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So those two primarchs and chapters that were struck from the Imperial record... I thought about it and I figured it could be possible that they weren't tainted or killed, just literally lost. The Emperor could not find them, or did not have enough time during his whole "conquering the galaxy again" thing, and so the Primarchs went on to save their own planets/systems/sector and may found a new human empire in some yet-undiscovered section of the galaxy. What say you?

Why would their record be eradicated then?

IIRC, they said that when the last Primarch was found, all 20 had been found.

Also, the Horus Heresy series alludes that something bad happened with them and that the other Primarchs were forbidden to speak of them again. This would again imply that they were found, but were struck from records afterwards.

When the Primarch speak of the "Lost" legions, they talk about how they miss them, and at one point Fulgrum(?) says he doesn't want to end up like the 2nd or 11th legions. Also, the legions were numbered after their founding's-how would there be an 19th or 20th legion if two were never found?

 Troike wrote:
IIRC, they said that when the last Primarch was found, all 20 had been found.

Also, the Horus Heresy series alludes that something bad happened with them and that the other Primarchs were forbidden to speak of them again. This would again imply that they were found, but were struck from records afterwards.

Correct

All 20 Primarchs were found and all 20 assisted in the Great Crusade with their respective legions.

Something occured that caused the Emperor to discontinue their legions (hinted at 1 legion suffered major flaws similar to the Blood Angels and the other disobeyed the Emperor like Thousand Sons/Word Bearers)

These legions are hinted to either be in stasis in an area only the Emperor can reach/know about or sent out on a crusade or something with no way to contact (or be contacted by) the Imperium. Primarchs have no hints on what happened to them if they remained with their legions or not.

The Demise of II and XI

 Mustela wrote:
The Demise of II and XI

I KNEW IT. Gumdrop smiles. Called it.

Alternatively, they could have turned to the worship of the chaos god Necoho, which would explain their uncertain existence.

 Mustela wrote:
Necoho

who else had to Lexicanum that?

You should have gone to the latest HH weekender they told us the answer in one of the seminars.

I remember reading a lengthy argument on a website (I forgot and will try find for you) that the chapters were there in the Horus Heresy, but after the Emperor got killed and Guillaman kind of took over and did some re-arranging and the 2nd and 11th chapters didn't like it so they took off but they promised Guilliman they would never return. Guillaman didn't stop the two legions because he didn't want to start another civil war and he didn't want people questioning about the two legions so he erased all information recorded about those chapters.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
http://www.40kforums.com/vb/showthread.php/1761-Theory-2nd-and-11th-the-Missing-Legions

The website for the stuff above.

 Razak wrote:
I remember reading a lengthy argument on a website (I forgot and will try find for you) that the chapters were there in the Horus Heresy, but after the Emperor got killed and Guillaman kind of took over and did some re-arranging and the 2nd and 11th chapters didn't like it so they took off but they promised Guilliman they would never return. Guillaman didn't stop the two legions because he didn't want to start another civil war and he didn't want people questioning about the two legions so he erased all information recorded about those chapters.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
http://www.40kforums.com/vb/showthread.php/1761-Theory-2nd-and-11th-the-Missing-Legions

The website for the stuff above.

Do they think that's official or is that a fan based argument because I've never heard that from any official fluff.

As has been stated the lost legions where found and the primarchs swore oaths never to speak of them. It is even hinted that the Space Wolves where responsible for destroying one of the legions at the Emperors command which is why they where known as his executioners.

The 11th legion was the emperor's pointy sticks.

I often wondered, the emperor must have thought the knowledge of these legions was dangerous somehow. So...what if he sent a Primarch out on a mission so far that even he could not sense them anymore, or that he needed the help of the emperor and just wasn't powerful enough to do so?

I like this take on the XI Legion http://www.flashgitz.net/2012/09/humble-beginnings.html

DILL3NGER wrote:
You should have gone to the latest HH weekender they told us the answer in one of the seminars.

Why do I think you're pulling our legs...

In "The Last Heretic" the Word Bearers speculate that the Ultramarines massive increase in numbers was suspiciously timed to just after the 'purging' of the two missing legions.

It could just be inter-Chapter office gossip but it was an interesting thought that they might live on in the XIII legion.

Also Lorgar was said to be particularly affected by the loss of his brothers, hinting that they may have been closer to Lorgar and Magnus personality wise.Thinkers rather than fighters.

All speculation of course!

 Razak wrote:
I remember reading a lengthy argument on a website (I forgot and will try find for you) that the chapters were there in the Horus Heresy, but after the Emperor got killed and Guillaman kind of took over and did some re-arranging and the 2nd and 11th chapters didn't like it so they took off but they promised Guilliman they would never return. Guillaman didn't stop the two legions because he didn't want to start another civil war and he didn't want people questioning about the two legions so he erased all information recorded about those chapters.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
http://www.40kforums.com/vb/showthread.php/1761-Theory-2nd-and-11th-the-Missing-Legions

The website for the stuff above.

In the Horus Heesy series it is established beyond doubt that the two missing legions are gone/purged/whatever before the Emperor is killed.

See my sig...

Just noticed who I posted beneath... lol

What does seem to be the case is that most of the primarchs are in the Eye. All the surviving chaos ones are and it seems Russ, Corvus, Vulkan and probably Khan are too. So all primarchs not dead or in stasis are in warp tainted space. Maybe one of the missing two is as well.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
About the fate of the missing two, when Manus is killed by Fulgrim it is seen as something almost unnatural - a primarch being killed. I know this sort of gets contradicted by Horus almost dying after being stabbed by the athame, but it suggests that the other two may not have been killed when their legions were destroyed.

 Muddypaw wrote:
In "The Last Heretic" the Word Bearers speculate that the Ultramarines massive increase in numbers was suspiciously timed to just after the 'purging' of the two missing legions.

It could just be inter-Chapter office gossip but it was an interesting thought that they might live on in the XIII legion.



All speculation of course!

CONFIRMED to be gossip and is not actually true.

 Muddypaw wrote:
In "The Last Heretic" the Word Bearers speculate that the Ultramarines massive increase in numbers was suspiciously timed to just after the 'purging' of the two missing legions.

It could just be inter-Chapter office gossip but it was an interesting thought that they might live on in the XIII legion.

Also Lorgar was said to be particularly affected by the loss of his brothers, hinting that they may have been closer to Lorgar and Magnus personality wise.Thinkers rather than fighters.

All speculation of course!

They were probably pacifists.

The God Emperor expected Space Marines to kill mindlessly for him, without any rewards or even recognition. He would kidnap them, they would be remade in his visage, and then they would die in his name, all without him ever learning their's.

The missing Primarchs probably made the mistake of being opposed to slavery and genocide. They were a greater threat to the God Emperor's reign than any Ork Empire or Chaotic Insurrection. If their ideas spread, it was over for the Imperium. The God Emperor didn't hesitate; it can be presumed that the Space Wolves and Ultramarines were involved, considering hints about their Legions's strengths and roles. Others were possibly involved as well. The God Emperor trusted Horus more than any other soul, at the very least Horus would be well informed about the event, and may have had a part in planning it. Magnus, Lorgar, Vulcan, and other Primarchs who would be more receptive to the missing Primarchs's ideas were probably kept out of the loop, at least until the situation could be resolved and the God Emperor's reign consolidated.

 King Pariah wrote:
I like this take on the XI Legion http://www.flashgitz.net/2012/09/humble-beginnings.html

I love these guys and was about to mention them when I saw your post. Its a great story and amazingly funny.

Maybe Legion of the Damned is somehow connected to these two lost legions?
And how about Praetorians, where they are recruited from?

I thought the Heresy books implied at least one legion was dissolved due to excessive mutation.

We know the Thousand Sons almost shared this fate, and that the Death Company was mercy killed by Sanguinius prior to the heresy to prevent his legion from sharing the same fate.

timestreamer wrote:
Maybe Legion of the Damned is somehow connected to these two lost legions?
And how about Praetorians, where they are recruited from?

The Legion of the Damned are not connected. For Praetorians, do you perhaps mean the Custodians?

Both dead.

JWhex wrote:

timestreamer wrote:
Maybe Legion of the Damned is somehow connected to these two lost legions?
And how about Praetorians, where they are recruited from?

The Legion of the Damned are not connected. For Praetorians, do you perhaps mean the Custodians?

No because we know where the Custodians came from

Just popped in my mind, that one of these two lost chapters, might be linked to "Adeptus Mechanicus", "Librarians or Chaplains"?
And if canon says that full half of legions were corrupted, isn't this indication that one legion was on side of the Emperor and other with Horus? Maybe they both are gone because they were completely destroyed by Emperor's order to prevent the taint of chaos spreading more.....

 McNinja wrote:
So those two primarchs and chapters that were struck from the Imperial record... I thought about it and I figured it could be possible that they weren't tainted or killed, just literally lost. The Emperor could not find them, or did not have enough time during his whole "conquering the galaxy again" thing, and so the Primarchs went on to save their own planets/systems/sector and may found a new human empire in some yet-undiscovered section of the galaxy. What say you?

How awful did your actions have to be to be stricken from the records? None of the legions that turned to Chaos were stricken, just these two.