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 Silverthorne wrote:
Okay--- that's exactly my point. The fact that the Iraqis had a TON of combat experience fighting over the Shat-al-arab waterway in a bitter attritional war with the Iranians didn't prevent them from getting completely rolled by a force with virtually zero combat experience.

Not to be rude, but I think you missed the comparison entirely...

No, I got the comparison.

I just found it immaterial to the discussion at hand.

 Silverthorne wrote:
Okay--- that's exactly my point. The fact that the Iraqis had a TON of combat experience fighting over the Shat-al-arab waterway in a bitter attritional war with the Iranians didn't prevent them from getting completely rolled by a force with virtually zero combat experience.

Not to be rude, but I think you missed the comparison entirely...

The reason the Iraqi's rolled over was because we bombed them massively before the ground offensive. I dont think most people have a real appreciation of how badly we pounded on them ahead of time.

Anyway on topic, it occurred to me that Imperial Guard regiments are tithes TO Terra in a very imperialistic system. It is possible that all the guard regiments on Terra could be raised as tithes from other imperial worlds. I am not claiming this is in the fluff anywhere, just saying its a possibility until some background is written discounting it.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Silverthorne wrote:
Okay--- that's exactly my point. The fact that the Iraqis had a TON of combat expkidserience fighting over the Shat-al-arab waterway in a bitter attritional war with the Iranians didn't prevent them from getting completely rolled by a force with virtually zero combat experience.

Not to be rude, but I think you missed the comparison entirely...

No, I got the comparison.

I just found it immaterial to the discussion at hand.

Immaterial to the discussion of whether a combat experienced force would be out matched by a green but much more sophisticated army? Ummmm okay dude. It's the exact situation that was being discussed. Which is pretty obvious. Nice troll attempt though. Really really appreciate it. Seriously I have been posting here for 8 years and the trolling gets worse every single year

And no actually the initial air campaign didn't do as much damage to the mech divs as people today think. Armor still got far more Armor kills than air. Even if you include the highway of death. Far fewer smart bombs were used as a percentage of total ordnance dropped than people realize, below 20%. The Abrams and agtms reaped most of the kills.

 Silverthorne wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Silverthorne wrote:
Okay--- that's exactly my point. The fact that the Iraqis had a TON of combat expkidserience fighting over the Shat-al-arab waterway in a bitter attritional war with the Iranians didn't prevent them from getting completely rolled by a force with virtually zero combat experience.

Not to be rude, but I think you missed the comparison entirely...

No, I got the comparison.

I just found it immaterial to the discussion at hand.

Immaterial to the discussion of whether a combat experienced force would be out matched by a green but much more sophisticated army? Ummmm okay dude. It's the exact situation that was being discussed. Which is pretty obvious. Nice troll attempt though. Really really appreciate it. Seriously I have been posting here for 8 years and the trolling gets worse every single year

I don't think you quite understand what "trolling" is if you think someone disagreeing with you is "trolling".

 earlofburger wrote:
Are there any guard regiments that come from Terra? If there are, I'd imagine they would be the best equipped and high tech

does terra have a large population?

I always figured the entire planet was devoted to defenses, palaces, storage, administrative offices and more defenses.

Not sure how true this is bu here is some nunbers i found on the subject;

Army of Holy Terra:
(82.758.582 Strong)

Adeptus Custodes:
-10.000 Custodes Total
-Emperor's Personal Guard (300 Custodes)
-Further Organizational Details Classified M31

Legio Ignatum:
-3 Emperor Class Imperator Titans (Crew: 155)
-2 Emperor Class Warmonger Titans (Crew: 125)
-5 Warlord Battle Titans (Crew:32)
-3 Reaver Battle Titans (Crew:25)
-8 Warhound Titans (Crew:12)
-36 Imperial Knights (Crew:1)


60 Armored Divisions (1.003.750 Soldiers per Division)
Each Armored Division Contains:

-1.000 Stormtrooper Regiments
1.000 Stormtroopers per Regiment
100 Chimera Armored Personnel Carriers per Regiment

-5 Armored Regiments (750 Men per Armored Regiment):
200 Leman Russ Tanks per Regiment (20 Demolisher; 40 Exterminator; 140 Standard)
40 Hellhounds per Regiment
2 Superheavy Tanks per Regiment (1 Baneblade; 1 Shadowsword)

Remember this is not counting the Sisters of Battle, Inquisitorial, Noble Navis, Navy, Mechanicus and Astartes forces that on Terra at any one time.

Forgot the Imperial fists were on Terra as well I'm sure they will keep the guard stationed there in tip top shape But newest tech? I thought the Imperium had stagnated and thus were only able of replicating instead of creating? Anyways,.. i think i might have underestimated them slightly

The Swiss Guard is actually highly trained. They're like the Queen's Guard, they alternate between ceremonial stuff and proper military training, and you can bet that there's some armed and ready ones about being inconspicuous while the halberd wielding guys in tights parade by.

Which, incidentally, is how I imagine the Terran PDF would operate.

the color purple wrote:
The Swiss Guard is actually highly trained. They're like the Queen's Guard, they alternate between ceremonial stuff and proper military training, and you can bet that there's some armed and ready ones about being inconspicuous while the halberd wielding guys in tights parade by.

Which, incidentally, is how I imagine the Terran PDF would operate.

Though pretty hard trained soldiers doenst say it all. A cutthroat brawler could take a black belt martial artist down... it all comes down to insight, experience and instinct in the end IMO

Just because you have a machine gun that fires 1000k rounds per second at me doesnt mean i could skillfully kill you with a wild western revolver in 1 shot before you get a chance to fire at me

Surely it depends on how they train. I get the feeling that live fire exercises might be a bit more common in 40k...

 Silverthorne wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Silverthorne wrote:
Okay--- that's exactly my point. The fact that the Iraqis had a TON of combat expkidserience fighting over the Shat-al-arab waterway in a bitter attritional war with the Iranians didn't prevent them from getting completely rolled by a force with virtually zero combat experience.

Not to be rude, but I think you missed the comparison entirely...

No, I got the comparison.

I just found it immaterial to the discussion at hand.

Immaterial to the discussion of whether a combat experienced force would be out matched by a green but much more sophisticated army? Ummmm okay dude. It's the exact situation that was being discussed. Which is pretty obvious. Nice troll attempt though. Really really appreciate it. Seriously I have been posting here for 8 years and the trolling gets worse every single year

And no actually the initial air campaign didn't do as much damage to the mech divs as people today think. Armor still got far more Armor kills than air. Even if you include the highway of death. Far fewer smart bombs were used as a percentage of total ordnance dropped than people realize, below 20%. The Abrams and agtms reaped most of the kills.

First off, don't throw a hissy fit because someone disagrees with you.

As for your comparison, I don't think it applies because the style of warfare can't be compared, at all. Then theres the kind of tech level differences we are talking about, Iraqi tanks could hardly damage an Abrams. Even the lowest IG regiment has acces to Las Cannons and other high power ordinance that, regardless of tech level, will kill you. I doubt every Terran PDF trooper owns a tiny void shield generator. And, since most tech is still stuck with STC produced materials, the tech difference can never been that big anyway.

I love it when nerds justify sci-fi debates with RL.. Such nerd rage..
Anyways, I think a lot have forgotten that the Adeptus Munitorum will coalition different forces raised from different worlds (often they're PDF) and equip them with Munitorum equipment tithes from nearby forgeworlds. In this occurrence they name them from the world they were 'coalitioned' at.

I would think that the consistent population growth and immigration it would be neccasary to send the best (or knowing Terra the worst) of they're PDF habitually to the nearest Munitorum rather than bringing in foreign (and therefore possibly corrupt) tithes INTO Terran military.. In this case Terran PDF would keep the toys and the forces sent to the Munitorum world with stock standard equipment and would be equipped and clothed by the Adeptus Munitorum at the destination. Where they would be named for that world... For all we know Terran born Guard could have fought in every major conflict in local gear... (And most likely denied carrying the Title of Holy Terra)
This in turn would also be a cost effective and easy way to send out Terran only personsel (inquisitors/ Commissars/ Psychers/ Astropaths) to the entire universe undrr heavy guard habitually without inviting foreign armies into Terran space.

 Ribon Fox wrote:

60 Armored Divisions (1.003.750 Soldiers per Division)
Each Armored Division Contains:

-1.000 Stormtrooper Regiments
1.000 Stormtroopers per Regiment
100 Chimera Armored Personnel Carriers per Regiment

Interesting information but some of the figures don't add up. Each division is said to contain slightly over 1 million men, but 1000 regiments of stormtroopers, each numbers 1000 men, equals one million stormtroopers per division. That only leaves 3,750 men to crew the 100,000 Chimera's per division - 100 per regiment, 1000 regiments per division, 60 divisions total means Terra is protected by 6,000,000 chimeras!!!

6 million to transport the entire Terran military doesn't sound like enough to me, then again there are all the rhino and chimeras that aren't registered as PDF (such as inq & sisters.. Not to mention all the unnamed groups) by it still seems a little low...

MarsNZ wrote:

 Ribon Fox wrote:

60 Armored Divisions (1.003.750 Soldiers per Division)
Each Armored Division Contains:

-1.000 Stormtrooper Regiments
1.000 Stormtroopers per Regiment
100 Chimera Armored Personnel Carriers per Regiment

Interesting information but some of the figures don't add up. Each division is said to contain slightly over 1 million men, but 1000 regiments of stormtroopers, each numbers 1000 men, equals one million stormtroopers per division. That only leaves 3,750 men to crew the 100,000 Chimera's per division - 100 per regiment, 1000 regiments per division, 60 divisions total means Terra is protected by 6,000,000 chimeras!!!

Where does it say that stormtroopers can't drive?

5th Armored Terran Praefects were Destroyed in 739.M35 by the Daemon Prince Periclitor, mentioned in the 3.5 Chaos Codex.

THE LAST STAND OF THE 5th ARMOURED TERRAN PRAEFECTS
If the False Emperor will man tanks with scribes and clerks then we shall fill graves with fools and hypocrites.