Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Well I just went from "probably going to play Vandalands" to "what other factions?", so thank you for helping an indecisive gamer out. Sounds like they will be a mini faction of Mercs but I can always use the Hedge Knight to make them Vandals.

I have an email from Wargames Vault from 1/13/2012 thanking me for purchasing Brushfire - Historia Rodentia , but I didn't see an email about the 2nd edition beta?

Not necessarily worried about that, as if it's an early beta any games I get in may just be done with the current rules (as I don't know if my opponents, which would be Gymnogyps or Wehrkind, would have access to the beta). But, I figured it was worth mentioning that I didn't get an email about 2nd.

I just logged into Wargame Vault and I have download links in my library to Brushfire_Historia_Rodentia_1.2-web.pdf , and BFHR-Mercs.pdf , but not the second edition beta.

Anyway, just FYI!

Do you have the 'I'd like to get special offers and discounts' button turned on in your account?

Also, just to be clear the reason I'm referring to an email is these two posts:

Alfndrate wrote:If you've got the PDF copy, you should be seeing an email from OTL about 2nd Ed pdf. I just got mine.

Casey's Law wrote:Got the email! I'll check it out soon.

And, of course, the fact that I don't see it in my library on Wargame Vault seems to indicate that I don't have access to it / didn't just miss an email (although I've looked to try to be sure). Again, all just FYI

Yeah, the e-mails have gone out...

Goto your WGV account, click the 'Select how I wish to be contacted by publishers.' link and make sure that you are set to receive e-mails...

 Cyporiean wrote:
Do you have the 'I'd like to get special offers and discounts' button turned on in your account?

I'm not sure about that, but under On The Lamb I have the "Receive Emails?" button set to "Yes". I also got a message from On The Lamb through Wargames Vault on March 7th about the update to the Rulebook PDF (having the Mercenary PDF included).

On The Lamb sent you this email through Wargame Vault to alert you that the file for Brushfire - Historia Rodentia has been updated. You can get the updated version now at your My Library page.

If you would like to change how you receive emails from On The Lamb, go here or copy this URL into your internet browser: http://www.wargamevault.com/account_contact_options.php. Once you log into your account, you can change your email settings for On The Lamb.

So, I went to that URL and I do have "Receive Emails?" set to yes for On The Lamb, and obviously I got this email about the rulebook PDF on March 7th, so I'm not sure what the difference is.

You should have gotten it then, I'll send it directly to you again. (doing a bit of a work around).

The 'Update' e-mails go out no matter what, but anything about a special discount (which what the 2.0 mailout was) only goes out to people who select to get spammed by us.. so if you didn't have it set, you wouldn't have gotten it.

Otherwise, maybe your spam filter doesn't like us?

Yeah, I'll look in the spam filter too, odd that it would catch an email now but not the one on March 7th, though . I'll PM you my email just in case you don't have it. Thanks

I know I sent this to you on facebook, but I'm putting it here for organization

Claymore is listed as a unique equipment under the Bearded Highlander, but they no longer have the "highlanders" rule (which detailed the rules for the claymore), and it's not listed in the Axony Unique Equipment area.

I have been putting together my thoughts on building a Zabar army and before I posted them I wanted to confirm one thing.

Is it correct that Hyenas, War-Hogs, and Corsairs all cost 5/5/5 per model? I noticed that this is a change from 1st Ed. (I picked up the pdf for reference)

Yes, that is correct.

This is something that I've been thinking about, I know that not every model has had their resource price changed, but several "stock" models that you're liable to see in an army of faction x, y, or z (like rat raiders, Weasel Fusiliers, etc...)... With the switch to the "standard equipment plus must take one of 3 options", this is cementing the standard game in the smaller point categories is it not?

Like looking at my Chugokan Color Guard, they have had their food price dropped, and really have no upgrades other than a heater if I remember correctly. This means that for 5 fd and 5 lr, I can get access to a larger unit (or more smaller units) for less fd. This means that in a 50 resource game I could have up to 2 units of 5 with varied equipment, and still have plenty of lr and gd to spend on other things. That means that to reach 200 resources (something that was pretty easily obtainable by my small collection) of just my Chugoku, I'm looking at something like this:

Some Hero of Some Level
10 CCG (Red Wu) w/ Heater and Dagger-Ax - 50fd/50lr
10 CCG (Red Wu) w/ Heater and Bingfa - 50fd/50lr
10 CCG (Red Wu w/ Heater and Bingfa 50fd/50lr - (since my non crossbow unit has to take an option lol)
5 Lem Han w/Medium Armor and Rifles - 50fd/50lr/75gd

That leaves me with a solid 125 gold left to purchase things with, which I may not even spend .

Though now that I'm putting it out on paper, it doesn't seem too bad... I was expecting myself to have to spend and spend and spend to reach a 200 resource army. Hell, I don't have the ability to take an exemplar or most Siege Weapons.

That's what I was talking about on the last topic.
Think about Vandalands who will fatherland everything it doesn't want to spend on siege stuff into Rat Raiders and Hamsters.

Just the starting warband can fatherland in 10 more Rat Raiders.

 WhiteRoo wrote:
That's what I was talking about on the last topic.
Think about Vandalands who will fatherland everything it doesn't want to spend on siege stuff into Rat Raiders and Hamsters.

Just the starting warband can fatherland in 10 more Rat Raiders.

But that's how Vandalands are supposed to play... They are the Horde faction... Much like Civitas is the "Mercs" faction because they can convert unused resources into gold.

My post was not, "there isn't enough to buy" it was, "the resource changes are bringing the game a smaller point size (which I'm okay with).

I was talking with Cy last night shortly after I made that post, My list is solid. I have a good smattering of ranged and melee, and fast things, I have no food and no lumber left, I don't have to spend all of my remaining gold, and even if I buy 1 horn, 1 banner, and 1 item for my Hero, I'm left with 105 gold and yet my list doesn't suffer. Sure I can't buy exemplars, siege weapons, or fortifications (those all cost lumber), but my list is fine.

Though she and I were tossing around the idea of allowing mercs from within Chugoku to be hired by other Chugokan empires. So like say I'm running Bao Yu the Red Claw Tactician, with the list I posted above. It'd be an interesting thing if I was able to purchase Wei Pine and Shu Hare Mercs for the remaining gold I had left.

But then we also discussed the idea of not having to fill up your points, because we know that other games you try to get as close as possible to the points limit in order to maximize the bodies on the table. In Brushfire we don't to really worry about that because we have 3 resources. With the exception of Civitas and Vandalands, every faction is going to have roughly the same number of bodies on the board, depending on what they buy. I mean in my list above, I could have purchased another unit of Red Wu with no heaters, and had 50 lr to spend on an exemplar or fortifications. But I chose to go with Lem Han because they provide an excellent tactical advantage, namely their speed and their upgrades. Rifles are better than most people give them credit for, and medium armor isn't a laughing matter. But that's whats great about wargames, because two people with the same army can play it two totally different ways.

Like you could stock up on a horde of rat raiders, fatherlanding them until you have a small swarm of them. Whereas I could run a Hussar and Valkyr list and fatherland any remaining resources into giving them screens of Rat Raiders. There isn't 1 set list, and honestly if we made a faction where there was 1 set, "auto-win" list, then I think we failed somewhat.

I have managed to read trough the basic rules of the secound edition rulebook. I list here the things that did not became clear to me or I think I would not know if I would read the book in the fist time.

Things the rulebook doesn't explain clearly:

-Are Fearsome units immune to Fearsome? In wargames I know they are.
-Infantry models with ranged weapons can shoot out from a garrison? Can a modell move to a garrison, shoot, then enter the garrison?
-Pathfinder: It has to be forest terrain or just hard(forest-like) terrain? what about like a.. park full of statues or ruins and so on.
-Sniper: Are attacks made with the Sniper ability can roll over? Sniper shot choose targets whitin a squad after all.
-The Term "Attack Roll Over" should be explained among the terms.
-Can you use the "return to cohesion" rule to activate a model with this squad that is too far away to be in cohesion and was not part of the squad in the previrous activation but otherwise is able to activate with these models as a squad?
-From how far away can you return to cohesion? If a five member squad on 30mm base is streched out to the maximum cohesion distance in a line, the distance between the two models at the edges is four times 3 inch plus 3 times 30mm, that's more than a feet. If the middle 3 model is taken out, can the remaining two return to chesion from a feet away from eachoter? Hordes can do this to reach amazing distances.
-Can you move into B2B to a Fearsome model and cheat the Fearsome check?
-How much of the model's base must be in line of sight to make the model be in line of sight? How this is calculated exatly?
-What happens if a unit gets lighten up with fire by an effect that causes no damage otherwise(like tactical/heroic action)? Is it threated as the model is hit with a 0 damage attack?
-Poison attack blocked by shield armor are considered as hit by poisoned weapon?
-I know there is a unit with gun that can use the heavy bolt ability. Does it recieves the free charge reaction also when uses the heavy bolt?
-How you aim with the Grenade? Is it template? Is it targets a squad?
-Hyperian fire lasts how long?
-It is not listed what happens when one shoots corpses with the trebuchet.
-"For a 5G upgrade, the Siege Ram Ignores Body Armor" - You can attack units with a siege ram?
-"The Gate causes Fire to Models that Charge it or attempt to use a Siege Ram." - What? Why? Is that a hellgate?
-A trench may not be destroyed, right? Then why it has Vitality and armor? how an enemy can move in or trought a trench? Isn't a trench is basically a hole in the ground?

The highest TS or HR often doesn't comes from any of the heroes, or units that have influence range. I find this strange, especially if when my ally-tageting heroic action gets negated by someone in the enemy army who is no leader at all. It's more annoying when this unit is in close combat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Back to the fatherlandig.

In the end can you spend that gold or not?

Because if you can't, Vandaland is in a clear advantage since it can. Once the match starts your remaining gold is wasted while Vandalands doesn't waste anything.

While 100 gold in a 200 resource army is quite a large chunk of gold, I don't feel you have that large of an advantage. Since I have 20 models on the board with Crossbows that can always make a charge reaction, I'm not too too worried about being out activated. Yeah my Red Wu dropped a lot in their skills (going from a 5 Might and 3 Grace to a 2 in MS and RS)/

And like I said, if I didn't take the Lem Han, I would be able to fill out my gold easier.

Some Hero of Some Level w/Bugle of Hunter's Quarry and
10 CCG (Red Wu) w/ Heater and Dagger-Ax - 50fd/50lr
09 CCG (Red Wu) w/ Heater and Bingfa - 45fd/45lr
10 CCG (Red Wu w/ Bingfa 50fd
10 CCG (Red Wu w/ Bingfa 50fd

Siege Weapons:
Trebuchet
Trebuchet
Trebuchet

Fortifications:
Castle Tower
Castle Wall
Castle Tower
Castle Wall
Castle Tower

And because I want an ambushing unit of Red Wu in my army, and I don't have much left to buy, I'll drop 1 Red Wu w/Heater and Bingfa to get 5lr so I can purchase Gan Zi to run with that same crew (if I had 5lr more, I wouldn't have to do this).

That leaves me with 60 gold left to spend... and a really solid army. I deploy 3 Dagger-ax CCG at each tower with the Trebuchet, in each Castle Wall I place the CCG with Bingfa. Gan Zi and Red Wu are held in reserves to ambush from a Forest or River piece, generally behind your force.

And it would take a lot of rats to crumble the walls...


As to some of your other questions, I'll answer the ones I know for certain.

-How much of the model's base must be in line of sight to make the model be in line of sight? How this is calculated exatly?

If you can draw a line from your base to their base, they are in line of sight. If you have to pass through terrain,you check to see if you have 2inches of terrain to pass through. This is explained on page 15 of the pdf under Ranged phase where LoS is the most important (not to say that it's not important in the melee phase, but for the most part you'll be in line of sight in the melee phase.

-I know there is a unit with gun that can use the heavy bolt ability. Does it recieves the free charge reaction also when uses the heavy bolt?

Heavy Bolt is generally only on Crossbows and is the ability that gives the free charge reaction because it's a part of the ability's sentence. I don't know of any rifles or pistols that have Heavy Bolt. If a unit has both Crossbows and Rifles, they have to decide which one they're using. If they used Rifle earlier in the turn, they cannot get the free charge reaction as they don't have their crossbows at the ready.

-How you aim with the Grenade? Is it template? Is it targets a squad?

It works like any other ranged weapon. It's not a template (because it doesn't say it is). You target a model like any other ranged attack and make it against that model. Unlike other ranged weapons, the grenade is 1 time use.

-Hyperian fire lasts how long?

Cy corrected me on this, see below.

-It is not listed what happens when one shoots corpses with the trebuchet.

It is listed, it's just not bolded. It reads (and Corpses needs to be bolded: Corpse: All Models within 10” must make a Fearsome Roll against a
TD of 10.

-"For a 5G upgrade, the Siege Ram Ignores Body Armor" - You can attack units with a siege ram?

No, but some fortifications have regular AR and Shield AR

-"The Gate causes Fire to Models that Charge it or attempt to use a Siege Ram." - What? Why? Is that a hellgate?

The models manning the gate are dropping fire on you, part of the reason why you can't go through it because the invisible mice that man the gate won't let enemies through.

-A trench may not be destroyed, right? Then why it has Vitality and armor? how an enemy can move in or trought a trench? Isn't a trench is basically a hole in the ground?

Where does it say a trench my not be destroyed?

I feel like I've said this at least 5 times already... Heavy bolt gives you the free charge reaction. If it didn't it wouldn't be a part of the ability's sentence.

Hyperian Fire remains in play forever, you cannot extinguish it.

I'll get to the rest of your questions after some caffeine.

These aren't much as questions as feedback from the rulebook.

And I can't get over the Heavy Bolt thing because it's a two-fold ability that has an effect both in the ranged phase and when charge reaction happens.

The unit in question this time is the Aquatar Venture Co. Riflemunk. It can give it's gun Heavy Bolt.

It's Steady Hands ability is clearly a ranged phase ability and whily rifling and quick nock clearly only affects the ranged phase, Heavy Bolt is different. So, choosing Heavy Bolt will give the Riflemunk the free charge reaction for that turn?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Invisible fire-throwing mice are cool.

By the way as the walls and gates are priced, switching out all the walls into gates with the fire mice is looks like good idea.

Um... Where does it say that Rifling and Quick Nock only affects the ranged phase?

Playtest rules, Page 19 wrote:Counterfire - If your defenders
have ranged weapons, before
the Charging Models make their
attacks, your defenders make
ranged attacks against them.

The bolded emphasis is mine.

Playtest rules, Page 28 wrote:Quick Nock - This weapon
may make two attacks, but the
second attack has a -2 RS. If the
Model has not moved, it may
fire at a different Squad with
the second attack.

Rifling - A failed Ranged Attack
with this weapon may be
rerolled once per phase.

I'm not 100 percent on Quick Nock, but when you counterfire, you make a ranged attack. Looking at Rifling, it looks like you'd be able to easily get to reroll missed rifle shots. I'm fairly certain you'd get the same option with Quick Nock since it doesn't say during the Ranged Phase.

Heavy bolt just always allows someone to make a charge reaction even if they've already activated. The other abilities would only apply during the Charge Reaction IF you hadn't activated the squad being charged yet.

The Riflemunks are slightly different since they have to choose what they use, since they don't have a regular rifle. They have a Sniper Rifle which has the Steady Hands rule. So if they had yet to be activated that turn, they could choose Heavy Bolt during their counterfire reaction, make the attack and then have Heavy Bolt for the rest of the turn. If they had already activated and decided to give them rifling or quick nock, they wouldn't be able to make a charge reaction. It's very similar to the Weasel Fusiliers that in 1st edition could take both a rifle and a crossbow. They would have to pick which weapon they were using. With their update to 2nd edition, this is no longer the case.

Ah, I see... That's how it works then... Thanks. I would like to suggest to rearrange the text on the armory section and put these abilities into the common weapon ability list then, because they are not unique to their weapon anymore. That would clear up a lot of confusion in my opinion. Same goes to the Pistolieer, and the Pilum.

WhiteRoo wrote:
-Are Fearsome units immune to Fearsome? In wargames I know they are.

No. Only units that are Immune to Fearsome are Immune to Fearsome.

WhiteRoo wrote:-Infantry models with ranged weapons can shoot out from a garrison?

No, they are considered off the table when in the Garrison.

WhiteRoo wrote:Can a modell move to a garrison, shoot, then enter the garrison?

They move into the Garrison at the end of their movement phase, so no.

WhiteRoo wrote:-Pathfinder: It has to be forest terrain or just hard(forest-like) terrain? what about like a.. park full of statues or ruins and so on.

Forest Terrain is explained in the terrain section.

WhiteRoo wrote:-Sniper: Are attacks made with the Sniper ability can roll over? Sniper shot choose targets whitin a squad after all.

No, you pick your target before rolling and all shots must go against that target.

WhiteRoo wrote:-The Term "Attack Roll Over" should be explained among the terms.

We'll see about doing that.

WhiteRoo wrote:-Can you use the "return to cohesion" rule to activate a model with this squad that is too far away to be in cohesion and was not part of the squad in the previrous activation but otherwise is able to activate with these models as a squad?

If it wasn't a part of the squad in the previous turn you cannot use 'Return to Cohesion'.

WhiteRoo wrote:-From how far away can you return to cohesion? If a five member squad on 30mm base is streched out to the maximum cohesion distance in a line, the distance between the two models at the edges is four times 3 inch plus 3 times 30mm, that's more than a feet. If the middle 3 model is taken out, can the remaining two return to chesion from a feet away from eachoter? Hordes can do this to reach amazing distances.

Yes, and the models have their speed reduced by 2.

WhiteRoo wrote:-Can you move into B2B to a Fearsome model and cheat the Fearsome check?

Yes, and like 'walking' into b2b with any other Fearsome model you don't get any of the benefits of charging.

WhiteRoo wrote:-How much of the model's base must be in line of sight to make the model be in line of sight? How this is calculated exatly?

If you can see some part of the base you can shoot, but the model likely has Cover. Nearest point to Nearest Point.

WhiteRoo wrote:-What happens if a unit gets lighten up with fire by an effect that causes no damage otherwise(like tactical/heroic action)? Is it threated as the model is hit with a 0 damage attack?

Yes.

WhiteRoo wrote:-Poison attack blocked by shield armor are considered as hit by poisoned weapon?

If the attack successfuly hits, it applies the poison effect. Shield Armor doesn't can this at all.

WhiteRoo wrote:-I know there is a unit with gun that can use the heavy bolt ability. Does it recieves the free charge reaction also when uses the heavy bolt?

All special abilities follow this syntax: 'Name - Ability Text'. All of the 'Ability Text' after 'Name -' applies to 'Name -'.

Heavy Bolt - This weapon deals +1 DE on a Critical Hit; and may be used as a Free Activation to make the Counterfire Charge Reaction.

WhiteRoo wrote:-How you aim with the Grenade? Is it template? Is it targets a squad?

Its a Ranged Weapon, it works like every other range weapon.

WhiteRoo wrote:-Hyperian fire lasts how long?

Forever.

WhiteRoo wrote:-It is not listed what happens when one shoots corpses with the trebuchet.

Its listed in the Trebuchet ammo section.

Corpse: All Models within 10” must make a Fearsome Roll against a TD of 10.

WhiteRoo wrote:-"For a 5G upgrade, the Siege Ram Ignores Body Armor" - You can attack units with a siege ram?

No, but Fortification have armor.

WhiteRoo wrote:-"The Gate causes Fire to Models that Charge it or attempt to use a Siege Ram." - What? Why? Is that a hellgate?

The gate keeper drops boiling oil on the enemy. Historical!

WhiteRoo wrote:-A trench may not be destroyed, right? Then why it has Vitality and armor? how an enemy can move in or trought a trench? Isn't a trench is basically a hole in the ground?

The hole's only natural enemy is the pile.
You can easily collapse a trench, making it unusable.

WhiteRoo wrote:The highest TS or HR often doesn't comes from any of the heroes, or units that have influence range. I find this strange, especially if when my ally-tageting heroic action gets negated by someone in the enemy army who is no leader at all. It's more annoying when this unit is in close combat.

Sometimes soldiers are smarter then their COs, ask a Veteran about this.

 WhiteRoo wrote:
Ah, I see... That's how it works then... Thanks. I would like to suggest to rearrange the text on the armory section and put these abilities into the common weapon ability list then, because they are not unique to their weapon anymore. That would clear up a lot of confusion in my opinion. Same goes to the Pistolieer, and the Pilum.

That's doable.

The gates are still a mistery to me. Do you get the invisible fire mice for free? I think this fire thing should only work if the defender do put some defenders on the gate.

Anyway why don't walls have invisible fire mice to throw down fire then? Can I build my castle out of gates? They are not much weaker than the walls, my units can go trought it free, they are 5 gold cheaper and have invisible fire mice. It's ridicious, but if it stupid but works, it's not stupid at all.

Whiteroo... there aren't actually mice there... the effect works without you having to have models there.to operate it.

The walls don't have the fire effect because.gates were usually trapped with hot oil or something like that... it also was easier to break through a gate instead of a wall...

Yes, if you would like to build your fortress out of gates you can.

We were trying to make these things simple, since normally people like simple things.

Yeah I know, it's just so funny...

But it's also pretty confusing that a gate on it's own can fight back. It's not what I'd call simple.

Consider it just trapped then? Like there are small ropes along the base that YOU know about, but your OPPONENT doesn't know about. So when they walk up to the gate, they trip the wire and *BAM* oil in the face.

Its simple when you compare it.to the fact that it just works... we don't have to tell you to treat it like a siege weapon or to add on rules saying froendly models need to operate it...

Okay, but why walls can't have it? Pouring over hot stuff from walls was also a big thing, not just from gates.

Like you can upgrade walls with a cauldron that does this.

I'd like to suggest to rewording on the siege ram so that it says it ignores the armor on the gate since those are not body armors (maybe include walls and other fortifications. I think siege ramming down a wall sound's wierd, but okay).

Also if the siege ram is just operated by four MS 2 units, with the 5g upgrade it can take down a gate on one swing. Unless a 1 is rolled. So it's pretty powerful. The units would die because of the fire, but how else you gonna take that gate down. It's can't be avoided.

Since there is only 4 unit can operate it, wording it like "add the 4 highest MS together" is not needed. Just "add the operators MS together".

The ram can take down the walls too with ease. With upgrade and a good roll, in one turn too!

Fully upgraded, it's a mini tank that goes around levelling everything on it's path.


Now I want to try it!

 WhiteRoo wrote:
Okay, but why walls can't have it? Pouring over hot stuff from walls was also a big thing, not just from gates.

You can put archers on the wall, but not on the gate.

 WhiteRoo wrote:
I'd like to suggest to rewording on the siege ram so that it says it ignores the armor on the gate since those are not body armors (maybe include walls and other fortifications. I think siege ramming down a wall sound's wierd, but okay).

]

All of the Fortifications have 'Body Armor', only the Gate has Shield Armor. You can use the Siege Ram against any of these.

 WhiteRoo wrote:
Also if the siege ram is just operated by four MS 2 units, with the 5g upgrade it can take down a gate on one swing. Unless a 1 is rolled. So it's pretty powerful. The units would die because of the fire, but how else you gonna take that gate down. It's can't be avoided.

You could take down the gate in many other ways, the Upgraded Siege Ram just makes things quicker so your units get at the meaty goodness inside.

 WhiteRoo wrote:
Since there is only 4 unit can operate it, wording it like "add the 4 highest MS together" is not needed. Just "add the operators MS together".

Doable.

 WhiteRoo wrote:
The ram can take down the walls too with ease. With upgrade and a good roll, in one turn too!

Fully upgraded, it's a mini tank that goes around levelling everything on it's path.

Shoot the operators. Shoot the Siege Ram.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also keep in mind that the operators of a Siege Ram move at Half Speed when dragging it, and cannot operate it in the same activation as moving it...

"body armor" on walls and gates and inanimate objecs sound's wierd to me.

Also, considering the fire, If I'd have the siege-ram-tank, I would take my chances on the wall pieces. Archers still can miss and can't ignore armor. This fire effect can't miss and ignores armor.