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If you were sent through time there?

Well they do have the Ordo Chronos, or did.
They kind of see time travel as possibly interfering with the path of humanity and against the Emperor's will.

I am surprised at just how over the top powerful some people think a single space marine is. Even though it is a laser weapon, the imperial guard lasgun is just not all that formidable and it does not take a huge number of las guns to kill a single marine. As others have said a large caliber machine gun trained on a marine would just pulverize him.

 Psienesis wrote:
Low Gothic is a mix of English, all of the European languages, and various Pacific Islander dialects... developed over 38,000 years between now and then. Notice how hard Old English is to decipher from modern English? Yeah, now add another 37,000 years of development.

High Gothic descends from the language used to write tech manuals during the Dark Age of Technology.... so it might be Chinese, for all we know.

According to Rogue Trader, you've got it backwards. Low Gothic is an evolved mix of Terra's Oriental languages and High Gothic is an evolved assimilation of English, European, and Pacific languages.

I like how all of you just assume someone would get the chance of a perfect shot at a space marine. Or that someone would even get the chance of shooting at him. Or that all conclusions lead to a Space Marine being killed.

 LumenPraebeo wrote:
I like how all of you just assume someone would get the chance of a perfect shot at a space marine. Or that someone would even get the chance of shooting at him. Or that all conclusions lead to a Space Marine being killed.

You dont need the perfect shot, just a high volume of fire. If a puny lasgun can kill a marine a 50 calibre machine gun can for sure. Any scenario involving a unit from a modern army with heavy weapon support engaging a marine will end in the death of the marine because the marine will not surrender and the army would just keep upping the firepower until the job is finished. Its a single space marine, not superman, no kryptonite required.

Wait so this Space Marine is now invisible because no one can get a perfect shot on him at all? Or is he just backflipping all over the place, up and down transforming tanks while throwing sticks at our fighter jets?

It's so that he is a damn war veteran with super-strength and reflexes. From his youth as a scout he will certainly know a trick or two about basic survival and hiding.

Assumptions, assumptions you do not know if this machine gun will have a decent chance of penetrating his armor (remember, orks weapons are largely ineffective vs power armor and they use high-caliber ''machine guns'' as their basic weapon). Also a Las-gun is certainly a crappy at penetrating armor. And yes, lets all just assume that he will stand patiently just in front of your toys letting to pour fire into him... It will not take him long to realise that we are just big pussies and we will be very hesitant in using our firepower in habitable areas.

I see where you are going. I personally believe that we posses weaponary strong enough to kill him. But I doubt that we will have balls, skills and will to do that if needed. We are speaking here about super-human with immense technological edge and on top of that, we have combination of skill and experience that will have no match on this pacifistic planet.

A 50.cal ain't gonna penetrate a marines armour. A 50. cal is a heavy stubber, those have an ap value of 5.

Marines are nigh invulnerable to small arms fire, it's going to take anti tank weapons. Hell they shrug off autocanon shots as often as not as those are equivalent to tank cannons.

 rems01 wrote:
A 50.cal ain't gonna penetrate a marines armour. A 50. cal is a heavy stubber, those have an ap value of 5.

Marines are nigh invulnerable to small arms fire, it's going to take anti tank weapons. Hell they shrug off autocanon shots as often as not as those are equivalent to tank cannons.

To put things in perspective, a Heavy Bolter is (in some sources) 1.00 cal. A bolter is 0.75 cal. An autocannon fires a shell faster and much larger than a heavy bolter, lets assume its equivalent to most BFG nowadays. Also, it cant pen Power Armor but CAN pen most light tanks.

As I see is that a larger caliber have better chance to penetrate this armor. Power armor have its weak spots (joints or eyes) and it can be weakened after surviving few good impacts. Even if space marine can deflect an autocannon hit to his chest it doesn't mean that it's wise to try to repeat that. Same with bolters. It can kill him instantly if it's aimed accurately enough to his armor's weak spots with sustained accuracy. If not, front of his armor will shrug off hits and thus making space marine a very hard to kill in a range fight.


In any way, power armor's primary purpose is to protect wearer from small arms fire and to restrict his mobility as little as possible. Such things like terminator's or dreadnought's armor is in a different league of protection all together.

Ernestas wrote:
As I see is that a larger caliber have better chance to penetrate this armor. Power armor have its weak spots (joints or eyes) and it can be weakened after surviving few good impacts. Even if space marine can deflect an autocannon hit to his chest it doesn't mean that it's wise to try to repeat that. Same with bolters. It can kill him instantly if it's aimed accurately enough to his armor's weak spots with sustained accuracy. If not, front of his armor will shrug off hits and thus making space marine a very hard to kill in a range fight.

This is true however when the guy is running at you trying to smash your face in you only have a 1/6 chance to hit him. Then you have about a 1/100 chance to hit the weak point. And less likely to break through it. Im sure the helmet of a SM would be at least as strong as todays bullet proof vests. And if he has no helmet he has a 5++ for rule of cool.

In any way, power armor's primary purpose is to protect wearer from small arms fire and to restrict his mobility as little as possible. Such things like terminator's or dreadnought's armor is in a different league of protection all together.

Like I said as it doesn't restrict movement it would be hard to get an accurate shot off at a weak point due to the mobility of the armor.

Transported to the 41st millennium to the (because there's only one) UM fortress-monastery? Commit suicide, because they'll torture me for info on how I got there, and I won't be able to respond in any language they'll recognize. It is the "Grim Dark" future, y'know.

Space Marine gets transported here?

Well:

1) The modern day Challenger 2 battle tank has ceramic based armour. There's a fair chance a SM's power armour has been designed on a similar concept, but with +30,000 years of technology.
To this day not a single Challenger 2 has been destroyed in battle, even taking constant RPG fire has proven ineffective. I'd also like to point out that we have glass that can shrug off an RPG.
A SM's power armour is going to be damn hard to damage.

2) Lasguns in the TT game are only that effective to provide balance to the forc- I mean game. Otherwise we'd see a group of 5 marines take out a hundred+ guardsmen with little trouble. Sure, it may take a while, but they'd get there in the end.

3) Boltguns. He'll run out of ammo pretty quick once we start shooting him, but he's going to do some serious damage with it.

4) 7'+ power armoured muscle man wielding the biggest gun you've ever seen suddenly appears in front of you. 5 mins in, the police are facing him down. Maybe about an hour later, the city is being evacuated, and the military steps in. Because a police man will have shot him whilst trying to get him to drop his gun. The marine will start killing.

5) He runs out of ammo and starts getting in close. Using the city to fight guerrilla-style, he'll be massacring.

6) Eventually someone will decide to just bomb him. Many shells later, a large part of the city is in ruins, and the marine may or may not be alive, depending on whether the UN lets us use nukes or not.

Final result: between dozens and hundreds of casualties, depending on who wrote the crossover story. Possibly one dead space marine.

And what makes you assume everyone would want to kill him?
What makes you think he will kill everyone he sees? What makes all of you think violence is the first conclusion to seeing someone from the future/a fantasy world?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 n0t_u wrote:
Wait so this Space Marine is now invisible because no one can get a perfect shot on him at all? Or is he just backflipping all over the place, up and down transforming tanks while throwing sticks at our fighter jets?

Yes.

Holy GAK!! Some people take this gak way too seriously!!!

 LumenPraebeo wrote:
And what makes you assume everyone would want to kill him?
What makes you think he will kill everyone he sees? What makes all of you think violence is the first conclusion to seeing someone from the future/a fantasy world?

Because this guy will have a gun and probably a feth hueg combat blade/chainsaw. Someone (probably the police) will try to disarm him. He won't drop the gun, so they'll be forced to use some "force" to make him drop his weapons.

Ernestas wrote:
We are speaking here about super-human with immense technological edge and on top of that, we have combination of skill and experience that will have no match on this pacifistic planet.

I am wondering what planet you are posting from because during the 20th century estimates of war dead and genocides are over 100 million maybe as high as 140 million.

I really wonder why so many people believe that a single space marine is so powerful, it just goes way beyond how the background is presented. The armor is not perfect, it has weak spots at the joints and external cabling that can be damaged. It seems like people are so invested in the space marines that it is just unthinkable to them that current large calibre weapons could take them out. For those of you using the ap value to claim that a particular weapon or its hypothesized equivalent wont kill a marine I would like to let you know my lasguns have a high ap value and still kill marines on a regular basis. Enough AP - will kill a marine, you can rely on it.

In the rules and in the background material marines are regularly taken out by weapons far weaker than you would find on a modern attack helicopter.

^^^^^ Thank you Very much !

As a General note in all odds what would most likely kill the Marine would either be a SMAW or a Javaline AT rocket

This is true, lasguns do put marines out of service. Not kill. Fluffwise a lascannon shot could kill them, or it could just put them in a coma they come out of 3 months later good as new. Yes we have the tech to break the armor but fact of the matter is these guys don't go down easy. The black carapace is probably sufficient to deflect most modern small-caliber rifles and handguns, and a marine tough enough to ignore them if/when they get through. Then he'll be healed up by the next morning. As for power armor, its made of ceramite a few inches thick I think it would be more than sufficient to deflect the modern rifle. Lasguns are a focused laser that MELTS the ceramite, not pierces it. enough focused blasts and it would, in theory, melt a hole in the ceramite. Now, I dont know about you but I believe that's a wee bit out of our tech capabilities. We would have to rely on AP ammo and AT weapons to break it. On top of that this guy could carry the average .50 cal in one hand and punch skulls in with the other. So if he runs out of ammo for the bolter im sure he would adapt other weapons to his purposes.

JWhex wrote:

Ernestas wrote:
We are speaking here about super-human with immense technological edge and on top of that, we have combination of skill and experience that will have no match on this pacifistic planet.

I am wondering what planet you are posting from because during the 20th century estimates of war dead and genocides are over 100 million maybe as high as 140 million.

I really wonder why so many people believe that a single space marine is so powerful, it just goes way beyond how the background is presented. The armor is not perfect, it has weak spots at the joints and external cabling that can be damaged. It seems like people are so invested in the space marines that it is just unthinkable to them that current large calibre weapons could take them out. For those of you using the ap value to claim that a particular weapon or its hypothesized equivalent wont kill a marine I would like to let you know my lasguns have a high ap value and still kill marines on a regular basis. Enough AP - will kill a marine, you can rely on it.

In the rules and in the background material marines are regularly taken out by weapons far weaker than you would find on a modern attack helicopter.

Isn't the estimated kill count of the British Empire (genocides and wars combined) roughly one billion?

If I went to the 41st millenium - I'd be shot. Tortured for any information I had, then shot again.

PredaKhaine wrote:
If I went to the 41st millenium - I'd be shot. Tortured for any information I had, then shot again.

Pretty much my take, too.

JWhex wrote:

Ernestas wrote:
We are speaking here about super-human with immense technological edge and on top of that, we have combination of skill and experience that will have no match on this pacifistic planet.

I am wondering what planet you are posting from because during the 20th century estimates of war dead and genocides are over 100 million maybe as high as 140 million.

I was speaking about present and only ones who can project some considerable power if needed. Only ones who can do that is Western world, Russia and the East. I'm not sure about China and Japan. Sadly I can observe how weak NATO is, shackled with politics and pathetic budget. That little experience we have remaining in warfare despite having world full of opportunities. Only USA is different, but even they can't claim to be militaristic nation due to their populace. We have begun to value our personal well-being above ideas. Due to that, even USA can't be considered as militaristic nation. Their way of thinking is more of Imperialistic one (in a way, Europe thinks similarly with its isolationist policies) rather than militaristic one. Of course, they have shades of both, but is it sufficient to claim that they are militaristic and imperialistic nation? Even if we can, we in any way are just pathetic considered to most if not all famous Imperial guard regiments. Our martial power and way of thinking is far more similar to PDF's one.

 Selym wrote:

PredaKhaine wrote:
If I went to the 41st millenium - I'd be shot. Tortured for any information I had, then shot again.

Pretty much my take, too.

you wouldn't be shot. Dissected by an interrogator-servitor while still alive seems more grid mark 40k interrogation techniques.

If I went to the 41st millenium - I'd be shot, Dissected by an interrogator-servitor while still alive, then shot again.

thatguyhsagun wrote:
you wouldn't be shot. Dissected by an interrogator-servitor while still alive seems more grid mark 40k interrogation techniques.

Fix'd

Ernestas wrote:

JWhex wrote:

Ernestas wrote:
We are speaking here about super-human with immense technological edge and on top of that, we have combination of skill and experience that will have no match on this pacifistic planet.

I am wondering what planet you are posting from because during the 20th century estimates of war dead and genocides are over 100 million maybe as high as 140 million.

I was speaking about present and only ones who can project some considerable power if needed. Only ones who can do that is Western world, Russia and the East. I'm not sure about China and Japan. Sadly I can observe how weak NATO is, shackled with politics and pathetic budget. That little experience we have remaining in warfare despite having world full of opportunities. Only USA is different, but even they can't claim to be militaristic nation due to their populace. We have begun to value our personal well-being above ideas. Due to that, even USA can't be considered as militaristic nation. Their way of thinking is more of Imperialistic one (in a way, Europe thinks similarly with its isolationist policies) rather than militaristic one. Of course, they have shades of both, but is it sufficient to claim that they are militaristic and imperialistic nation? Even if we can, we in any way are just pathetic considered to most if not all famous Imperial guard regiments. Our martial power and way of thinking is far more similar to PDF's one.

The only relevance of your post to the discussion I suppose is how we would react to a space marine in present day but it is pretty thin. I suggest you do some more reading about world history both recent and ancient. The fact that you say that you are unsure whether or not China can project considerable military power suggests to me that you are not aware of the huge army, air force and nuclear missile capability of the Chinese. Japan was severely restricted in what kind of military force it could have when it surrendered after world war 2. Since that time, by treaty, Japan has relied on the USA for defense against other nations, even though in recent years they have increased military spending.

You said you were speaking of the present, but I would like to remind you that every adult living on the planet in the "present" was born in the 20th century. The USA is a very "militaristic" society and has been under both democratic and republican administrations. No one has really mentioned this yet but if a space marine really did appear out of nowhere and was assessed as a threat to national security he would be killed with a hell fire missile fired from a drone faster than you can say "Barack Obama" or "George W. Bush". For an overview of just how imperialistic the USA has been since world war II I suggest you read Hegemony or Survival: America's Quest for Global Dominance by Noam Chomsky.

Ernestas wrote:

JWhex wrote:

Ernestas wrote:
We are speaking here about super-human with immense technological edge and on top of that, we have combination of skill and experience that will have no match on this pacifistic planet.

I am wondering what planet you are posting from because during the 20th century estimates of war dead and genocides are over 100 million maybe as high as 140 million.

I was speaking about present and only ones who can project some considerable power if needed. Only ones who can do that is Western world, Russia and the East. I'm not sure about China and Japan. Sadly I can observe how weak NATO is, shackled with politics and pathetic budget. That little experience we have remaining in warfare despite having world full of opportunities. Only USA is different, but even they can't claim to be militaristic nation due to their populace. We have begun to value our personal well-being above ideas. Due to that, even USA can't be considered as militaristic nation. Their way of thinking is more of Imperialistic one (in a way, Europe thinks similarly with its isolationist policies) rather than militaristic one. Of course, they have shades of both, but is it sufficient to claim that they are militaristic and imperialistic nation? Even if we can, we in any way are just pathetic considered to most if not all famous Imperial guard regiments. Our martial power and way of thinking is far more similar to PDF's one.

I'd like to know why you think that we would be unable to defeat a SM with tactics. It's not like humanity hasn't been at war for the past... several thousand years.
Our militaries may be less funded than we'd like, but they're still powerful.

Then stop taunting me to reply and just ignore my rant about it.

I might didn't make it clear enough. China is still growing power. It have a lot of progress to make to equal out in power with world's superpowers, but I didn't excluded it from ''the east''. That I meant, that I'm not sure that theirs attitude is to military and how effective theirs military are. I know that USA is overthrowing governments left and right, but is that a true Imperialism compared to previous ones? I think that is just an imitation of it or just a shade of previous Imperialisms.

Also, remember hippies during vietnam's war and how USA had to pull out due to lost popular support. From since then, I fail to see how public view on military has changed. Recent conflicts just highlights how finite our patient and resources for war are. Due to that, we lack balls to properly do that's right if needed. I honestly doubt that we could repeat Great Britain's history during WW2. We keep failing at military conflicts which ones are more serious or different and that speaks poorly of us. War is expensive, true. But we fight without ever realising that. We do very little to change our lifestyles and expenditure in order to meet war's demands. Sparta had its laws tailored to foster martial virtue. Life in it was directed towards war and its society was hardened to meet demands of it. Ours is complete opposite of it. It's why I think that budget alone (only USA) might not be sufficient to call yourself an militaristic nation. You might have a shade of it, but it will not be your primary trait as Imperial guard's are.


Now look at Imperial Guard. They take their duty seriously. In most extreme cases like Death Korps of Krieg their society take their duty so seriously that they willingly sacrifice their humanity for Imperium's sake. Ours WW1's western front will be a joy for them for they will get a chance to bleed and torture their enemies in terrible war of attrition. Without a doubt I will say that their poorest soldiers will shame our elite. Or Moridian Iron Guard. They will follow orders to a letter. There is no supplies lost and no act of cowardice is ever committed. Human element is removed from their armies as much as it's in Death Korps of Krieg regiments. Or Cadians, whose teenagers boys are just as tough as battle hardened veterans. Maybe catachans whose genetic code is stretched to a limit. They hold nothing back, their brains are programmed to use all available resources meaning that they naturally grow muscular over a top rambos with superior reflexes, attention, perception and etc.
I could go on and go on. Imperial guard is not just a mere PDF. They have a culture supporting it martial virtue while we have culture which denounces same thing. They fight foes toe to toe from your nightmares while we whine given half a chance. They are free to act while we are not. They live in a constant warfare while we live in peace due to that they have experience in doing just about anything while we always have to improvise and learn during conflicts.


We tend to forget lessons learned during a war. Especially ones that require some real sacrifice to be used. Personally I think that we have already have forgotten most of that we had learned in a past.


Due to all of that, I have doubts about our performance versus an elite like space marine. I have no doubt about our ability to kill him, but I have doubts about efficiency with which it will be completed. Drones missiles might fail to do their job due to cover that space marine would decide to take. Marines might be torn to pieces in his chosen battlefield being unable to bring heavier guns to bear. He might just hide in cities from where more destructive weaponary will not be used.
I personally think that we will get slaughtered at the very moment then we will try to force him into submission. We will not be prepared for an initial fight, having light weaponary at first and later, he more likely will try to escape instead of fighting. Depending on where he are, he might just jump into a water, shut down his systems and slow his life signs to near stop or do just that in other completely unintuitive hiding place later relocating itself as enough time had passed.

The US alone packs enough non-nuclear missiles to stop a lone Space Marine, even if the Marine did try to hide in a city I'm pretty sure local government would seek help or just firebomb the city to eradicate the problem

JWhex wrote:

Ernestas wrote:
We are speaking here about super-human with immense technological edge and on top of that, we have combination of skill and experience that will have no match on this pacifistic planet.

I am wondering what planet you are posting from because during the 20th century estimates of war dead and genocides are over 100 million maybe as high as 140 million.

I really wonder why so many people believe that a single space marine is so powerful, it just goes way beyond how the background is presented. The armor is not perfect, it has weak spots at the joints and external cabling that can be damaged. It seems like people are so invested in the space marines that it is just unthinkable to them that current large calibre weapons could take them out. For those of you using the ap value to claim that a particular weapon or its hypothesized equivalent wont kill a marine I would like to let you know my lasguns have a high ap value and still kill marines on a regular basis. Enough AP - will kill a marine, you can rely on it.

In the rules and in the background material marines are regularly taken out by weapons far weaker than you would find on a modern attack helicopter.

140 million dead in a Century?

Sounds like a typical weekend for the Imperial Guard.

Seriously if a Space Marine dropped outsode my house and we cpuldn't just talk, I would show pictures of what was to come. The "Final Battle" HH artwork springs to mind, as does the Emperor on his throne, spiting maggots.