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Well they can't have just turned to Chaos otherwise they'd still be named.

Must have been alien conspirators!

I hear one legion were all mutated. They were Beliebers. Emprah expunged them from all records.

 Galdos wrote:

 Troike wrote:
IIRC, they said that when the last Primarch was found, all 20 had been found.

Also, the Horus Heresy series alludes that something bad happened with them and that the other Primarchs were forbidden to speak of them again. This would again imply that they were found, but were struck from records afterwards.

These legions are hinted to either be in stasis in an area only the Emperor can reach/know about or sent out on a crusade or something with no way to contact (or be contacted by) the Imperium. Primarchs have no hints on what happened to them if they remained with their legions or not.

Where were those hints dropped?

The reasons for the legions being expunged may not have been worse than the actions of the traitors during the heresy.

This hadn't happened before so whatever it was was deemed to be unusual and not to be spoken of again.

It's kind of hard to do that in the heresy when half the legions went rogue along with half the empire. That's too big to expunge, not to mention that the Emperor was put into the chair.

It might be something as simple as the Emperor being the only one who could have something expunged and he was no longer around to do it.

I think it more likely that it was seen as pointless expunging the traitors as there was no longer anything really to uphold. Everything changed after the heresy.

One primarch was mutated by chaos before he was found. So he's dead.

The other did something pretty awful, redeemed himself and his legion during the crusade, and as forgiveness the Emperor made them 'disappear'.

In my sig.

 Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:
As has been stated the lost legions where found and the primarchs swore oaths never to speak of them. It is even hinted that the Space Wolves where responsible for destroying one of the legions at the Emperors command which is why they where known as his executioners.

The incident you refer to is their tussle with the World Eaters when Russ tried to bring Angron's antics to heel. Nothing to do with the lost and the forgotten.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

timestreamer wrote:
Just popped in my mind, that one of these two lost chapters, might be linked to "Adeptus Mechanicus", "Librarians or Chaplains"?
And if canon says that full half of legions were corrupted, isn't this indication that one legion was on side of the Emperor and other with Horus? Maybe they both are gone because they were completely destroyed by Emperor's order to prevent the taint of chaos spreading more.....

They were gone before the Heresy. I'm not sure what you mean in the first part of your post.

 Alpharius wrote:

 Galdos wrote:

 Troike wrote:
IIRC, they said that when the last Primarch was found, all 20 had been found.

Also, the Horus Heresy series alludes that something bad happened with them and that the other Primarchs were forbidden to speak of them again. This would again imply that they were found, but were struck from records afterwards.

These legions are hinted to either be in stasis in an area only the Emperor can reach/know about or sent out on a crusade or something with no way to contact (or be contacted by) the Imperium. Primarchs have no hints on what happened to them if they remained with their legions or not.

Where were those hints dropped?

Mechanicum. Rogal Dorn and Malcador discuss how the Legions STILL EXIST

The First Heretic or 1000 Sons has Magnus discuss with Logar how the Primarchs were forbidden to talk of them because of their crimes

Fear to Tread. Sanguinius mentions that one legion suffered from rampant mutations

Deliverance Lost. Corax mentions that all of the Primarchs were found before the Palace was finished

and I believe Rogal Dorn and Malcador disucss it one more time in another story

It's also implied that the Space Wolves were tasked with bringing one of the legions down like a forerunner to Prospero.

Someone laments that the two lost legions are not available to fight against Horus suggesting that the marines from those legions were lost as well and not given to some other legion or purpose.

I don't remember where I read the above but they are in the HH series of books somewhere.

 King Pariah wrote:
I like this take on the XI Legion http://www.flashgitz.net/2012/09/humble-beginnings.html

[Mod Edit - No pictures with expletives in them please. Thanks!]

Simpler to just link said picture

It simple one legion were for democracy and one legion were communists, all stories of their demise is just imperial propaganda.

on another note if the emperor wasn't in the golden throne maybe all the heretic legions would have also been stricken from the record.

 Ninjacommando wrote:

 King Pariah wrote:
I like this take on the XI Legion http://www.flashgitz.net/2012/09/humble-beginnings.html

*snip*

Simpler to just link said picture

I didn't because I figured it'd be deleted due to language.

You're correct, of course.

Please do not post pictures that have expletives in them - thanks!

 McNinja wrote:
So those two primarchs and chapters that were struck from the Imperial record... I thought about it and I figured it could be possible that they weren't tainted or killed, just literally lost

Nope.

They've been quite clearly stated in the Black Library books as something happened to them. Nobody will say what, but they were found.

Then the editor from Black Library released a timeline of the "official" order the Primarchs were found that they were using internally. The listed order doesn't make any sense, and is repeatedly contradicted in their own material, but it does establish that all of the primarchs were indeed found.

And originally, the records were deleted intentionally.

So no, your theory never was, nor ever could have been, correct.



It is important to also note that the reason why the background changed was that the Black Library realized there was no way they could write the Horus Heresy books and not mention the missing legions unless the missing legions had already been expunged prior to the Heresy starting.

I believe that in the Corax book it is established that he was the last to be found, and the lost and forgotten had already been dealt with before the Emperor found him.

 Galdos wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

 Galdos wrote:

 Troike wrote:
IIRC, they said that when the last Primarch was found, all 20 had been found.

Also, the Horus Heresy series alludes that something bad happened with them and that the other Primarchs were forbidden to speak of them again. This would again imply that they were found, but were struck from records afterwards.

These legions are hinted to either be in stasis in an area only the Emperor can reach/know about or sent out on a crusade or something with no way to contact (or be contacted by) the Imperium. Primarchs have no hints on what happened to them if they remained with their legions or not.

Where were those hints dropped?

Mechanicum. Rogal Dorn and Malcador discuss how the Legions STILL EXIST

The First Heretic or 1000 Sons has Magnus discuss with Logar how the Primarchs were forbidden to talk of them because of their crimes

Fear to Tread. Sanguinius mentions that one legion suffered from rampant mutations

Deliverance Lost. Corax mentions that all of the Primarchs were found before the Palace was finished

and I believe Rogal Dorn and Malcador disucss it one more time in another story

Correct, I seem to remember someone (Rogal Dorn or Malcador) saying that they could bring back the missing legions, but the other dismissed the idea saying it wasn't going to happen.

@SickSix - it wasn't Corax that was found last, it was Alpharius, but you had the correct book

 SickSix wrote:
I believe that in the Corax book it is established that he was the last to be found, and the lost and forgotten had already been dealt with before the Emperor found him.

I had though that Alpharius was the last Primarch to be found, and Corax was the second or third last. The order is so confusing. Does anyone have a link with the order o discovery?

Hint: The number of their legion was the order they were found in.

Eihnlazer wrote:
Hint: The number of their legion was the order they were found in.

Well, no. Horus was found first, but his Legion isn't I. I can't be bothered to find the BL list, but it definitely didn't match up. Some of them did, but it was the minority.

As for Legions II and XI, keep in mind that the Word Bearers were up for consideration due to their tardiness and worship of the Emperor. He actually went around and asked the other Primarchs for their opinion on whether or not they should be purged (The First Heretic). And in another book Sanguinius admits that he never told the Emperor about the Blood Angels' gene flaw for fear of being purged as well. So it really doesn't take all that much to get purged.

The night lords and Cruze might have been on the way out, till Horus started making trouble.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eihnlazer wrote:
Hint: The number of their legion was the order they were found in.

The overall order of the rediscovery of each Primarch by the Emperor is as follows
Horus
Leman Russ
DELETED FROM IMPERIAL RECORDS
Ferrus Manus
Fulgrim
Vulkan
Rogal Dorn
Roboute Guilliman
Magnus the Red
Sanguinius
Lion El'Jonson
Perturabo
Mortarion
Lorgar
Jaghatai Khan
Konrad Curze
Angron
Corax
DELETED FROM IMPERIAL RECORDS
Alpharius Omegon


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eihnlazer wrote:
Hint: The number of their legion was the order they were found in.

only Dorn and Alpharius were discovered in the order of their legions creations.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

I stand corrected

And all of this is retro-active filling in of details after some bright spark in the late 80's/early 90's decided it would sound cool and mysterious if the background had some unexplainable gaps

There are tons of possibilities

- rejected the emperor when they were found
- defective gene seed
- an earlier civil war
- wiped or lost out during the crusade
- primarchs died/not found and their legion was dispersed amongst the others

In the real world I always understood they were supposed to allow everyone a way to make up home brew chapters, one chaos and one loyalist.

In universe I always figured that one of the legions deviated from the imperial creed (a la Thousand sons?), but saw the error of their ways before being destroyed and ended up on some never ending crusade of penance. The other ones went the whole hog and got sent to the wolves.

There is some mention in one of the earlier HH books, where one of the characters, on first hearing about Horus' betrayal, muses about whether the fate of the missing two legions should have been dismissed as aberrant, when it could have been seen as a warning.

With regards to expunging the records, again the same passage makes it clear that the reasons the legions were destroyed/exiled/whatever were very different from each other, so they were seen as abberrations; removing them from the records was a damage control excercise to prevent others following in their path. As others have said this became a bit of a moot point after the heresy, as the whole empire had fallen apart.

Elgingo wrote:
There are tons of possibilities

- rejected the emperor when they were found
- defective gene seed
- an earlier civil war
- wiped or lost out during the crusade
- primarchs died/not found and their legion was dispersed amongst the others

They were found. One of them was found 3rd after Horus and Russ, the other 19th right before Alpharius planned his daring assault on Horus.
The other primarch knew them, but for whatever reason they arent talking about what happened to them. Next time Lorgar isnt praying why dont you ask him.

I personally love the idea that one of them was Sigmar, and was never found, though that relied on ignoring a lot of recent fluff. Boo.

Mutation or turned to chaos before being located (or very early on) makes sense as to why they were stricken. Sure, the traitors during the HH weren't, but how do you strike 9 legions?

I tend to think 1 of them, or both, were pacifists and preached peaceful coexistence with xenos. Maybe they landed on planets with xenos population mixed with human. I recall a few instances of that during the GC. They joined the Emperor on the crusade, but refused to participate in genocides and were "expunged."

They weren't just not found, it was written somewhere, i can't remember where, but I remember one primarch asked another about it and he said "one we want to forget the other we can't forget." The original idea for the two legions was that they could be two of your own design, one traitor, one loyal. It's worth noting that many wanted to strike the thousand sons from the records while they were still loyal due to the high level of psykers and mutations that were happening in the legion.

 SisterJoey wrote:

 McNinja wrote:
So those two primarchs and chapters that were struck from the Imperial record... I thought about it and I figured it could be possible that they weren't tainted or killed, just literally lost. The Emperor could not find them, or did not have enough time during his whole "conquering the galaxy again" thing, and so the Primarchs went on to save their own planets/systems/sector and may found a new human empire in some yet-undiscovered section of the galaxy. What say you?

How awful did your actions have to be to be stricken from the records? None of the legions that turned to Chaos were stricken, just these two.

That exactly! Even the heretical legions aren't stricken from the records. Even Horus, so something must have happened that deemed it necessary for them to be totally stricken from the records.

They are mentioned in several heresy novels so by that time they had been found as it is mentioned that they fought in the great crusade.

I always chalked it up to embarrassingly bad math. You know how the Imperium is. Either there was a massive clerical error and only 18 Primarchs were created, or there weren't enough Space Marines to go around, so the two were killed to prevent the Emperor further embarrassment.

In all seriousness though, I've always been interested in this. One aspect of the fiction that I've always liked are the various different perspectives and mysteries that surround almost everything. Whether the legions were betrayed, purged for betrayal, literally lost following their founding, or simply expunged for something incredibly mundane (again, you know how the Imperium is), the interest is that they were there and now are shrouded in mystery and secrecy. With 10 000 years since the Heresy (and their records destroyed prior), who knows how much of what is said about them is truth or myth.