that, it's just passive bonus from now on.

Interesting take on that... The way I see it is, yes Patient Commander gives you a reason to activate him last, but remember if you're taking your 4 Talent Points and putting them into just Patient Commander, you're severely limiting the other things that he can do. So if you choose to take Rank 4 PC, all of your models will get +1Ar, +1DE, and 9+ crits until the end of their activations, and the Duke may also make charge reactions as free activations, in addition to keeping the bonuses from Patient Commander. There are few things in the game that let you activate after you've activated. But then again, it's not a price to pay for taking that 4th rank, it's supposed to make it more versatile... If that makes sense.

 Galen wrote:
Bunch of stuff

All fixed, Thanks.

Loxy should be on a 120mm base.

 WhiteRoo wrote:
Trebuchet:
In the description of the trebuchet, a misterious X variable is mentionned which can be a number from one to five. It is never used.

It does, reread step 2.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

The Flute of the Wandering Albatross can debuff the enemy? It doesn't says "allies only".

Correct, it effects everyone on the table.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

Also, I would like to question the idea of giving characters boons like the Hedge Knight's Dark Ties. That boon as good as nothing right now, although the other two is pretty sweet.

A release version of Vandalands-Ordenstaat will come out within the 2nd edition book?

Future Proofing, Jacques of Martinique is the first Ordenstaat model to be released.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

The Axony Imperial Duke's Patient Commander is also a little bit counter-intuitive. On level 1-3 it creates an interesting strategy to let the duke activate last. Level 4? Screw that, it's just passive bonus from now on.

You're misreading the ability.

Additional Effect:
The Duke always has Patient Commander even after activating and may make Charge Reactions as Free Activations.

Rank 1-3 make you want to activate the Duke last, Rank 4 makes it so if you have to activate him eariler then The Duke (and only The Duke) still has the Rank 1-3 benefits applied to him (along with Free Charge Reactions).

So that's how the Trebuchet supposed to work... I think the text over-complicates it. This X thing only appears there, so not as a reader is prepared to face it. It would be much clearer as "Choose a number from 1 to 5 and roll that many d10, then add 5" or something.

As now, Dark Ties look useless because it is useless.

So the Flute can be used to srcew enemy unit ranges then?

The duke on lv4 becomes an entirely different beast to tackle. The ability looses counter-play altogether. Until then it is interesting to fight against, to try and beat the activation out of him. From lv4, there is no counterplay. it's army is on +1 AR, +1 DE and 9+ crits, and the devon brigardiers power is doubled and there is nothing to do about it. Well, killing is always an option, but if I play that model, I would just bunker it.

 WhiteRoo wrote:
So that's how the Trebuchet supposed to work... I think the text over-complicates it. This X thing only appears there, so not as a reader is prepared to face it. It would be much clearer as "Choose a number from 1 to 5 and roll that many d10, then add 5" or something.

We'll see about rewording it.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

As now, Dark Ties look useless because it is useless.

A model having the Aquatic ability is usless without water terrain being a key factor of the table being used, some things are situational.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

So the Flute can be used to srcew enemy unit ranges then?

Its nick named 'The Vandalands Horn'

 WhiteRoo wrote:

The duke on lv4 becomes an entirely different beast to tackle. The ability looses counter-play altogether. Until then it is interesting to fight against, to try and beat the activation out of him. From lv4, there is no counterplay. it's army is on +1 AR, +1 DE and 9+ crits, and the devon brigardiers power is doubled and there is nothing to do about it. Well, killing is always an option, but if I play that model, I would just bunker it.

It doesn't work that way at all.

Rank 4 does not change how Rank 1-3 works for an Axony Army. The ONLY change is that The Duke with the ability continues to have the bonuses after he activates, and The Duke gets free Charge Reactions.

Yeah, Alf's not awake yet and misread Patient Commander

Hang on... After a lv4 Patient Commander Duke activates, the effect of Patient Commander is lost, except for the duke?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I can put water pieces on the table, but I can't put Vandalands-Ordeerstat units. It's a different kind of situational.

Read Patient Commander carefully..

Ranks 1, 2, and 3, all say All Friendly Models get a bonus until the end of the the Model's Activation (in this case referring to The Duke). Which gives you the perfect reasoning for activating the Duke last. Rank 4 specifically mentions the Duke is able to keep the bonuses after he activates. Giving you some benefit to activating him if you need to before hand.

Also remember, you're putting ALOT into a single talent point just to get to Rank 4...

Also, we're future-proofing so when Vandalands-Ordenstaat is released, we don't have to get reprints of the rulebook done simply because we decided to release them. It also means you don't have to buy another book down the road to replace your "out of date because we changed a single sentence" book...

I's suggest a re-word on the Patient Commander ability then.

The third rank says:
"Additional Effect: All Friendly Models treat their Attack Rolls of 9+ as a Critical Hit."

It isn't say "until the end of the Model’s Activation.", so it's an all-time passive ability itself.

On rank four it says:
"Additional Effect: The Duke always has Patient even after activating and may make Charge Reactions as Free Activations."

The "Patient" ability actually isn't defined, but it must be the abilities combined trough level 1-3 minus the "until the end of the Model’s Activation."

Which left us with this: "All Friendly Models gain +1 AR, All Friendly Models gain +1 DE and All Friendly Models treat their Attack Rolls of 9+ as a Critical Hit."

Patient Commander is the Duke's ability to begin with. The Ability itself extends to all friendly units.

New render of the PDF is incoming...

The various typos pointed out by Galen and Whiteroo have been corrected.

Clarity question: the Vandaland Warlord Blade Spin tree. Level one lets him attack all models in B2B. Level two gives him reach. Is the intention to allow him to then make an attack against everyone within his reach or no?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And not exactly about 2.0 per se, but can you drop any hints to the Ordenstaadt you keep mentioning lately? Sounds like they will be in the Merc book at some point? They sound RIGHT up my alley (knights) and I am super curious about them.

 kenshivalion wrote:
Clarity question: the Vandaland Warlord Blade Spin tree. Level one lets him attack all models in B2B. Level two gives him reach. Is the intention to allow him to then make an attack against everyone within his reach or no?

Yes, Rank 1 is just B2B, rank 2 would make that any models that are also in B2B with those models.

 kenshivalion wrote:

And not exactly about 2.0 per se, but can you drop any hints to the Ordenstaadt you keep mentioning lately? Sounds like they will be in the Merc book at some point? They sound RIGHT up my alley (knights) and I am super curious about them.

Yep, Knights, Knights, and some more Knights. These guys are basically the opposite of Vandaland's high body count/low Armor; small numbers with heavy armor. The Inquisition also has other ..horrors.. under its control that will be included.